but even beyond with jonathan martin in alexander burns reported about senator mitch mcconnell, it is their -- kevin mccarthy's reaction, kevin mccarthy's reaction on the days after january six that are perhaps even more restricting. this is where we're gonna make some news here tonight. here is what mr. burns and mr. martin said about mr. mccarthy. quote, on january 10th, so four days after the attack on the capitol, kevin mccarthy convened a small group of house republican leaders to share his thinking. speaking with just three other top and probably ends on private call, mccarthy said he might call on trump to resign. he conferred for more than 45 minutes, with steve scalise, liz cheney, and tom amr, the minnesota congressman who led the republicans campaign committee. the usually upbeat mccarthy was audibly anguished. the gravity of the attack was still sinking in, and it seemed increasingly clear to him that he had to break with trump, it was finally time to end their alliance. his plan, mccarthy said, was to approach president trump, and tell him it was inevitable that congress

joining us now is new york times national political correspondent jonathan martin and alexander burns, though the authors of the forthcoming book, this will not pass, trump, biden, and the battle for america's future. mr. burns, mr. martin, thank you very much for venus tonight, congratulations on this book. >> thank you. >> let me ask both of, you give your chance to chime in if i got any of that, wrong or put the emphasis in the wrong, place or got any of it the wrong way around. >> no, i think you very much captured it. i would just say for the book buying audience out there, for people who work in politics, this is only the start. we have captured some of the most insane intimate sensitive conversations in the extraordinary period following january 6th, on tape. there is much more to come between now and when the book is out on may 3rd, but what you played there, really does capture, rachel, where kevin mccarthy was. he was looking for a way out. he thought trump had become toxic. he was trump's biggest ally during the four years of the trump era didn't see, and here he is looking

by the new york times reporters alexander burns and jonathan martin.

jonathan martin from the "new york times" said that's -- there's going to be more times.ut there appears to be no red line, whether it's a moral or a constitutional red line for republicans when it comes to trump, which is that trump is saying he bore some responsibility for january 6 to mccarthy. we also -- those same reporters from the "new york times" said that mcconnell agreed that trump should be impeached and potentially considered voting to convict him in the senate. mccarthy thought that he should maybe resign and yesterday, despite all of that and despite the fact he they found his conduct unbecoming to be president. they still say they woul support him in he runs in 2024 and that they would -- he would have their support in running the country. yamiche: david, potentially weigh in here. this is the story we were all talking about last night. david: what a washington moment. first of all, if you have more than two people in a rom in washington, assume that there's a tame and microphone some place. second thing is, i know it sounds like a really easy thing to do,

and then we learned tonight, a surprise to me in my interview with jonathan martin and alex burns. is that, it's amazing, mccarthy has also denied that he said that other members, republican members of congress should have their twitter accounts, the other social media accounts canceled for the same reason that trump did. he has denied saying that, they told me tonight, i was shocked, that they have that on tape too. that tape we haven't yet heard but they now say they're holding in reserve. this is very difficult for kevin mccarthy, you cannot just flat out lie about stuff like this. particularly when you're already in precarious position in these kinds of politics. it's very, very, very bad for kevin mccarthy and i will be surprised if there aren't calls for his work nation both for his resignation and sinema calls resignation based on this new reporting that they can run from but they can hide. from >> now not to make it more uncomfortable for kevin mccarthy. but just because i've only heard this once. we're going to run the tape one more time. and this is after kevin mccarthy s

we've now also got the context for wet nicholas burns and jonathan martin have reported here on this show last week, when they described kevin mccarthy expressing exasperations the social media companies, the twitter was not cutting off the accounts of more republicans, beyond just trump. as republicans continue to use social media platforms like twitter to call for violence, or to otherwise say things online that could incite. here is that tape. >> what did mora say down at that rally, though. >> it's the kicking butt and taking names thing is the one i'm seeing the most from people. i didn't watch the speech, that's a number of members said that to me, the use that term. and louise said -- didn't you say something a couple of days out that -- >> something like that, yes. it's incendiary. >> i'm, you've got maxine waters and all that stuff too. i know the dems are in a very strong position right now, we've got to start paying attention. >> brooks apparently said, today's the day american patriots start taking down names, and kicking bleep. which is i think a step further than the rh

alex burns and jonathan martin. ugh interviews now and subpoenas to learn about the president's state of mind. jonathan, you guys come with the tapes, with the audio. let's start with you first. how significant is this acknowledgment for that investigation in sorting out exactly what trump's role was? >> well, first of all, your viewers should know, we've gone inside the highest levels of american politics and this book uncovers a number of conversations that are highly revealing about the mindset of the republican party's leaders in the days after january 6th. and this tape captures kevin mccarthy insisting to his colleagues, his flock, if you will, that president trump took responsibility for january 6th. something that president trump, of course, did not do at the time and to this day emphatically rejects any responsibility, but mccarthy, feeling the heat is telling his colleagues, president trump, somebody not known for saying he's sorry, by the way, did in fact, to me, take responsibility. i think that's going t

. >> to eugene, according to a new book, hours after the riot, mitch mcconnell told jonathan martin, of the co-authors, felt exhilarated by the fact that trump put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger. that's what we're going to do in '22. it seemed as though he was in the first moments after -- on january 6 that mitch mcconnell was confiding that by putting a trigger to his own head, that perhaps donald trump had taken himself out and didn't have to force the senate into dealing with the impeachment coming, that was expected from the house side and putting the senate on the spot with whether or not to convict. >> jonathan martin and alex burns, this book, these insights into how senior leadership in the republican party in the senate and house were thinking about donald trump at that point. we saw it all play out publically. they said some of these things in public saying, we're ready to move on, telling lindsey graham -- he said he was ready to get off the trump train. i think what's most interesting and why these messages and these conversations that we have been hearing from

the authors of that book, alexander burns and jonathan martin, shared even more of that generate and call. >> i've had it with this guy. what he did is unacceptable. nobody can defend that, and nobody should defend it. >> liz cheney who was then part of republican leadership, were both on that call. they deny reporting or leaking the audio. the times reporter also released from january 11 2020 phone call, during which mccarthy tells the full republican congress the trump admitted some responsibility for the attack on the capitol. >> let me be very clear to all of you, and i've been very clear to the president. he bears responsibilities for his words and actions, no ifs, and or buts. i asked him personally today, does the hold responsibility for what happened? does he feel bad about what happened? he told me he does have some responsibility for what happened. and he'd need to acknowledge the. >> now in tonight's interview with the wall street journal, donald trump was asked about those comments, saying, quote, no, that is false, i never claimed responsibility. meanwhile, republican co

by the new york times reporters alexander burns and jonathan martin. nbc news has obtained a copy of that book which says that after the right on january 10th, 2021, house republican leader kevin mccarthy head held a phone call with other republican members, including liz cheney, and discuss asking trump to step down. quote, he envisioned telling trump of an impeachment resolution. i think this will pass, and it would be my recommendation you should resign. i've had it with this guy, mccarthy said it near the end of the call. today, mccarthy was quick to deny it all. posting on twitter quote, the new york times reporting on me is totally false and wrong. nbc news asked mccarthy's office if leader mccarthy said he would push trump to resign. a spokesman said quote no, he did not. but tonight, there are tapes. the bucks authors have just sheared this recording of that january 10th phone call with kevin mccarthy, with directly contradicts that denial. >> less, you on the phone? >> yes, i'm here. thanks, kevin. i guess there's a question. when we're talkin

on the heels of those revelations, tonight new york times reporter jonathan martin and alexander burns released more audio from the immediate aftermath of the january 6th attack. their forthcoming book released on tuesday of next week is apparently going to be accompanied by an absolute trove of incredibly disturbing audio tapes, audio recordings, of republicans speaking among themselves in the immediate aftermath of the january 6th attack. including this newly released discussion of how dangerous top republicans believed it was for pro-trump republican members of congress to keep talking in violent terms to violent and insunday yar terms about other members of congress, the way they were in the wake of the january 6th attack. >> okay. the other thing i want to bring up, and i'm making some phone calls to some members, i just got something sent now about news matt gaetz said calling people names out saying anti-trump and this type of atmosphere. some of the other places, this is serious stuff people are doing that have to stop. >> louis's comments a lot of members said real concerning

alex burns, jonathan martin, thank you. the book is "this will not pass". >>> russian tennis players now barred from participating in wimbledon. we're joined by a ukrainian tennis player who says that doesn't go far enough. and a short time from now, president biden will address the nation on russia's invasion of ukraine. what the united states is doing and is it enough? when you're tired of looking at your tired old bath, we fit your style, with hundreds of design options. bath fitter. it just fits. visit bathfitter.com to book your free consultation. (vo) wildfires have reached historic levels. as fires keep raging, the need to replant trees keeps growing. so subaru is grong our commitment to protect the environment. in partnership with the national forest foundatn, subaru and our retailers are proud to help replant 1 million trees to help restore our forests. subaru. more than a car company. my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪ it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala reduces asthma attacks it's a once-monthly a

the caucus met for the first time since alex burns and jonathan martin released audio of a phone call house republican leaders in the aftermath of the january 6th attack. audio that we played on this show yesterday of what kevin mccarthy really think of the most extreme members of his own caucus. the audio reveals that mccarthy was worried that the rhetoric coming from the likes of matt gaetz would get democratic colleagues hurt or even killed. it reveals that the number two house republican, mr. steve scalise thought that comments by gates could be potentially illegal. here's a bit more from those tapes. take a listen to mccarthy saying, he can't put up with inflammatory rhetoric from his members. >> what did mo brooks say down at that rally, though? >> it's the kicking [ bleep ] and taking names thing is the one that i've seep the most from people. i didn't watch the speech, but that's a number of members said he heard that term. >> and louie said like we need to fight or something, right? didn't he say something a couple of days out that was horrendous? >> it was something like tha

perspective from alex burn and jonathan martin.thy put out a statement today responding to your reporting saying, quote, "the new york times" p's reporting on me is false and wrong. comes as no surprise that the corporate media is doing everything it can to further a liberal agenda. if the reporters were interested in truth, why would they ask for comment after the book is printed? what is your response? >> well, anderson, i think our response would be is we have iron clad confident in our sourcing on this information. and the sort of broad strokes attack on reporters, on the media is the kind of unconvincing denial that i think people have come to expect from kevin mccarthy on these kind of sensitive subjects. what our reporting on this book shows there was a crucial window immediately after january 6th where the republican leadership in congress recognized the danger that donald trump posed to the country, and at least in private said they were going to do something about it, and then ultimately, they chose not to. and anderson,

one of the book's authors "new york times" reporter jonathan martin asked mcconnell about his feelings on the violence and mcconnell said, quote, i feel exhilarated by the fact that this fellow finally totally discredited him investment now, this is according to the book. and the excerpt was obtained by "the washington post." mcconnell also said about trump he put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger. couldn't have happened at a better time. mcconnell also reportedly asked martin what do you hear about the 25th amendment? eager for intel about whether the cabinet and the vice president might remove trump from office. who knew. republicans. they think just like us. but that is where the similarities end because unlike the democrats and their leaders, they did absolutely nothing about it. joining me now is msnbc political an lit former rnc chair michael steele and former u.s. senator from alabama doug jones who is a distinguished senior fellow at the center for american progress. thank you both for being here. it is pretty remarkable, gentlemen, to find out that these men are complet

joining us now, alex burn and jonathan martin, the authors of the upcoming book "this will not pass,ica's future" which you can preorder right now at independent bookstores, amazon, barns es & noble or whatever. your book offers fascinating examples of how the top two republicans in congress initially believed that the january 6 interaction would be the end of trump's political career. you write this, house republican leader, kevin mccarthy, called trump's conduct atrocious and totally wrong. he vented, i've had it with this guy. take us inside mccarthy's mindset at the time. >> in those days immediately after january 6th, what we show in our book there is a real recognition among donald trump's closest allies in the house, of which kevin mccarthy is a first among equals, that he went way over the line. he specifically tells other house republican leaders that trump is responsible for inciting people, that is what donald trump was literally charged with in impeachment. said he's going to call him and tell him it's time for you to go. it's a very different kevin mccarthy from even the

alexander burns and jonathan martin of the "new york times" released the tapes as part of their reporting for their new book "this will not pass." in these recordings mccarthy planned to tell trump that he should resign, that of course never happened and just weeks after the violent insurrection, mccarthy made a special trip to marla goe to capitalize on a photo-op with donald trump and he's back pedaling and claiming things are fine. you know, keep moving people, nothing to see here, right? here's mccarthy yesterday talking about his phone call with the former president. >> my conversation is very good because the conversation here is what they said we did, we never did. i never asked president trump to resign. we both talked about that. we've talked about -- >> reporter: did you speak with him about resigning? >> let me be very clear. i have never asked the president to resign. >> there is a lot to keep up with in this story so here's allie raffa on capitol hill. >> reporter: you can clearly hear kevin mccarthy saying he would urge president trump to resign after the events on january 6

it's worth repeating, this will not pass, alex burns and jonathan martin.lican members, because he believes they, too, had a hand in this. he was prepared to tell donald trump he should resign, majority leader mcconnell felt the same way about donald trump and said so privately to everyone who would listen saying i'll repeat the quote you just said, if this isn't impeachable, i don't know what is. that's a quote from mitch mcconnell. >>> coming up, a salute to service members, how a planned parachute jump triggered an evacuation on capitol hill. now nancy pelosi is demanding answerss. "morning joe" is back in a moment. >>> . "morning joe" is back in a moment. >>>. "morning joe" is back in a moment. isn't impeachable, i don't know moment. >>> ♪♪ . >>> so willie, it appears that, first of all, let's talk about the capitol being evacuated yesterday. it appears that somebody at the washington nationals pr department forgot to send one extra e-mail. >> oh lord. >> saying we will have this plane flying overhead over the nats stadium and drop people out of it open

and i will note, garrett, that some of those things that are in this book by jonathan martin and alexsaid publicly. he said publicly trump was to blame for the insurrection, although he later walked those things back. so i think, listen, i think that kevin mccarthy, his main goal is to neutralize -- anything from neutralize to ensure the support of donald trump and everything he does should be viewed through that lens. >> and ali, mcconnell, and you alluded to this, doesn't look at trump quite the same way, obviously. they haven't spoken in more than a year. how should we interpret his silence when confronted with questions about whether or not he said these things? >> it's kind of the way he deals with us on a daily basis up here. when we ask him, for example, about the ways in which he has or really hasn't corresponded with trump since he left the white house and of course since january 6th itself. even just a few weeks ago when those white house call logs came out that showed that the former president placed a call to mcconnell, i tried to ask him did you call the former president

trump after the january 6th insurrection based on a brand new book by "new york times" reporters jonathan martin and alex burns, an excerpt shared with "the washington post," mcconnell is described as exhilarated by trump's political implosion. the sick part is that it took mutilated capitol police officers and our own damaged democracy to get mcconnell that animated on the topic, but i digress. here's how "the washington post" describes the new reporting on mcconnell, quote, i feel exhilarated by the fact that this fellow finally totally discredited himself, mcconnell told jonathan martin, one of the authors of a new book called "this will not pass" when asked about his feelings on the violence and the rioters. trump, the kentucky republican said, was pretty thoroughly discredited by this, quote, he put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger, mcconnell said standing in a doorway of the capitol after midnight. quote, it couldn't have happened at a better time. well, not so fast. the disgraced ex-president and the big lie still loom large over the party, which has gone all in on disinformation

. >> reporter: the tape is from "new york times" reporters jonathan martin and alex burns, back. thaup upcoming become "this will not pass". when they reported mccarthy told republicans he planned to call trump and tell him to resign, the republican spokesman said, quote, he never called him to resign. >> what i think i'm going to do is i'm going to call him -- this is what i think. we know it will pass the house. i think there's a chance it will pass the senate even when he's gone. and i think there's a lot of different ramifications for that. now, i haven't had a discussion with the dems that if he did resign would it not happen. now, this is one personal fear i have. i do not want to get in any conversations about pence pardoning. again, the only discussion i would have with him is that i think this will pass, and it would be my recommendation it should be done. >> reporter: mccarthy's harsh words about trump would soon be a distant memory. three weeks after january 6th, he visited the former president in mar-a-lago. >> jonathan karl joining us not studio. you're also learning

mcconnell told jonathan martin, one of the authors of the new book entitled "this will not pass," whenpulled the trigger, he said. standing in the doorway of the capitol after midnight, couldn't have happened at a better time. the book, as reported by the "washington post," alleges mcconnell asked martin what he heard about invoking the 25th amendment and that he had spoken with democratic leadership about issuing a joint statement, telling trump not to attend the inauguration. the authors write that senator mcconnell planned to cut into trump's influence on the gop in the upcoming midterms, similar to how he weeded out far-right candidates in 2014. we crushed the sons of -- you know whats -- he said to martin, according to the book. adding, and that's what we're going to do in the primary in '22. a spokesman for senator mcconnell declined to comment on the book. despite his strong stance against trump in the immediate aftermath of january 6th, just weeks later, mcconnell voted with the majority of senate republicans to absolve him of any punishment. mcconnell's office declined to comm

he denied it, as willie said, reported from a new book by political reporters alex burns and jonathan martin that mccarthy wanted donald trump out after the january 6th capitol attack. it is a logical thought, by the way, and reaction to that attack -- >> everybody else was saying the same thing at the time. >> mccarthy had a call with house leadership in the days after the attack in which he said he planned to call donald trump and tell him it was time for him to go. >> yeah. >> but the denial from his team yesterday was in no uncertain terms. his spokesman saying, quote, mccarthy never said he would call trump to say he should resign. >> lordy, lordy, lordy. there are tapes. >> yeah. the authors of the tape provided the audio to msnbc, and just ahead we are going to play that for you. >> willie, i'll tell you what else we are going to do. we are going to talk about -- like kevin -- what did donald call him? >> steve. i think he still thinks he is steve. >> yeah, steve, steve mccarthy, the former future speaker of the house. he -- 2016, remember all of the republican leaders were together a

alexander barnes and jonathan martin the reporters. the recordings were obtained in reporting as part of their forthcoming book, this will not pass, trump, biden and the battle for america's future. we saw the first last week after they published their first story in which mccarthy was talking about, in the tapes, his plan to ask then president donald trump to resign and plans about possible impeachment proceedings. those have only continued in the days since. phone lines as usual, republicans, democrats, independents. john is up first, a republican from pennsylvania. good morning. caller: thank you for having me on cnn this morning. hunter biden's story has been out. mccarthy is a liar. he is a rino just like mcconnell. they need to get rid of these clowns. every day, you find something to beat up on the republicans. yesterday, you had your wife or somebody writing an article, megan mcardle? host: no relation. caller: yeah. i don't understand how you cannot do anything against joe biden and the democrats but are on these tapes that th

. >> reporter: the audio tapes obtained by "new york times" reporters jonathan martin and alex burns for their upcoming book "this will not pass" show that mccarthy was worried that some of his own colleagues, republican members of congress, are fueling the violence. >> this is serious stuff people are doing that has to stop. >> reporter: he mentions republican congressman matt gaetz, saying he is going to call him to tell him to knock off his incendiary rhetoric. >> i'm calling gaetz, i'm explaining to him, this is serious [ bleep ] and cu this out. >> reporter: he is so concerned, he asks why twitter, which had recently banned donald trump, cannot ban some of his fellow republican members who he believes are inciting violence. >> can't they take their twitter accounts away, too? >> reporter: the audio shows that mccarthy was genuinely and rightly concerned about more violence breaking out in america. but his suggestion that twitter should ban the accounts of some of his fellow republicans more than anything that has come out so far will be used by mccarthy's enemies and complicate

alexander barnes and jonathan martin the reporters. the recordings were obtained in reporting as part of their forthcoming book, this will not pass, trump, biden and the battle for america's future. we saw the first last week after they published their first story in which mccarthy was talking about, in the tapes, his plan to ask then president donald trump to resign and plans about possible impeachment proceedings. those have only continued in the days since. phone lines as usual, republicans, democrats, independents. john is up first, a republican from pennsylvania. good morning. caller: thank you for having me on cnn this morning. hunter biden's story has been out. mccarthy is a liar. he is a rino just like mcconnell. they need to get rid of these clowns. every day, you find something to beat up on the republicans. yesterday, you had your wife or somebody writing an article, megan mcardle? host: no relation. caller: yeah. i don't understand how you cannot do anything against joe biden and the democrats but are on these tapes that th

according to the fourth coming book this will not pass by "new york times" reporters alex burns and jonathan martin unlike mccarthy that denied this reporting, mccollum decided to stay numb. republican leadership is rebolding to a twice impeached thirst for power struck at the heart of our democracy but these tapes make mccarthy's position in the party highly questionable. he must face the twitter pitch forks of the maga cult wing of the party. he has a rabid republican takes him out or trump keeps him in place. either way, mccarthy is walking a tight rope as he vies to become house speaker. joining me now is rick wilson, former republican strategists and co-founder of the lincoln project and democratic strategists juanita toliver and michael beschloss. we got lots more. is this in your view a sign that within the caucus there are those who simply want to throw kevin mccarthy out of the way or something else? >> there is no question, joy. there are a half a dozen as asprants to the thrown and had a closer relationship than trump had. in 2016 putin and trump had hostility and trump never forgets a s

and reporters jonathan martin and alexander burns write that biden was even more critical of fox corps patriot robert murdoch saying murdoch "was the most dangerous man in the world." think about that. think about what that really means. more dangerous than putin, more dangerous than xi, more dangerous than kim jong un. ok. and as the "angle" has told you many times, today's democrat party believes conservatives are a far bigger threat to america than the biggest dictators in the world. we warned you about this. remember, more evil than the dictators that have nuclear weapons pointed at the united states, and, well, we were right. now, but some people require more direct proof. now, let's take the case of andrew sullivan, the supremely talented writer and well-known commentator who wrote the seminole book for gay marriage and is extremely anti-trump. perhaps he thought that his withering criticism of trump would have earned him fair treatment as a guest on a show hosted by the ever-snarky jon stewart. but he was wrong. instead, formerly insisting that the story of america is not one of

the caucus met for the first time since alex burns and jonathan martin released audio of a phone callermath of the january 6th attack. audio that we played on this show yesterday of what kevin

these insights from to reporters jonathan martin, and alex burns. nbc news also had excerpts from the book. according to the times, they evoked the 25th amendment and remove trump from office. and on january 10th 2021, as they were talking about impeaching trump a second time, he said that he was going to tell trump to stand down. -- and it will be my recommendation that you should self resign. mccarthy even wanted peace book -- wondering if the same could be done for republicans like -- yes, kevin mccarthy who publicly railed against big tech censorship, used in private about taking away right-wing twitter accounts. but soon, his public spinelessness would resurface. mccarthy was at mar-a-lago just three weeks after the insurrection. all smiles of the former president. the cynicism is appalling. but certainly not surprising. nbc news asked mccarthy's office if he would ask trump to resign, or if he would have parties in the caucus, a spokesman says he's denying. it -- burns and martin reports that there are senate majority leader, then senate major

as part of their new book, jonathan martin anthan martin a burns obtained audio of kevin mccarthy slammingident trump for his actions on a conference call with fellow republicans. >> i've had it with this guy. what he did is unacceptable. nobody can defend that and nobody should defend it. >> he told house gop members that trump accepted some responsibility for what happened that day. >> he bears responsibilities for his words and actions. no ifs, ands, or buts. i asked him today, does he hold responsibility for what happened. did he need to acknowledge that. >> he also said that it was once his recommendation that trump resign from office. >> discussions i had with him is that i think this will pass and it would be my recommendation we should do that. i think that would be my take, but i don't think he will take it, but i don't know. >> of course, that audio was released after mccarthy's office denied he ever said that. mccarthy stating privately that trump should resign from office raises all sorts of questions like why can't he say that publicly to this day? and why did mccarthy then go

exactly happened, why he has done these pivots and why he denied what is so clearly on tape as jonathan martin, the author of the new book, was able to present to rachel maddow last night on msnbc. >> i want to play more that much audio. here it is. >> now, so far congress member liz cheney and steve scalise have denied leaking this audio. how is this going to play out in the caucus, you think? >> i think that's the most interesting question here. trump and mccarthy have sort of a topsy turvy relationship but always in one direction, with mr. mccarthy trying to satisfy mr. trump. when i interviewed the former president last year about this, he was very aware of the power he has over elected republicans, including mr. mccarthy because so many of their own voters care about the relationship that trump has with elected republicans in congress. and it's so important to keep mr. trump satisfied because of that. so i don't think the issue here is necessarily will this impact trump and trump's relaugsship with mccarthy or vice versa. will trump look for another candidate for speaker of the house if t

different in light of newly released audio from "new york times" reporters alexander burns and jonathan martinthat trump should go. take another listen to the audio we played in the last hour. >> are you hearing that he might resign? is there any reason to think that might happen? >> i've had a few discussions. my gut tells me, no. i'm seriously thinking of having that conversation with him tonight. the only conversation i would have with him is that i think this will pass, and it would be my recommendation you should resign. i mean, that would be my take, but i don't think he would take it. but i don't know. >> it would be my recommendation that he resign. he, donald trump. those tapes were first aired when my colleague, rachel maddow's program last night. liz cheney denies recording or leaking any recordings from the call so she does not know how "the new york times" reporters had them, have them. there's also this audio, more mccarthy comments from the same call with republican leaders just days after the insurrection, a striking admission from a man who had been one of trump's staunchest d

writers alexander burns and jonathan martin have receipts including audio of mccarthy telling republicanuy and mccarthy said he planned to advise trump he should resign citing an impeachment resolution in the house. >> there are discussions that i would have with him is that i think that this will pass, and it would be my recommendation you should resign. >> but then that reporting dropped. mccarthy denied ever pushing trump towards the exit. >> let me be very clear. i've never asked the president to resign, so what the book said was not true. all i did was walk through like anybody would what are the different scenarios that would happen, and all we did was put out different options. >> and just to be clear, the book never said he told trump to resign. it was that he said he told other republicans that he would offer -- he would give his counsel to trump and tell him to resign. he have says he actually never followed through on that, but senator elizabeth warren, she is not about to let him wriggle out of this one. >> kevin mccarthy is a liar and a traitor. this is outrageous, and that

mentioned to some extent, you also saw with senator mitch mcconnell after january 6th, alex and jonathan martinso reporting that mcconnell told a friend, i didn't get to be leader by voting with five people in the conference. and when i saw that, it just rung, like, hit me as a very good window into just what politics really is, as we know it and also, the fight for two men to try their best to stay in power. >> 100%. i mean, you said it exactly right. it's what politics really is, and when you see the exceptions to that in that people do things that might be to their political detriment because maybe they think it's the right thing to do, for example, what liz cheney says she's doing, that's the exception, not the rule. and mitch mcconnell did not get to be the senate minority leader as for a while, the senate majority leader by doing an unpopular thing. he has fallen in line, effectively, with donald trump, even though we know that the two don't like each other, even though we know trump would love to get rid of mitch mcconnell. mcconnell went from believing that trump should be impeached, th

are part of the reporting for the upcoming book "this too shall pass" written by alex burns and jonathan martint we have to do is these numbers on either -- whatever position you are calling out our members need to stop. tension is too high. the country is too crazy. i do not want to look back and think we caused something or we missed something and someone got hurt. i don't want to play politics with any of that. >> leadership call, huh? i wonder who would have leaked that. the number two house republican steve scalise was also on the call. at one point when discussing congressman matt gaetz, scalise reported the florida republican may have even crossed a legal boundary. >> i just got something sent now about newsmax and matt gaetz said where he's calling people names out saying anti-trump and this type of atmosphere. in some of the other places. this is serious stuff that people are doing that have to stop. if i'm going to get another briefing from the fbi tomorrow, this is serious [ bleep ]. >> potentially illegal what he's doing. >> well, he's putting people in jeopardy. and he doesn't need

more relief >>> and the latest excerpt from jonathan martin and alex burns' new book.ass and gop leader mitch mcconnell thought the insurrection would finally be the end of donald trump. according to an exexcerpt, he said i fell exhilarated that this fellow finally totally discredited himself and donald trump put a gun to his own head and pulled the trigger and couldn't have happened at a better time. they come as cnn obtained more than 2,300 messages mark meadows handed over to the january 6th committee. nbc news las not been able to independently confirm them all. but one exchange between georgia congresswoman marjorie taylor greene and former chief of staff mark meadows days before president biden's inauguration is standing out. greene text meadows, quote, in our private chat with only members, several are saying the only way to save our republic is for trump to call for marshall law. joining me now is capitol hill correspondent natalie vitale and national correspondent and msnbc contributor betsy woodriffe swann him i'm not surprised by the mitch mcconnell comments

in an article based on new york times journalist jonathan martin titled this will not pass.veal in the days following the january 6th riot, mccarthy said he would push president trump to resign because of his role in it. mccarthy claimed the story was totally false and wrong. that's a quote. a fabrication of the corporatist media, as he calls it. his spokesman outright denied that mccarthy told colleagues in a gop leadership meeting that he would urge mr. trump to leave office, but here's the thing. there's actually audio of it. msnbc obtained that audio. it first aired on the rachel maddow show on thursday night. mccarthy said the only discussion i would have with him is i think this would pass and it would be my recommendation you should resign, end quote. and what he says by i think this would pass it's clear from the context of the conversation that he means impeachment. then just yesterday the same new york times reporters revealed even more recordings of mccarthy and the reveal here is that mccarthy said president trump actually admitted bearing some responsibility for

there's a new book from new york time reporter jonathan martin and alex burns.ay's taking aim at the progressives and in other words, the squad for her party's woes. one excerpt from the book obtained by punch bowl news states that pelosi's concerns that they have alienated both hispanic and asian immigrants with loose talk of socialism. the way they spoke about abortion and another excerpt reveals that nancy pelosi called out radical squad members especially aoc and others, for vying to be the queen bee. there were and may be serving the minority after november. we also reached out to pelosi's office for comment. the spokesperson said under the speaker's leadership, house democrats have made historic progress of the american people. we are unified. also taking a shot of republicans but declined to comment on the actual quote calling it mere gossip. here with reaction, fox news contributor's tammy bruce and joe concha with us. i look at this and we know it's true. i said for the longest time that the real leader -- speaker of the house is aoc. that nancy pelosi

details are included in a new book "this will not pass: trump, biden and the american future" by jonathan martinled his thinking to others including the top senate republican mitch mcconnell as he tried, the former president, tried to enlist others to help his scheme. manu raju, in trump's view brian kemp was the first domino. if he could flip kemp, the other pieces would fall into play. >> this is right after the election, right after he had been called for donald trump to have lost the race, that joe biden won. in trump's mind then and now there was widespread fraud, the election was stolen, joe biden did not win and they needed to do something to change that. what he told leaders in this call according to the book is brian kemp was key, that brian kemp had to decertify what happened here and then as a result of what happened in michigan and pennsylvania they would follow suit and he tells the republican leaders, mitch mcconnell and others, that he had spoken in two other states and had some assurances they would also follow suit. mcconnell didn't respond and said we have to focus on georgia,

joining us, "the new york times" jonathan martin and alex burns. book coming out on may 3rd that has made quite a lot of noise, titled, this will not pass, trump, biden, and the battle for america's future. thanks for sharing first on "the lead." let's start by playing the audio. >> the other thing i want to bring up, and i'm making some phone calls to some members. i just got something sent now about news from matt gaetz where he's calling people's names out, saying anti-trump and this type of atmosphere. and some of the other places. this is serious stuff people are doing that has to stop. >> mo and louis's comments, a lot of members have said some real concerning things. >> did they say something today, too? >> mo was at the rally. the kicking ass and taking names thing at the trump rally. >> this is more. >> what did gaetz say? >> gaetz said, gaetz on that list specifically, i saw that on twitter. >> someone just sent it. gonzalez just sent it to me so i'm calling gaetz, explaining to him. i don't know what he'll say but i'm going to have other

rachel, it all began on your show when jonathan martin and alexander birds revealed the tape, what wasat considered the tape, the mccarthy tape. and you ask them, was anything else taped? turns, out a lot more of a state. and we are now in week two of the rolling mccarthy tapes. >> and, when i had mr. martin and mr. bryan's on the show, and we play the tape of him talking about asking trump for his resignation, which mccarthy out was specifically the night saying, they immediately, said one of the other things that he did, and i've seen this reporting in this book, that advance cop in part of the book, was that mccarthy had asked for social media companies, twitter, to cut off other republican members of congress in the same way that that cut off trump. and when they describe that to me, i was shocked when they said that there was also tape of that. that in, fact there is, that's part of the tape those released a night, and those one of three tips released an. there is a lot out there. kevin mccarthy's life is getting more and more the vehicle by the second, but it's not like there's a

but jonathan martin at "the new york times" suggesting it was something that was needed. >> i would say it all. >> i think it gets the point across. >> i think so. >> phil, i want to start with it feels like a white house that is afraid of making some tough decisions for fear what could be the worst case scenario and it is because of what happened. >> they have made calculations to go all in on this domestic spending agenda. you were there in the white house, simone. and spent months trying to win over those votes in the senate and only got part of the agenda through. build back better has not made it through and now the polling is so week for democrats right now. there is a real fear and anxiety with the party but especially within the white house to do whatever they can to shore up those vulnerable democrats and try to prevent any further losses to sort of stabilize the economy, and address the inflation issues, handle ukraine in a way that keeps the popularity numbers where they are without dipping further. >> simone, you were there in the summer of '21. why isn't the president out t

host: the audio came out yesterday as part of the reporting of alexander burns and jonathan martin.hey have an upcoming book, they work for the "new york times." breaking in the "new york times" thursday. "i have had it with this guy, gop leaders privately blasted trump after january 6. in the days after the attack, kevin mccarthy and mitch mcconnell told associates they believe president trump was responsible for inciting the deadly riot. andvowed to drive him from politics. mr. maccarthy went so far as to say he would push for trump to resign immediately, saying, "i have had it with this guy." here is some of that recording. >> you on the phone? >> yeah, i am here. thanks, kevin. i guess there's a question when we were talking about the 25th amendment resolution. >> yeah. >> you asked, what happens, is there any chance he might resign? is there any reason to think that might happen? rep. mccarthy: i have had a few discussions. my gut tells me no. i am seriously thinking of having that conversation with him tonight. i have not talked to him in a couple days. from what i know of him

. >> those private discussions were part of the reporting for an upcoming book by jonathan martin ando phone calls to mar-a-lago, and a lot of explaining mccarthy's efforts appear to have worked, trump telling "the wall street journal" this, i didn't like the call, but almost immediately as you know, because he came here and we took that picture right there, you know the support was very strong, i think it's all a big compliment, frankly, they realized they were wrong and supported me. and joining me now with their reporting and insights, kat lynn lucy of the "wall street journal," eva mcken of cnn, politico's rachel bade. mccarthy is denying that he said he would talk to trump about resigning, take a listen to how he's explaining it. >> let me be very clear, i have never asked the president to resign. so what the book said was not true. all i did was walk through like anybody would, what are the different scenarios that would happen, and all we did was put out the different options. >> we all heard what he said. i don't want to relitigate that, but do you believe that he is out of th