this is jefferson's home his entire life. jefferson is trying to use that plantation to make money. like most virginia plantation owners, he has cash crops, primarily tobacco and, later in his life, wheat. he has mixed success in turning a profit off of this plantation, but here on this mountaintop, this is also the center of his home life as well. throughout his retirement years, once the house is complete, this home is filled with his family members. his daughter, martha jefferson randolph, and her husband moved into this home, so this would have been a home filled with his family members as well as guests. throughout jefferson's retirement years, as a very public official and as somebody who gained fame for not only being president of the united states but being the man who wrote the declaration of independence, he would have hosted perpetual rounds of company here. guests would have come right here into this room, where we are right now, the hall. depending on who they were, they may have had to wait here to have a chance to see jefferson. we have a lot of accounts from those gu

the death of jefferson's daughter poly-. jefferson took the opportunity when he replied to remind abigail that he and john adams had a long friendship, in fact he wrote, we have never stood in one another's way. he also for the first time spoke explicitly about the midnight appointments that had divided the pair. i can say with truth that one act of mr. adams' life and one only gave me a moment of displeasure. i did consider his last appointments to office as personally unkind. they were from among my most political enemies from whom no faithful cooperation could ever be expected and laid me under the embarrassment of men whose views were to defeat mine. of the many of the thomas jefferson letters we hold this one reads definitely. often thomas jefferson comes across as a cool, reserved level-headed virginiian. here he's somewhat different, he's speaking to abigail as an intellectual equal and he's concerned about how politics may have ruptured his friendships. >> and cliff on this emnity or this frustration, i should call i

so thomas jefferson was his vice president. he and jefferson had a very severe rivalry development between them personally and between political parties and it's the first time we see the emerges of political parties in our country. >> so thomas jefferson in 1800 decide he want the top spot. >> you have the sitting president running against the sitting vice president. just think about the instability of that. you know, in some ways it did happen but it's an assassination incentive. person who's a heart beat away is vigorously opposed to the policies of -- of the number one person. these are people who worked together, adams and jefferson back in 1776. as cliff says in 1796 they run against each other but it's a relatively tame affair. jefferson tell the supporters, my term will come lets not bad mouth adams too much. but now politics have become much more intense. but with its political polarization you got the sitting president against the sitting vice president, both leading large camps, big political parties, as cliff said t

she has written numerous articles on jefferson and edited forthcoming reader on jefferson and rates which will be published by princeton university press. she also had had time to complete a short biography of andrew johnson which will be published in the fall of 2009. please join me in welcoming a net cord in reeves. [applause] >> thank you, very much for that introduction i love how he says that. [laughter] say it again. say it again. it is great to be here among some many people that i know. such a familiar place to me i came back to monticello and many times and it is always good to be here i've never been here when is raining. so, this is an interesting thing for me. a day that began at 4:00 a.m. this morning trying to get there quickly and taking off at 1:00 so i am just here and i am very happy to be here with you. i thought that i would talk a little bit about how i came to write this book. what the book is about an what it means to me. people who are familiar with my other work understand that my first interest in monticello was not really the hemming it was really jefferson. and

it was "jefferson." he was so enthusiastic about it that he suggested it should be distributed to every school child in kentucky. he was a foe of the new deal. he praised jefferson for attacking the powerful federal judiciary as a haven for monopolists and the exploiting classes. he saw the supreme court under the leadership of marshall as an instrument of centralization and marshall wrote to william johnson in 1823 that he feared no danger more than, quote, the consolidation of our government by the noiseless and, therefore, unalarming instrumentality of the supreme court. jefferson deployed marshall as crafty who sophisticates the law to miss own mind, construing our constitution to a general and supreme one alone. jefferson was a foe not of capitalist but of monopoly. and in his hate of monopoly, jefferson was not alone among the american founders. the boston tea party which sparked the american revolution was a rebellion against the monopoly held by the east india company. after the constitutional co

the first section ends with martha jefferson but it was an important change because jefferson decides to take a commission to france because his wife was ill. while he is living in different parts of virginia and richmond. it's what you would think of as the enslaved person. he leaves the continent altogether and the two younger daughters that was to have sister said so it is a genealogy going on and the family's life is transformed. it changes hands and here they were sure they would stay in one place but then that changes their life as well. this is when he's about to talk about at some point he finds out that there was a phrase that wasn't exactly true. but it was a place people could file petitions in the 18th was a century hundreds 18th century hundreds of people file petitionst there are e for freedom. the losing party had to pay for the case so you could see whats happens if you know it's going to be free no matter what. then they freed them on their own. to bring them into the world and see them not as a symbol of an abstract to talk about they in community. they couldn't have

jefferson at one point invites native american chiefs to the white house. typically that had happened before but he did something different. he invited the wives. many of the women in washington were insulted by that, the white women, because it put them on par with them. louisa is writing in her diary and says, what next, maybe the magnificent sally will make her appearance. >> oh. >> so there was a lot of bad blood between the two of them. >> wow. let me ask this question, and anybody jump in. can you tell us stories of first ladies who strongly influenced the flow of history, who had a huge impact on her husband's presidency and the direction that the country moved in her time? >> well, i could start with an influence that's a very interesting influence, elizaon son, the wife of andrew johnson, who is periodically listed as the worst -- or next to the worst president who ever lived. in the year that i wrote the little biography about him, he actually made it to being the worst, you know. so she taught him how to write. an jo andrewon s andrew johnson did

how about thomas jefferson? what do you think of thomas jefferson? do you like him? he was a major slave owner. >> joining me now, the member of the national board of directors of the naacp, and by phone, georgia state representative stacy abrams, candidate for georgia, who received hate tweets after calling for the removal of monuments. there are 718 monday utilities, ten major u.s. military bases named in honor of confederate military leaders. is that about heritage or something else? some some of this history, people are misappropriating. somebody said you can't challenge what you are unless you really repent. let's talk about the charlottesville monument. 80% of these monuments were erected between 1898 and 1920. they were erected to celebrate the deconstruction of reconstruction. they were erected to celebrate the separate but equal decision. in 1915, woodrow wilson kicked out civil rights leaders from his office. 1916, he played birth of a nation in the oval office. and that sent word to white supremacist that's they had a friend in the oval office. and that st

of poems anonymously about thomas jefferson and sally hemings. and when jefferson is retiring, one to the toon of yankee doodle and others that aspired to be more classical. he wrote them like classical poems. when jefferson is leaving office, he runs into madison at the festivities, and he goes up and says, i want to thank you for coming. i just want to know, are you writing any more poetry these days? john quincy adams puts it in his diary and underlines poetry because jefferson knows, even though it was anonymous, who did it. and this was his dig at him and john quincy got the message. >> if it is any consolation, john quincy adams' wife had a lot of difficulty with him and also had a lot of difficulty with their children. one son was an opium addict, who fathered an illegitimate child with a chamber maid. the other confessed to his mother that he had purient interests so he went to prostitutes. there's a karma there. >> there's another story about louisa and sally hemmings. jefferson at one point invites native american chiefs to the white ho

that's the one reason that jefferson comes to loathe and hear jefferson and he has a weak, thin voice he's envious of henry's great, rhetorical power and fears his political power, as well. more importantly, i think, perhaps this revival provided a political vocabulary or lexicon words like liberty and christ and the tyranny of the sin, flesh and the devil. the virtue of the saints. each of these religious terms is going to take on an additional political meaning in later decades, and one clear example, this is jonathan mayhugh. we already looked at one of his pieces under dr. drystock's impetus. in a sermon preached by mayhugh in 1766 after the repeal of the stamp act called the snare broken. the thanksgiving discourse, and the reverend jonathan mayhugh began by saying that we exercise that liberty where with christ has made us free being desirous that all other persons and churches should do the same and not choosing that either they or we should be, quote, entangled with any yolk of bondage, closed quote. so if you have even a passing familiarity with the bible, you can hear that m

he called on jefferson president jefferson davis -- he called on president jefferson davis as support -- davis for support and jefferson said stay. another confederate commander was sent by davis to look into the situation and what should be done, and johnston said, it would be a mistake to release bragg. he infected so much damage comparative -- comparatively with few resources, it would be desirable to sacrifice him. so, bragg knew by this time that the president was his supporter, and he knew that joseph johnson was his supporter. many people believe that davis supported bragg because they were personal friends, as stephen which worth pointed out and is very evident. they do not have a personal friendship at this time. jefferson davis, more than once, clearly said in a letter why i support bragg? i admire his administrative talents. even though he may not be the best general on the battlefield, i don't know who else is better. until somebody better comes along, he should stay where he is. that is the truth of the matter in terms of the davis/bragg relationship. as i said it went do

there's a statue of thomas jefferson. there's a statue of georgia washington. you would expect that. they're founding fathers. but there's also a statue of the president of the confederacy in would be jefferson davis, across the hall there's alexander hamilton stevens the vice president of the confederacy, one level below in the crypt of the united states capitol. robert e. lee across the way from him, john ccalhoun, a major force on the side of the confederacy, leading up to t war. so the call for these removals of these statues is complicated. jim and shawn, every state is allowed to place two statues into the united states capitol, as part of the united states capitol statuary hall collection. however, it is up to those states to decide who they select. now, states can put a statue in, they can take a statue out. they can only have two at one time. so it is not quite clear now, if congress itself can actually force a state to remove a one of its statues. interestingly enough, only a couple of years ago, president obama was here when they placed the statue of

by the way, i say the congress and not jefferson, because jefferson's original draft contained only onen fact, explicit -- bless you -- reference to the diety to nature's god. the other three were -- it's hard to tell the writing in the manuscript, but someone, either jefferson himself, or more likely franklin, thought a reference to the creation in jefferson's very first draft ought to be made explicit. jefferson had originally written all men are created equal and from this equal creation, men derive rights. somebody, i think it's franklin, suggests talk about the creator instead of talking sort of in the back door, bringing god in the back door of talking about creation. so that is the very first change. but the draft as it goes from the drafting committee to the congress had two references only to the diety and those at the beginning. and i think that the other language in there, we think of the declaration of springing sort of fully formed from jefferson's brain, but it didn't happen that way. perhaps 85 changes made to that draft. i'm going to be calling the cont ne nental congres

right behindents, the jefferson davis monument is the word love. there needs to be a sort of text associated with the monuments. the jefferson davis monument in richmond, virginia, make no reference to slavery. him as aabout defender of constitutionalism and the rights of states. idea of slavery having anything to do with the civil war. up, righthis was put at the turn of the 20th century, slavery was being erased from the memory of the civil war. now we know more, and that is the kind of contextualization that invites discussion, not just a yes or no discussion to remove a statue. host: (202) 748-8001 for republicans. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 748-8002 for independents. our guest is al brophy, university of alabama school of law. moore, illinois. you're up first. caller: good morning. i agree with the professor that this should be a contextual issue. that is the point. this problem and the reason so many people voted for trump, including myself, was the fact that i grew up with affirmative action. to give pay a price reparations to peopl

glass with an outside area overlooking the capital in the jefferson library of congress. it is the spot to go. >> that building, the james madison building is the only official memorial to james madison in the capital and the jefferson building named for thomas jefferson sold his collection to congress after the british came. that is why this thing -- all is forgiven now. the british burned the capital, the library of congress within the capital. >> are we over that? >> not yet. there is a fireplace in the capital said that the british used some books from the library of congress to start the fire and you can see -- that is something but we are trying. >> talk about those treasures, the ceremonial office in the jefferson building in beautiful ceremonial office, the story there. >> the madison building opened in 1980 and that is where the office went. the working office. the jefferson building that opened in 1897, first building in washington dc to have electricity, when you visit and we also have a virtual tour on our website to visit where we are you see the light fixtur

and jefferson wants people to come to this capitol building. he himself said wherever the people are well informed, they can be trusted with their own government. this chamber began functioning for the senate in 1906. and continues functioning today. there is an original 1906 wooden dais center stanley cup with ge working staff and the lieutenant governor who provides over our senate and the members of the senate have a four year term and eligibler for re-election and they each represent upwards of 200,000 constituents per senator. and one of the interesting features of our general assembly which dated back to 1619 is that it has always been been conscious design a part-time legislature. this chamber in terms of its visual presentation takes you back about a hundred years to the beginning of the 20th century. but in terms of its on going function, it is a valid place every single year when the lawmakers come to do the public business. and i am remembering that we had, in this chamber, lieutenant governor by the name of lawrence douglas wilder w

the primary author of the capitol was thomas jefferson. when we were getting ready to break ground for a new public building in richmond in 1785 jefferson had left state service and was our american ambassador to france. he was living in paris. nonetheless, richmond authorities reached out to jefferson in 1785 asking for his help as an absentee advocate for a properly designed capitol building. he turned to the architecture of antiquity. he was fascinated by the temples of greece and rome. in paris he was able to meet and collaborate with a professional french architect who was a published authority on roman antiquities. they got]a+z together, and i lio think of jefferson as the author of our original capitol building and the architect as the editor. they looked to a building in the south of france. when jefferson was planning the virginia state capitol to look like a classical monumental roman temple, he followed the advice of people who studied the architecture of antiquity and he put the capitol on top of a major hill. it became, by des

and the jefferson building named after thomas jefferson who sold his. it's the exhibit about the two georges all is forgiven now. the library of congress was in the capital. they said the british use of some of the books from the library of congress to start thy fire. that's kind of something that we are trying.e trea >> there's the beautiful ceremonial office you have so in the madison building that opened up in 1980 and that's where the library and office went. it's the wonderful librarian's office and it is like a little box so we opened up for the public and you will see a door that in 1975. he saw the door and tried to open it. a key then behind the wooden door is a bank vault door. that is something and no one knew the combination. the legend goes a certain gentleman that had those skills poem [laughter] was excused for a short period of time.e. [laughter] to open the safe and when they opened it there was only onene thing in it, a small black box and when he opened the box, there was a letter and its head these are the contents tonight he was ass

jefferson's party had won.scholarships didn't even do any research on hamilton until the civil war, when the north discovered that their system worked because of hamilton and so he got put on the two dollar bill, and because of the play now he stays on the ten dollar billing. that's strange, the symbolism and power. this war of 1812 we didn't win. andrew jackson won and so the attention was on andrew jackson, the big winner. john quincy adams was booed out of the movie athlete temperatures by jackson and his supporters because we came out of it -- henry clay said we need three more years as war to uphold our honor and americans that hat attitude when it was ol', holding our honor, our honor is warlike. from that time on we fight the indians, facts the mexicans, fight -- the soldiers of the war of 1812 were the generals of the mexican war, and the civil war. so i think the country changed once it got its true independence. it became measure more, i would say, like the british, military, commercial, and on the ma

jeffersons party had won.cholars didn't even do any research on hamilton until the civil war when the north discovered that the system worked because of hamilton and so we got put on the two-dollar bill. and because of the plaintiff he stays on the ten-dollar bill. it's strange, the symbolism in ththe power of this. the war of 1812, we didn't win. andrew jackson one. and so the attention was on andrew jackson. he was the big winner. a man who negotiated the peace, john quincy adams, was booed out of the movie theaters by jackson and his supporters. because we came out to become henry clay said we need three more years of war to uphold our honor. americans i think had that attitude when it was all over. we have held our honor. our honor is warlike. from that time on we find the indians. we fight the mexicans. we fight, the soldiers of the war of 181 1812 where the geners of the mexican war and the civil war. i think the country changed once again it's true independence. he became much more i would say like the

by the way, i say the congress and not jefferson because jefferson's original draft contained only one, in fact -- bless you -- explicit reference to the diety to nature's god. somebody thought the implicit reference to the creation ought to be explicit. so the implicit ought to be made explicit. jefferson had originally written all men are created equal and from this equal creation men derive rights. somebody, i think it's franklin, suggests talk about the creator instead of sort of in the back door -- bringing god in the back door talking about creation. so that is the first change. but the draft as it goes from the drafting committee to the congress had two references only to the dity and only those at the beginning. i think the other language in there, we do think of the declaration as sort of springing forward from jefferson's brain brrn but it didn't happen that way. perhaps some 85 changes made to that draft. so i'm going to be calling the continental congress the true maker of the declaration of the independence. i want to focus my remarks on the last two nonjeffersonian refere

you talk about jefferson andyoud washington. that is a totally different subject. what they are talking about is celebrating and honoring people who were murdering people because they were property. celebrating rape, murder, kidnapping, extortion, it continues because we celebrate it. from the south. my family owned slaves. and i thinkud of it they ought to be taken down. when a kid has to walk by it and look at i think they ought to be taken down. i think it is terrible when a kid has to walk by it and look at it, and they honor this guy who is celebrating racism, not just racism, slavery. i think it is for rent this. -- horrendous. i really do. host: we will let our guest response. guest: i respect that opinion. i think stephanie from california had a similar argument. i understand that. this is a decision that should be made by the local community. if they decide to take these monuments down, they should have the power to do that. i respect that decision. i think there is a significant danger that by taking them down we erase the memory of the era of jim crow. w

so jeffersons actions would not surprise them. with that human nature that they would have predicted by 1787. >> exactly right one common trait of the founding fathers is idolatry or worshiping george washington . they loved him almost uniformly. they knew he was destined to be the first president of the united states it was almost a foregone conclusion paillette they wrote article to with first president of washington in mind because they understood the concept that madison explained so well that government provides a deep insight into human nature of the access to angell's they could govern over us so we have to rely on the strict rules so it cannot be abused. >> celebrating error is the idea he is attacking jefferson to interfere with a the prosecution but obviously to day there is a debate going on with the president interfering with law-enforcement investigation but do you think that the former director would testify that the president ordered him to drop day curdle prosecution? so if you think about what you celebrate about.

and, again, bragg brought in jefferson davis to support him. the result was that bragg won the revolt against him by his generals. in october 1863, they mounted a major effort to get him ousted. he survived that. but it was a victory for bragg. because he had very few vocal supporters. he was exhausted physically. healthwise, he was almost a wreck. and the result was he lost control of a strategic situation, badly lost the battle of chattanooga in late november and finally offered his resignation. davis finally said yes. in december '62, he's out. after resting, davis appointed him to what many people considered to be a higher position in the confederate army. military adviser to the president in richmond. and as military adviser bragg served davis 100% faithfully. so much so that he basically stabbed joseph e. johnson in the back and helped to get joseph johnson relieved as commander of his old army, the army of the tennessee, in the middle of the atlantic campaign in july of '64. bragg's attitude was i work for the president, not for joseph j

collection are the statues of georgia washington and thomas jefferson. obviously, they're founding fathers of this country but it is a fact they're also slave owners. and the wake tonight of president trump's statement yesterday that if you remove confederate statues you would then, in turn, have to remove st jefferson, there is push-back in this city tonight from academic historian, one of them dr. michael ride points out there's a difference between founding fathers and southern rebels. >> thomas jefferson and george washington helped to create a nation. stonewall jackson and robert e. lee tried to split a nation. and so the comparison sort of in there, and president trump not really knowing history, perhaps as he should, got that wrong as he has many other things as it relates to this issue. >>reporter: this video we shot today, among these dozen statues that are inside the u.s. capitol building, there are statues of the president of the confederacy jefferson davis, there are also statues of the vice president of the confederacy, alexander hamilton st

i'm at the university founded by thomas jefferson.e in a building on the lawn where i witnessed the outrage of the neo-nazis last friday night, in a building designed by thomas jefferson. how do we deal with this complicated legacy? we honor, as mr. grossman suggested, thomas jefferson's tremendous accomplishments, author of the declaration of independence, founder of the university, author of the declaration of religious freedom, louisiana purchase. we could go on and on. i think that balances in some way the unfortunate part of his legacy about slavery. we certainly do not support that. but john, we are building a monument to enslaved laborers right here. we have a dormitory named after enslaved laborers. we are doing things that matter. but this is more false equivalency from president trump. just as he falsely equated the neo-nazis with those showing up to protest their fascism, so too is he trying to make equivalent robert e. lee with thomas jefferson or george washington and mr. grossman just explained it is outrageous and wrong

who loves jefferson. he was contradictory. he was totally contradictory. he seems to have been very committed to his own pleasures and desires and books and ideas. he was insatiable in his desire for knowledge. he was constantly building. you are reminding me of another story i heard recently in a social gathering and that was that there was someone who went to monticello and visited the house and climbed up -- there was a dome on top of the house and he climbed up to the top of the dome and in that dome was sally hemming's bedroom. it was high above everything else. it was only accessible to jefferson. and for me that's an architectural symbol of some of the contradictions that he seems to have harbored at the same time. he took pleasure from the flesh of african-americans, both carnal pleasure and economic pleasure, but he would not allow that african-americans had intelligence or had -- or had righ rights. so for me his attitude, his dismissive attitude toward phyllis wheatley is not really a surpris s

michelle: trump pointed out that both george washington and thomas jefferson had slaves. alison: as you can imagine, a lot of reaction from the president's bombshell comments. we want to hear yours. go to wjla.com the live results. we went out to let them show to people video the press conference in case they had not seen it earlier. we wanted to take the pulse in d tonight.c. -- take the pulse tonight in d.c. tom roussey is live with what he found tonight. tom: a lot of reaction, as you can imagine. on your screen, a lot of these comments are coming from the folks who live in the building behind me, but a lot of other folks reacting as well to what the president said. >> george washington was the founder of the nation. >> the director of the naacp's washington bureau called this moment disturbing. >> i wonder, is a george washington next week and thomas jefferson the week after? tom: he said there is no comparison with the statues of robert e. lee and confederates. >> t the country. most would be considered traitors under today's law. >> this is not leadership. this is n

but jefferson davis was -- was the last southern senator to leave washington, d.c. he was not a fire eater, in fact, most of the men who who would assume high position in new confederate government first that montgomery later ed richmond that was their capitol throughout most of the war richmond, virginia were moderates were men who had a lot of seasoning and experience in national government and one by or the other. and they were ones who were of the confederate people and at home and abroad. >> did jefferson davis had any relationship with abraham lincoln? >> yes but davis did not have -- a -- there has been a lot written about lincoln and right now i cannot recall if they had ever met. i doubt it. i doubt that they have ever met, and, but jefferson davis vice president alexander stevens of georgia who is not a fire eat per either had a friendship with abraham lincoln when lincoln served as a congressman in, from 1846 to 1848 and they were friends, and lincoln wrote a letter to him. jefferson, i mean, alexander stevens wrote a letter to abraham lincoln while linco

how about thomas jefferson? what do you think of thomas jefferson? do you like him? okay. good. are we going to take down the statue because he was a major slave owner. so you know what? it's fine. you're changing history, you're changing culture and you had people and i'm not talking about the neo nazis and the white nationalists because they should be condemned totally but you had many other people in that group and the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. >> first as a historian, your reaction to those comments? >> it's kind of stunning to watch this. it's also for many americans upsetting to watch this. obviously washington and jefferson were slave owners, but here we're talking about a leader of the confederate forces trying to destroy the union to protect the slave owning society versus george washington, the person who tried to build our e republic and the monuments were built in the 1910s to '30s period. >> what does that tell us? >> these were monuments meant as a backlash to the idea of racial justice and racial integration. that's w

he is the great great grandson of jefferson davis and is the president of the jefferson davis foundation for being with us. >> thank you for inviting me, ali. >> did i get it right? you're the great, great grandson? >> that's correct. >> okay. so your foundation promotes education around jefferson davis and around southern culture. now, back in 2015 you ended up supporting the removal of the confederate flag from the statehouse in south carolina, the south carolina state capitol. you told news week, and i'm quoting here the battle flag is an historic symbol of a implicate and should be appropriately displayed in museums as such, but it isn't something that i think demands any public display. do those wise words hold when it comes to statues? >> well, there's almost the same in one respect they're different. the battle flag that you're speaking of has been high jacked by the racist groups and portrays a whole different society that neither one of us would appreciate or even agree to. the monuments, however, represent something a little bit different in my viewpoint. they are representativ

thomas jefferson owned slaves. we remove all statues of timer says jefferson?university removing christopher columbus after protest. there is statues all over the united states including a special part. should we remove all of those? we are getting into very slippery slope territory here. you cannot embrace history. we can do is let people have their free speech. lauren: that's one of the points they made yesterday kristen come amy. thanks for waking up with us. cheryl: we are going to switch gears now. cheryl: now they are getting enough help from federal investigators. we'll explain that one for you. strong storms in the midwest and hurricane sent to causing riptides on the east coast. you are watching "fbn:am." ♪ down on the corner, out on the street ♪ ♪ cameras. introducing the newly redesigned gla suv. at a price that'll make you feel like you've gotten away with something. the 2018 gla. lease the gla250 for $359 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing. my "business" was going nowhere... so i built this kickin' new we

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there i'll tell you i posed question on twitter and facebook about jefferson memorial. as we see on social media responses are a lot more heated and filled with a lot more anger and intensity rally on both side. but i still love to hear what you have to say i always read the comments. we love to have the conversation and continue on social after the show. back to you sarah and shawn. >> emotional for sure. >> thank you ronica. >> i think people get fired up and it seems like lately we've been talking about this more and it's been a discussion ongoing for a long time. it just came to a head again after the situation in charlottesville and sort of reignited that conversation. people were called fired up about it. >> it get -- you know i'm like people are back here again talking about this and hitting each other's or butting each other's heads looking for answers. >> frustrating. >> i hope we can get to answers and resolution so we can move forward. let's get answers about the weather forecast. today, hot and steamy. >> yes. >> again sarah? >> free conas get the pores open

washington and jefferson? washington and jefferson, the first and third presidents preserved the union. they didn't try to take the union down and divide it and end it. and that's exactly what the confederacy tried to do to the union over four years. it was the most horrible war we've ever fought in. more americans died in that war than all the others fought together. if you look at the films of ken burns, ken says for the great majority of all the films he's made, race is at the center of it. so for the president not to show moral leadership, he's abdicating the clear responsibility he has to all of us to lead us to a better place and he's leading us to a worse place this week. >> i think ken is right. he's abdicated his moral leadership but we can't wait. i can tell you we are not going to wait. we're working with business executives. we're working now with mayors and have big news coming out on that front. interfaith clergy, other nonprofits, the country can't wait for a president who just doesn't seem to g

the second question about jefferson davis and lee being in -- did lee have any leeway, so to speak. it's often portrayed that when lee writes his very famous september 3 drainsville letter to jefferson davis saying i'm going to cross the potomac river, that lee then continues to move forward with his invasion of maryland in the first place even without receiving permission from jefferson davis. it's not exactly the case. lee and davis had been talking about this for quite some time and the confederacy has been talking about a movement into maryland for quite some time, even going back to the fuall of 1861. even before stonewall jackson was stonewall jackson, when he was thomas jackson at harper's ferry, he does have troops technically on maryland migheig. now robert e. lee did not put much stock in the fact that marylanders were going to rise up by the thousands and join the army but he knew that was the aim of the confederacy to throw the yolk of yankee oppression, as lee called it, off of maryland and bring maryland into the folds of the confederacy so lee, he did have leeway in t