and shawna, there is that bubble that jim vandehei's talking about. it's also a bubble that mitt romney and people who supported him in 2012 stayed comfortably inside of, believing gallop polls that had them up 11 points, believing every report on fox news. i remember even election night -- i'm sure you do, too, in 2012 -- you still had people on fox news insisting that mitt romney was going to win and that things were looking better in ohio. and the romneys were in shock that night, as were many people, because they were inside that bubble. well, that bubble has only become smaller and intensified even more, and actually, gotten far more outlandish, especially if you look at the crazed conspiracy theories that the president is now spitting out that he finds on facebook from qanon members. >> yeah, and sort of what's interesting about jim talking about living in that bubble for a day, is we also know the president does live in that media bubble because that media diet, whether it's fox news or ben shapiro or whatever we want to talk about, also compli

joining me now with a look at axios a.m., co-founder and ceo of axios, jim vandehei. hey, jim!ig thing" this morning? >> good morning. we're looking at sort of the recession within the recession, which means, most of the focus has been on kind of the obvious casualties of the coronavirus -- the loss of jobs in the airline sector or restaurants, things that you see and feel that you were doing before that you're not. what economists are worried about now is sort of the next level of jobs, of jobs that won't just bounce back once the virus is cured. and if that's true, then that's when you have a long-term recession. and a couple of data points that are worrying them. one -- you're seeing a rising number of people who are being qualified as no longer temporary layoffs, but permanent. and then you see a rise in the number of people seeking long-term unemployment help. and that means that they don't think their jobs are coming back. and it's one of the mysteries, right, that we're trying to sort through, is once the virus is gone, how much of the economy is damaged and how long wil

jim vandehei, thank you. we'll have much more from last night's off-the-rails debate, if that's what you want to call it. and house speaker nancy pelosi will be our guest. her reaction to what happened in cleveland last night. and the national security concerns as the result of the president's massive amount of debt. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. >> i want to get our hands around a very difficult situation -- >> all right, all right, donald. >> joe, one other thing -- >> hold on, you've got to let us ask questions. >> go. >> you've got to let us talk. you've got to let us ask questions. you're just talking. >> no, i'm not just talking. >> donald, doyou're not going t keep talking. we will go to break if you're going to keep talking -- >> go to break, then, joe. all i'm doing is giving you facts and you don't want to hear the facts. >> go to break right now. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." right now we'll be right back with more "morning joe." 'm on vibrate. aa! only pay for

co-founder and ceo of axios jim vandehei. >> the one big thing is the apocalypse scenario. >> great.is a nice way to wake up the apocalypse. the idea that we can have a contested election. you may have a president of the united states who says, listen, i don't accept the results. we've seen the president now say this back-to-back days. you can't find a point in history where another president has done that. that'shyperbolic. that's actually fact. if you think about it, the president saying you may not be able to trust the vote. think about democracy. democracy without voting that's trusted is like a lake without water. it's empty. so you have democrats hiring a bunch of lawyers, preparing for the possibility they may have to fight to prove if they won that they won and that they can take power. the reason that people should pay attention to this more so than ever. look at wisconsin, ohio, pennsylvania. there's still court fights. they're still legislating about how do you count votes, how do you even vote during a pandemic and how do you validate that vote and have people trust in it

jim vandehei touched on this.his could be an incredibly close election and we could be fighting this out for weeks. there are also some signs that there is the possibility, and when i have conversations on the hill, this has been raised with me, that this could be a sweep across the map. you could be looking at all of these republican senators falling down, whether it's montana, iowa, obviously north carolina is going to be the center of it, maine, susan collins, that instead of looking at individual races on the night, we're going to be looking at a sweep and potential blowout across the map. that of course is the worst-case scenario for somebody like a mitch mcconnell. but if you read into what they're saying, the messaging that they have started to turn to, trying to tell voters you don't want one party rule, you should be concerned about democrats being in charge of everything. that tells me they're concerned about voters being in charge of everything and ultimately that's about president trump's weakness in t