for the palestinians efforts to digitalize israel will end in failure symbolic actions to isolate israel of the united nations in september would create an independent state obama's fears are not unwarranted the general assembly vote would leave only the u.s. israel and a handful of other countries in the start line already on the issue sending a message for guarding the legitimacy of the palestinian position in the conflict but above all the vote could cause significant backlash in the middle east already in turmoil from the arab spring the stage is being set for calamity the high risk of palestinian riots to fully claim a state followed by a very tough israeli crackdowns and infanta the unexpected and unpredictable popular upheavals in the middle east although initially the palestinians decision to go to the un became a fallback option after the negotiations hit a dead end last year israeli government has warned that the un move would halt the peace efforts i don't think that they would it would get them any closer to the desired other country the meaning of such a step is that they ar

what is this going to do this is just going to isolate israel more and if it isolates israel more it doesn't make israel just put its back up against a wall we don't go anywhere here go ahead i certainly hope it does isolate israel and i certainly hope that spawning from this we begin to see boycotts of israel we begin to see sanctions imposed on israel and we begin to see more and more international activity in an international legal arena rather than through this farcical negotiations that have taken place it's time for israel to be held accountable and i hope it certainly is after this after this u.n. session ok benny and what are you going to be a last word twenty seconds go ahead. i really wish that the palestinians would return to the negotiating table to which they've been invited repeatedly and actually do so seriously in good faith and negotiate the two state solution they don't want to do that there won't be any settlement the palestinians will continue to suffer all right we'll see what happens next week many thanks to my guests today in toronto and in bet shemesh and than

future of israel. there is no future for israel as a jewish and a democratic state that is secure and living within recognized boundaries if it doesn't deal with both sides of the coin. one side of the coin is that has to reach peace with all its neighbors and it needs borders that are accepted by the neighbors and recognized by the whole world. that is one part of the puzzle for the future but the other part for those of us who care deeply about israel is the internal. it is the domestic health, the vibrancy of the democracy, the adherence to jewish values in practice where finally have power. do they keep up what they said when we were a minority and we said you know the minority should really be treated well. they should be given equal rights. you shouldn't have systems where you have preferences for those in power. we thought that was a good thing when we were in the minority. how about when we are in power? so i couldn't agree more. they're wonderful organizations like the u.s. is real fun that fo

israel? our major international airport is a few kilometers away from the west bank. without peace, will our planes become targets for targets anti-arkte missiles placed in the anti-israel states? and how will we stop the smuggling into the west bank? it's the west bank mountain just dominates the coastal plane where most of israel's population sits below. how could we prevent the smuggling into these mountains of those missiles that could be fired on our city? i bring up these problems because they are not theatrical problems. they are very real. and for israelis they are life and death matters. all these potential cracks in israel's security have to be sealed in a peace agreement before a palestinian state is declared. not afterwards. because if you leave it jards, it won't. and these problems will explode in our face and explodes the peace. the palestinians should first make peace with israel. and then get their state. i also want to tell you this. after such a peace agreement is signed, i

the uprising in israel. they're finding it difficult to talk about the demands of the protesters because it demands a protest or suffer things like greater distribution of wealth and greater equality and income distribution and these of course are ideas that america equates with socialism and communism and so. the there's a hidden norma's disconnect here because america as israel billions of dollars every single year and yet the people of israel don't seem to want to emulate what's happening in america at all i would say the majority of the protesters are talking about raising taxes they want higher taxes so that there will be sufficient income and to it implement social programs and policies that they're asking for which is that complete opposite of of the main discourse in the us that taxes are considered the root of all evil and any call for raising taxes is immediately equated to communism and i completely agree with that but we have to remember that this is rooted in israeli history because israel used

said that he's willing to reach a temporary a temporary truce with israel also israel it is clear he is willing to accept that all this is just going to say no that's true that's true he says he has indeed all of that are really just a chance here in germany are we to go to a break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the palestine cloke state party. and. if you can. well. bringing you the latest in science and technology from around russia. we've done the journey covered. this. six. welcome back to crossfire computable to mind you were talking about what the future holds for the palestinians. ok benny and i to go to you let's let's do a hypothetical here i mean you know the general assembly the vast majority the country the general assembly support the palestinian bid for changing its status of the united nations and we know that the united states will veto it but in the hypothetical case how would this change once the united nations takes a vote it will be in favor of the palestinians how will this change israel's position or will it not change at all. ok let

and most israel. really support this really support the sixty seven border my my point my point in all of this my point in all of this peter is that it's very well and good for people to now in the year two thousand and eleven talk about what the palestinians should have done in one nine hundred forty seven but if we actually look back to what has done what happened in history if now benny morris is in that very same position he would not agree to give up any more of his of of the territory that israel controls even already he's not willing to give up the territory that israel controls in terms of the sixty seven borders so i think it's fictitious to start talking about the offers that palestinians turn down and i think we should instead start looking towards the future and the future is if the israelis want to have peace they have to begin to recognize the palestinians as equals and this is something that no israeli leader has committed himself to whether it's under the guise of two states or one sta

and israel what they're actually saying the u.s. will continue to subsidize the arms industry and make sure that the middle east will continue to be very volatile very violent so that it will continue to buy weapons so that the neighbors of israel will continue to buy more weapons and that will create huge profits for the u.s. arms manufacturers does that make the live the life of israeli citizens any better certainly not but it does make the life of israeli prime minister netanyahu better because he knows that the one weapon he still has by which he can finance the protests and already he's hoping to silence the protests with is war is there going to be another war in the middle east if there's going to be in violent clash with the palestinians or with the. lebannon and then it all with iran then in the name of a state of emergency he can recruit and the young people and they will no longer be in the streets in the. plaza demonstrating that instead they will be in uniform and fighting a war and that will be the end of the protest i

boycotts of israel we begin to see sanctions imposed on israel and we begin to see more and more international activity in an international legal arena rather than through this farcical negotiations that have taken place it's time for israel to be held accountable and i hope it certainly is after this after this u.n. session ok very and we really realize we're twenty seconds go. i really wish that the palestinians would return to the negotiating table to which they've been invited repeatedly and actually do so seriously in good faith and negotiated some state solution they don't want to do that there won't be any settlements the palestinians will continue to suffer all right we'll see what happens next week many thanks to my guests today in toronto and in back and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember prostitutes will. kick. start. the. missions free credit stations free. for charges free. range month free. free. free. downloads free broadcast live video for your media projects a free medio don carty dot com. home.

not with israel. and the attempt to go to the united nations and sort of do an end game around israel will not work. and finally, and then i'd be happy to discuss this further with my colleague from florida, mr. deutch, let me just say this, and we've heard some rumblings about it with some of our colleagues here. this congress will not continue to fund the palestinian authority, it's not going to be a blank check, if the palestinian authority doesn't want peace and doesn't show that it wants peace, we are not going to continue to fund them. i introduced a resolution in the foreign affairs committee which came for the state department markup which passed unanimously on a roll call vote, with holding money, ending money, to the palestinian authority if they come to the united nations for a vote. passed unanimously, every democrat, every republican. and so this congress is not going to be a fool. if the palestinians want peace or they don't, but they cannot have it both ways. they cannot say they want p

. >> rose: we conclude with the case for israel from ron prosor, israel's ambassar to the united nations and mort zuckerman, american businessman who's a strong supporter of israel. >> israel does not object to the palestinian state. the prime minister of the state of israel stands and repeats day in and day out, people just don't listen, i am for palestinian state, i am for two states for two people solution and i'm willing morrow morning to meet abu mazen to talk to him without any pre-conditions about statehood and about security and about overall peace. >> i think a sense what the united states has to stand for are certain sort of immutable principles in that negotiation andtherefore, you know, the united states is opposed to what the palestinians are seeking to do, which is really not just to have the resolution, it's the terms of the resolution that will make a negotiation much more difficult and the united states knows better than anybody the attempts to have negotiations privately between the parties which have been turned down by the palestinians. the united states is very much

six hours to cross the united states, three hours to cross israel, three minutes to cross israel by air, by jet plane. so what are we going to do? we're going to take this tiny airspace, chopt into two, give half to the palestinian state that is not yet at peace with israel? what are we going to do with airplanes landing in ben-gurion airport? we don't have yet peace. they can fire rocke at our planes coming in because they're circling of necessity above palestinian cities. you've got this whole array... can we go in hot pursuit after palestinian terrorists, hamas teorists who will opete from palestinian areas? these are not toretical problems. we left gaza, every square inch. we gave abu mazen, the palestinian authority, the keys to gaza. heas booted out to two seconds later by iran, iran's proxy hamas and we started having rockets falling on rael because we didn't wo out these details. we gave them a state without working out the peace. we gave them sta without working out security first. we shouldn't repeat that mistake. we're prepared to have a peace in which the palestinians have a

in stance with israel of late and having server diplomatic ties with israel it really changed tack after israel's girls assault of late two thousand and eight early two thousand and nine after which over a thousand palestinians were killed most of them turned out to be noncombatants. that was when. prime minister. took to the national stage publicly shamed the israeli president shimon peres at the world economic forum in davos where he said to him you know how to kill people before storming off stage that was cemented last year after a garza. was stormed by israeli military commanders and nine turkish civilians were killed. since then despite you know greater terms and some u.s. pressure there has not been a situation brought about where israel has apologized for those deaths as a result of which turkey has set its ties which is a huge loss for israel and i think our biggest area. of joseph i know you want to jump you go right ahead please do you know it well first before i would take issue with some of the facts that rachel mentioned but i would buy this fall and this is a very importan

relationship with israel.y and herman cain said last night in a fox news google presidential debate. >> the president went about this all wrong. he went around the world and apologized for america. he addressed the united nations in his inaugural address and chastised our friend, israel, for building settlements and said nothing about hamas launching thousands of rockets into israel before netanyahu came to the united states he threw israel under the bus trying to negotiate for israel. if you disagree with an ally you talk about it private but in public you stand shoulder to shoulder with your allies. >> the administration has nod mate it clear how it stands with israel. last month i met with the deputy prime minister and he made it shockingly chillingly clear that, given everything going on, number one, israel will defend itself with all attentions going on in the middle east and they also made it clear, that he wasn't sure how this administration stood when it came to israel. i made it clear, which i also ma

opposes not the policies of israel but the existence of israel. some argue the spread of militant islam especially in these turbulent times if you want to slow it down, they argue, israel must hurry to make concessions. to make territorial compromise. this theory sounds simple. basically it goes like this. leave the territory. peace will be advanced. the moderates will be strengthened, radicals will be kept at bay and don't worry about the details of how israel will defend itself. international troops will do the job. these people say constantly make a sweeping offer and everything will work out. there's only one problem with that theory. we have tried it. it hasn't worked. in 2000 israel made a sweeping piece of fur that met virtually all the palestinian demands. the arabs rejected it. palestinian lodged a terror attack that claimed 1,000 is really lives. the prime minister after words made an even more sweeping offer. in 2008 abbas didn't even respond but israel did more than make a sweeping offer. we actually left territories. we withdrew from

lawmakers pro israel supporters and the prime minister of israel himself and human netanyahu responding immediately by saying if israel did return to its pretty nine hundred sixty seven borders it would be left quote indefensible a lot fast forward to today and the u.s. and israel seem to be on the same page with president obama at least at this point abandoning the notion that this would be the year that there will in fact be a new member of the united nations an independent sovereign state of palestine now in report kalen pointed out a little bit of what's behind those changes but i want to talk about this more and to talk about this part of the story let's bring in the editor of counterpunch alexander coburn who is in petroleum gornja. hey there alexander let's start with something the u.s. ambassador to the u.n. susan rice said she said that the move by president abbas is quote not going to create a state not in reality and not even in theory she said the fundamental issues that divide the parties will remain i guess i just want to get your take on this and what you think is really

it's not even a consequence because look israel will not apologize israel doesn't feel that it needs to apologize and clouding the government position turkey on the other hand as you know and as your reporter said before hand in her report turkey's not only demanding an apology but actually said in ultimatum that if israel does not need to wear it if israel does not apologize then then diplomatic relations will not be severed but will be downgraded turkey will not only not wee in state its ambassador here in israel but israel's ambassador to turkey to ankara will be asked to leave packing and go on which basically means a downgrading of our relations this is detrimental to both sides interests all these demands for regrets and apologies in national honor are very nice but in the end nations have to act or at least i would hope they need to act according to their interests and not according to emotions because countries in the end should not have emotions they should have where they do in fact have interests. i think that it's also bad in the sense that the geopolitical conditions tha

bed which of course israel is against you need to remember that turkey was israel's closest ally in the region and relationships between israel and turkey are at the lowest they've been in more than twenty years and certainly seeing the same between tel aviv and cairo where relations between israel and egypt are also now at an all time low. let's get reaction now from dr gallagher lindenstrauss from the institute for national security studies in a television thanks very much for joining us today now it has lost an important ally in the region do you think turkey's moves are an over reaction or should israel have seen this coming. think the israeli government took a conscious decision when you decided not to apologise. not apologizing had a price not should move the price would be so. and also i think they knew this in advance but once it happens it's still shocking you said that israel was expecting that bit of reaction from turkey but didn't know the extent of it now that it doesn't know the extent of it what is its reaction i mean the position it's in right now. yes it is trying to ke

israel?or international airport is a few kilometers away from the west bank. without peace will our planes become targets for anti-aircraft missiles place inside the adjacent palestinian state? and how will we stop the smuggling into the we've bank -- it's not merely the west bank, it's the west bank mountains, just dominates the coastal plain where most of israel's population sits below. how could we prevent the smuggling into these mountains of those missiles that could be fired on our cities? i bring up these problems because they're not seen as radical problems, they're very real. and for israelis, they're life and death matters. all the potential cracks in israel's security have to be healed in a peace agreement before a palestinian state is declared, not afterwards. because if you leave it afterwards, they won't be sealed. and these problems will explode in our face and explode the peace. the palestinians should, first, make peace with israel and then get their stake. but i also want to

and why israel was against it? be, what happened last week the u.n., that's the second question and the third question, what will happen in the future, in the next year or so? the advantage that i have over you is i'm not representing the official position so i can be critical from all sides, not only on the other side but also on the israeli position. so why did the palestinians decide to go to the u.n.? according to the palestinian leader it was very simple. to continue the negotiation on the diplomatic domain, the direct negotiations didn't reach any thing and therefore we are changing our strategy, we are moving at into the diplomatic arena to continue the negotiation. this is what he wrote that the u.n. political at "the new york times" article some time ago. others would say and this is the is really, most of the israelis position, well, it's not continued negotiation, it is instead of negotiations. it's to use advantages which would be given to the palestinians if they move to the u.n. but they don't have to

israel with the u.s. support of course is resisting saying such a move will hamper peace talks with the palestinians all the other hand abbas insists his people do have a right to be fully represented in the u.n. itself just palestine really have the chops to become the one hundred ninety five member of the united nations and what's made it mean for the rest of the middle east we're asking professor he knows of a gas from the institute of oriental studies of the russian academy of science to. israel warns the current situation in the middle east will likely be upset if they do and recognizes palestine as a member state jerusalem here's our support granted some of what abbas and his people need very the peace process once and for all and spark more conflict in the region. are you recognition is vital for the protection of that territory from israeli expansion. although the jewish state is backed by the us palestine has a number of powerful allies two one of them is turkey which turned against israel after

and israel? >> it could be.it is possible that if israel were to vote for this and actually negotiate with the palestinians, they could find agreeable language that could give hope to a positive outcome between the parties. but that is not likely. the israeli government has made clear from the beginning that they oppose this move and are not going to work to get a tax i can agree to. while it would be a positive for israel, they will control the same territory but will have been good will behind it. that is not going to happen. it will be a difficult scenario following the u.n. action, whether there is a vote or not. >> thanks for sharing your views. to americans torque with espionage have now been freed by iran. tell us more. >> shane bauer and joshua fattal were detained while hiking along the iran-iraq border in 2009. a companion was released in 2010. they have been released on bail. laura trevelyan reports. >> the joy of freedom. the released u.s. hikers race into the arms of their waiting families, after th

prisoners in israel. it's not that kind of situation. you got 10,000 people under incarceration in israel, all of them palestinians, some are children, some are women, some are old people. >> charlie: some are charged with murder. >> those charged with murde will get their just deserve and some are hold without prior and even without accusation. you have on the other side one soldier who is captured in a military oration by hamas. so which has more imperatives, more than the other? i think if your government is serious about it, they would have pressured israel to reach an agreement with hamas that hamas offered toelease -- in return for release of certain prisoners of these 10,000 held by israel. >> charlie: is there any indicati that hamas is changing. >> let me put it this way. you go back to 1993, okay. the plo then had the same language in its charter that hamas has in i charter about the removal of israel from palestinian territory, palestinian claims on all the territory, etcetera, etcetera. etcete

you're welcome, israel. know who is also a great friend of israel, rick perry. >> rick perry is working his way into the palestinian statehood debate. the republican front-runner for president schmoozing with jewish leaders in new york. >> we'ric wallly indignant of the obama administration and their middle east policy of appeasement that has encouraged such an ominous act of bad faith. >> stephen: yes, obama is acting in bad faith. rick perry stands with the jews, when he's not dancing with them. >> stephen: you know, you know who would love that dance? the crowd at his next christian only stadium prayer rally. (laughter) >> stephen: when we return, i will talk more about the palestinian drive for statehood with jeremy ben ami, the president of the pro-israel, pro peace organization j-street. we'll be right back. (cheers and applause) (cheers and applause) >> stephen: welcome back, everybody. my guest tonight is the president of the pro peace, pro-israel lobby j street. i found him on j date. please welcome