the one that refers to f-ing punks. let's listen to this again. >> which way is he running? >> down toward the other entrance to the neighborhood. >> which entrance is that that he's heading toward? >> the back entrance. >> are you following him? >> yeah. >> okay, we don't need you to do that. >> to me, this seems like the weakest part of your case, in the sense that someone who against professional advice, he goes after somebody who he believes is f-ing punks, they're always getting away with it. in his head, he's looking at trayvon martin and thinking bad things about him, isn't he? >> a couple things, one, the state has now finished their case, there's no evidence that they presented that my client continued to follow trayvon martin after he was advised not to. they're done with their case, not one shred of evidence to support that, let's say that the statements that he used, the expletives suggested that he was somewhat frustrated. we know he was frustrated because his neighborhood was being asailed by people who were burglarizing homes and causing home invasions. the qu

. >> mark, we heard george zimmerman in his own words using phrases like a-holes, "f"-ing punks and so on. the one thing we haven't heard is any racial words. if you study his background, there doesn't seem to be any evidence that he's been a serial racial profiler in that sense. you know, is it unfair to him? >> i don't think he is. there's no evidence that he's a serial racial profiler. george zimmerman seems to be somebody who self-deputizes, makes himself a law enforcement agent. when he saw a young, african-american male armed with nothing but skittles and a hoody, he saw that as dangerous. that is in and of itself a racial profile, which turned into a killing. that's the problem. no, he shouldn't be let off the hook. whether it's legally guilty or not, we don't know yet. >> jayne weintraub, the question for you, if trayvon martin had been white, would george zimmerman have gone through all this trouble to follow him, report him and generally treat him like a criminal suspect? >> i think that he would have, piers. the reason i say that is based on who george zimmerman is. he's the

when you call somebody these [bleep] is going to get with this these f-ing punks.the hour. we're on "the stephanie miller show." >> wow, i don't believe it. this is too good to be real. of course this is real. >> it's "the stephanie miller show." the characters that are actually living these stories. (vo) from the underworld to the world of privilege. >> everyone in michael jackson's life was out to use him. (vo) no one brings you more documentaries that are real, gripping, current. >> occupy! >> we will have class warfare. (vo) true stories, current perspective. documentaries. on current tv. this show is about being up to date, staying in touch with everything that is going on politically and putting my own nuance on it. in reality it's not like they actually care. this is purely about political grandstanding. [ ♪ music ♪ ] [ ♪ music ♪ ] >> stephanie miller. [ ♪ music ♪ ] >> i'm not sure i'm ready. >> stephanie: well, 22 minutes after the hour. 1-800-steph-12. >> i'm just looking for someone who is bootylicious enough, not too much. >> stephanie: yeah right. let's

>> f-ing punks always get away with this. >> right.t it away with it this time. >> stephanie: do you think he got fonder of trayvon after he called him a f-ing [ censor bleep ]. >> the prosecution would be good to bring this up. >> stephanie: right. right. >> and maybe the jury will talk about it in the jury room. the is assistant yesterday. >> a teenager is dead. he is dead through no fault of his own. he is dead because another man made assumptions. >> stephanie: yeah they called george zimmerman, we have said wanna be cop. provoked him into a fight that resulted in a shooting death. they have caught him lying how many times about this story. the attorney again. >> why does this defendant get out of the car if he thinks that trayvon martin is threat to him? why? because he has a gun. he is going to take care of him. he is a wanna be cop. >> stephanie: thank you. a form lapd cop called in and he said i'm a cop, and i would have stayed in the car and wait for backup. just like deputy dog there was told to do and he didn't. defense lawy

in meeting the requirement and that's why they spent so much time as you know on the f-ing punks andd so forth. so that's why we didn't hear from the prosecute ares, look, we think we've established the elements of second degree murder, here it is. but if, ladies and gentlemen, you don't find those elements have been met shall here's the standard for man slaughter. and of course, we've met this burden, something like that. you're the prosecutor. talk to me on that issue. >> well, you know, i don't really take umbrage with them not really explaining it that much. you know, i think they went out of their way. they used, you know, the f-ing punks and the things they said, and they tried to, you know, raise the level of intensity in the courtroom, tried to hake it more racial, more provocative. but the only difference between the two charges is the dark heart, the hatred and all that. that's such a minor part of it. other than that, they pretty much read verbatim. and if you don't think you can get the top one -- that's why it's there. they're going to keep pushing. they're going to keep

without george zimmerman looking at trayvon martin and thinking a-hole, f-ing punk and so on and the police telling him not to follow him, he's a busy body neighborhood watch, he's got his gun, he wanted to be a cop. he didn't quite make it. this is a moment and he's had quite of few of them. he didn't need to do any of that stuff but in his head he's thinking a-hole punk. i keep come pg back to that. racial profiling or just profiling this is a bad person, he's still coming at him with malicious intent, isn't he? >> i don't know but that's going to be the question. >> is that a key question? >> that's a key question and that's what the lawyers are going to be arguing in their closing argument and that's what the jury will sit on ex and decide. they will decide two things, they will decide whether as a matter of law there was malice and whether or not they believe zimmerman's testimony that it was self-defense. >> do you believe him? >> i haven't heard him testify directly -- >> from what you've seen in the statements and interviews? >> yes. >> we're in los angeles. a lot of people f

he thought a-hole, f-ing punk, they are always getting away with it. >> he was profiling a thug, on his commander complex. to me these are two elements if you look at it dispassionately. that should never have crossed each other's paths and that's where this begins. what happened in the two key minutes in this incident is something that the jury will have to decide based on evidence put before them, not everyone that wants to surmise or summarize what happened but what i don't want to see out of this in a country where we have a problem of murders with black men or anyone by criminals or in any case like the trevor deal case where we have the due process being polluted by a circus brought in by outside interests, let the community, let the local law enforcement, let the process play out. >> i agree with that. charles, one of the problems is the that florida law is the florida law, the law of the state and we can huff and puff how unfair it is but the reality is this jury will be directed to follow letter of that state law. >> right. >> that means nothing to do with george zimmerman gett

and zimmerman calls him an a-hole, an f-ing punk. and months later, after time to reflect, he says the killing was god's plan. that's such a discord nant note to the hear from him. an attorney sitting next to him, time to prepare for the interview and shows no compassion for trayvon martin or his family. the jury could put all that together and say this guy did it whip a depraved mind if they don't buy the self-defense theory offered by the defense. >> lisa bloom. thank you. be right back. please, stay with us, all of you. coming right back with the trial of george zimmerman which is about to go from -- well, from prosecution to defense. anyway, we'll be right back. this is "hardball" from the essence festival in new orleans. the place for politics tonight. the usual, bob? not today. [ male announcer ] bob has afib: atrial fibrillation not caused by a heart valve problem, a condition that puts him at greater risk for a stroke. [ gps ] turn left. i don't think so. [ male announcer ] for years, bob took warfarin, and made a monthly tri

that he had malice in his heart and wanted to, i guess it's the f-ing punks, these ah's always get away which is an important aspect of proving second-degree murder. >> absolutely. you have to go for the depraved mind. and all we have is a bunch of curse words on a 911 tape. so obviously the defense is going the say that that just does not rise that is not proof that should put this man in jail. and, you know, we have again the self-defense aspect. i think one of the reasons the defense stayed away from the lesser included offense in arguing that because if you find it for second-degree murder, you have to find it for the lesser included. >> we're going to go through the elements of second defense. lisa bloom, paul henderson, and karen de soto. they've been instructed on the law and now they have the case. let's get into what may sway them as they get into the fate of george zimmerman and later the role that race may play in the jury's decision. this is "hardball," the place for politics. which is deposited in your fidelity account. is that it? actually... there's no annual fee and no l

ing punks was never a racial thing didn't it towards who were told to talk about the black the experience in america which you or i have experienced why is he giving the speech so essentially they're going to no federal charges so obama has to keep street credibility with a group that african-americans to put him in office it's very important and he doesn't want to talk down to african-americans but the truth is he's not saying the important things that he needs to say about why african-americans are committing a preponderance of the crime why chicago is completely out of control why blacks your ninety three percent chance if you're black to get shot by another black not by a white or a latino it's a failing school system it's a destruction of the family but if you want to you know in fairness to him he can't really talk about that because then he's seen as talking down to black people so he has to he has to walk a fine line when he talks about his own experience of being profiled can you understand google the black you can understand what i mean obama is a guy who in the one nine hundred

ing punks was never a racial thing didn't it towards who were told to talk about the black experience in america which you or i have experienced why is he giving the speech so essentially they're going to no federal charges so obama has to keep street credibility with a group that african-americans to put him in office it's very important and he doesn't want to talk down to african-americans but the truth is he's not saying the important things that he needs to say about why african-americans are committing a preponderance of the crime why chicago is completely out of control why blacks your ninety three percent chance if you're black to get shot by another black not by a white or a latino it's a failing school system it's a destruction of the family but i want you know in fairness to him he can't really talk about that because then he's seen as talking down to black people so he has to he has to walk a fine line when he talks about his own experience of being profiled can you understand at all the black you can understand what i mean obama is the guy who in the one nine hundred fifty

. >> when you heard the tape of george zimmerman saying these a-holes, these f-ing punks are always gettingay with it, before he has the confrontation with trayvon, what did you think was going through george zimmerman's mind when he said that? >> i'm finally going too get one, that night. >> and be honest with me, rachel, do you think that that was racially motivated or more a case of somebody he thought was a young thug, black or white? >> it was racial. let's be honest, racial. if trayvon was white and he had a hoodie on, would that happen? because i ask you, that was around 7:00 or something. that's around the time people walk their dogs, people stand outside, all that. >> the jury, the juror tonight made it clear that the jury never really discussed race as being a motivating factor. >> i imagine, they're white. well, one hispanic lady. >> five white women on the jury and one hispanic. >> yeah. i had a feeling it was going to be not guilty. >> because of the make june of the jury? do you think it was wrong they didn't have any black people on the jury? >> no, not that. when someone bas

. >> when you heard the tape of george zimmerman saying these a-holes, these f-ing punks are always gettingwith it, before he has the confrontation with trayvon, what did you think was going through george zimmerman's mind when he said that? >> i'm finally going to get one, that night. >> and be honest with me, rachel, do you think that that was racially motivated or more a case of somebody he thought was a young thug, black or white? >> it was racial. let's be honest, racial. if trayvon was white and he had a hoodie on, would that happen? because i ask you, that was around 7:00 or something. that's around the time people walk their dogs, people stand outside, all that. >> the jury, the juror tonight made it clear that the jury never really discussed race as being a motivating factor. >> i imagine, they're white. well, one hispanic lady. but she stuck in the middle. >> five white women on the jury and one hispanic. >> yeah. i had a feeling it was going to be not guilty. >> because of the makeup of the jury? do you think it was wrong they didn't have any black people on the jury? >> no, not

one of those [ bleep ]ing punks. why does this defendant get out of car if he thinks trayvon martin is a threat to him? why? why? because he's got a gun! he's got the equalizer. he will take care of it. a want to be cop. he will take care of it. he's got a gun and my god, it's his community and he's not going to put up with it. police are taking too long to respond, he will handle it. >> then we move on to july 20, 2013. mr. hannity, giving him home runs, easy questions, can't even get that right, because he tells one lie after another. listen. >> the issue when you said -- on the 911 call that he's running, you said that to the dispatch. is there any chance in retrospect as you look back on that night and what happen, trying to maybe get into the mind-set, we have learned that trayvon was speaking to his girlfriend at the time, he was afraid of you, didn't know who you were? >> no. >> you don't think -- why do you think he was running then? >> maybe i said he was running -- >> you said he was running. >> yes. like s

if somebody on a call to the authorities called his mate, said he's a-holes, these f-ing punks always getting away with it, he is profiling this kid as a potential criminal. >> not necessary -- >> what else is he doing? >> he is a neighborhood patrol officer. his job is to try to stop crime in this neighborhood, and there was nothing inheritly wrong with being a neighborhood patrol officer. they are people who care about their neighborhoods. as we heard at the end of this -- at the end of the defense case, there was a terrible crime right in this neighborhood that zimmerman was very concerned about the victims. so the fact that people are getting away with crime and he's upset about it, doesn't necessarily make him a racist, a thug or guilty of this murder. >> jeffrey toobin, a fascinating case and everyone is gripped by it. we'll wait with baited breath 7 grams of protein the new fiber one caramel nut protein bar. the new fiber one >>> i had a dream a witness would be judged not on her personality but the content of her testimony. on the content of her testimony. >> an incredible mom

other explanation for george zimmerman looking out the window and concluding he was an a-hole and f-'ing punk. what at the say? he was walking in the rain. really? really? you're calling the police because someone is walking slowly in the rain? does that have any credibility? could anyone possibly believe that. >> he said he looked like he is on drugs. he was on his cell phone and he said cop things. he looks like he has something in his pockets. >> he is reaching for his waist band. he is looking at me. he is checking me out. >> and he clearly thought he was a criminal based on race. this is the theme the defense went with at trial. we don't have to extrapolate. we don't have to imagine. that was their theory have to case and it was not challenged by the prosecution who said in closing, this is not about race. >> what does this mean in this national discussion going forward? we know the reverend al sharpton right now with civil rights leaders about how they move this forward. we'll take a break and continue our discussion of the george zimmerman verdict found not guilty. >> in the sort court

. >> so when he said these f-ing punks always get away from it, he wasn't referencing race but -- >>s referencing everything happening in the neighborhood. he wanted somebody to take -- get blamed and get caught, so maybe some of this would stop. >> as you know, there have been demonstrations in a lot of cities in the last day or so. i don't know if you've seen images of their -- people holding up signs saying that african american males are unsafe on the streets or that, you know, what -- one columnist on our program last night who was african american said he had to have a conversation with his sons about what speed is it okay for them to walk. too slow suspicious, too fast is suspicious, as well. do you think any of that is -- down where that comes from, or do you think race had nothing to do with this and therefore this doesn't say anything about african americans -- >> i don't think race had anything to do with this trial. i mean, just because he was black and george was spanish or puerto ricoen, i think they are trying to ever race play a part in this trial. >> back with our pa

he assumed also that he was an "f"-ing punk. and that the victim was going to get away before the police arrived. >> sunny, for you that was a key moment because it brought it back to the core of this case? >> exactly. because i think you have six women on the jury. five of them are mothers. and it shakes i think your very core as a persona someone could see your child walking down the street and make all of these false assumptions just because of the way that he looks. and i think it was really important for the prosecution to hone in on that, because that is what is wrong fundamentally about this case. trayvon martin was doing nothing wrong yet he was profiled. he was followed. he was targeted. and i think it really resonated in the courtroom. >> danny, for you the moment was when the prosecutor brought out the skittles and the drink. let's play that. >> trayvon martin, he was there legally. he hadn't broken in or sneaked in or trespassed. he was there legally. he bought skittles and some kind of watermelon or islesed tea or w

. >> so when he said these "f"-ing punks, they always get away with it, he wasn't referencing race, heo had broken -- >> he was referencing frustration because of everything that had been happening in the neighborhood. i think he was down to the point where he wanted somebody to take -- you know, get blamed and get caught. so maybe some of this would stop. >> and as you know, there have been demonstrations in a lot of cities in the last day or to. i don't know if you've seen some of the images of them. people holding up signs saying that african-american males are unsafe on the streets or that, you know, one columnist on my program last night said, who is african-american, said he had to have that conversation with his sons about what speed is it okay for them to walk, you know, too slow is suspicious, too fast is suspicious, as well. do you think any of that is -- do you understand where that comes from, or do you think race had nothing to do with this and this doesn't say anything about african-americans -- >> i don't think race had anything to do with this trial. just because he was

for his life and establishing that he wrongably saw trayvon martin as another in his words, "f"-ing punksways get away. prosecutors have sought to show that zimmerman walls aware of florida's statute of self-defense before he shot martin, not after. today, they called a military lawyer who says florida's stand your ground was a topic of discussion in the class, something the defense tried to blunt by turning the focus to the fear they say zimmerman felt that night. >> on the issue of injuries, though, when you talk about that with the class, and your understanding of the law is that the focus is what's going on in the person's mind, not whether they have actually been injured, it's the fear of the injury, is it not? >> it's imminent injury or excuse me, imminent fear. so the fact alone that there isn't an injury doesn't necessarily mean that the person did not have a reasonable apprehension of fear. the fact that there were injuries have a tendency to show or support that that person had a reasonable apprehension of fear. but the fact that there wasn't an injury at all doesn't necessarily

know he was racially motivated but looked at trayvon martin and started talking about a-holes and f-ing punks getting away from it. that's how he saw trayvon martin. that's how you see trayvon martin, a horrible nasty thug that got what is coming to him. there is no evidence of that. let me give the final word to reverend walker, this is a problem reverend walker that it's such a dividing issue -- >> absolutely -- >> there is no sensible calm debate about this. it reminds me of the gun control debate, which is so extreme on all sides. >> absolutely. >> how do you see a way through? you're at the cutting edge -- >> piers -- >> no, no, reverend walker is talking now, sir. >> i'm trying to talk. thank you very much, piers. i think what we are heard today is exactly what you're talking about, people talking at each other and not really listening. we have young people in our community here in rocks bury who will take this to the next level. this is a movement. if you're upset about this, if you have a point to ever about this -- >> this is not a movement. >> yes, it is. it is a movement -- >> peop

. >> f-ing punks. >> stephanie: can i just tell you people turn around in my driveway all the time.rning around in my driveway. >> stephanie: wow! so now because of my defense of trayvon martin thinking george zimmerman is a murderer who should be in jail i have been called a race traitor as you recall. so now -- who is this? shawn. i don't -- this hate letter and you are involved. >> oh i am. >> stephanie: black woman neck. >> oh, god this. i saw this yesterday. >> stephanie: did ya? >> yeah. >> stephanie: because you did that and i said you are not trying to do black woman neck are you? >> you called it black woman neck first. ♪ >> stephanie: okay. my black women friends have said the same thing to me -- and you make fun of me all the time. >> yeah, and you said i can't do black woman neck, because i have no neck. >> stephanie: which, jim -- jim has tried to helpfully pointed out to you a gym tip, you are not supposed to lift the whole machine. >> but what if you can? >> stephanie: oh show off. >> then you complain your back hurts. >> stephanie: wtf with you and your muscular buil

what was it about trayvon that made him a criminal or "f"-ing punk or a-hole? the conversation is evolving now, because this verdict, people are saying can people profile my child just walking home and follow and confront him? because the police can't do that. the united states supreme court says the police can't profile based on race. >> you said you believe racial profiling was part of this case, race was part of this case. >> yes. i think what's important here is that race was an element of his decision. in fact, when race did come into the arguments here, it was introduced by the defense when they said that a black man had previously broken into a white woman's home and that was entered into evidence. so race did come in, but in a very negative way. >> angela corey, you said this case was not about race, but you said trayvon martin was profiled to be a criminal. how do you reconcile those two things? >> many factors go into one human being profiling another human being. >> doesn't race factor into that? >> well, race could factor into it. it would be one of

what was it about trayvon that made him a criminal or "f"-ing punk or a-hole? the conversation is evolving now, because this verdict, people are saying can people profile my child just walking home and follow and confront him? because the police can't do that. the united states supreme court says the police can't profile based on race. >> you said you believe racial profiling was part of this case, race was part of this case. >> yes. i think what's important here is that race was an element of his decision. in fact, when race did come into the arguments here, it was introduced by the defense when they said that a black man had previously broken into a white woman's home and that was entered into evidence. so race did come in, but in a very negative way. >> angela corey, you said this case was not about race, but you said trayvon martin was profiled to be a criminal. how do you reconcile those two things? >> many factors go into one human being profiling another human being. >> doesn't race factor into that? >> well, race could factor into it. it would be one of

you have him on tape minutes before, calling him an f-ing punk, do we think he grew fonder of trayvonmmediately after at the station, he is saying he is a criminal, and five months later he is saying god's plan. what part of that is not ill will? >> well, ken, if manslaughter case is an easier one to prove, how do you defend the manslaughter case tomorrow because you're going to have to defend both of these? >> right, and the judge is going to read the instructions of self defense both times. she is going to read it right after she tells the jury the law for second degree murder and she is going to read self defense again, which she reads the manslaughter charge. so the defense is going to hear that twice, that is the defense's job, to really show the jury hey, there is reasonable doubt all over the place here. and there is reasonable doubt as to whether or not george zimmerman had to fire that gun to defend his life. and therefore, you must find my client not guilty. that is going to be the argument that the defense is going to have to make here for both second degree murder and for

. >> and whether you believe he said f-ing punks or frankly, as i think when you listen to the audio,ikely that he actually says f-ing coons, there is a degree of animus. and if he used the latter epithet, clear racial animus that should not -- that should if anything predispose you against zimmerman. it doesn't mean that you necessarily convict him. but at least you have a sense that this is a person who was motivated, at least initially, with ill intent. let's see how the events unfolded and whether or not there was anything that occurred that may have justified his use of force. but you don't start out with sympathy if you believe someone has shown that kind of antipathy or prejudice toward someone like trayvon martin. >> well, and we hope the justice department looks into all of this, and we're going to talk than later. zachary carter, joy reid, i'm going to have to hold there it. thank you both for your time. >> thank you. >>> tonight on "all in with chris hayes", we'll have much more on stand your ground, as well as the case of marissa alexander, which we have cover on this show

conduct, the fact that he referred to them as a-holes, the fact that he talked about them being f-ing punks on how you hear it on the tape. the fact that his course of conduct in following this young man, who didn't behave in any way based on any objective evidence we've seen so far that would signal that he was involved in any suspicious or criminal activity. i mean, one of the things that i think it will be useful, and i'm sure that the jury will see it at some point is the surveillance tape in the 7-eleven, because then you see the trayvon martin that any rational person would have seen. and there you see a tall, skinny black kid dressed the way our kids do in a hoodie. after all, it was raining, who is coming in to run an errand, to buy skittles and an iced tea. and it doesn't seem that the clerk feels like he is in any danger from this kid. he doesn't see a thug. he doesn't see a criminal. he sees a customer, who comes in and pays him. now, if you believe george zimmerman's description of trayvon martin and how he was allegedly behaved that evening, he would have punched the cashier in

and establishing that he wrongfully thought trayvon martin as another one of those in his word, f-ing punksdn't go away and prosecutors have fought to show that zimmerman was well aware of florida's statutes on self-defense before he shot martin and not after, as he claimed. today they called a military lawyer who said florida's stand your ground law was indeed a topic of discussion in the class and something the defense tried to blunt by turning the focus to the fear they said zimmerman felt that night. >> on the issue of injuries, though. when you talk about that with the class and your understanding of the law is that the focus is what's going on in the person's mind, not whether they have actually been injured. it's the fear of the injury, is it not? >> it's imminent injury. or -- excuse me, imminent fear. so the fact alone that there isn't an injury doesn't necessarily mean that the person did not have a reasonable apprehension of fear. the fact that there were injuries have a tendency to show or support that that person had a reasonable apprehension of fear, but the fact that there wa

i think it's hard not to interpret f-ing punks and these animals always get away. i think they could clear that bar. so i'm not sure if that gets you to the level of second-degree murder or not. that's really up to the jury. but, you know, i think that faith makes a really important point. the only person that establishes george zimmerman's self-defense claim is george zimmerman, because there were no other witnesses to the entire fight. but the second thing that establishes george zimmerman's claim is his wounds, the actual blood on the back of his head, the nose, the bloody nose, and that sort of thing. you also saw john guy try to take that apart. he showed the same picture mark o'mara has use very effectively during the defense presentation, and he said look at this guy. does this guy look like somebody who had to fight for his life. look at his nose. does that look like a life-threatening injury? look at him. it also had a double effect of showing george zimmerman, not the soft, pudgy guy sitting there, but someone who looked a lot tougher. so i think the pros