former senator jim demint.k in january to pull strings behind the curtain running the right wing heritage foundation. he is one of the early leaders in the destroy obama care movement. you know the guy who said this about health care in 2009. >> if we're able to. so obama on this, it will be his waterloo. it will break him. >> it will break him. three years later, and look what's happening? it's breaking boehner. here's the translation. john boehner, i'm your boss. you better hold the line on this or else. joining me now are goldie taylor and ryan grim. thank you both for coming on the show tonight. >> thank you. >> pleasure. >> ryan, incredible events unfolding. how scared of jim demint is speaker boehner that he pulls his own bill? >> i mean, he clearly must not have had the votes after heritage told people to vote no. the way this works is that heritage action which is the corporate/grassroots right wing organization decides that certain votes are quote, unquote key votes. which means those are the ones they

and jim demint.u know, the -- you know, the incentives are lined up such that the democrats could give money to jim demint and club for growth to do what they're doing, they certainly would figure out a way to do it. >> absolutely. goldie, would i like you to listen to david brooks of the "new york times" on the subject of the gop civil war. take a listen. >> the question now is, will the republican party have a civil war. over the nature of the party. and i think we're beginning to see rumblings of that. the problem is, to have a civil war, you actually have to have two sides. the tea party has a political movement, think tank, donor base, others want to compete in california and new york and along the east coast and illinois. they don't have a side. they have american crossroads, a pact. they have a cocktail party. >> so i guess, goldie, you can have a lot of republican-on republican violence. but does that make it a true civil war? >> you know, i have stay with ryan about this, it does not feel li

jim demint no longer holds any office in this country anymore. he now runs a conservative think tank, even though he's no longer in congress, jim demint might as well be the speaker of the house. today we entered day 15 of the government shutdown, just over 24 hours away of defaulting on our national debt, hitting the debt ceiling and running out of money to pay our bills. there are tea party republicans who say they're not worried about the thursday deadline for hitting the debt cells. china is calling for a deamericanized world because of the quote intensifying domestic political turmoil in the united states. the u.s. was put on notice today from one of the big credit ratings agencies quote, the repeated brinkmanship over the debt rating -- agency is threatening to downgrade america's credit which could cost us billions of dollars in higher interest raiments. those are some of the consequences of letting the u.s. default. it was with that catastrophe getting closer by the hour that senate majority leader mitch mcconnell laid out the frame work

now, people like jim demint and heritage action and tea partiers, i'm not sure they're motivated exactlyy hate of obama. but they are exploiting that. that is the fuel for their libertarian ideology, whatever. >> that's the brand. the united states senate which i used to look up to in the country. senator. he gives that up. he says i want to fight the enemy out there. he joined the heritage foundation. nobody in past history could explain it. why would you give up to help legislate unless you're not interested in legislation? >> he's probably making a lot more money. >> could be. >> personal angle here. but these people, you're right. they're not interested in governance or policy. the tea party people, this is one thing i don't think boehner -- >> i think it's the fight itself. >> they want to disrupt. they want to fight and disrupt. they don't want compromises. they don't want deals. they don't want policy wins. they want to fight and destroy. >> sam, respond to this. on the right, the lesson from the government shutdown seems to be the republican party itself caved. here's rush limbau

mcconnell is getting run over by his former senate colleague, jim demint. cruz is trampling over everybody. where is karl rove with his white board when you need him? i mean, can anyone make heads or tails of who is in charge of the republican party, in fact, at the moment? >> i just spoke with senator cruz about 30 minutes ago. for a long run in "national review" next week. >> man, you've got access to all of the players, robert. you really have. >> well, interesting thing i heard from senator cruz, as much as there is a lot of talk about senate republican colleagues being very unhappy with his conduct and his strategy, cruz still remains the power center within the conservative movement. so though he may not have many allies within the senate republican conference, you can't count him out as the january deadline approaches and the february debt ceiling debt line approaches, because he's still going to be one who can rally activists behind his strategy and an outlook. >> i have no doubt. now, robert, we would be remiss if we didn't recognize that you may b

with several reports, i will talk to senator jim demint on why he and his organization will not back down on citing obama care. how the administration is trying to spin it all, but we begin with jim angle on the hard problems with the obama software. >> the new website is intended to sign up millions of uninsured are moving at the speed of molasses with them having to handle applications by hand because the website makes so many mistakes. all of which they find astounding. >> i am standing here in san francisco and hit 50 companies that could deliver web technology by walking down the street. they didn't use any of those because they can't get through the government contrasting. >> david notes while the government used private companies, they used technology and insisted on putting the pieces together itself which he compares to building your own house. >> you decided to do the contractor and have the electrician work for you and you will be the to make it work and you department know what you were doing. >> robert gibbs takes a similar view criticizing the roll out, saying the admini

jim demint announced it is endorsing mcconnell's tea party primary opponent bev vin, not afraid to stand the establishment and he will do what it takes to stop obama care, perhaps more proof in the words of our first read team, the shutdown has brought the gop to the brink of an idealogical civil war. nbc news senior political editor mark murray is with me now. mcconnell's team wasting no time responding saying bevin has the dubious honor of standing with a self-serving d.c. fund raising group that made its name by recruiting unelectable candidates that ensured barack obama a majority in the senate. he has a gar gant tu an cash advantage but is this something to worry about? >> two things to worry about, primary and general election challenge. we have seen mitch mcconnell in the comments he's given suggests he's more worried about the general election than primary. it's important to take a step back. we have seen interparty fighting, prominent republican senators getting primary challenges and losing, robert bennett in utah in 2010, but what is striking here is that mitch mcconnell is th

look at where ted cruz and jim demint are spending this weekend.t values voter summit this weekend. both ted cruz and jim demint sharing the schedule with birther luminaries like sandy rios who had this to say about the recent terror attack at that mall in kenya. >> the implications of this are pretty frightening and of course it's interesting that this is the country from which our president hails, this is his lineage. we know that his cousin, was -- is a muslim communist. it's just amazing. i think he's the prime minister right now. >> actually not the prime minister of kenya anymore. not a muslim. not a communist. and not the president's cousin. cruz and demint are spending the weekend with rios and other peoples who tend to sound more reasonable like frank gaffney. >> on so many other issues involved in this, however where the president was born, there seems to have been, well, a lack of documentation to say the least, to put it, again charitably. what's going on with that? >> you want to know who's doing the session at that summit with demint

for example, pulling the obama care strings behind the scenes is former senator jim demint. weren't conservative enough in 2012. republicans were told don't do anything, don't be the issue, don't stand for anything, make it about obama. what happened in 2012 was that there was a void of any inspiration, any attempt to lead. it certainly wasn't because the party was too conservative. it was because there were no conservative leadership at all. how come they moved further right than they did? >> with hogan, it's nice to hear a level headed common sense republican speak on this issue. he's not the only one, of course. there are some level headed republicans here in washington like john mccain and peter king, susan collins and others who are saying the same thing. it reminds me of the democratic party when we got wiped out with george mcgovern. some said the reason is we didn't go far left enough. no. there are some times when you have to realize the extremists have taken over your party and your strategy is not working. hogan is absolutely right. it's jim demint on the outside

now, people like jim demint and heritage action and tea partiers, i'm not sure they're motivated exactlyy hate of obama. but they are exploiting that. that is the fuel for their libertarian ideology, whatever. >> that's the brand. the united states senate which i used to look up to in the country. he gives that up. he says i want to fight the enemy out there. he joined the heritage foundation. nobody in past history could explain it. why would you give up to help legislate unless you're not interested in legislation? >> he's probably making a lot more money. >> could be. >> personal angle here. but these people, you're right. they're not interested in governance or policy. the tea party people, this is one thing i don't think boehner -- >> i think it's the fight itself. >> they want to disrupt. they want to fight and disrupt. they don't want compromises. they don't want deals. they don't want policy wins. they want to fight and destroy. >> sam, respond to this. seems to be the republican party itself caved. here's rush limbaugh the cheerleader on the hard right this week. let's listen to

the person most upset is jim demint. he spent 10 years to build himself up to be the new leader of the radical wing of the republican party, the robert taft of the 2010 plus period. in 10 months ted cruz eclipsed him. nobody talks about jim demint but ted cruz. they wield power but he's the leader, the acknowledged leader, i think, of that wing of the party. it's the dominant wing of the party. we should not discount the political savvy and brilliance of this guy. it's demagogue brilliance, dangerous one. this guy is scare y. >> heather, the obstruction and obfuscation continues. we hear word they are threaten to filibuster -- block janet yellin for fed chair, jeh johnson for secretary of homeland security and patricia millette seated on the d.c. circuit court, the second most important court in the country. this is happening at the same time the deficit, which is arguably the thing the tea party is worried most about is at the lowest it has been in five years. at 2013, $680.3 billion. is that cause for them to maybe rel

. >> senate conservative fund, a group jim demint used to be affiliated with, now a super pac run by former demint staffers came up and said we're going to actively look at endorsing more conservative candidates in primaries. i will say, andrea, i was a little bit surprised, maybe i'm naive, i was a little surprised. i asked how many republicans in the house will vote for this compromise. i thought 150 maybe. many people said well under 100. the safe vote when you think about a primary challenge, remember, that's what most of these members worry about now given where the redistricting lines are. the safe vote is voting against it. it wound up right, 87 votes in favor of it. obviously all 198 or 200 who voted for it voted in favor so it passed. a remarkable testament. look how that broke out. look who voted for it and against it tells you everything you need to know about republican party politics at the moment. >> tom cotton voting yes. >> general election guys. guys who are worried about general elections yes, guys worried about primaries voted no. >> chuck todd, you had an extraord

. >> perry, jim demint on that note has an op-ed in "the wall street journal," we won't back down on obama care. the headline in the washington post, republicans are not done fighting with the new health care law. this is not going away, certainly. in fact as you may have heard, marco rubio saying this is going to be an election issue, big deal in 2014. what's your thought? >> i do think it could be. it depends on how this works. remember, the en rollment process is designed to have people enroll from now until next march. so we're still pretty early on. if these website problems still exist a year from now during the election cycle, that's a big problem for president obama and democrats in congress. i do think right now the republicans will pull back slightly from this anti-obama care push. i know ted cruz is important and so is jim demint, but mitch mcconnell runs the senate and is probably the most important republican in washington. the fact that he's saying we're not going to shut down, we're not going to keep pushing the way we have been on obama care tells you that the party i

you have big actors, not only jim demint and his organization but koch brothers and other wealthy individualsho under the current rules can spend millions or tens of millions to help turn that government resentment into a national crusade. ted cruz has seen that emerge. he's put himself at the head of that parade. that's what's gone on here. that's quite a powerful thing. i'm not sure karl, who i've covered for years, knows quite -- i'm not sure what's left of the establishment knows quite how to deal with it. mitch mcconnell had to do the deal to get the government running again. he felt he had to do that deal. he helped do that deal after spending weeks of not doing anything and making it worse, he came in at the end to help secure the deal. the fact that he did so, he knew that he was going to get the challenge and get the money against him. he's calculating somehow -- >> lets be clear. mitch mcconnell had a lot more money than matt bevin does in current coffers. he's also looking at senate and wanting to give republicans a shot. >> mcconnell has like a 38% approval rating in kentucky. >>

jim demint in his heritage foundation which led the shutdown charge has a new report out about obama care. let's talk about the policy. it finds in the report, quote, individuals in most states will end up spending more on the exchanges. now, talking points memo found one rather glaring problem with that report from the heritage foundation. quote, this is talking memos, they didn't account for the financial help that the affordable care act gives uninsured people. in other words, they ignored the subsidies for millions of low-income families that's the central part of the law. millions of americans get help to buy insurance. i mean, that's the whole point of the law. so in all of this confusion that they're trying to cause, they're putting out outright lies, myths, and exaggerations which gets away from the point of the law which is why the law was enacted and was put through in the first place, joan. >> well, right. and ever since heritage has signed a report on immigration to a white supremacist, i don't think that their searches have credibility anymore. there was a problem with d

. >> you know, you get more ted cruzs in there to back up jim demint and you have less to worry about accuses v.a.ens in need. he may have handed cuccinelli a potent counter attack embracing new central legs on coal mining and injury. very important part of the economy. accusing mcauliff joining obama administration on war on coal. >> now terry mcauliff wants to move attack. >> we have got to move past coal and i never want another coal plant belt. >> the race is tightening for the stretch. turnout expected to be very low and the outcome will be the nation's first look at how the shutdown battle over obama care plays out at the ballot box. >> bret: the panel returns and we will talk about obama care's first week when we come back. ♪ nice car. sure is. make a deal with me, kid, and you can have the car and everything that goes along with it. [ thunder crashes, tires squeal ] ♪ ♪ so, what do you say? thanks... but i think i got this. ♪ [ male announcer ] the all-new cla. starting at $29,900. customer erin swenson ordebut they didn't fit.line customer's not happy, i'm not happy. sales go

jim demint and the heritage have been completely discredited among republicans.riticizing them. they will not have the power. >> this gets back to the question of winners and losers after this week. we'll get to the president and whether he's won, if he's won anything, as some people believe he has. here was "the week" magazine way graphic cover. self h sel self-inflicted wounds depicting hatch and boehner. will they get back on track? >> i think they will. you don't learn a lesson by getting kicked twice by a mule. >> does it matter what mitch mcconnell and john boehner say? >> yes. because a lot of people in the republican party know if they do this again, in 2016 they'll suffer. you talk about obama's leadership. why did he win this? he dealt with the republican party that he has to deal with, not the republican party that he wish existed. he sent the signal and now republicans know that if they want to deal, they have to start somewhere closer to the center, not on the far right. >> i can't believe mitch mcconnell is one of the winners, that he helped to craf

former senator jim demint. he's the tea partier who tried to use obama care to, quote, break the president. and who was a driving force behind the government shutdown. and now in a new wall street journal op-ed out today, he says, quote, obama care was not the central fight in 2012. the best thing is to declare last year's election a mistrial on obama care. declare the election a mistrial? obama care was not the central fight of 2012? was he watching the same campaign i was? >> we passed obama care. and it was the right thing to do. >> when we're elected, we're going to get rid of obama care and return health care to the people. >> repeal obama care. and that's exactly what we're going to do. >> get rid of obama care and replace it with real -- >> here is how you repeal obama care. >> i said we'd pass health care reform. we passed it. >> oh, you're right, mr. demint. health care wasn't an issue at all in 2012. let's just declare it a mistrial. but he's not the only one. his buddy ted cruz, the senator who just

and it's coming really from the algorithm of what jim demint started.aying we are much more at war with the gop establishment than barack obama. they've been selling us out. in our minds, they're losing on culture wars, fiscal matters. to them they see the deficit exploding at their expense. thee see all these entitlements given to minorities. they want to win and they want someone to fight for them against all odds. >> walking anger. anyway, listen carefully to how cruz talks about the fight over the shutdown. the democrats caused the shutdown, harry reid and the president are the ones that want it. let's listen to cruz world. >> right now we need to deal with the fact a significant percentage of the government is shutdown because harry reid and president obama have refused to negotiate. >> do you feel responsible for what's been happening to people? >> look, i think it is indefensible that president obama and harry reid have forced a government shutdown. they shouldn't have shut down the government. the position of the democrats, it's remarkable. they

look at where ted cruz and jim demint are spending this weekend.oth at at values voter summit this weekend. they're sharing their schedule with conservative talk show host sandy reyoes. >> the implications of this are pretty frightening and of course it's interesting that this is the country from which our president hails, this is his lynnage. we know that his cousin, was -- is a muslim come my nift. i think he's the prime minister of kenya right now. >> not the prime minister, not a muslim, and not the president's cousin. they're spending the weekend with people like that and people who tend to sound more reasonable like frank gaffney. >> on so many other issues involved in this, however where the president was born, there seems to have been, well, a lack of documentation to say the least, to put it, again charitiably. what's going on with that. >> you want to know who's doing the session at that summit with them this weekend? you want to know? yeah. yeah. >> are you out of your mind? america. i ask you sincerely, are you out of your mind? i mean,

i was struck by jim demint saying repealing health care was not the centerpiece of 2012. we wish it would have been. they certainly want to keep it there for midterms and 2016. >> how about the fact senator orrin hatch called out demint and heritage on chuck's show on the "the daily rundown." that shows the schism between main conservatives and tea party conservatives. >> right. it doesn't -- the way forward on this for the republican party is going to be to win or to somehow deal with this insurgent part of the party that's not going away. sarah palin is talking about going next to kentucky, talking about mitch mcconnell's challenger on the tea party right. i don't see them really backing down. they understand the farther obama care goes, the more it becomes part of the firmament of the entitlement state, difficult it will be to make adjustments. it was only 2010 when it was a major factor that led to republicans taking over the house. >> what they are trying to do -- what democrats are trying to do is get as many people signed up as possible before january 1st when it k

why former senator jim demint is speaker boehner's boss. congressman keith ellison is on that next. >>> the shutdown has proven to be the unmitigated disaster for the gop. we have brand new numbers on the results. and those results are amazing. >>> and who is really running this party? something remarkable is about to happen. we'll explain. >>> and friend or foe, i want to know. e-mail me. reply al is ahead. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] eeny, meeny, miny, go. ♪ ♪ more adventures await in the new seven-passenger lexus gx. lease the 2014 gx 460 for $499 a month for 27 months. see your lexus dealer. for $499 a month for 27 months. from the classic lines to the elegant trim in each and every piece, kohler will make your reality a dream. i'to guard their manhood with trnew depend shields and guards. the discreet protection that's just for guys. now, it's your turn. get my training tips at guardyourmanhood.com >>> have you joined the "politicsnation" conversation on facebook yet? we hope you will. ten days into the shutdown, our facebook fans are fed u

it appears the true head of the colonel curtz wing is jim demint from heritage, whose new wsj editorial we won't back down on obama care includes this genius sentence. the best thing is to declare last year's election a mistrial on obama care. >> what? >> wow. once again elections don't really matter. so clearly the war on obama care is far from over. >> i think the ironic thing we saw in the last couple of weeks. this all started with some small faction of the republican party feeling so adamant they want to defund obama care. that didn't happen. it wasn't going to happen. the republican party you know, moving forward, are they going to try to sort of continue this crusade that some republicans are in favor of against obama care are or they going to try more piecemeal approach. i think it was interesting that we found out from the president that he doesn't consider the medical device tax, for example, to be a core part of the law. i think i mean, as far as obama care goes, it will be interesting to see how the republican party maybe sort of tweet their strategy or maybe they don't and