john carlin, welcome to democracy now! first, can you respond to what took place on friday and then how it was you ended up being fired by the newspaper you work for for more than -- for about 20 years? >> let me answer the second part first because that happened two weeks ago. i don't really want to go into many details, but essentially, it is becacause of articles i wrote on this catalan question, political question we are discussing now. on friday, it was a momentous day, and action-packed day in history of spain -- of any country, really. because in the morning, you have elected president of catalonia declaring independence, unilaterally, and a matter of ,ours later, this is senate passing into law this for enabling article 155 of the constitution, which allows these and government to dissolve the catalan parliament, to fire the man who only hours earlier had declared independence, and to take over direct rule of all of the institutions of government in catalonia. that is where we are at now. it is a very ugly and depr

to both of you, john carlin, what's most significant about today's indictments?, two things that happened today, we have the indictments and then the release of a plea agreement and the statement of offense. taking each in turn, so the indictment, what we see today, at least according to the allegations, is that the campaign manager of a major candidate who is now president was secretly taking millions and millions of dollars from the ukrainian government that was one of putin's russia's closest allies. just to explain who yanukovych is, this is someone who was not only so close to russia that when he was deposed he fled there in 2014, but it was him being overthrown that caused putin's russia to invade and seize part of the ukraine that led to the still in effect sanctions. so that's a significance there. with papadopoulos and the plea agreement today, we now know there is an individual who has been cooperating for months and that there is someone who is on the campaign and, while on the campaign, was talking with someone he knew were in touch with russian offic

. >> rose: john carlin in washington. a moment. stay with>l+ us. we continue now with more on the mueller investigation. joining me from washington matt zapotosky, reporter for "the washington post," jefer pegues covers the justice department for cbs. here in new york natasha bertrand, political correspondent for business insider and dan abrams chief legalance analyst for abc news, matter, tell me your response to this in terms of what surprises you, if anything, about these grand jury indictments. >> i think i'm surprised by two things. one, just the breathed of the allegations here. we've got tons of alleged personal financial wrongdoing by paul manafort, by rick gates. it's covering the gam et of their work for-- gamut of their work for ukrainian interests and you have this guy george papadopoulos who pleaded guilt guilty in secret awhile back. is i sort of speaking directly to the heart of the campaign. i'm just surprised that robert mueller game out of the gate so aggressively with charges that are really broad, bot

our next guest says he expects things to get worse before they get better joining us is john carlin fromrison and forecentester, he s us from the cambridge cybersummit. so you think things will get worse before they get better hard to imagine when just about every american who has a credit rating has been hacked in this equifax issue. >> you think about it, it's no accident that we have top officials from the fbi with backgrounds at the central intelligence agency, the intelligence community, top white house officials, they're all out here talking with key executives why? because they recognize this is just the tip of the iceberg. think about what we've seen. it's not just the volume of data, billions of accounts taken, it's who is getting hit it's those there to protect us from the securities and exchange commission to equifax, a company customers turn to when they think their identities have been stolen for protection. the fundamental problem is we have moved almost everything we value into digital space, connected it through a protocol, the internet, that was never designed with secur