the battle between lugar and jesse helms is an interesting one. it has been something that has shaped lugar career in a very interestingly. >> john, talk about the political vulnerability of foreign relations chairman. you mentioned that other than jesse helms, could you go onto a little detail on that? >> yes. it is a committee that -- that has been politically difficult to be on. in fact, lugar, i remember when i first interviewed him, no one has a thorough grasp of the political vulnerabilities of the senate foreign relations committee like dick lugar. from william fulbright, frank church, there is just a whole slew of people on the foreign relations committee. it is something that he is committed to. one of the chapters is goaltending on the homefront. i described how the senator is trying to keep his political strength at home solid to allow him to work on foreign-policy issues. he does a lot of things to try to connect the world of foreign policy to the likes of indiana. specifically he speaks loud and works a lot on trade issues, which is a

the battle between lugar and jesse helms is an interesting one. it has been something that has shaped lugar career in a very interestingly. >> john, talk about the political vulnerability of foreign relations chairman. you mentioned that other than jesse helms, could you go onto a little detail on that? >> yes. it is a committee that -- that has been politically difficult to be on. in fact, lugar, i remember when i first interviewed him, no one has a thorough grasp of the political vulnerabilities of the senate foreign relations committee like dick lugar. from william fulbright, frank church, there is just a whole slew of people on the foreign relations committee. it is something that he is committed to. one of the chapters is goaltending on the homefront. i described how the senator is trying to keep his political strength at home solid to allow him to work on foreign-policy issues. he does a lot of things to try to connect the world of foreign policy to the likes of indiana. specifically he speaks loud and works a lot on trade issues, which is a

i will say i also spent times writing about the senator's relationship with jesse helme, which has banned a difficult one. luker was the chairman of the foreign relations committee for an 85 to 87 when the republicans won control, helme used his seniority to take control of the chairmanship, and effectively forcing luker into the second ranking position and it was at that point you back to agriculture. the battle between luker and homes is an interesting one and it's been something that is shaped luker's career. >> john, talk about the vulnerability of foreign relations chair. you mentioned other than jesse holmes, why don't you go into a little detail on that? >> it is a committee that has been politically difficult to beyond. in fact, when i first interviewed them, no one has a photograph of the political vulnerability is the chairman of the senate foreign relations committee than dick lugar. he knows the history and from william fulbright who i mentioned earlier, frank church, there's just a whole slew of people in the foreign relations committee. charles percy who lost the position. s

i was involved campaign against senator jesse helms when i was in college. when i cannot hear, and was not initially involved politically. -- when i came out here, i was not initially involved politically. i helped to build the lgbt community center. i started doing campaigns. i gradually got involved in democratic party politics. i got involved in the alice b. toklas democratic club. i ran for the democratic central committee in 2004. i ended up sharing the committee. it was a gradual process for me. by the time i started thinking about running for supervisor, it made sense because of my involvement in the community and in politics. >> what did you learn from campaigning for supervisor? >> i learned a lot. i knocked on about $15,000. -- i knocked about 15,000 doors. i met a huge number of people. that is the best way to learn about the neighborhood, the city, and what people want and what their concerns are. i feel i can do so much more than before and started campaigning. -- i feel like i know so much more than before i started campaigning. we're all part

c-span: another senator, a republican by the name of jesse helms is from that state. for purposes of our discussion, what's the difference between southerner jesse helms and southerner strom thurmond? >> guest: let me start with what i think is something important, and it has to do with the men's backgrounds. senator thurmond has had a 65-year public career. this is a man who loves politics -- who lives, sleeps, eats and breathes it. he ran for his first office when he was 26 years old, superintendent of the edgefield county schools, state senator, judge, governor, united states senator. his entire life has been out among people as a politician. i don't use that word pejoratively, but listening to people, talking to people, feeding off of that. if my memory is correct, senator helms was a strategist, a first in the political scene in the '50s working on a senate campaign. he was also a radio broadcaster and then stepped into politics. to me, that's important they have different backgrounds. one who, by the time senator helms won for the senate -- i believe it was 1972

they were john kerry and jesse helms. talk about your odd bedfellows. they hardly ever agreed, but they worked very hard on this issue, and they, in fact, got a positive vote from the u.s. senate saying that the president is wrong. there isn't any progress being made on the war on drugs in panama. the house also voted on this, but too late to actually reverse the president's decision. but again, a lot more publicity was being given to what's wrong in panama. because of that publicity and because new people were coming forward in panama, including some former assistants and associates of noriega, verifying all the things that hirsh said, all the things that were testified to on capitol hill, the people of panama began to demonstrate against the regime. there were riots in panama, and noriega brutally put them down. that was a turning point. after that the reagan administration began to impose sanctions against the panamanian regime and early in 1988, two district attorneys, one in tampa and one in miami, indicted noriega, one for drug trafficking, one fo

senate when i was there, to stick it in jesse helms i believe it was his earthy phrase, and he got to know jesse and after a year jesse and wellstone were sponsoring legislation together. there is some softening agents in there, but they are not like they were before. the softening agents in the senate are not there, the sharp edge people are there. and then you have a couple leaders you know, you've got harry and mitch and they are both a cupful prize fighters and they love the ring. they are good at it. and they know how to hold their troops. you can tell one of your member you mess around too much with the other guy they are going to make you the chairman of the journal committee. or the ranking member. >> you don't sound that optimistic. do you think that these issues are going to be addressed and solved particularly in the u.s. senate with the rules as they are right now? >> that things can be soxed with the rules the way they are now. >> basically 60 votes to get anything done. >> the hold, dole and i finally said we're not going to go for that. we didn't have to have a written

>> stephanie: maybe they use that like the old jesse helms ad.ou. >> you do remember your father's republican party! the jesse helms and these folks these are the people now they are all that is left. if bob bennett in utah andorran hatch by the way who still has a primary. orrin hatch has not survived. >> stephanie: no, he's not conservative enough. that's right, we said that orrin hatch is not conservative enough in 2012. >> if you can wrap your mind around that, then you understand how bad the situation is. >> stephanie: what does this portend for 2012 between now and what happened in north carolina. >> north carolina is an outlier. what was going on was the kind of demagoguing -- it is 33 out of 34 times when gay marriage has been defeated. didn't matter if bill clinton did robo calls and explained it had nothing to do -- how many times can you say something is illegal? it was already illegal. but that's never the point. this is about what karl rove said in 2004. you put these things on the ballot, they were on 12 ballots in 2004. that tipped

you had the southern strategy the willie horton ad with ron gant, and jesse helms. problem here for republicans is they were called out on it. and i think mitt romney really had a moral leadership opportunity here and he ended up using it for political purposes to turn around and make a political attack on the president. he really should have stood out there and not only condemned it, but just left it at that, but then he used it to try to gain political points with the president. and we have seen this time and time again where he hasn't stood up to the extreme wings of his party as he should have. >> doug i disagree. i think he did everything he needed to do. everything in a campaign is political. i think mitt romney did what he did, and did what he needed to do and got out of there. >> let me ask you this, though. doug, do you worry that somebody else -- cory in a sense that this is not what politics should be. >> yeah. >> do you think somebody else might pick up this -- this issue? will fred davis take this memo now and somebody else will say i like this line of

after all, i think about jesse helms' ad with the white hands crumbling the paper saying you want thatve to it a minority. you think back to willie horton and some other things taking place. ronald reagan holding his kickoff event in mississippi. those are all very understated signals. what you have with the reverend wright controversy attempting to resurrect that, it is an air raid siren. a call to arms. the problem i see with that is it would turn off moderates and people who don't really want to know that they're voting for a racist. they respond to these code words but they don't really want to go out and know that somebody is actually using this as a wedge issue. >> joe, mitt romney, he did issue a mild rebuke to the group that attempted to revive reverend wright. he has been more selective when it comes to other supporters who endorse this line of attack. donald trump, for example. we were about him a few minutes ago. a dinner with donald. the prize in a romney campaign contest. how come mitt romney hasn't rebuked donald trump yet? why is he going to stand with him on tuesday and

senate who was there when i was there who said "stick it in jesse helms."after a year, it they were sponsoring legislation together. there are some softening agents in there. they are not likely where they were before. the softening agent in the senate are not there. the sharp edge people are there. then you have a couple of leaders. you have here and mitch -- harry and mitch. they love the ring. they know how to hold their turf. if you mess around too much around with the other guy, and they will make you the chairman of the journal committee. or the ranking member. [laughter] >> you do not sound all that optimistic. do you think that these issues will be addressed in the fall, personally in the u.s. senate? >> that things can be solved with the way they are now? >> dole finally said that we will not go with that. first, i've got to have this. we cannot give you that. we will give it to you in six months. get that thing off of here. we have legislation. they are here to do fund- raisers. we would have night where we cannot get a quorum because they were ra

senate who was there when i was there who said "stick it in jesse helms." after a year, it they were sponsoring legislation together. there are some softening agents in there. they are not likely where they were before. the softening agent in the senate are not there. the sharp edge people are there. then you have a couple of leaders. you have here and mitch -- harry and mitch. they love the ring. they know how to hold their turf. if you mess around too much around with the other guy, and they will make you the chairman of the journal committee. or the ranking member. [laughter] >> you do not sound all that optimistic. do you think that these issues will be addressed in the fall, personally in the u.s. senate? >> that things can be solved with the way they are now? >> dole finally said that we will not go with that. first, i've got to have this. we cannot give you that. we will give it to you in six months. get that thing o we have legislation and we are here to legislate they are here to do fund- raisers. we would have night where we cannot get a quorum be

a lot of sort of nibbling around the edges, remember the michael dukakis ad remember the famous jesse helmsu wanted that job but they gave it to a minority. this is right out in the open. a blunder bust shot that i don't think the american people would necessarily accept and embrace. >> bill: 1-866-55-press is our toll free number to join the conversation here with joe williams. and of course, they say that while they know they may be accused of being racist. what they're going to do is they're going to recruit and this is their words "an extremely literate conservative african-american who can front this campaign for them." and they're talking to larry elder, talk show host out in los angeles. >> no surprise there. larry elder has been a constant voice on the right debunking just about everything that the liberal african-american community stands for. and it's -- to me, the big picture on that one is that this is the height of cynicism. if there is a word beyond cynicism, i would use it. i don't think there really is. it is quite cynical. it is quite deplorable on a number of levels. i don

senate who was there when i was there who said "stick it in jesse helms." after a year, it they were sponsoring legislation together. there are some softening agent in there. they are not lely where they were before. the softening agent in the senate are not there. the sharp edge people are there. then you have a couple of leaders. you have here and mitch -- harry and mitch. they love the ring. they know how to hold their turf. if you mess around too much around with the other guy, and they will make you the chairman of the journal committee. or the ranking member. [laughter] >> you do not sound all that optimistic. do you think that these issues will be addressed in the fall, personally in the u.s. senate? >> that things can be solved with the wayhey are n? >> dole finally said that we will not go with that. first, i've got to have this. we cannot give you that. we will give it to you in six months. get that thing off of here. we have legislation. they are here to do fund- raisers. we would have night where we cannot get a quorum because they were raising