and in the international world, the icao is.has done a lot of testing on satellite transmissions, on the sat-com system, how hay communicate through satellites. there's no reason it shouldn't be implemented at this point. as jeff pointed out real well, if this stuff is turned off, if the fedex box tracking system was turned off, you couldn't track that package. and this is what happened here. it was turned off. so it was either turned off or failed by some catastrophic failure. so we have to realize, we do have this now. >> jim, we just saw brian's piece. he report that these systems would cost about $100,000 a plane. they estimate that they may spend about a quarter of a billion dollars finding this plane. not to mention the anguish of the families. so wouldn't it be worth the cost? >> after the fact we can all become very, very expert money managers. but during the time when airlines are struggling to try to keep their bottom line intact and struggling to try to compete one with the other and all the kind of things that they h

that icao should look at the benefits of realtime plane tracking.frankly, the fact that -- don, the fact they had written a report, hadn't told anyone about it, weren't about to release it. to my eyes, it was a very good example of the lack of transparency that people on this panel have been talking about. so quite simply to the prime minister, are you going to release the report? how do you justify the allegations of lack of transparency? >> the country has had a real kicking over the perspective and perception of the way it handled the early days. i think the phrase used in many cases is malaysia bungled it. >> i have to be quite frank with you. first of all, start from the premise that it was unprecedented. we all agree it was unprecedented. it was the most technically challenging, most complex issue that malaysia or any country for that matter and i believe even an advanced country would have great difficulty handling such an issue. some of the things we did well. we were very focused on searching for the plane. we didn't get our communications

tell people what icao rules are. >> yeah.he -- it's an annex, annex 13 of nato. and so it's, say, set of rules that the countries, participating countries, have worked together to try to say, hey, we need to have some kind of standard on an international basis. it talks about accidents, when they should be there, who should control the findings, who should control the investigation, and at this point annex 13 talks about the investigation authority which goes to malaysia because they're not only the country of ridge center for the aircraft, they're the country of operation for the airline and the owners of the airline as well. so almost everything points back to them when the aircraft crashes in international waters. but the annex rules are only enforceable by those countries that control them. at this point it's up to the countries duane warth is the ambassador to the icao to the united states and i haven't talked with duane yet but i intend to soon about why it is that they haven't pushed that icao rule of having a 30-day p

and talked to the people in the u.k., including icao.s the ones they haven't talked to is transport canada. but those are the major ones who have investigations on accident reconstruction, analyzing black box data. so they all seem to be involved. so there is coordination. >> okay, arthur, i want to present this question to you. it says why doesn't the press press authorities to get access to secret information. how do they play a role in access for the families? >> well, i think the press is doing an absolutely spectacular job, digging, trying to ferret out all the information. but the press has very limited ability to get the malaysian authorities to release information. if this were in the united states, for example, the ntsb would have already released the preliminary statement. the press would be involved. we would have basic factual information about this airplane, generally being if it was discoverable before the crash you can get it after the crash. but our hands are kind of tied given that we're dealing with malaysia. and the co

we have a good framework with icao annex 13. is the room for improvement?there's always room for improvement, and that's what people will work on in the coming years, i am certain, as the genoa summit and the safety weeks in icao to figure out what can be done better. water recoveries are notoriously difficult, and very expensive and time-consuming. so we continue to work on data recorder technology and better information coming from aircra aircraft. >> here in america and we're hearing a lot these days about a supposedly hot shortage stemming from the faa rules on pilot experience and fatigue. do you think these new safety rules are causing problems? and if so, are the problems with the gain in safety? >> -- worth the gain. i'll leave the economics of to others, but there was a very good reason why rules were passed, and why regulations have changed. we had accidents. we learned lessons from them. we made recommendations, many of those recommendations have been implemented. that is a good thing. that raises the level of safety for all of us. if there are i

the international civil aviation organization, icao, annex 13 and their general responsibilities fortain obligations on the malaysian aviation authorities. also icao -- someone has to get ahold of malaysian officials and let them know that the job they are doing and the information they are dispatching to these people is inadequate. these people have been suffering long enough. they are entitled to answers. things as simple as the air traffic control transcript, the tapes, some maintenance records on the plane, the general rule being if there was information that was disposable before the crash it is fair game after the crash. it is really a whole host of things these people are entitled to. >> mary, i want you to clear this up for you. we know there were few americans on board flight 370 but could malaysian airlines be sued in an american court since they operate in the u.s.? >> actually yes. there are several parameters you have to satisfy. if you are an american and purchase ed a ticket in the united states, traveling from the united states. there are many ways the airline can be

the safety recommendation that the malaysians are asking, they say it is recommended that icao examine the safety benefits of introducing a standard for realtime tracking of commercial air transport aircraft. now, that is pretty much stating the obvious bearing in mind that for several weeks now possibly months and more will be spent to find a plane that was not being tracked in realtime. and anderson, the only issue is why the preliminary report which tends to be non-controversial, a basic statement of facts, why that has not been released by the malaysian authorities. i will be asking that today. in every case that i can remember so far the report is always pretty much released when it is sent to icao. >> david souci, in these type of preliminary reports with the questions that the families want answered, would that be typically cleared up. they have some very good questions, questions which frankly i'm surprised have not already been answered for the families. >> yeah, they're easily answered questions, i don't know why they haven't been answered. there is no explanation for that. b

icao. will observe and comply with the standards and recommended practices of icao. look into the safety of civil international aviation. the main purpose of the international investigation team is to evaluate, investigate and determine the actual cause of the accident so similar accidents will be avoided in the future. i would also like to note that the investigation will not be criminal aspects under the purview of the royal commission. this investigation will be carried out with the civil aviation act of 1966. it's required each party investigate the accident independently with the full power of the countries. the investigation will be -- which was established in november 2011. the investigation here will include three groups. operational rules. we are also discussing -- from other asean countries. we are in the process of identifying the members. and their accredited representatives. and will be recruiting the members for the team according to the international -- we will announce the name of the members next week. indeed, it is imperative for the government to h

twice this evening you mentioned acao, are you talking about icao? >> icao, yes.clarifying that. >> the other question is, if you notice the australian press conferences this morning by investigators, everybody seems to be convinced that the aircraft is lost and no survivors. for the next processes to start, you know, because all the families have certain banking issues and insurance issues, at what stage will malaysia come out and say, okay, we accept that the aircraft is lost and there could be no survivors? >> i'm aware of all those issues that have been mentioned in our discussions with the families have indicated many requests, some conflicting. some do not want to speak about claims, insurance or otherwise or bank accounts that have been frozen, but there are others who want to have more details about what happens in the event that we do have some signals from the black box. it is a very fine line that we are walking. and so far, we have done that walk through that very fine line. it really depends very much on how we move forward on deciding on the timeline

>> yes, it goes to the core, the icao organization has set up something that would be an extraordinaryeeting to be held next month in may, in montreal, where they will look at lessons to be learned. the airline forum, they will discuss it at their annual meeting in june. let nobody be in any doubt this is going to change the way planes fly, the way data is handled and the way aircraft is tracked. >> just as really every crash, every horrific incident like this has had an impact on the industry? >> this will be in a much greater league. >> really? >> yes, because quite often you change some minor technical ity on the aircraft. some procedure, some form of management within the cockpit. this will go industry-wide. it will probably go across all forms of metal with different times of aircraft and it will be fundamental. the issue will be how long the nations can agree on a course of action. icao is slow, tedious, and it can be a lot of bureaucracy. >> mary, do you agree it will have an impact historically? >> well, i think what is probably going to happen is nations will do it one by one.

confirmed, the safety recommendation that the malaysians are asking, it says it's recommended that icao examine the safety benefits of introducing a standard for real-time tracking the commercial air transport aircraft. now that's pretty much stating the obvious. bearing in mind that several weeks now, possibly months, will be spent trying to find a plane that wasn't tracked in real time. the only issue really is why the preliminary report, which tends to be noncontroversial, a basic statement of facts that are already known. why that hasn't been released by the malaysian authorities. i will be asking that. in every case that i can remember so far, the report is always pretty much released when it's sent to icao. >> david, you're familiar with what's typically in these kind of preliminary reports. would the questions that the families want answered typically be cleared up by the information in that report? because as richard quest has reported the last couple of days, they have very good questions. questions which, frankly, i'm surprised have not already been answered for the families.

for icao.formation as it passes back and forth i feel like we're kind of jumping a link here by having them coordinate directly to our military and it misses a level of coordination, particularly as we move forward with coming up with laws and regulations. the cards are being dealt and we don't have a seat at the table. >> and that's the political pol persuasion here. mare mary, what other technology could be introduced here. we have heard about the remus 6000. what could compliment the bluefin or even perhaps replace it? >> well, there are many different kinds of underwater autonomous vehicles. the remus is one. some are manned, some are unmanned. each one is going to require a ship to accompany it. you're going to have a lot of on-water assets and ship assets. but also the u.s. could be very functional because the prime minister in his interview with richard quest mentioned that they still consider it both criminal and civil. we could help them on that front as well with those assets and i st

i think that when we look at the icao, they seem to be paralyzed, they've done nothing for five yearsmembers of the industry seem to be saying, well, yes, it needs to be done but no one's offering a timetable for doing it or a sensible program for doing it. we're on the fringe of really important technical change in the way aircraft navigate in the future. we'll move from radar based system, because radars don't reach into the oceans to a satellite based system where we have total satellite coverage of the globe. >> so let me get peter goals to weigh in on that. a lot of the airlines, developing all of the equipment they need to get wi-fi for passengers, tv for passengers but it's sort of -- technology, there's a company in toront that builds black boxes with live streaming but they don't use it. it doesn't make any sense to me. >> the carriers are not going to put it in unless forced and they are both right. they cannot act -- >> international civil aviation organization. >> they cannot act. to top it off we don't have an official representative there. that post is gone unfilled sinc

even under the icao standards, it belonged to them, probably in a sense of national pride and it's theire and it's a state, you know, an off shoot of the state from their airline. and, of course, you know, if you lose control of your investigation, you can lose control of the findings. it being a state airline and they not knowing how it was going to come out, there are other situations in the past where countries have let two of their investigation and in one case they gave it to the ntsb and did not like the findings. >> sometimes when you don't know, you don't know what you don't know, right? >> certainly. i think there's a history of pride here as well, don. i was one of the first responders to the indian ocean sue tsunami in 2004. they didn't invite the west in for many days until they realized the size of the situation. so i think initially pride was getting in the way. and once they realized the magnitude of the situation, you know, someone advised them that it would be good then to draw in the very credible authorities like the ntsb. >> the pride may cost us in finding these blac

and, as i promised, next week, we will release the preliminary report that we sent to icao. but the most important information that they want and, sadly, the one that we cannot provide, is where is the plane. >> cnn's sooni ma uda spoke with a woman whose husband was on board flight 370 about how she's dealing with her grief, at the same time as being eight months pregnant. >> reporter: praaris, frankfurt london. they have traveled the world together. both working as flight attendants for malaysia airlines. on the night of march 7th, he missed his bus to work, so otaman dropped him off to the airport. his last words, "i love you." >> i keep on hearing that he loved me. it's normal conversation, normal good-bye. yeah. >> reporter: their 4-year-old daughter still wondered where her father is. >> she's been asking about her papa every night, eithvery morn. >> reporter: what do you tell her? >> lately, i have been trying to tell papa might not come back. >> reporter: now, eight months pregnant, othaman says she can barely keep herself together. >> if i receive a call on my phone

laws and other countries have the same, it's actually an icao guideline.ave enough to get to your destination, plus your emergency destination, if you can't get into beijing, you have an emergency destination that you've chose on and you have to have enough gas to get there. if you think you're going to hit head wins or you're have got some concerns, you can call for more fuel. and we have learned that these pilots did not call for more fuel. you can put more on if you decide you want it. >> i would have assumed, this shows i'm not an aviation expert or even have my own pilot's license, because you would think you would just simply fill up the so it's one of these things in this case they seem to know. jeff, let me ask you this here. one of the things that people have been talking about all along is the pinger locators, it would be a miracle to detect anything right now. when you heard the news breaking overnight that they detected these pings, did it make you think that they have more information that they're not telling us? because that's what i thought.

committees, pretty much like jim did with the ntsb, there are committees already, they consulted with icao, who is in malaysia right now setting up their airport terminal. i think they're heading that way and it is a good suggestion by jim. >> jim, i also understand you're understand in the lithium battery idea, why? >> well, it is just significant. obviously, we've seen very recently some accidents occurred in the cargo industry, as a result of the carriage of lithium batteries. there was a whole lot of attention last year on the new boeing aircraft and the subject of lithium batteries. so having that carriage aboard the aircraft is just one of the factual areas that obviously their investigators are going to have to rule out as they go through and try to determine what occurred. none of this, of course, can happen until the wreckage is found. and we're able, hopefully, to get whatever information is available off the black boxes. >> and you seem to want to set a very reasonable expectation for how long this could take. if you were advising, if you were talking to these families would you

. >> next week we will release the preliminary report that we sent to icao, but the most important informationt they want, and sadly, the one that we cannot provide, is where is the plane. >> and this morning those questions of where is the plane, where is any debris from the plane remain unanswered. meantime, an unmanned sub is now on its 13th mission scanning the ocean floor. it is 95% done, going over the search zone. no debris has been found at all. erin mclaughlin is live in perth for us this morning. erin, you know, 90% done yesterday, 95% done today, but still, there's a real discrepancy on when they are going to say, all right, this bluefin-21 is complete in searching that entire search zone, that it could be days or it could be weeks. >> reporter: that's right, poppy, but malaysian and australian authorities already discussing next steps, what to do next, if they basically in the end rule out this narrowed area, which is essentially their best guess as to where the black box may be. now, i understand the malaysians have proposed a longer-term search agreement that would potentially br

. >> whether it is an icao practice, whether it is a challenge which involves diplomacy, because we must understand that it involves 14 nations, and when it comes to the search-and-rescue, in the beginning it involves 26 nations. so, we have diplomatic challenges, we've got legal challenges, we've got next of kin, and that is why we have established these committees. >> reporter: so, we've just heard from the transport minist minister's twitter account, that they say that the cabinet of the government here has just ratified the decision to form an international investigation committee here, so we're at 39 days after flight 370 disappeared. the government here now taking an official step to form what we've been told will happen all along, this international investigation committee. we don't know the composition of it yet, but again, this another step along that very slow process to figure out precisely what happened here. christine? >> a very slow process, no question. nic robertson. thank you, nic. >>> now to ukraine, a country on the brink of civil war. pro-russian militants this mornin

. >> whether it is an icao practice, whether it is a challenge which involves diplomacy, because you must understand that it involves 14 nations. and when it comes to the search and rescue, at the beginning, it involves 26 nations. so, we have diplomatic challenges, we've got legal challenges, we've got next of kin, and that is why we have established these committees. >> reporter: and that's what they're working through right now, but he did go on to say that all the data from the black box, if and when it would be recovered, he said there will be full truth from this and a full accounting of it. victor? >> all right, nic robertson for us in kuala lumpur. nic, thank you. >>> and now to ukraine, a country on the brink of civil war. pro-russian militants this morning continue to hold government buildings in the eastern part of ukraine, despite calls for them to give up their arms and leave. they are not budging. at least they don't appear to be budging. president obama and vladimir putin spoke last night, trading barbs over who is behind the escalating violence, as ukraine's acting pr

that speaks directly to this preliminary report that was just submied to icao by malaysian officials.e it public which is allowed but unusual. what h are the reasons to keep that confidential? >> they say it was to protect the investigation but that's really disingenuous because there have been thousands of air investigations by very accomplished nation, britain, france, australia, the united states. they follow the protocol with making the preliminary investigation public. those countries have public sunshine hearings where we set forth the facts. a docket on the ntsb hearing is thousands of pages long where they make public all the information. at the ntsb hearing you can go forward and talk to the ntsb board and investigators and tell them, hey, i would like to know this or i like to have this question asked. they may not ask them but you have access. i think the public would be helpful, as cnn found out with the crowd sourcing project, the calls came flooding in for every pixel -- for every picture they put up on that crowd sourcing project. i think 30 pairs of eyes looked at it.

and if they do -- if they're going to follow the icao standards and do it like the ntsb does it thennd they do have a choice. they can open what's called a public docket and start posting information publicly that they have obtained during the course of the investigation. you know, the ntsb posts a lot of information publicly. usually they do it in connection with the first public hearing but they could start posting and, remember, there are many other component manufacturers on the plane, for example, the communication system. oh, and by the way, the shipper of the batteries, if it was a battery fire. so there are a lot of potential defendants in a lawsuit but you really need evidence. and so that's why the investigation and other reason the investigation is still vitally crucial. >> arthur, boeing may be at the list of u.s. manufacturers. it could be the folks who are making the batteries or anything else that would be part of this plane. >> sure. >> would that be public record? is that fairly easy for any lawyers to try to, you know, collect information on so they can complete tho

and so, when you don't comply with icao requirements, unfortunately it doesn't have a lot of teeth, ite. and other countries that are signatories to the conventions are not likely to take punitive actions against malaysia. so they will get away. i mean, there's not really any police on the beat to enforce the production of these reports, so they're probably going to -- you know, it's not going to be an immediate effect from that, other than to cast additional doubt on the fact that they can carry out an international icao standard investigation, and they should be relying more and more on the australians, is what should happen. >> and then, alan, while there's this lack of confidence in the malaysian authorities, or at least the information that's being communicated between these agencies, do you have confidence in the confidence being expressed by the australian prime minister? >> well, obviously, he's a politician, but i'm sure he's being briefed by smart people in australia. i've gone down three times to work -- training in the air safety investigators. they're very competent. they'

as i promised, next week we will release the preliminary report that we sent to icao. but the most important information that they want and sadly the one that we cannot provide is where is the plane. >> reporter: the families, of course, continue to be the key area for ml lash yeah, and the prime minister chooses his words extremely carefully. whether it's refusing to say the plane is lost, whether it's saying that malaysia will continue to search up to the limits of affordability or indeed as he did at the beginning of the search process, when he said that the plane had been turned by somebody deliberately, what did he mean by that? >> you've given two statements, one on the 14th or 15th, one on the 24th. they are major statements of the direction of the plane. >> sure. >> when you describe it as deliberate action by somebody on the plane, that word deliberate is very carefully chosen. it doesn't tell us whether it's deliberate nefarious or deliberate because of mechanical issues. you didn't want to say which. >> precisely. it was very, very carefully chosen. of cours

and as i promised, nek week, we will release the preliminary report that we sent to icao. most important information that they want, and sadly the one that we cannot provide, is where is the plane. >> i think there's a certain truth to what he's saying, in that they want the answers to what's happening. the government simply doesn't have them. and, therefore, the families in their search, in their own searching are coming up with theories, coming up with requests which they believe will show an answer but the government does say they are providing information, in some cases, kate, the families are not listening. >> i also found it interesting, richard, in your interview, the prime minister, you asked him very directly, but the prime minister, he hesitated. he's not ready to say that the plane and the passengers are lost. and you asked him about that kind of again and again. because i -- the surprised me because he essentially, i felt like, said that in that first major announcement when he declared that flight 370 ended in the southern indian ocean. >> right. we had a sayi