jha. so jha: again, thank you much for having the on today. this is a very difficult moment for our country. moste in the middle of the important and substantial pandemic in a century. i believe that our country has all of the capacity, all of the capability, and all of the innovative energies needed to overcome these challenges. what has been clear to me from the beginning of this pandemic is that it will only happen if we can truly marshall all the forces of this country across the political divide. clear to me as a public-health person, as a physician who has spent his life taking care of veterans in the v.a., and as a public health person who has studied these issues, that the fundamental strategy for getting us through this until we have a vaccine requires focusing on testing, on tracing, on isolation, maintaining a certain amount of social distancing. if we do all of that, we can get our economy going again, and we can do it safely so that we prevent deaths and have economic activity. to me, that is not a partisan issue. to suggest that

jha was talking about. dr.ottlieb has written about ways to bring technology in to accelerate the availability of testing. i agree that can help. i want to highlight a few other ways that we can make the tests go as far as possible because right now they are not , distributed evenly, we are not testing everyone that the cdc recommends for, testing for symptoms, testing for asymptomatic settings, surveillance, but there is more we can do. one thing is to take further steps to create financial incentives for better and more testing. that includes steps like cms has taken recently in steps congress has taken. i think we can do more. pay more for tests that get better results faster. pay more for tests connected to interoperability. that is important for enabling rapid responses. to encouragesteps participation by health care organizations and working with that public health system. it is very stressed right now. most states and local governments are collaborating with health care providers including frontline prim

ashish jha. we will talk about a number of things, including trump's claims that he is taking hydroxychloroquine and the u.s. reopening even as covid-19 cases are on the rise in t the united states. and we will look globally at the pandemic. stay with us. ♪ [music break] amy: : yo yo ma and angelique kidjo singing "blewu" together alone. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. i am amy goodman here in new york city, juan gononzalez is joining us from his home in new jersey. opsthe covid-19 atath toll 90,000 iththe united s stas, present trumclaimed nday heas been king the anti-marial dr hydroxhloroqui, even tugh muiple stues show e drug can be dangerous and is not effective in treating covid-19. pres. trump: good things have come out about the hydroxy. a lot of good things have come out. you would be surprised at how many people are taking it, especially the frontline workers -- before you catch it. the frontline workers. many, many are taking it. i happened to be taking

jha, i want to put the map up on the screen. so people can see where the virus and the pandemic is trending in the united states. you can see in red, in orange, the 14 states where the case number, the daily new cases are trending up, beige where it is steady and green where it is decreasing. it is notable that in the areas that have been hardest hit, new york, new jersey, connecticut, massachusetts, it is trending downward and some of the areas where it is trending up in the south, particularly alabama and arkansas, more than 50% of the number of daily new cases. it is interesting to me, dr. jha, that the prime modeler out of university of washington overnight decreased its projections for the number of deaths. i'm not as interested in what is going to happen as what they say is happening right now. they say that the increased mobility as the stay-at-home orders have been relaxed, the increased mobility has not led to as much of an increase in daily new cases as they thought. that's interesting. i'm wondering why you think that

jha was talking about to fight for the end of the ebola crisis. and were very valuable as an instrument ultimately in that fight. that could happen here again around vaccines, around research, around the investigation into how this really started. there's so much we could do together, but donald trump seems to only like to work apart. >> thank you all for starting off our discussion tonight. we really appreciate it. >> thank you. >>> and when we come back, colorado governor will join us on the progress that colorado is now making with testing and why the governor thinks students will be able to return to their classrooms in colorado in the fall. governor gerald polis joins us next. next [squawks] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ if you have a garden you know, weeds are low down little scoundrels. draw the line with roundup. the sure shot wand extends with a protective shield to target weeds precisely and kill them right down to the root. roundup brand. trusted for over 40 years. introducing tide power pods with c

ashish jha. the news being reported this morning, moderna, the drug company is moving into phase two of the vaccine, meaning that phase one went well enough that they're making progress. you talked to the folks at moderna yesterday so what do you know? >> yes, so they just released a press release as well about the phase one day pa, very early but if it holds up, very encouraging as well. there's two major points here. when you're doing these vaccine trials, the first phase is really to look for safety, and so far, the safety data does look pretty good. again, they have to analyze that, but they also looked into trying to figure out in response to these vaccines were people developing antibodies, a term that people have come to know but basically it's the body's response to a virus, and they want to make sure the antibodies, which could fight the virus later on, were, in fact, being produced when given this vaccine, and the answer is yes, at least in this early, these early results. not only were

jha, how do you see these crowded gatherings taking place this weekend? >> wolf, thanks for having me on. as as i look across the country, we see places like delaware, like the governor was saying, where people are being responsible, and that's great, for people to get out. but obviously, other photos and video we've seen, very crowded beaches, pool parties, that worries me a lot. the problem is we're not going to see the effects of that right away. it will take several weeks before we start really seeing the case numbers climb. that can lull us into a kind of sense of complacency that i worry about. >> dana, has the country approaches 100,000 deaths, president trump went golfing twice this weekend, on saturday and sunday. he spent a lot of time tweeting, stoking various conspiracy theories out there. despite calling for churches to reopen, to be open on sunday, saying "i'm opposing the churches," that that was essential, he didn't go himself to church this sunday. what message is all of this -- is he sending? >> look, i mean, he has been, especially in r

jha, thank you for joining me. is there a level of testing and tracing that we can do that will allow us to make the decisions about reentry or reopening in a way that is not as political as it has become? >> yeah, so thank you for having me on. it's really actually surprising that i think a couple of members of congress decided that testing people to keep them safe is a partisan issue. we had on our panel two former republican fda commissioners, both of whom have come out often saying we have inadequate testing and we need to ramp up testing. it's really stunning. as i said, there's nobody in america, no public health official in america that i have met who thinks testing is not an important part of this. so to your question, is there a level? there is. and experts have some level of disagreement about what that is. no one thinks we're meeting the current -- the level that currently we have enough, but our assessment is we probably need about 900,000 tests a day, other people think we need more than that. but whoe

jha, where are we on testing and where do we need to go? >> yes. so we've made a little bit of progress. we're still very, very far away from where we need to be. the fundamental question is, can we test everybody who needs a test today? and the answer is -- the short answer is no. and over the weekend, the white house put out a national testing strategy, wholly inadequate. they basically said we're doing plenty of tests, don't worry about it. but every expert i know of wherever they are on the political spectrum that i know of agrees we need to be doing a lot more testing if we're going to keep our country safe. >> doctor, very quickly, how do you define "everybody that needs a test." >> anybody who has symptoms needs to be able to get tested. anybody who works in high risk situations. we need to test nursing homes, patients in hospitals, doctors, nurses. there's a set of criteria of who should be tested. people in meat packing plants need to be able to get tested on a regular basis. we need these tests to make sure that we can open up our country

ashish jha. sanjay, the president is denying he said anything negative about the cdc at the luncheon with republican senators yesterday. sources at the cdc say the white house is prioritizing politics over science. >> they've been at the forefront of all previous outbreaks, epidemics, pandemics. you remember tom frieden, he's the guy we heard from during ebola. they're really critical. we know there were problems with the testing that they first released earlier on, and that seems to have really been stuck to them as we move forward. we're not hearing from the cdc as much. they are some of the best especially depidemiologists in o now give us a sense of how we navigate forward, how we start to think about life in the midst of a pandemic. schools, summer camps, getting on flights, all those things. i think they're critically important. i think it's too bad, given their worldwide reputation, that we haven't heard more of them. >> dr. jha, the cdc has released detailed guidance on reopening the coun

. >> thank you very much ashish jha >> thank you. i think we all understand the extreme hardship that the country is going through right now, also the extreme economic hardship and the consequences of the shutdown that we have put in place to mitigate the effects of the pandemic we all want to start reopening the economy and getting back to the things that we enjoyed but we need to recognize the challenges that we face against the backdrop of a lot of the spread that is still persistent in this country. there's hopeful signs, we see hospitalizations and cases going down nationally, even as we increase testing and see positivity rates go down the positivity rates have gone up and the reproduction rate is at 1.1 now. we are seeing signs of a slowing packet pandemic but there is more spread than we anticipated. so how can we do that smartly and prudently and try to mitigate the risk of extended outbreaks and new epidemic? it starts with a prudent approach to earth east reopening. i think it turns heavily on case based intervention, find

jha, thank you for joining us again on the "newshour". so what should ideally happen before a state starts to reopen? >> yes, so thank you for having me on. you know, the president's own guidelines, which are ones that w all largely agree with, suggest that states have to dramatically reduce the number of cases and then have adequate testing, tracing and isolation infrastructure. both of those are necessary. some states have reduced their number of cases, but very few states have the kind of testing necessary to really safely reopen. >> reporter: and, so, when we learn, as we did today, that the white house has rejected a proposal -- a very detailed proposal put together by the centers for disease control, the c.d.c., and said, essentially, it's up to the states, what does that say about having the right period oright -- the right prote right safety precautions in place before people are allowed to move around. >> this is an and decase of federal leadership. the longstanding deal between state and federal government is states run health a

jha? >> i do. i do. we really do have to let data drive this.obviously there are some places in the country, very low number of cases, montana, wyoming, vermont, where it may be safer to have much of the congregation back. and there are safe ways to open up churches and mosques and synagogues, but it's not to pack folks in because we don't want houses of worship to become places where people get sick. i think really you have to let science and evidence drive our decision-making on this. >> dr. i can't syasmin, we've s significant crowds gathering at beaches today and i assume bigger crowds tomorrow and monday, during this holiday weekend. so many of these people are not wearing masks and not even social distancing. you're an expert. what's your message to these people? >> before you go to the beach, think ahead about all of the things that you need to do to keep yourself safe. you're going to need a mask, think about physical distancing and not just on the beach. you may need to go to a restaurant. you may need to use a public bathroom. in those

ashi ashish jha. dr. jha, thank you for taking time to be here.now there is a lot of demands on your time right now. >> rachel, thank you so much for having me on. >> i wanted to talk to you tonight because, honestly, i was struck by the bluntness of your criticism of cdc, in this piece. i have been chasing something that is driving me crazy, which is that i feel like the cdc started to produce very non-cdc-like guidance or lack of guidance when it came to them investigating that big meat plant outbreak in sioux falls, south dakota. i'm worried that there's something broken inside cdc, which is why we're not getting the kind of guidance that you say we really need. >> yeah. so, rachel, this has been baffling to all of us, in the public health world. and, by the way, writing this piece was one of the most painful things i've done in a long time. i grew up, as a public health person, loving and admiring the cdc. arguing and believing that it is the best public-health agency in the world. and the scientists are, still, there. but, in this entire pand

ashish jha.s the director of the havgd public health institute, he is a professor at harvard medical school. he is also a practicing physician and public health expert, who says he is worried, among other things, about the mushy, weak, watered down guidance dribbling out of the cdc, in the middle of the greatest public health threat this country has seen. what is screwing things up at the cdc right now? at this time, when we need them the most. joining us now is dr. ashish jha. dr. jha, thank you for taking time to be here. i know there is a lot of demands on your time right now. >> rachel, thank you so much for having me on. >> i wanted to talk to you tonight because, honestly, i was struck by the bluntness of your criticism of cdc, in this piece. i have been chasing something that is driving me crazy, which is that i feel like the cdc started to produce very non-cdc-like guidance or lack of guidance when it came to them investigating that big meat plant outbreak in sioux falls, south dakota. i'

jha. jason just talking about the cdc guidance. they're now saying the tests might be wrong up to half the time, even in areas where there's been a lot more people have been sick from the virus. i mean, that's incredibly unreliable. that's basically you can't count on it at all. should they be used at all right now, these antibody tests? >> i don't think we should be making decisions uses those. i spent a fair amount of the weekend talking to folks to help create these tests, buzz there's a few things. one is there's a lot of tests put out. we talked about it initially that were just unreliable. they weren't validated, weren't very good tests. also, we still don't know the exact meaning of what the antibodies will provide, how strong that protection would be. it's likely they'll have some protection. also, to your point you're making, the tests will not work as well in areas where you have a low previousalence, the highee prevalen prevalence, the mori -- you're probably going to end up getting a lot of false-positives, as a result.

ashish jha, thank you for joining us as always. dr. jha: thank you.: in france, kids are going back to school as the government relaxes lockdown measures. but the education minister tells are not returning as much as wealthier families. parents can choose wther to send kids to class or keep them home. lucy williamson has more. lucy: not a place with a medical image, thisdionservative al cap is known across france as the place that refused to open any of its state primary schools because of three suspected cases of coronavirus. veall ince tested negative. the town's right-wing mayor says her decision was very popula here. there is too much pressure on parents, she says, because the government has asked each family to decide if thei child should return to school. >> i think it should be eher obligatory or not, because it creates a sense of guilt for the parents. if they send their child to school and they get gick, they felty. if they don't and the child. i'm, you feel guilty. --the child falls behind, you feel guilty. lucy: the street was full of paren

ashish jha, the director of the harvard global health institute. dr. jha, good to see you as always. what's your message to lawmakers today? >> so good morninging. my message to lawmakers is that we can open safely, and protect public health and get our economy going, but we have to let science and evidence drive that decision-making. and we are not doing that. not nearly as much as we need to and i am worried that until we do, it is going to be difficult for us to move our country forward. >> so what does that look like? i don't think you're going to find a lawmaker who says i don't want evidence and science to drive this. at least not publicly. so what would we do differently? >> so we could begin with the white house's own guidelines on opening up america. while i have some modest disagreements with, is largely right. it is largely scientifically driven. so the key principles are 14 days of declining cases, adequate testing and tracing capacity in place. most states don't meet that. a few do. they can probably open up safely. but most states don't.

doctor ashish jha from harvard university. has been moving across parts of bangladesh and eastern india, making the challenges of staying safe during the coronavirus pandemic much more difficult. at least 15 people have died, more than 3 million people were forced to leave their homes, mostly in bangladesh before cyclone amphan hit. coronavirus restrictions have been hampering the relief efforts, as our correspondent in mumbai, yogita limaye, reports. the might of the storm has left a trail of destruction. amphan has plundered its way through the indian state of west bengal, neighbouring bangladesh also in its path. hunkered inside, even those used to seeing cyclones every year are stunned by the fury. i have never seen something like this ever in my life. it went on continuously for three hours without any signs of slowing down. from inside my home, i could hear tin roofs flying around, i could hear trees getting uprooted. 0n the shores, sea water surged in, along with heavy rainfall, it has caused flooding in many areas. ove

ashish jha. dr.w unusual is it for a company that's never brought a vaccine to market to get this much money from the federal government to create a vaccine of this type? >> yes, so jake, things for having me on. it is unusual. it's very unusual. but we are in unusual times. this technology has been developed, we think it has some reasonable chance of working. i'm comfortable with the idea of the u.s. government making a bunch of bets. because if they can bring this to market, and they're not the only ones in clinical trials, there are others, but if any of them could bring something to market in a year or less, that's great. unusual, but we're in unusual times. >> the nih is testing it on humans without waiting for animal trials. i spoke earlier this week with dr. paul offutt, i'm sure you're fami familiar with him, from the institute of pennsylvania. he says what worries him the most about getting these vaccines to market is that steps are being skipped or compressed for expediency. obviously we're

doctor ashish jha from harvard university. been moving across parts of bangladesh and eastern india making the challenges of staying safe during the coronavirus pandemic much more difficult. at least 15 people have died, more than 3 million people were forced to leave their homes — mostly in bangladesh before cyclone amphan hit. coronavirus restrictions have been hampering the relief efforts, as our correspondent in mumbai, yogita limaye, reports. the might of the storm has left a trail of destruction. amphan has plundered its way through the indian state of west bengal, neighbouring bangladesh also in its path. hunkered inside, even those used to seeing cyclones every year are stunned by the fury. i have never seen something like this ever in my life. it went on continuously for three hours without any signs of slowing down. from inside my home, i could hear tin roofs flying around, i could hear trees getting uprooted. on the shores, sea water surged in, along with heavy rainfall, it has caused flooding in many areas. over th

doctor ashish jha from harvard university.the world health organization says latin america is currently the epicentre of the pandemic. rich preston has the latest from the continent. lockdowns remain in place across much of latin america as it tackles the spread of coronavirus. in colombia, which has around 17,000 cases and over 6000 deaths, police used drones to look for those breaking quarantine rules in the capital, bogota. but they're a little bit more sophisticated than that. police are looking for people with a fever and if it spots someone with a high temperature, it sends the location to a control room so a medical team can be dispatched to find the person and test them for the virus. translation: it gives us an approximate body temperature and directs the case to a national system so it can be attended to. colombia's neighbor to the south, peru, has the second highest death toll from covid—19 in latin america. in the capital, lima, a protest by these hospital workers demanding more protective equipment, saying they ha

jha. let's talk about the guidelines for a moment.e new ones for offices include proper ventilation systems and increased flow of outdoor air, cloth masks in all areas of business interactions no, handshakes, no hugs, no fist bumps. temperature screenings before entering, staggering shifts and break times throughout the course of the day. does all of that sound practical and reasonable to you or does it not go far it not go far enough? >> good morning and thanks for having me on. i think it's a really good start. i think all of those are good ideas. i like the stuff about ventilation. we're getting more and more evidence that good ventilation inside buildings can make a big difference. i think that's important. i saw nothing in there about testing and very little about the level of community transmission. there are a lot of communities where there's very little virus and it will be easy to get places back to work. there are places where outbreaks are still growing where even all of those won't be enough. i like it as a start. >> a big

jha and dr. megan ranny. dr.hat i think the conversation a month from now will give us a better sense of how to grade the reopening. but if you talk to people in georgia and texas, texas had a big spike yesterday. and so some of the mayors say, i told you so, governor. we were too high when you reopened. the governor's staff would say, you know what, we have more testing, that's why we're having a spike in cases and our hospitals are handling this okay. who is right? >> good morning, john. hospitalizations are really kind of a late indicator. by the time hospitalizations go up, you've let the cat out of the bag. it's too early to tell. georgia has gone better than i was expecting. the next couple of weeks will be important. i'm tracking cases, testing, and obviously what's happening with hospitalizations but down the road. i would say both of those states, it's too early to tell whether the decisions made by the governor were right ones or not. >> and yet, you do see the ihme model, this is from the university of

jha was talking about to fight for the end of the ebola crisis. and were very valuable as an instrument ultimately in that fight. that's what happened here again around vaccines, around research, around the investigation into how this really started. there's so much we could do together, but president trump seems to only like to work apart. >> thank you all for starting off our discussion tonight. we really appreciate it. >> thank you. >>> and when we come back, colorado governor will join us on the progress that colorado is now making with testing and why the governor thinks students will be able to return to their classrooms in colorado in the fall. he joins us next. he joins us next biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to and stay undetectable. that's when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. research shows people who take h-i-v treatment every day and get to and stay undetectable can

ashish jha, director of the harvard global health institute. dr. jha thanks for taking the time.uci, dr. birx say it's possible by january of next year. tell us how realistic that time frame is, based on what goes in to developing a credible vaccine. >> yes, so good morning and thanks for having me on. so that is an incredibly ambitious time line. like usually vaccines take several years to develop. obviously we are trying to speed the process up as much as possible, and i've been saying 12 to 18 months, if everything goes super smoothly. january would be only about seven months away, so look, miracles can happen. it could come together, but i'm certainly not banking on it and i don't think we should all bank on a january availability but i'm hopeful that sometime in 2021 we will have a vaccine. >> so the administration has now identified 14 potential vaccines. do you know what has gone into that decision-making? are those 14 credible candidates at this point? >> so there are a good number. i don't know the specifics of what criteria they used. i can say there are at least eight

ashish jha, thank you for taking the time to be here. there are a lot of demands on your time right now. >> rachel, thank you so much for having me on. >> i wanted to talk to you tonight, because honestly, i was struck by the bluntness of your criticism of cdc in this piece. i have been chasing something that is driving me crazy, which is that i feel like the cdc started to produce very non-cdc-like guidance, or lack of guidance, when it came to them investigating the meat plant outbreak in sioux falls, south dakota. i'm worried that there's something broken inside cdc which is why we're not getting the kind of guidance that you say we really need. >> yes, so rachel, this has been baffling to all of us in the public health world. and by the way, writing this piece was one of the most painful things i've done in a long time. i grew up as a public health person loving and admiring the cdc, arguing and believing that it is the best public health agency in the world. and the scientists are still there. but in this entire pandemic, it's been

jha, it's willie geist.ning up, you have said consistently since the without put out its guidelines that they are directionally right. the idea is good but some of the specifics you quibble with. i was talking to a guy who develops vaccines for a living and he says by opening up even a little bit we're embarking on a grand national experiment as if to sairny, we're going to push people in in small doses and crossfingers. what do you think it means, this new optimism that people can go outside and go about their lives? >> willie, i certainly am sympathetic to the idea that people want to go back out into the community and start engaging in economic activity. i think we're all feeling a little fed up being inside. but the question isn't, do we want to go back? the question is, is it even remotely safe to do so? and you know what would have helped a lot in terms of getting us ready to go back is if we had a great testing and tracing and isolation program. but we don't. we basically wasted the last month quibbli

jha wants to test everybody in the country, every day. and that is like crazy, unnecessary and impractical. and president echoed that today. the testing thing, it goes too far. what the guys are asking for. they are saying they don't want to do the testing. they are going to say guys like you you want to do it to a level that doesn't really even matter. >> yeah. so look, that is obviously not what we have ever said. and i've been pretty aggressive on testing. even my testing approach which we have updated our numbers saying we should be doing about a million tests day. that means every american in my approach would get tested once a year. that's not a lot. in fact, we probably should be doing more than that. but that's the bare minimum. but what the president has laid out is every american getting tested one every four to five years, which is absurd. the bottom line is more testing is better. no one is saying everyone gets tested every day. what we're saying is if you have symptoms, you should be able to get tested. if you are high risk y

jha, thank you very much for your candor and expertise.ly appreciate your coming on this morning. >>> coming up, ron klain coordinated the u.s. response to ebo ebola. now, he's weighing in on america's fight against covid-19. the former obama adviser joins us straight ahead. >>> plus, president trump is pushing obamagate in the middle of a pandemic. records fail to back up his claims about his predecessor. nbc's carol lee joins us with that new reporting. "morning joe" will be right back. who has time for wrinkles? neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair®. we've got the retinol that gives you results in one week. not just any retinol. accelerated retinol sa. one week is all it takes. neutrogena®. where we can find common ground... big enough to dance on. for a better us, donate to your local y today. confident financial plans, calming financial plans, complete financial plans. they're all possible with a cfp® professional. find yours at letsmakeaplan.org. to deliver your mail and packages and the peace of mind of knowing that essentials like pres

ashish jha, it's always a pleasure.hank you so much for giving us the facts. >> thank you. >>> new data warns of significant shortfalls in covid-19 testing in countries facing humanitarian crisis. the head of the international rescue committee joins me straight ahead. >>> a third arrest in connection with to the shooting death of ahmaud arbery. he was shot to death while jogging. the man who videotaped arbery's final moments is in jail. he's facing felony murder charges. gregory and travis mcmichael, the men seen following and shooting arbery in that video, were charged with murder and aggravated assault. brian's attorney says he was just a witness who saw the chase from his home and decided to follow and start recording. in a police report, the mcmichaels said that brian played a part saying he unsuccessfully tried to block arbery before he was fatally shot. you wouldn't accept an incomplete job from anyone else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase sensimist. nothing stronger. nothing gentler. nothing lasts

jha thinks of this, but the world war ii analogy seems a little bit off to me. sacrifice is one thing. this is an infectious disease, so i'm going to sacrifice on behalf of you, on behalf of people i don't even know, people who are sick already have preexisting conditions who are elderly, is that what we're really saying? i'm not sure that i would use that as an apt metaphor for an infectious disease. >> it's also interesting, too, based on the conversations that we keep having about personal responsibility and what that means in a time of coronavirus and how it's actually responsibility to your community. s sanjay, pulling off of that, we talk about wearing a mask to protect you, not just to protect myself. so it's fascinating that we hear that narrative on the heels of there has to be some sacrifice in the terms of -- in terms of lives lost. >> yeah. so let me -- let me build on sanjay's point and talk about what governor cristie said. we keep setting' the false choice. here's the bottom line. we all want to open, and we can open and we do it if we were smart

ashish jha and dr. ranney a brown university researchers and emergency room physician in rhode island. when you hear dr. fauci say january can't guarantee it, is that reasonable or unrealistic given your understanding of all of these vaccine trials under way? >> good morning, john, thanks for having me back on. i would say that's incredibly optimistic. look, there's nobody i trust more on this than dr. fauci. and so i'm not going to contradict him. but i look at the same data and i think, january would be wonderful, but -- >> dr. ranney, you're treating patients, obviously, and we're talking during the break about boston and rhode island having issues. are their patients in your hospital getting this drug remdesivir as helpful, not a game changer, but helpful to people who have severe symptoms? >> so up until just a couple of days ago, remdesivir was only available in the context of clinical trials. now that they've created that emergency use authorization, we'll be able to start using it for the sick p

jha, i want to get your sense of where we are tonight.seems like new york is on a down slope, but is it -- is it, in fact, the case that the rest of the country, when you look at the country as a whole, we're at a plateau, we are not actually moving downward? >> thanks for having me on, lawrence. what we have is a tale of two countries. we have new york, new jersey, connecticut, parts of other places where the cases are declining. ohio, california, where if you put them in aggregate, the number of cases is declining. and then you have the rest of the country, the second half of the story, where it's not just flat, it's actually rising. not everywhere. some places it is flat, some places it's low. but aggregate, the rest of the country is increasing. so this whole idea that -- and that's why on average it comes out flat. but this idea that the country is ready to open up does not comply with the facts and data on the ground. >> doctor, what about regions of the country? governor cuomo is talking about possible upstate regions of new york s

jha, the conversation you've tried to push the country to accept is the need for more testing. that you thought your estimate might be conservative. now you say we need even more testing. the gold states meet the minimum standard, the light red states are close, and the dark red states are way behind, far fewer testing than you believe is necessary. even governor cuomo saying his state is making progress. where are we in testing? >> the good news, john, is we are making progress. testing is better now than it was two weeks ago. and -- but we are for many, many states far behind. the reason we have to update our numbers is because all the models have changed and the number of cases and the number of deaths has gone up and so you have to have more testing the bigger outbreak you have. one of the things we learned this week, john, as the virus has hit the white house, the white house coming out and admitting that testing is a really key part of keeping businesses safe. they're testing all of their folks every day, and i support that by the way. i don't think all americans need to

jha, there you are at a school at harvard university. how did you interpret dr. fauci's answer? what dr. fauci was saying was two things. first of all, we're not going to have the kind of treatment or vaccines that will make people feel comfortable sending kids back to school this fall. so is there a way we can get kids back? we can. assuming there aren't large outbreaks happening. but you're going to need really extensive testing available at that time. and nothing i heard in the hearing today gave me confidence that we're going to have that. the admiral talked about 30 million to 40 million tests per month. that is about a million or a million and a half tests a day that's better than where we are right now. but not the level we would need if we were going to send kids back to school or college. everybody back to work. especially in the fall where we'll see a resurgence of covid in the context of a flu season. we're going to need a lot more tests. >> senator rand paul apparently was upset that dr. fauci said anything other than sure, everyone should go back to school in the fa

ashish jha, the director of harvard's global health institute. thank you for coming in on sunday.estion is are we in a better place this week than we are last week. i want to show you some numbers released by dr. birx at the white house, the coronavirus cases in the united states. we're going through a 50-state experiment. we need to look at every state. this is hospitalizations. hospitalizations headed down. as we reopen, does it stay down or start to go back up. if we could show the cases in the united states, there's no question, you're in a high level there, more than 20,000 new cases confirmed every day, but the line is flat and trending down. we're going through this reopening. we've seen pictures of the beaches. this is a question mark. the white house saying it's safe to start getting out of your house. but the fda commissioner tweeting this, i remembered everyone that the coronavirus is not yet contained. it's up to every individual to protect themselves and their community, social distancing, handwashing, wearing masks. dr. jha, that tells me that the commissioner is loo

jha? >> well, what i would say is you shouldn't listen to the president, shouldn't listen to me, you should look at the action. when the president was worried about the safety of the oval office, which he should be and we should all be. we've got to keep that place protected. what they did is they started testing people every day. so words are fine. he can say we don't need more testing, with it doesn't matter. the action of the white house are they are testing all their employees every day, and that's how they're trying to keep the president safe. and i'm interested in keeping all americans safe. and i don't think we need to be testing every day but we clearly need to be testing a lot more people. >> and the fda has granted its first use for an antigen test. and dr. birx had said we needed a break through at that sort of a level. she specifically mentioned antigen testing when she spoke about a week ago. how significant is this new test? is it sort of a break through capability? >> these

j jha. we already thought we were behind on testing so we're sort of now at the point it seems as if we don't ramp up testing to ten times what we're doing, then there's really no -- sort of the testing we're doing is the testing we should do? what kind of testing should we be doing at this point in time now that everybody is opened up in some form in this country? >> yeah. so the way to think about this is, you know, the number is -- the number we've estimated should be about 900,000 a day. but that comes to the notion that you want to be able to test high-risk people. you want to test anybody with symptoms. i don't -- i would have said that we're doing 300,000 to 400,000 before i said we were mixing in antibody testing. i'm not sure how many we're doing. what i know is we need to do a lot more if we're going to -- we can open up with whatever number we want. can we stay open and keep people safe? for that, we need a lot more testing. >> there's got to be a lot of modelers and epidemiologis

mask, people like ashish jha, trying to take your freedom and suffocate you, literally, with a mask. not me. why else would he not do it? his explanation made no sense. isn't it a play? >> yeah. so, chris, thanks for having me on. look. masks are freedom. wear the mask. you get to go back to work. have testing. you get to go back to work. wait until the caseloads are declining enough, which a lot of states are heading that way. just wait a little longer until you're there and you can go back to work. now, it won't be going back to the way life was six months ago. but we can get a lot of it back. so i am puzzled by why masks and testing are seen as anti-freedom. i see them as pro-freedom. i see them as getting our lives back safely. >> you know why? too smart. that's your problem. you have to think politics, not science or even prudent policy. it's summertime, brother. i want to call you up. i want to have an adult beverage with you and you're telling me wait a little longer. i want to go fish. i want to get my family out of the house. my kids hate me. i hate them almost as much. i wa

dr ashish jha is director of harvard university's global health institute.reaction to the warning from the who. we are, you know, early days u nfortu nately we are, you know, early days unfortunately in this long pandemic and even if everything goes very well and we have a vaccine sometime next year, we are going to have many, many more months of many more cases, so more months of many more cases, so unfortunately we are still early and this very long journey. some countries have obviously done a very good job, south korea is hailed as a model and rightly so. even countries like germany and others have done a very good job where the us has been quite a leg and moved very slowly on testing. it is puzzling to me because it is such an obvious thing to be doing from a public health point of view. we are thinking about the northern hemisphere as it goes into the fall and winter months. i think there is good reason to believe we will have a second peak. there is good reason to believe it could be substantially worse than the first peak we just saw experienced and

ashish jha is the director of harvard global health institute. >> every state can't figure out the whole thing by itself, and you need federal guidance and a new national strategy for having enough test and making sure the right kind of people are being tempted. >> reporter: well, president trump says the u.s. is outperforming every country when it comes to testing, as he tries to reassure americans who are going back to work. today, he said if there is a second wave of infections, which health officials warn is very the country again.t shut down norah. >> o'donnell: all right, weijia jiang at the white house tonight. economy since mid-march almost half of all adults have either lost income or someone in their household who has according to a new government report. cbs' mark strassmann reports tonight from florida. >> reporter: florida is a tough place to be jobless. >> there's nothing yet. >> reporter: donald estrada is a laid off maintenance man in miami. he's owed six weeks of state and federal unemployment benefits. look at his bank balance-- .66. >> every time i wake up in the morni

i've been speaking dr ashish jha, the director of harvard university's global health institute. with the who's warning. i do. we are early days unfortunately in this long pandemic and even if everything goes very well and we have a vaccine sometime next year, we are going to have many more months of many more cases so unfortunately we are still early in this very long journey. you spoke to congress and told them that testing with at the heart of any effort to stop the virus. how do you think countries around the world are doing in this respect? the variation is really quite stunning. some countries obviously have done a very good job, south korea is hailed as a model and rightly so. even countries like germany and others have done a very good job whereas the us has been quite a laggard and has moved very slowly on testing. it is been puzzling to me given it is such an obvious thing to be doing a from a public health point of view why some countries have been slow on this. you have warned that a second peak could return in the autumn. talk me through what that might look like and