it showed vulnerability for jeb. there's a personal thing here that has nothing to do with the numbers, bush family and mitt romney were very close for a long time. mitt romney gave a speech in the 2008 campaign about mormonism. some said this is his john f. kennedy speech like when john talked about roman catholicism. he was introduced by george bush senior had a close relationship with george bush senior. in the 2012 campaign mitt romney was basically left hanging by jeb bush. the fate of the candidacy was on the line. newt gingrich crushed him in south carolina. romney had to bounce back win florida. who do you want on your side in a must win situation, you want jeb bush. what did he say to mitt romney no i am not going to do anything for you. didn't lift a finger. there's resentment there, also after the election in 2012. after the election in 2012 jeb bush more than other republicans, there were plenty of republicans that piled on mitt romney after that more than other republicans jeb bush was specifically criti

not even a veiled swipe at jeb bush. that's a direct swipe at jeb bush. hard to see looking at mitt romney going forward, if he decides he wants to play an active role in picking the republican nominee versus the idea of stepping back and trying to be a more unifying figure if he wants to get involved and endorse somebody and line up money for somebody very hard to see how that will be jeb bush. the two that i look at in this vast cluttered field, you could see it being chris christie. you have jeb bush -- skoumexcuse me, you have mitt romney -- >> steve, that's just spite on his part. he's not going to get through the legal mess! he's not going to get through all the legal mess? because if anybody gets indicted they'll point the finger at him. it will be a courtroom flight with bridget kelly or somebody else pointing the finger at him. this is such a mess for him. i don't see how we can keep talking about chris christie being a candidate after the mess in new jersey. >> i covered this story as aggressively as anybody has. >> you were out front. >> look a

not even a veiled swipe at jeb bush. that's a direct swipe at jeb bush. hard to see looking at mitt romney going forward, if he decides he wants to play an active role in picking the republican nominee versus the idea of stepping back and trying to be a more unifying figure, if he wants to get involved and endorse somebody and line up money for somebody, very hard to see how that will be jeb bush. the two that i look at in this vast cluttered field, you could see it being chris christie. you have jeb bush -- excuse me, you have mitt romney -- >> steve, that's just spite on his part. he's not going to get through the legal mess! he's not going to get through all the legal mess? because if anybody gets indicted, they'll point the finger at him. it will be a courtroom flight with bridget kelly or somebody else pointing the finger at him. this is such a mess for him. i don't see how we can keep talking about chris christie being a candidate after the mess in new jersey. >> i covered this story as aggressively as anybody has. >> you were out front. >> look at

ask you about jeb.oes this stuff, you got to say the reviews of what he did, the surprise, the positive impression on the donors all going well. than romney does this and work comes out that romney thinks jeb does not know how to run as a businessman, does not know how to do with immigration. knowing jeb as you do, how do you think he is reacting from the elbows from romney world? >> i think his attitude is he is just going to march forward. the reality is, if this becomes jeb bush versus romney, it is going to be an ugly race. it probably will get pretty personal pretty quickly. over the course of the next 12 to 15 months. there is so much ideology that divides them. a more respectful race ironically, would be ted cruz versus romney or jeb bush. because there is something ideologically. romney and jeb could get nasty pretty quickly. these things, as you know, take on a life of their own. >> let's talk about ryan, who you're also very close to. paul ryan has said he is not running. we interviewed him du

i think there is no love lost and more so probably mitt to jeb than jeb to mitt. have think the christie think is a poke at jeb. >> they are tweeting reactions -- >> they must love him. your best day in politics is the day you decide not to run. >> exactly. jeb says mitt is a patriot and i join many in hoping his days of serving his nation and our party are not over. he can still be helpful to whoever the nominee is. >> i think that's right. i think somebody else -- i think mitt romney wants to be viewed as the elder statesman -- >> i think he wants to be a king maker now. >> i don't know what means anymore, when you have a rambunctious electorate you've got to be careful. if you try to be a king maker, sometimes the establishment will run away from that a little bit. but i think he clearly -- i think he can play a role. i have a feeling now you'll see mitt romney back off. he was getting engaged in day to day politics. he'll back off and take a 30,000 foot view again. >> marco rubio has weighed in. over the past two years there hasn't been a day when i didn't thi

here's jeb bush. he said mitt is a patriot and join many in hoping his days of serving our nation and our party are not over. another reaction here from another republican candidate is scott walker. the governor of wisconsin. he said on twitter yesterday, had a great conversation with mitt romney. he's a good man. thanked him for his interest in opening the door for a fresh leader in america. mitt romney had dinner with chris christie. katie, you know romney very well. you worked on his campaign. the role he's going to play going forward in the nominating process. and where do you think mitt romney ends up when he looks at the field? who does he like in the field, you think? >> i would expect mitt will be focused on building the party and very focused on defeating hillary clinton. that's his ultimate goes. a lot of folks will remember that chris christie did support romney early in the process. at a very critical time. certainly you remember people that played a significant role. i wouldn't overstate

governor jeb bush sent this tweet. mitt is a patriot and i join many in hoping his days of serving our nation and party are not over. senator rand paul quote, my family and i wish mitt and ann the best. we have gotten to know them over the last few years and deeply respect the family and mitt's service. okay, joining us now to explain what led to this morning's political drama as we were watching it and senior political editor mark murray and msnbc host steve kornacki. first to you on this why? >> i think there are a couple of factors but to me maybe the most interesting was that the ground was beginning to crumble beneath mitt romney's feet. just yesterday before today's announcement, you had dave could chal, the top strategist in 2008 and 2012 become the campaign manager in waiting for jeb bush. and there are also a host of other folks who are about to get on the jeb bush train who had been in the mitt romney or so mitt rommy faced a decision either he announced he would be in or out and do it quickly. the reason for

about jeb bush. forgive me, governor. is he hillary clinton or is he bill clinton? hillary clinton in 2008 ran, she was formidable on paperu.s. like jeb bush is now, she had a great organization, could raise the money like jeb bush is now but she had an ideology problem, voted for authorization to go in war in iraq, jeb bush has the ideology problem on immigration and education or is he bill clinton who ran against his own party said democrats have to be different. we're wrong on some issues and we have to change if we're going to win and his viability as a general election candidate helped him survive some inner party challenges? >> i think he wants to be a bill clinton. but they're going to do their darnedest to make him the hillary clinton and i think that's what he -- remember he's talked about wanting to run with joy. >> with joy. >> a real desire. he can see the path from march 2016 on. what he can't live with is between now and march 2016 and clearing the decks and putting all the e-mails out

jeb bush, about fracking?uest: i am not sure about the specific lawsuit the caller is talking about. this is somewhat of a problem for jeb bush and it was a problem for mitt romney, in a lot of ways -- the sense that these candidates are a part of big business, the wall street crowd, and it plays into the republican party's perception that it is a party for the rich. of course, on the democratic side, hillary clinton has a big problem with this. she is very well-connected with wall street donors and a lot of the money comes from wall street. that is an issue with both parties. on the issue of fracking and energy, i think this is a great issue for republicans to hang onto. two and half years ago i spent a week in north dakota and it is a fascinating story happening -- it is really the wild west. interesting things moving -- happy with people moving out there with no connection to the oil industry. north dakota has some of the lowest unemployment rates highest growth rates in the economy out there. i think there

you are looking at the mitt-jeb dynamic.ell us about the big battle for the gop establishment donor class. >> they are all over each other, 's turf, and the donors are a little bit wringing their hands about what to do at this point. i think that jeb getting into the race early signals to donors that they can sign-on with a candidate, and the donors that i am talking to this week are on hold until we get a sense of who really is going to be in the race at this point. >> do you think that jeb's trip up to boston may have spurred romney? >> oh yes, it definitely did. especially if you look on twitter, you have scott brown was tweeting a photo of him, these should be romney's people. >> let's go to san diego, mark. julie was just talking about the fact that it was possible that bush actually provoked romney in some way by going onto his home turf and not just talking about his bunglers, what he think about that? >> mitt is a competitive guy and so is spencer, and that is key. he has been his fundraiser ray long time, and that b

you saw that some today with jeb bush. we're not going to cede any demographic, any voters as we try to work to appeal to these people. that's potentially going to be very different from what's coming from the congress unless the gop can get their leaders in line. >> going to have to leave it there. thank you both for your time tonight. >>> coming up jeb bush 2016. does his potential new push for the white house include an attack on his brother's presidency? also tonight's justice file murder charges for a 30-year-old man accused of killing his rich dad, because his allowance was too small. >>> and prison time for the man once considered one of the gop's rising stars. all that plus the amazing biden, joe being joe. >> oh look at this. >> he's my saluting guy. now, remember me when you're president, okay? >> okay. >> okay, good boy. >> if hillary doesn't run, is this what we'll see on the campaign trail? that's ahead in "conversation nation." [container door opening] ♪ what makes it an suv is what you can get into it. ♪ [co

jeb bush. >> i agree with jake's assessment 100% this is a really ambivalent statement. there's a bit of a concrete reason here though and gloria touched on this. he had a call last week in a meeting in boston with a number of his advisers. ann romney has been pushing romney to run. romney is uncomfortable with seeing his place in the party diminish by jeb bush and others who are making calls to donors et cetera. there's a loyal crew of advisers in boston who have been with romney for a long time urging him to run. there are many other close advisers who are saying you don't have this. this isn't yours for the taking and they are backing that up with information from the field. romney said in that statement he had field staff and there was wide support from his former campaign staffers. that's actually not true. that's a big reason that romney is backing away from this. one of the biggest things that happened in this early stage of the republican race so far, gloria talked about this one of rom

mitt romney 19 jeb bush 10. mitt romney 19 jeb bush 11. those are not great numbers.tt romney you hear jeb bush is coming the party is getting behind him, you see poll after poll that shows you doubling up jeb bush in some cases, i think you look at the numbers and say why not me? >> interesting. msnbc's steve kornacki. we know the first of two phone calls expected today by mitt romney is under way. we will see how that goes. be sure to watch "up" with steve kornacki at 8:00 eastern here on msnbc. >>> take you live to the annual super bowl press conference under way, two opposing head coaches hoping to take their team to victory. up next super bowl predictions from some unlikely sources. >>> and jimmy fallon's panel of puppies may have missed last january, but they're puppies. >> let's release the puppies. the broncos got a good lead there. they're going back. looks like a clear win there. you got denver broncos going to win the super bowl. huh, fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. everybody knows that. well, did you know words real

jeb bush and mitt romney are set to meet awkwardly in utah.mong those most instructed -- interested, rand paul, who just fired off a series of tweets mocking jeb and mitt. when it comes to the two, we have no idea what they will be talking about, but it is hard to imagine they will be able to avoid the elephant in the room the fact they want the same job. which of them has the stronger argument for talking the other out of running? >> the easy answer is to say romney has the weaker argument. he ran last time. republicans have not been impressed with his flirtation. they same it -- say mitt can't win. there is an alternative. romney has done it before. people can deride that. jeb bush has quietly done a great job. romney can still argue, i've done it. jeb can't prove what i've done. >> i will ask you later in this exchange which of those arguments you believe. i think the argument against romney running is much stronger. i know jim bush is rusty. i know he will have trouble getting through the republican nomination, but mitt romney got shellack

jeb is smart to hammer away at this early, jeb is in a primary for the donor class, which is jeb, mittowered campaign machine that runs off millions a week in overhead. >> there's always the question we hear about rubio and bush there's a pretty longstanding relationship with them personal relationship with them. i'm not getting the impression that that matters much to rubio in terms of running. what's your sense? would that ultimately hold him back not wanting to run against somebody he's been close to and helpful to him in his career? >> no steve, it won't. i'll tell you why. marco, as you said respects jeb tremendously and thinks he's a formidable candidate, would raise an incredible amount of money. if you're called to run for president, your relationships and friendships in the past have to be something, if you feel so compelled to make such a consequential jump in your life you have to look at it as something that the country comes first and your vision for it comes first and previous relationships you've had with folks have to be set aside. that is not that he's ever going -- it

what about jeb bush? >> that's why he moved out of wall street. he basically watched the mistakes that romney made last time on the taxes and slow to pull the trigger on a lot of transparency issues. he also said he's going to make all his e-mails in public. governor rick scott refused to release his e-mails and they're still in litigation. he watched the mistake of others and is trying to get ahead of the curve. these two traditional republican base kind of guys who basically chop each other up and do away with a lot of the field. >> how do you think jeb bush responded to hearing this news? >> not very well obviously. i do want to add that the one thing that does stand out with me is jeb bush's wife. she had some issues with the law when he was governor, and i think that's going to come back. i have asked a few people in florida what do they think, what do they remember and the first thing that everybody brings up is they remember those issues with his wife. so i think the wife may be an issue that is definitely going to come up. >> how do we kno

and you know jeb's a -- he's a veteran. can he change that?on't know. >> we'll call him the tin man, he's rusty. moving to dave. >> this is like a hollywood squares here. only like a hollywood triangle. dave wee gell at the top, we'll talk about rand -- dave weigel at the top we'll talk about rand's strengths and other issues. >> his strength is he's move aid way from his system his father built. i was with paul a couple of weeks ago he, knew exactly where he was going, who to meet. i think a weakness would be he has a certain air of overconfident and think he is can take point on every issue he knows where he's going right now. his first month in the senate in the majority will be spent introducing a lot of bills he's worked through the last time but when the issue pops up, when snow den popped up and this might -- eric snowdon popped up his instinct was to say he's more of an outlaw icon, not a criminal. everyone else said he's committing treason. there's an incident like that that could happen. people write about the base out there in the r

jeb is common core, jeb is immigration. jeb has been talking about raising taxes recently. can you imagine jeb trying to get through a republican primary? can you imagine what ted cruz is going to do to jeb bush? i mean, that's going it be ugly." with the barbs already flying, the first ground for romney and bush will be to win over the republican donor base. the money guys. the fat cats. and both candidates are able fund-raisers. we know that. joining me right now, msnbc political analyst, david corn of "mother jones" looking at this from somewhat of an ideological distance. and robert costa of the "washington post." robert, i want to start with you. dead center. this guy, you're mainly hearing jeb is going to be centrist. he's going to be for respecting same-sex marriages. he's going to be for immigration reform. meaning people are allowed to come into the country to become citizens at some point. what else? he's for common core, he's for educational standards. romney immediately says, you have principles, i'm going to screw you. i'm going hard right on everything you sta

three children: noelle, jeb junior and george. george is the texas land commissioner, responsible for managing billions of dollars in state assets and mineral rights. jeb's work history, banking, real estate, entrepreneurial ventures and of course governor of florida two terms, 1999 to 2006. . >> when, regardless of his last name does jeb bush's previous experience qualify him for the oval office? tom rogan. >> i think it does if we look at previous presidential candidates in comparison but ultimately the question of qualifications, any candidate can have the qualifications if the primary voters like them. >> exciting case. >> he's curious, he speaks spanish. >> what's the problem of the current governor down there who is going to have a second term but is a figure of, what, contradiction >> controversy. >> john, he has the experience, no doubt about it, but there's a sense he's the moderate candidate who is going to be put up as mccain was as others were and some of them will go after him very hard and we'll see what he's made of

so he has gone with jeb bush. a lot of folks have tried to drive a one to one correlation saying the loss in iowa was the straw that broke the cappal's back and got romney out. they had been sort of thinking this through and beginning to have a more tempered approach to it several days ago. cochal is a huge get for jeb bush. it means he out of politics for 15 years can go into iowa with a seasoned organizer big boost for jeb not withstanding the let down it was for romney. >> it's eric. so i listened to that comment that he put out there very classy and nice. he stepped aside. you could feel it was emotional for him, it was a tough decision for he and his family. one of the lines that jumped out is he said i'm stepping aside and hopefully to have a new generation of republicans to take over. a lot of people are saying if he was stepping aside to make room for jeb bush that might not be the way he would do that. so a lot of other people are saying is it rubio or christie? what did he mean by the new generation? wha

but i agree ewith you no way jeb bush is going to be i said you're going to have to fight for this, jebis to you and you have a lot of outstanding people out there. like john kasich and so on that will fight like dogs for this. so, it is going to be a dog fight and you're also right, by the way, to some extent when you look at these polls, it's name recognition. a lot of americans don't even know who these governors are. >> it's really out there in phoenix. appreciate your time. >> it's 32 in phoenix. no global warming steve. >> oh, come on now. >> great political moments don't come along very often. up next look at the speech responsible for how many moments in american politics in the past 30 years were made and later how great moments are remembered. the new film "selma" stray too far from the real relationship. andrew young will be here to talk about that and plus a whole lot more. stay with us. >> a shining city is perhaps all the president sees from the veranda of his ranch, where everyone seems to be doing well. but there's another city. >>> that speech from the 1984 democratic n

he's against common core, because jeb bush, they're trying to pin common core on jeb bush, one of besthings that jeb bush ever did. >> that is a fascinating distinction. he takes conservative positions, but he says believes in immigration reform. he respects people in same-sex marriages. it seems like he hayes beliefs, where romney is so versatile here, governor. let me get back to mike on this, so versatile that he can put on anything he has to put on, whatever apparel is necessary to the occasion, he's ready to switch. >> i think, chris, that is going to be the rub here. you've got two presidential candidates -- campaigns that predate this. you've got this now movement, if you will, in a new direction, so he's going to be buffeted by two competing interests. one is having to go back and explain. you've run the catalog. and then he's going to have to look to his right. he said he's going to run to the right of jeb bush and presumably rand paul that's going to be interesting in and of itself. so this is a campaign, while it is in its infancy, looks interesting, will be procedure proble

right now it is bad for jeb bush but let's see how romney does. people like john boehner and other republicans are not thrilled about it. >> people are going to start pointing out that romney was a horrible candidate in 2012 and hasn't done anything to make himself better. jeb bush is not the only one for whom the prospective entry of mitt romney changes the game. if both of them decide to run, the presence of these heavyweights would reshape the republican contest. the? question mark is, who would benefit, if anybody and who does it hurt? >> the big winner is chris christie. in a three-way race, two guys who cannot claim to be new, two guys who are not all that great with sharp elbows, christie sneaks up the middle. and this is not a guy who can sneak that easily. it hurts scott walker. i never thought scott walker could raise serious money. next i think there's a chance that it hurts christie because suddenly these donors who have concerns, because of bridgegate -- if they have to choose between romney and bush. >> chris christie knows how to ra

[applause] >> that is jeb bush on immigration.t know how much you have seen jeb bush do retail and crowd events. whether he has got good skills people are divided. when he puts his mind to it he is pretty darn good. >> one thing have i have been asking is has anyone ever seen him speak? most voters have not seen him on the national stage, actually listening to him and maybe have heard something about his education policies or common core or whatever. we need to see more of him. and i have no idea what his retail skills are like. we have to see that on the campaign trail sooner rather than later. what we do not want to have is the name jeb bush out there with nothing behind it. hopefully he is not a paper tiger and he can pull it off on the retail level. he has great retail skill. he does. it was an iffy question on skipping iowa. he may be should have gone. >> do you think jeb bush is making a mistake, even holding back having the strategy of doing fundraisers in a few public events. >> he is starting to. he is giving a big speech

here to sort of throw an elbow at those not here specifically the heavyweight establishment folks, jeb bush and mitt romney. give a listen. >> so you can't have romney. he choked. you can't have bush. the last thing we need is another bush. >> the seriousness of a donald trump candidacy, the crowd here peter, really liked his digs at romney and bush. >> yeah they totally ate it up which plays right into what we have been talking about for many months which is that iowa is going to be tough for mitt romney if he runs, and jeb bush if he runs. because there is such a vocal conservative electorate here. that doesn't mean there isn't space for those guys. remember mitt romney almost won iowa with about 30% of the caucus vote. but again, this is the conservative action in the republican party. the establishment action was actually last night in san francisco, where jeb bush was speaking to an auto dealer convention. and he actually talked about that meeting, that intriguing meeting he had with mitt romney in salt lake city a few days ago. this is what he said about that. >> i went to visit

obama takes names, jeb ups his game, and who is in and who is out in the hall of fame? but first, john boehner keeps his job. there was a surprisingly strong challenge to john boehner. a one-day blip or an omen of things to come? >> as we say in pong, blip. john boehner had his challenges. people on twitter and other places have said they would like to see him go. this was not his problem. he has other problems, but this is meaningless. >> i agree. it is a problem that is not going to define his speakership or ruin him. it is as much of a problem as it was before, except before he had to rely on democratic votes. now that republicans have all of congress -- >> all that matters is the next two years. the next two years, when boehner needs help, paul ryan, jeb hensarling, other conservatives will back him up. the whole thing is not on the president, but boehner and mcconnell taking risks. the two dozen who voted against him today will not matter. >> the responsibility will be more his watch than it was before. >> he is speaker and he recognizes that. he is not an angry gu

jeb's announcement generated more enthusiasm than i would guess jeb even expected it to. >> anna that you worked for it looks like jeb bush came out this week and the week before because he wanted to block mitt romney. mitt romney comes with these donors on friday and says, no, you're not blocking me yet. i'll look at this. i take nicolle's point that in the long run it may not determination the nomination but who locks up this money early does matter. >> george, what can i tell you? mitt happens. look, i don't think general was doing anything frankly to block mitt romney. i mean i can tell you i was surprised by romney's announce because i've heard him say a lot of times particularly in donors in florida and people in florida that he would not run if jeb was running. now, i think romney as a veteran, he's certainly got the experience. he's qualified. if he wants to run, he should look at it the same way that jeb and everybody else is looking at it. as a personal decision where he weighs the considerations and decides whether this is something he has. now, if that's what it's about, h

i say, i like jeb bush. i get boos from the audience. people who don't even know jeb bush. it's pretty intense. only a 19% favorable rating. >> it's a good reminder that enthusiasm from the donor class does not necessarily translate to enthusiasm from the general public or the idea that people would be interested in jeb bush because he's jeb bush or he or mitt romney would be energized just being having their names floated out there over the last couple of weeks. you look at these numbers and if you're -- i'll put his name out there again, chris christie or someone like that doesn't this encourage you to say the country is not excited about mitt romney who some people think is a retreader, or jeb bush either people don't know or think is george w. bush why wouldn't you jump in if you were chris christie? >> john, are you surprised by numbers? >> i'm more surprised by the jeb bush number than i am the mitt romney number. i think mika he's going through a little bit of the same thing as hillary clinton. they are much more -- when they are not seen as political figures and the

jeb bush will go up there. but i think today, rand paul is the most likely one to win. >> i will go back to strengths. i mentioned christie on the way in. he has a lot of problems, chris christie am a going into this. romney was thinking about some of the vetting they'd did for him in the vice presidential selection process. there are problems for chris christie. i just can't help but think he is looking at those donors who mitt romney would have locked up. he has got to be happy. >> jeb bush is going to get more of them. >> we have more to the poll, check it out on bloomberg politics. >> enough about mitt romney for today. this next topic is brought to you by money. from there. 28 of this year to october 1 there are five key deadlines for the fiscal fight they could get messy. last night, one of the huffington post most prominent blah bloggers, barack obama, wants to spend the money. he wants to jack of spending by 7%, make his case two houston mcbride's pre-is going to hate this? every republican. in these li

. >> jeb bush. his father was president bush, his brother was president bush, and now he wants to be president bush. >> we had enough bush's. >> sorry, mother, it's time for another. former florida governor jeb bush. >> give it up for judge mcintosh. >> i think there is a real strong consensus. you have the bush last night which is the bush last name. you have a lot of people thinking this is a consensus front runner. >> i'm really looking forward to sam taking my candidate. >> i kind of wanted sarah palin anyway. >> no, i don't have bush -- >> josh barro, use your technology from the "new york times," a fancy pants newspaper. >> i want the number one candidate, i will take number one. josh barro, a genius. number one is scott walker. >> scott walker. they call him mr. unrecallable. winner of three elections in four years, no matter how many staffers went to jail. he is wisconsin governor scott walker. >> that is big. that is big. scott walker right now i would like to say, we're having a scott walk

we talked to him about whether he would draw from the same donor class as jeb bush. >> i think jeb is an excellent person and would be a traffic president. i think that about a lot of people running on the republican side. among this people we will find someone who catches fire and ignites the interest of the republican base and someone who can go on to become president. that's why i said i'm not running, i'm not planning on running, and i've got nothing new on that story. >> all indications are he is serious about running. what does this mean about the guy without was a front runner jeb bush. >> nothing good. when you think about what he's done with these unexpectedly aggressive moves, it's mostly about tying up donors. it is mostly about money. mitt romney is, among all the potential establishment candidates, he's the only one that could freeze donors from going to bush. mitt romney's donors are very loyal. >> the silver lining to me for bush is if he wins the nomination fight he will have beaten other strong candidate and it will make him stronger and it will be a better story and

only 37% say the same thing for jeb bush. a new washington post/abc news poll finds both candidates fall short when paired against the likely democratic presidential nominee, hillary clinton. she has a 13-point lead over jeb bush and a 15-point lead over mitt romney. joining me now, msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson, and msnbc's steve karnacky. gene did you believe a word tom brady had to say today? >> not a whole lot. he's a michigan guy, i'm a michigan guy. so i have a certain sympathy for tom brady. you know belichick threw him under the bus. he apparently threw the equipment manager under the bus. we'll see what the equipment manager has to say. >> steve, when i was in high school, every time i had to throw or catch a football, the inflation mattered. you could tell how hard that thing was. it really matters. there's brady today trying to say, i couldn't tell the difference. >> the referee couldn't tell the difference, either. he touched the ball between each play and he didn't notice. >> on to the next matter, the

jeb bush is being judged as his father son and his brothers brother.hen actually he is neither of those. nobody knows him. in the movies they call it the reverse and revealed. that magic moment when you find out everything you think is true is not. the fat short guy is really the thin, tall one. that is what will happen with jeb bush. this is very different guy. >> a quick question. your friend mike murphy is orchestrating a strategy. he does an occasional youtube video but not a lot of public events. >> this will go on forever. if you are going out there and give your blood every day i do not think you will have much blood by the time this thing is over. jeb will raise a lot of money. a lot of this is the girl at the red dress at the end of the bar. you want to keep people hungry to know more about you. a little distance can be a good thing. >> marco rubio, he was the flavor of the week and he won the straw poll. are we reading too much because to your point, it is so early in the game? >> rubio is going to get a good ride. currently -- carly fiorina

jeb is not the guy according to you, joe? >> i'm not saying jeb is not the guy, but it is amazing to me again that republicans have a front runner whose daddy ran the country. i said this before, mike you almost jumped out of your chair when you heard me that mitt romney could have won it, six of the last seven republican nominees have gotten there because of their fathers. you had bush 41 whose father was a u.s. senator, bush 43 whose dad was a president. you of course have arizona's own john mccain whose dad helped run the u.s. navy. you had mitt romney whose dad ran michigan, one of the largest car companies in the world. there is no coincidence this is a republican party that seems stuck in the past, and now here we have a coronation supposedly for jeb bush, and i just think like mitt romney said in his statement, republicans are going to be looking for someone new. >> it is okay for the republicans to look for somebody kn new. nobody doesn't run if he thinks he is going to win -- >> he is ahead in every poll. >> but rudy

i'm jeb bush.'m better than you. >> it's not that i'm better. -- >> why do you go to san francisco and talk about how much more enlightened you are than what's going on in iowa? >> you can call it reality, enlightened. what jeb bush articulated may cost him the republican nomination but it doesn't make it untrue. >> you're missing my point. he doesn't have to do that. just like john mccain didn't have to go out of his way -- >> asked by the press his position on immigration by every journalist, you know that's the reality. >> there's a good way to do it and another way to do glit is would it have been better to spin the truth on immigration to be better liked in iowa? i applaud him for his courage. i applaud him for his position. i think until we can win with that message, we will lose the white house. >> we can win with that message. the question, again, mark happen prin, does he really need to go to san francisco and hold a speech talking about immigration immigration, just to show how much more

jeb bush definitely jeb bush definitely has the experience to be president.credibly strong economic record and he did exceptionally well with hispanics. hispanics. if you look at if you look at his second race for governor he got 14% with african-americans and he tied with women. those are those are all key constituencies that republicans need to do better better with. con con ser va tifts have some real cause for concern with his stance on stance on immigration and common core. it's his ability or it's his ability or inability to explain that to the explain that to the primary voter voter that will make or break the the candidacy. democrats have democrats have problems with -- >> hang in >> hang in there. i want to i want to bring mark in here. she brings up she brings up some important things. th if you get through a if you get through a primary as with jeb with jeb bush, he has a decent shot shot against hillary? >> no >> no kidding. i i have a lot of friends that are in the in the conservative movement and they all they all put their money on jeb bush bec

one of the candidates who was not there, ed, was jeb bush. at an event friday in california he said this about immigration. it tells you why he decided not to go to this event. >> we need to find a way, a path to legalized status for those that have come here and have languished in the shadows. there's no way that they're going to be deported. >> that's president obama's position. that's george w. bush's position. it used to be john mccain's position. can jeb bush sell that in today's republican paertd? >> been saying this for a while. i think we said it here before, that jeb bush is much more concerned and is looking to the general election, looking to the appeal to independents and maybe some democrats. he's less worried and concerned it seems about this early stuff. the question is, does that strategy work? there's a mixed bag on engaging or not engaging with iowa from the past few cycles. i look at it as kind of like members of the press. you know, somebody starts covering one story. we're not going to worry about that just yet. i guess w

he has is followed closely by jeb bush and along come others. we will just roll down the list here. you are kind of in the middle of the pack. one of the thing the polls says is more than half the people say they just need to know more about you. >> yes. >> schieffer: how do you fix that? let me ask you first, are you surprised that romney is at the top of this list? >> no. but first of all polls like this at this stage of an election are really nothing but a reflection of name recognition, those who have run for president or family members as president are doing well in a poll like that, but the bigger point is the one you raise look preseason polls in college football doesn't matter anymore what matters is who wins the final for a championship game now that they have a play-off system and that's going 0 to be the same here when running for president if i decide to run for president and very seriously thinking about it because of where our country is today, i am going to go out and run a campaign where i will explain to people, not only do i understand the national security threats