. >> heavy hitter john kasich, republican congressman of ohio.

former republican ohio governor john kasich who once ran against trump will join me next. next. without a prescription. astepro is the first and only 24-hour steroid-free spray. while flonase takes hours, astepro starts working in 30 minutes. so you can [ spray, spray ] astepro and go. (woman) with verizon's new myplan, i get exactly what i want. and only pay for what i need. (man) now i'm in charge... ...of my plan. (vo) introducing myplan from verizon. you get exactly what you want and only pay for what you need. and it all starts at just $30. it's your verizon. i've spent centuries evolving with the world. that's the nature of being the economy. observing investors choose assets to balance risk and reward. with one element securing portfolios, time after time. gold. agile and liquid. a proven protector. an ever-evolving enabler of bold decisions. an asset more relevant than ever before. gold. your strategic advantage. from prom dresses to workouts and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis

joining me now is for a governor john kasich of ohio. this is important because john kasich was a former member of congress. and was the chair of the house budget committee. governor, good to see you again. thank you. this is very, very relevant. the reason why i started with that was because, kevin mccarthy talked about the fact that this improves how congress works for the american public, by putting these discussions about money, spending, taxation back into the budget process and the appropriations process, which is great when you observe it and look at it. but republicans have very dirty hands on this one as, well everybody does. the budgeting appropriations process in america has been broken for years. it is why we had a government shutdown. it's why we have come to the brink on these conversations. i listen to kevin mccarthy, at his word i say great, i'm glad you are all fixing that. probably should not have happened in the course of a debt ceiling negotiation. but are you optimistic we can get back to the process in which congres

we're going to ask former ohio governor john kasich what the party can actually do to convince its votersrump, as john cornyn said, is not electable. and 21 days before a full blown crisis, why capitol hill is increasingly worried a debt default is inevitable. a debt default is inevitable we really had our hands full with our two-year-old. so naturally, we doubled down with a new puppy. thankfully, we also have tide ultra-oxi with odor eliminators. between stains and odors, it can handle double trouble. for the #1 stain fighter and odor remover, it's got to be tide. (bobby) my store and my design business? we're exploding. for the #1 stain fighter and odor remover, but my old internet, was not letting me run the show. so, we switched to verizon business internet. they have business grade internet, nationwide. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. introducing astepro allergy. now available without a prescription. astepro is the first and only 24-hour steroid-free spray. while flonase takes hours, astepro starts working in 30 minutes. so you can [ spray, spray ] astep

who john kasich i'll be honest was pretty conservative when he started out as governor. things but he is involved in a lot of important ways so i watch him being willing to stand up to call out extremism. i'm glad to see it. one of the problems on the republican side has been to new republicans for whatever reason they either agree with trumpmack and people that they don't and they've been powered and not stood up and to present the reason he has taken over the party is because so many unlike john kasich have not have the backbone to stand up and the lesson of that is unless you stand up if the other person is the only voice in the room that voice will dominate. when all those other candidates would stand up to hammers anything in disagreement although sudden he's in charge and he still is a john kasich and i'm sure a lot of viewers on the republican mind don't like it much but for someone like me who feels that lack of courage among those who know better feels we are in a crisis i give them credit. i give them a lot of credit for having the courage to stand up. we are g

. >> joining me now, former governor and republican presidential candidate john kasich, former democraticn't eugene daniels. so, governor, governor desant is trying to outtrump trump on the culture wars. in the bill he signed, it does not interfere with any federal mandates on the colleges, it is just things that are discretionary to the states. so, in any case -- >> well, i mean -- >> it does -- >> he thinks -- come on. it would be a mini trump. look, he did very well in getting re-elected in florida. and for some reason he's pivoted into these culture wars thinking that by doing this, that somehow he's going to take stuff from trump. the problem is in the process of that, he's also losing people who would -- who would look for a more normal centrist based person. the ceo of citadel, a big desantis guy, is backing off now. so, to me, his successful strategy should be to tell them all the things he did in florida. how he managed the hurricane, which was a gold star for him. but instead he's getting into these culture wars. i just don't think that's the strategy or the path that he needs t

he finished behind john kasich.and you'll remember right before super tuesday in 2016, after he dropped out, marco rubio was still in the race. john kasich was still in the race. ted cruz was still in the race. chris christie appeared on stage next to donald trump. he was really that first credible voice that endorsed the would be nominee. ultimately on that tuesday, donald trump won seven states and really became the clear front-runner for the nomination. now he says he's looking to do justice and making sure donald trump is up again. >> elise, while desantis is pointing out the differences with trump on disney and scott is being this nice guy, that is not chris christie. i want to play what he said a few weeks ago after trump denied he knew e. jean carroll. >> his response was ridiculous, that he didn't even know the woman. how many coincidences are we going to have? he must be the unluckiest sob in the world. people he's never met before are able to convince the jury he sexually abused him. if he's this unlucky,

congressman, governor, also analyst, john kasich, thanks. >> thanks. i enjoyed it.part of this special for you tonight that we cooked up. (christina) with verizon business unlimited, i get 5g, truly unlimited data, and unlimited hotspot data. so, no matter what, i'm running this kitchen. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. doors take us places. so you bought a place. to new adventures. -oh. mwah. -planned... -and unplanned. -surprise! -they lead to goals. -for you, mama. and connect us to family. i didn't get the part. your dedicated fidelity advisor can help you open those doors. but i did get waiter number 2. because they know you. they can help you create a comprehensive plan for your full financial picture and personalized money management with the right balance of risk and reward. doors were meant to be opened. (christina) with verizon business unlimited, with the right balance of risk and reward. i get 5g, truly unlimited data, and unlimited hotspot data. so, no matter what, i'm running this kitchen. (vo) make the switch. it's your bus

the university of arkansas and with us is former ohio governor and 2016 presidential candidate john kasicholitical analyst. governor, do you see any political benefits or consequences for trump implying he will double down on separating families if reelected? >> jose, i think donald trump is an avatar for the angry and frustrated and so people who, you know, who are his supporters look at the border and say what a mess, build a wall, that will fix everything and the idea you'll use children as pawns in this -- what i would call a deadly political game, it's par for the course for him and just completely and totally outrageous. who knows what the guy would do if he got in? thankfully i don't think he can get in. i don't think he can win a general election. what we witnessed last night was the theater of the absurd. a tinging to say things people know aren't true, some of his folks continuing to buy in, and, you know, this whole business of immigration, what we tend to forget, jose, is that we're all children made by the same god, and that we have to respect one another and care for one anot

fab five freddy with john kasich. i could tell you as a fak you'll matter, it the first time they've appeared on television together. we're proud to host them tonight on the beat. but first we look at the thomas's putting a cloud over the whole supreme court. my commentary when we're back with you in just 60 seconds. ld actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a gamechanger for my patients- it really works. tv: try tide power pods with 85% more tide in every pod. who needs that much more tide? (crashing sounds) everyone's gonna need more tide. it's a mess out there. that's why there's 85% more tide in every power pod. -see? -baby: ah. at pnc bank, that's why there's 85% more tide in every power pod. you can find us in big cities and small towns across the us, where our focus is to always support the people who live and work there. because you call these communities home, and we do too. pnc bank. ♪ ♪ ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ >>> turning to the widening

john kasich the governor of ohio is perhaps the best example but they believe in these principles.alked about the art of american history earlier and i want to talk about why the art changed and moved back to the kind of vision of government that president obama put forward. there are several reasons for that and if you cannot it's 1932, my march 1933 when he gets the inaugural and i'll talk about that new deal for the american people. that's the community oriented vision of theamerican people . roosevelt wanted people to work eohard government will do for the people what they cannot do forthemselves. reagan saysgovernments got into bed , we've cut back on governments . but after 20 some years that vision of america didn't work so well as a political theory anymore. hurricane katrina it didn't seem like cutting back on government and workedout very well . the rich word that had gotten huge and incorrect we had seen the big failure of an interventionist foreign policy and who was dying in iraq andafghanistan . it was militaries made up of working-class people largely. and so it seem

also joining us this morning is john kasich, former republican governor of ohio, and now an msnbc analystohn, it's always a pleasure to see you. you've run for president in the past. what's it like, you know, entering the field when you don't have a real national audience to support you? >> well, it goes state by state. look, i think the good news for scott is that i think he's coming into this with some money. the rumor is or the reports are that he's going to have a chunk of money, which is good. it's sort of a jump start. the only thing that matters in this is not money. if you're a big time gamblers and you want to be at the stable, you've got to have the poker stakes to sit at the table. where you go are from there is how you play your cards. i was thinking scott was going to have a little bit of a different message, a message that was more positive is and hopeful. i think if you try to go down on the trump politics or trump policy, then i don't know that that's necessarily a winner. because i want to know what they're going to do with these other issues on the border, with prescript

john kasich is probably the biggest example of that, from ohio. and i talked about the arc of history, and i want to talk about why the arc changed and we moved back to the kind of vision of government that president obama presented. there are a couple of reasons for that. you think about it, in 1932, march, 1933 when he gives the inaugural, president roosevelt talks about the importance of a new deal for the people. that's a community oriented vision for the american people. roosevelt wanted people to work hard, but government would do for the people what they could not do for themselves. reagan says government's gotten too big. if we cut back on government, we can help all the people. but after 20-some years, that vision of america didn't work so well as a political theory anymore. and hurricane katrina, it didn't seem like cutting back on government had worked out very well. so, the rich-poor gap had gotten huge. and in iraq, we had seen that the failure of an interventionistic foreign policy and who was dying in iraq and afghanistan, aside fro

john kasich, the former governor of, ohio is perhaps the best single example that they're because believe in these principles. now i talked about the arc of american history earlier and i want to talk about why the arc change changed. and we moved back to a to the kind of vision of government one that president obama presided. there are a couple of reasons for that. if you think about it, in 1932, night march, 1933, when he gave us the inaugural, president roosevelt talks about the importance of a new deal for the american. that's a community oriented vision of the american people. roosevelt wanted people work hard, but government would do the people what they could not do for. reagan government's gotten too big. if we cut back on government, we can help all the people. but after after 20 some years, that vision of america didn't work so well as a theory anymore. her and hurricane katrina. it didn't seem like cutting on government had worked out very well. the rich, poor gap had gotten huge. and in iraq had seemed to see failure of an interventionist foreign policy and who was dying in ir

the race in 2015, 2016 look for jeb bush assume probable nominee, he shrank dramatically, look john kasichdble the durham report indicated serially fbi justice department intelligence community news media corrupt about russian issue in 2016 that terrell helped trump because it allows him to wave that reform don't believe me look what john durham said recognize much stuff told has been a lie, the other part as biden fails, the trump years look better and better. the dilemma for governor desantis or any other candidate sooner or later you have to take trump head-on the people for trump are really for trump, so, i may in fact be alienating the very voters you want when you do that i think three polls out this morning all three polls should trump 30 points ahead i would say, by the way, i think ramaswamy may be most interesting in trump interestings complete outsider able to speak mind risk taking, watch him he is rising in the polls, this is a race for third place, pretty close to governor to vice president pence in that race. maria: look i mean, the democrats try to spin this idea that, you

different now trump has been president than it was in 2016 when jeb bush, ted cruz, marco rubio, john kasich, rand paul and so on and so forth said donald trump is not a real conservative, donald trump is not a good person. desantis saying he's not a conservative, he's damaged goods, i can win, he can't. can you sell that, go that aggressive against donald trump and keep enough of the trump voters to keep the republican nomination? >> that's what ron desantis is banking on. whether he'll be successful is something else entirely. and trump is doing some same thing he did, he's mocking him. he's coming right at him. they took advantage of the fact that his initial launch was less than desired, we'll put it that way. so i -- and desantis also has a lot of competition for that, and so it really kind of seems like we're watching the same movie honestly where you're having all these other people pulling the people who don't want trump back, and desantis hasn't really -- he's above them, but he hasn't really proved he can surmount trump yet. >> right, that is the challenge. and again, the desantis

especially to see how ron desantis is going to do whether a marco rubio couldn't do, what john kasichldn't do. and what ted cruz couldn't do. attack donald trump and survive. no one has attacked trump directly and survived. >> that would be his charge then. if ron desantis can do it and he is a fighter. the people of florida have seen it. the guy is a fighter. if he takes him on head on. and, keep in mind. donald trump has sunk something like $18 million into attack ads to attack ron desantis. and you got to figure some of the softening in his poll numbers is because of that. obviously, they are going to start returning fire as of today because he is all in. >> ainsley: it could be beneficial that he would have 8 years, possibly, and he said on monday he was teasing when he was at the evangelist event or the religious event down in florida. he said that he could pick the 7th conservative supreme court justice because, if you look at their ages, many of them are in their vefnts and could retire or, you know, pass away while their justices. you hate to talk about but something that is a

you had jeb bush and you had john kasich and you had chris christie and marco rubio who like to think of themselves as moderate centrist pro-conservatives. yet mike huckabee remember he didn't think women should use curse words. the farther right tea party adjacent ted cruz and libertarian rand paul. i'm not going to go through all the candidate because there were approximately 69 of them in that race, but the problem is they all had distinct personalities, personalities of some kind they were selling you could use to compare. but now that the republican party more or less is donald trump, not his ideas or his policies but the cult of personality trump has built-up as the maga movement, now that that is the reality of the gop, how does someone like ron desantis distinguish himself? it's not like he can run more ads of himself building walls and showing off his kids in maga onsies. well, today was desantis' big opportunity to present himself to the country as a contender. he did it at a little past 6:00 p.m. in an unprecedented way, announcing it live on twitter with twitter's owner, o

you had jeb bush and you had john kasich and you had chris christie and marco rubio, who like to think of themselves as sort of, the moderate centrists, pro business conservatives. you had mike huckabee, the christian social conservative who was big on fighting culture wars. remember, he didn't think women should use curse words. you had the farther right tea party adjacent ted cruz and libertarian rand paul and i am not going to go through all the candidates, because there were approximately 69 of them in that race. but the point is, they all had at least somewhat distinct identities, personalities of some kind that they were selling. that you could use to compare. but now that the republican party more or less is donald trump, not his ideas or's policies but the cult of personality trump has built up as the maga movement, now that that is the reality in the gop, how does someone like ron desantis distinguish himself? it is not like he can put in more ads of himself building walls and showing off his kids in maggot onesie's. well, today was desantis's big opportunity to present himsel

and you even have former governor taft, a former secretary of state, john kasich, former attorneys general, all saying that this is outrageous. i hope that we're seeing of -- the real libertarian party came out against this. very conservative groups, who themselves, want to bring things to the ballot. saying, this is too much. my hope, is by the way, backdrop. this is the most corrupt state house in the country, according to the fbi, the speaker of the house who had resigned, -- will be sentenced in june. for the largest bribery scandal in history of ohio. that's against a backdrop of corruption. that trial still pulling out. so, a state house normally would respond with reform. but they're responding, grab more power from the voters, more power for themselves. my hope, is there's enough of buildup that we crush this thing in august. one of the things that really important here, if this passes it ohio, they do operate as laboratories of autocracy, let's be clear. other states will do it. >> why stop at 60, right, -- >> crushing the ohio, so the billion, or the such big villain billionaires

that's where chris christie who finished in sixth place with just 15%, below the likes of john kasichthis a second go. a source tells me he's going to launch this bid formally in manchester, new hampshire, at a town hall this upcoming tuesday. i want to let you hear from chris christie, though, two months ago, when he was answering a voter's question about essentially what would make this go around any different for him compared to 2016 when he and other republicans notably didn't take donald trump head on in the early primary months. take a listen. >> part of what happened in 2016, i'll be honest with you, we all made a strategic error. we did. look, i'm happy to own my mistakes. i made plenty of them. i was one of them. we all kind of thought, all right, don't go after him now. because once i get past jeb and marco and john and carly and ted and, you know, then i'll have trump one on one and then i'll take him on. never of us ever got there. it was over quick. so that was a strategic error. >> reporter: and while chris christie is pulling at 0%, 1%, 2% in polls nationally, jose, wha

. >> joining me now is former republican ohio governor and presidential condition john kasich and victoriairst i heard this. i'm flabbergasted. the situation is the republican party now -- the majority of them -- i wouldn't say it's 70%, but it's maybe 55%, 60%, they have -- they are afraid of things. they are afraid of immigration. they are -- who is going to come into the country? they are afraid of technology. they are afraid of all these changing cultural issues. so you have these candidates who are playing to that fear, which i think is -- you may be able to do well in a primary, but you are not geral election. these are pocketbook issues people care about. they care about safety, rising health care costs, beginning to care about the debt. to say i'm thinking about i'm going to pardon some of these january 6 people, i don't know what he is doing. i guess -- i'm surprised at this. to me, what he should be talking about is what he did after the hurricane, what he did to attract many people to come to florida, because of the business climate, what he did in helping the everglades with th

joining us now, "the new york times" chief correspondent peter baker, former governor and congressman john kasich who also ran for president and former congressional budget office doug holtz eakin, president of the conservative think tank, american action reform. peter, the president said he's not going to negotiate on the debt ceiling with the speaker. not saying no for now using the 14th amendment to avoid default. i notice that lawrence trooib, the constitutional scholarer at harvard has an op-ed in the paper saying he's changed his mind saying the 14th amendment should be raised as the big issue which is not what he thought a couple years ago when this was being widely debated. do you think the white house is considering the 14th amendment? >> well, i think you hurled the president of the united states tell our colleague stephanie ruhle just last week that he hasn't gotten there yet. he used the word "yet" i think that's important to remember. when you use that word, suggests he might get there at some point. what he's signaling to republicans i have an option here and i may yet pull that opt

christie certainly is not going to get that much but at the same time, neil, john kasich got around 15% in new hampshire. so i think that is kind of the lane that christie is going after a littlechristie got aboun new hampshire. so that's where he can play but as far as donors, donors want to back a winner and right now christie is low in the polls. neil: a lot of those donors candidates be different now, republican candidates, than you were in 2016 where you tended to think that donald trump would be a short-lived phenomenon. you didn't take him on. this time they're saying take him on. chris christie has got to head that list of those willing and eager to take him on what do you think? >> i think he is the best at it. that's where obviously christie is making the case that listen, i can take on donald trump, i can defeat him. that's other guys are kind of subtly going after him, indirectly going after them. at some point everyone will go after him, you're right the dynamic this time around is so different than in 2016. so but christie is very good at punching but as we all know donald

then he went to new hampshire and finished in sixth place after the likes of john kasich and even jeb and doing this again, and largely it's a recognition in his own words of what he says was a strategic error back in 2015 and 2016 among the republican field. i want to let you hear from chris christie in his own words at an event in new hampshire in march. take a listen. >> we all kind of thought, all right, don't go after him now because once i get past jeb and marco and john and carly and ted, you know, then i'll have trump one on one and then i'll take him on. never got there. it was over quick. so that was a strategic error. >> and this time around, chris christie has said that he intends to do -- if he were to jump in the race like an adviser tells me he will to this next tuesday -- to take on donald trump much in the way you'll remember that notable new hampshire debate back eight years ago when he really took down marco rubio for all intents and purposes. for chris christie, it's important to note he was a major endorsee of donald trump just before super tuesday in 2016. he eve

. >> my pleasure, the republican, former republican governor john kasich of ohio, he was also a congressman in the u.s. house of representatives. he was the chair of the budget committee back in the day from 1995 to 2001. and he is also an msnbc political analyst. all, right we are continuing our breaking news coverage this hour of the deal struck by president biden and republican house speaker kevin mccarthy to raise the debt ceiling. it is a deal in principle that still needs to get through congress, but just in the past few minutes, kevin mccarthy is given a press conference with his top republican negotiators. there is also news from progressive democrats, so we want to get right to our reporters in washington for the very latest. joining me now is nbc's congressional correspondent, julie tsirkin and white house correspondent monica alba, good morning to both of you. good morning, again, to you, monica. julie, what else do we know about this agreement and how congressional members are reacting to. it >> first speaker mccarthy says he hopes to button-up that deal on a phone call with pre