so jon meacham, let's begin with you. been looking through the eyes of other presidents give advice to joe biden through their stories, their lives, and what lessons they learned, but let's talk about this event that we remember today. that is of course the bombing of pearl harbor in 1941. what can joe biden take away from fdr and this incredibly important chapter in america's history? >> well, i think the first thing is that presidents never quite know what's coming at them. history happens. that's why it's history and not an absolutely predictable series of events. you know, fdr had two of the great crises of american history on his watch. the first the crisis of capitalism, and then the crisis of fascism abroad and the future of democratic institutions, lower case d, around the world. the other is roosevelt had a remarkable capacity to lead what was even then two americas. there was an isolationist america, isolationist sentiment was incredibly strong. today is the day that pushed america. this is a very important poin

jon meacham and tom ricks joined us for that discussion. >> you are all such prolific writers, i wasn't sure where we're going to go this morning, but it strike mess that thomas jefferson and the election of 1800, what followed after that, makes perfect sense because both of you have written eloquently about it. and tom ricks, let me start with you, because we were just talking about it yesterday. some of the parallels between 1801 and 2021. >> as long as we're talking about southern politics, i used to be a reporter in georgia and i remember there was a senator who famously was asked about all of the people moving from south georgia to north florida. he said, i expected a little improvement in intelligence in both states. >> there you go. >> the election of 1800, it was a real parallel here, which is that john adams was our first one-term president. he was a crank, he was quite bitter about being turned out of office. he saw it as a demotion and a rejection by the american people. the first person ever to not get re-elected to the presidency and even more he had to turn the power over

"the washington post," david ignatius and historian and rogers chair at vanderbilt university, jon meacham who unofficially advises president-elect joe biden. >> jon, you were the first while i was developing, while i was writing the book and sort of developing my thoughts. you were the first to draw parallels between harry truman and joe biden. and saying at the time if joe biden ended up being elected there would be some parallels between the two that were too hard to miss. >> yeah, it's, you know, a coming to power at a moment where the infrastructure of the world is either under stress and strain or is fully broken. it's a moment of global consciousness, not simply intellectually but in a very tactile sense. the most tactile sense because the pandemic is a global phenomena. fdr was very articulate in the way that bill clinton and barack obama were articulate and george w. bush, too, on globalization as an idea and an emerging fact. but the -- what we're living through right now is that this is no longer a subject of kind bluff sky conversations but the world has become so interconnecte

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and this could be it. >> jon meacham?arious states, according to the constitutional procedure. and, god willing, by the end of the day, we will have seen the triumph of the rule of law over the cult of personality. >> all right. jon meacham, susan del persio, thank you for being with us. one final note. we asked beth moore to be on the show to -- following her tweet. i believe we've asked her to be on many times. she's not doing press and we certainly understand and respect that. but just know that she has been invited on the show, and we welcome her on the show any time. >> and we appreciate her voice and what she's been saying, especially given that it must be tough, given the environment she's in. >>> and that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> hi there. i'm stephanie ruhle, live in new york city at msnbc headquarters. it is good to be back with you on this monday, december 14th. a huge day in this country for the presidency and the pandemic. as we will watch history unfold

jon meacham, zerlina maxwell, always good to have you. you can watch "zerlina" 6:00 p.m. americans weeks away from losing unemployment benefits, is congress any closer to a deal on covid relief? i'll talk to a senator on the budget committee in a few moments. >>> hospitals across this country struggling to find beds for covid patients. we'll get an update from a hospital in missouri where the icu is almost full. these are real people, not actors, who've got their eczema under control. with less eczema, you can show more skin. so roll up those sleeves. and help heal your skin from within with dupixent. dupixent is the first treatment of its kind that continuously treats moderate-to-severe eczema, or atopic dermatitis, even between flare ups. dupixent is a biologic, and not a cream or steroid. many people taking dupixent saw clear or almost clear skin, and, had significantly less itch. don't use if you're allergic to dupixent. serious allergic reactions can occur, including anaphylaxis, which is severe. tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems, such as eye pain

jon meacham is here. who has been helping write some of joe biden's speeches. also the author of "his truth is marching on, john lewis and the power of hope." always a pleasure to have you on, jon, thank you so much. was it good for the country to see the president and vice president-elect laying out their priorities, in a major, prime-time interview? it makes it clear that there is going to be a transfer of power to them. >> it was a kind of flash of normalcy, right? it was like a dispatch from planet earth, as we used to know it. where you do have leaders who are totally versed in the vernacular of policy, in the details of the problems confronting the country, unique problems. and i think, historically speaking, biden and harris fit into the archtype who are not simply in it for entertainment or ego but who are, in fact, interested in not just themselves. >> yeah, and who are not in it for profit, as well. so, listen. i just want to play a clip that they -- they brought up. here it is. >> is there any lesson you take because i think this is so important. i h

. >> our coverage begins with presidential historian jon meacham. he does unofficially advice joe biden from time to time so we note that for context. ma michelle goldberg from the new york times and sally cone depending on the year democratic strategists. thank you for your political insights and i wonder what you see in this moment where so much that should be normal ceremony, the electors yesterday, these, you know, these things that happen on the senate floor have become kocome enviewed with som more because of the denial. >> yeah, there is one way of looking at it, which is that, right? we had this sense of normalcy and now that's torn us under and another way of looking at this is that this is actually been the normal operating procedure for republicans for decades and they are showing yet again they don't care about the rule of law. they don't care about the rule of the voters. in fact, the only rule they care about is minority rule preserving what is in fact a small number of economic elites in a small number of social reactirea reactions st

great discussion from both you jon meacham, meagan hatcher mace. >>> what would it take to expand the supreme court? we'll talk about that next. you can really save. save for being a new customer. save more for adding drivewise. save even more for driving safely. take another look at allstate -and start saving. visit allstate.com or contact your local agent today. don't settle for silver #1 for diabetic dry skin* #1 for psoriasis symptom relief* and #1 for eczema symptom relief* gold bond champion your skin gold bond do you struggle with dull, dry skin, and find yourself reapplying moisturizer throughout the day? try olay ultra rich. olay's luxurious moisturizer melts into the skin. it's formulated with vitamin b3 plus peptides and shea butter, providing lasting hydration, for up to 24 hours. there's no need to reapply, and no greasy residue. and, for enhanced hydration, try olay serum. just 1 drop has the power to renew a million surface skincells. for deep, lasting hydration try olay. >>> one of those maddening and to my mind stupidest news cycles during the presidential campaign wa

jon meacham's book is "his truth is marching on."r baker and susan glase are the co-authors of "the man who ran washington." and isabel wilkerson is with us to discuss her latest, "the origins of our discontent." good to see all of you. isabel, i want to start with you. you tackle the very difficult subject of race in your book, in which you describe a task system in our country, and skin color is the metric to where you fall in the hierarchy. is the awakening in our country this year for the issue of systemic racism begin to tear that apart. >> we still face disturbing levels of division in our country. this idea of racialized polarization still continues. but i do hope that some of the things that have happened over the last year, this past summer particularly, involving the sense of awakening and outrage over what happened to george floyd and breonna taylor, and so many people who have become part of our conversation -- i hope this has been leading us to some type of awakening to get past these divisions. >> brennan: jon, you prof

his truth is marching on, john lewis and the power of hope is the latest from jon meacham. susan glasser, writer for "the new yorker," and her husband, peter baker, wrote "the man who ran washington: the life and times of james a. baker the third." plus, we'll talk with two midwest governors, michigan democrat gretchen whitmer, on ohio republican mike dewine. it is all just ahead on "face the nation." ♪ >> brennan: good morning. and welcome to "face the nation." there are only four and a half days left in 2020, and the wicked blow this year has dealt is not letting up. there have been more than 80 million cases of covid-19 worldwide. here in the u.s., we've seen nearly 19 million infections, and more than 33 1,000 deaths. los angeles county alone is seeing a coronavirus death every 10minutes. washington is quiet, as the president is vacations in florida, but yesterday jobless benefits for nearly 14 million americans ran out, and the government could shut down after midnight tomorrow if mr. trump does not sign the covid relief bill. this comes after the christmas morning bom

conversation, we have historian and rogers chair and the american presidency at vanderbilt university, jon meacham biden. jon has written a number of presidential biographies, including one on presidents george hw bush, andrew jackson and thomas jefferson. also with us, acclaimed writer, journalist and author tom ricks. his latest book is "first principles: what america's founders learned from the greeks and romans and how that shaped our country." great to have you both back on the show. >> so you all are such prolific writers. i wasn't sure exactly where we were going to go this morning but it strikes me that thomas jefferson and the election of 1800 and what followed after that makes perfect sense because both of you have written eloquently about it. and tom ricks, let me start with you because we are just talking about it yesterday. some of the parallels between 1801 and 2021. >> as long as you're talking about southern politics, i used to be a reporter in georgia, and i remember there was a senator who famously was asked about all the people moving from south georgia to north florida. they sa

, unofficially advises president-elect joe biden. >> jon meacham, we may, history may owe ehrlichmanalderman and mitchell an apology with these sleazy runners of donald trump. maybe we make them statues in the national constitution exhibit, and put them next to 5'4" madison or something. i mean, compared to nixon, these guys, compared to what trump's don now, these guys are all saints. talk to us how this is really just such a low, sleazy moment in american politics. brought to you by, donald trump and his republican enablers who have quietly and silently sat by while he has just done everything he could to corrupt all four corners of american politics. >> yeah. we're in act five of a shakespearean tragedy or a greek tragedy where when you bought your ticket, you knew where this was going to end up. you know? hamlet's mother was not going to end up living a long life in a nice retirement home. you just knew hamlet was not going to reign in a peaceful way. this is the climax, i hope. let's be clear. it's only december 24th. so there's, what? 26 days to go. i think we have to be very v

. >> jon meacham, stay with us for this.people have made parallels to the nixon administration and i want to run out that parallel here on this day. this breaking news that bill barr will leave his post as the country's attorney general as donald trump's attorney general before christmastime. donald trump just tweeting that out and tweeting out a letter, we are joined now in this breaking news at the white house by nbc news correspondent monica alba. monica, what are you learning about this pre-holiday debar turay of bill barr who was the trumpiest of all trump ags? >> reporter: certainly one of his closest allies over the last number of years and in many ways it doesn't come as a complete surprise because the president, when he is frustrated with one of his top cabinet members he makes it known. perhaps we can all remember what happened with his first attorney general, jeff sessions and though bill barr never reached that kind of level of being lambasted as we can make those kinds of comparisons, we were sort of inching clo

joining me, jon meacham and author of "his truth."gan hatcher mayes is director of democracy policy. she wrote about this issue for gq magazine, the senate is broken. washington statehood can save it. there's an argument for representation just like the people of dc deserve to have representation. what's the argument? >> yes, as a dc resident all i want for my life is voting representation in congress. that would be great. it starts to address some of the structural inequities built in and the way the senate was designed was to give a lot of power to a little group of people, mostly land owning white gentlemen and to deny enfranchisement, equal representation to black people and people of color, which was largely the population of dc at the time and continues to be true to this day. to give statehood would be a huge win. huge win if you want to solve climate change, have a good supreme court and they deny power to us. so that starts to balance out the numbers problem in the senate. >> jon, i think that -- first of all, 100 is a nice,

i'm joined by jon meacham, he'sahe's also an unofficial advisor of president-elect biden. >>> and she wrote about this issue for ""gq"" magazine, entitled "the senate is broken, d.c. statehood can save it." the peep ofl d.c. deserve to have representation. there's a broader argument about balancing the structural problems in the senate. >> the argument is all i want for my life is to have voting representation in congress. it starts to address the structural inequities, built into the democracy itself. it was designed to give a lot to, mostly land-owning white gentleman and deny equal representation to black people and people of color, which is largely the population of d.c. and continues to be true to this day. it would be a huge win for everybody who wants to solve climate change or get health care or have a better supreme court because d.c. doesn't have a say because the ent is designed to give a lot and deny power to us. >> first of all, a hundred is a nice. >>> round number. but there's a sense that adding states, you can't do that. but of course, we've done it a ton and every ti

i'm joined by historian jon meacham, author of "his truth is marching on."to president-elect biden. and megan hatcher maze is dir. t she wrote a piece entitled "the senate is broken. washington, d.c. statehood can save it." there's an argument for representation just from a -- like the people of d.c. deserve to have representation. there's sort of a broader argument you make in the piece about balancing some of the structural problems of the senate. what's the argument? >> yeah. i mean the argument is, yes, as a d.c. resident all i want for, you know, my life is to have voting representation in congress. that would be great. but it also starts to address some of the structural inequities built into our democracy itself. i mean the way the senate was designed was to give a lot of power to a little group of people, mostly, you know, landowning white gentlemen, and to deny enfranchisement, equal representation to black people and people of color, which was largely the population of d.c. at the time and continues to be true to this day. so to give statehood to d

from robert carroll on lyndon johnson, to david mccull off with john adams, alexander hamilton to jon meachamn easy, pleasurable read. fourth, "humankind: a hopeful history." this is perhaps the most contrarian book i read this year. copious research to tell us a story of human beings that is the opposite of the familiar tale of competition and conflict. "the lord of the flies" was fiction, he reminds us, and points out that real-life versions of that incident revealed human beings to be, by nature, friendly, cooperative, and collaborative. it has implications for everything from corporate strategy to war and police work. and, finally, i want to recommend the book i spent many months of this year working on to try to make sense of the covid crisis and the changes the pandemic is ushering in political, economic, technological, and personal ways. "ten lessons for a post-pandemic world." let me quote from "the new york times" review. with his lively language and to the point examples, he tells the story well while resisting a boilerplate served up by the left and right. it is an intelligent and

jon meacham and tom ricks joined us f

presidential historian, jon meacham is here, who occasionally advises president-elect biden. i mean, america is in crisis, right now. they say the darkest hour is just before the dawn. is that where we are? or is it going to get darker? >> and i've always wondered if that's true, actually. actually. crisis is a great word. we use crisis in our politics because it was a medical term in the ancient world. hipp ocrates first used it. when you have 106 members of congress who are enabling this madness, you are at that kind of inflection point. i was reading today about the succession winter of 1860-'61 and how you had conflicting visions of reality that would not, could not reconcile. and there had to be this extraordinary clash of arms to do it. i don't think we're there. but there is a -- there is a sense here that we're just -- it's not that we're not talking to each other. it's not even that we're talking at each other. we're just speaking two different wages. >> you talk about the sussex winter. has there ever been an effort to invalidate millions of votes the way we're seei

i'm joined by historian jon meacham and vander built university author of "his truth" marching on andnofficial advisor to president elect biden and megan is director of democracy policy indivisible and she wrote about the senate is broken washington d.c. statehood can save it." there is an argument for the people of d.c. deserve to have representation and what's the argument? >> as a d.c. resident, all i want for my life is voting representation in congress. that would be great. it is what is built into our democracy itself. the way the senate is designed is to give a lot of power to a little group of people, mostly land owning white gentlemen and to deny infranchisement equal representation to the largely population of d.c. at the time and continues to be true to this day. so to give statehood to d.c. would be a huge win for d.c. residents but a huge win for everybody who wants to solve climate change or get health care or have a better supreme court because d.c. right now doesn't have a say in any of that because the senate is designed to give a lot of power to a very small group of

jon meacham, monica alba, robert costa, jeremy bash, mike schmitt. thank you all for jumping on the air and in jon's case staying on the air with us for this breaking news. what a couple of hours in american presidential history here "the beat with ari melber" starts right now. you're the best person to make sense of it >> that's sweet of you. i'm curious what you think, bill barr leaves certainly as a nonpartisan or objective statement one of the most controversial attorneys general since the nixon ear r the time line you were discussing sounds a little like it was what barr was hoping to get out of this including saving face. i'm curious what you think having managed white house, you know, these kind of white house situations. >> i think that, you know mike reporting that this was, you know, part of what barr wanted to be out of there, i think you have to ask why. what doesn't he want to be complicit in? if you take "the times" reporting and add what robert just reported from "washington post," that his sources are telling him to watch what happens

. >> tom ricks and jon meacham, thank you both. we really appreciate it. and that does it for us this morning. chris jansing picks up the coverage right now. >> hello there. i'm chris jansing in for stephanie ruhle. it's thursday, december 3rd. here's what's happening. we begin with alarming new milestones in the fight against coronavirus. a record number of deaths, hospitalizations and new cases all in a single day. nearly 205,000 cases to be specific. the first time we've crossed the 200,000 mark. the total is now a staggering 14 million. more than 100,000 americans are waking up in the hospital with covid. that's the first time we've seen that number. and people are dying at an astounding rate. more than 2,700 deaths reported yesterday alone. put another way, another american died of covid in just about the amount of time it took me to tell you this story. cdc director robert redfield said we could see as many as 500,000 american deaths by the end of next month. >> december and january and february are going to be rough times. i actually believe they're

and jon meacham has recently written a piece on this book for "the new york times" book review. 1866. secession may have improved impossibility but to what robert lee called the north's superior numbers and resources. their soldiers had lost. their principles, they thought, remain unvanquished. no analogy is perfect but i have never, in germany, seen anything like a conventional memorial to the second world war. i've noticed that. the philosopher susan nye has pointed it out as well. which pursues this analogy. the one i'm making now, at length. no carved or cast figure of rommel. or of hitler, himself, looms above a german city, as lee or jeb stewart has historically done above virginia's capitol. though, of course, the statues of richmond's monument avenue, they're not really meant to honor their nominal subjects. they went up around the turn of the 21st century as a way to remind us all of who was once more in charge. and now, of course, that's changing. in this very summer, as we've all seen in the news. richmond, itself, has decided to remove the confederate memorials it controls

. >> jon meacham, always wonderful to get to talk to you, especially at the end of another surreal week remembering lives well lived ♪ experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list sales event. sign and drive off in a new lincoln with zero down, zero due at signing, and a complimentary first month's payment. >>> back in march when italy was still considered the epicenter of the coronavirus pandemic. 76-year-old gionni hung a sign outside his bakery in milan. in italian, it read quote to give a hand to those in need, help yourself and think of others, too. below that sign baskets full of bread and sweets, all of it free. according to the "new york times", gionni originally opened his bakery decades ago because he wanted to sell a product that people will always need and the pandemic was proof. he was right. gionni told friends he only donated leftovers but some of them swear they saw him put out fresh bread sometimes in the middle of the day. he'd leave the food for anyone that needed it and then disappear, blessed any neighbors that feel embarrassed to collect a handout so