joyce vance from the northern district of alabama, legal analyst. ron, senior aide to vice-president biden, and president obama and the senate judiciary committee. he is an advisor to joe biden's 2020 presidential campaign. congresswoman demmings, thank you for joining us after this busy week. what do you believe are the next steps for the intelligence committee? will there be more witness interviews and depositions or public testimony? >> well, lawrence, it's good to be with you. and let me just say today we heard from two very powerful witnesses, as you've already talked about. what a way to finish the week. today was really the last day of scheduled witnesses. you know, we'll regroup next week and talk about the steps moving forward. but i believe what we have heard from these very courageous, very dedicated foreign service officers who, as you've indicated, felt a moral obligation or a duty to do the right thing has been their testimony, the evidence against the president is overwhelming and pretty clear and convincing. >> now, you are one of th

and joyce vance, over to you. this certainly does not paint a picture of a deep-state conspiracy.hat it does though is shed new light on the attorney general's role he seemed to have pumped up some sort of conspiracy. so what lasting thoughts does this leave you with? >> well, on two hands, as adam pointed out, this discloses that there were some issues with some of the lawyers over at the fbi. problems like that need to be rooted out. they need to be taken very seriously. the good news is that that indication is that that isolated issue impacted any of the work that was being done by the fbi here. it didn't result in a prosecution of carter page. and the important takeaway is that everything that president trump has been saying for the last couple of years about the deep state and the effort by the obama justice department to attack his campaign, that's all been made up. none of it was true. but it was fomented and it was really put into progress as much as by the president by his attorney general bill barr who famously went in front of congress and talked about spying, which is

joyce vance, former u.s. attorney. natasha, political national security correspondent. andy carny, new york times white house correspondent. and david jolly, former republican congressman from florida. all are msnbc contributors. joyce, we played some of the best hits if you will that happened this past week. what do you think assisted the democrats in their case they need to make as they go forward to put together their report going to the senate? >> well, the democrats at this juncture are doing something that's roughly the equivalent of -- of indicting a criminal case. that's not maybe a precise comparison. but it's good enough for this purposes. they're deciding whether or not there's sufficient evidence to charge the defendant -- or to charge the president -- with articles of impeachment. so this is sort of a lower standard inquiry than when we get to a trial. and given the overall evidence, you know, we don't look at one witness in isolation. we look at all of the evidence in combination. it seems very clear that, combine these witnesses that have come forward and

joyce vance, natasha bertrand, andrew carny and david jolly, former republican congressman from florida. all are msnbc contributors. joyce, we played some of the best hits, if you will, that happened this past week. what do you think assisted the democrats in their case that they need to make as they go forward to put together their report going to the senate? >> well, the democrats at this juncture are doing something that's roughly the equivalent of indicting a criminal case. that's not maybe a precise comparison, but it's good enough for this purpose. they're deciding whether or not there's sufficient evidence to chang charge the president with articles of impeachment. this is sort of a lower standard inquiry than when we get to a trial. given the overall evidence, we don't look at one witness in isolation. the witnesses who have come forward and now documents that are beginning to trickle in make it very clear that there's sufficient evidence to proceed with articles of impeachment. >> natasha, as these documents come in and reporting on these 100 pages coming from the state departm

and yet he had to think about seriously making this deal in many ways with the devil. >> joyce vance,at's your reaction when you hear republicans say, look, in the end ukraine got the aid so what's the problem? >> you know, one of the problems with this administration, lawrence, is that so much happens every day that it's hard to keep track of it. but i can remember back in the early days of the mueller investigation where republicans said, you know, it's one thing if it's just colluding. if there was an actual crime, then we can talk. but as long as there's not an actual crime, there's nothing serious here. and what we have with trump's conduct in ukraine is an actual crime. it bribery statute makes it illegal for an elected official, a public official to seek something that's of personal value to them in exchange for being influenced in an official action. we wave through all this but at bottom what we have is a crime. there's no other way of looking at this, and that makes the response, the lines of attack that we see from republicans all the more per plexing. >> and wendy sherman,

joyce vance also with me, former u.s. attorney. both are msnbc contributors. we have the rare opportunity to actually see each other in person, not in that double box, that tv box as i call it. tomorrow this thing goes public as we've been talking about. we just heard from garrett haake, we expect lawyers to be asking questions of the witnesses, perhaps in addition to lawmakers or maybe in some cases in lieu of. if you were the lawyer for the democrats, joyce vance, what would your key questions be? >> democrats have already had the opportunity to talk to these witnesses behind closed doors. they've done the investigative part of this. now they have to prepare the congress to make the decision about whether or not to vote for articles of impeachment. that means it's time to put together a narrative. democratic counsel, when he does his questioning, will have about 45 minutes to tell a simple and compelling story, like what a prosecutor would do in the courtroom. it doesn't do anyone any good to bring in extraneous facts. this is the time to tell a simple story

joyce vance, brett bruin. the president, of course, has those in his cabinet.we have the attorney general, who is currently undertaking his investigation, potentially a counter narrative, right? you heard from steve scalise, one of his criticisms of what's happened so far, that the whistle-blower, him or herself, was politically motivated. democrats, who is this person? is this going to work in terms of a counternarrative, a defense by republicans? >> the democrats are laying out their witnesses and the republicans are pushing back really hard to try to discredit the witnesses that are coming forward and to also paint this picture of entrenched for their political advantage. the record of these witnesses cuts against that. it's going to be apparent for the viewers and american people who will see these people testify, as we saw last week come forward, to make a judgment when they see these people on television and their faces and hear about their track record and what they have to say. that argument, i think, from republicans will be tested by reality when thes

joyce vance is back with us.uliani said, i am not but i do have very good insurance. if he does, still all my hospital bills will be paid. could he also have the insurance that he's in the middle of the impeachment inquiry in any crimes donald trump committed could jue simply give up donald trump to save himself? wouldn't that be what he would naturally want to do? >> you know, joy, his lawyer was quick to step into that call and caution reporter that rudy giuliani was joking. this comes off as an implied threat than an actual joke. maybe he did not mean it that way. certainly as you point out, rudy giuliani has to be one of the biggest threats to this president. as long as the president keeps rudy giuliani close he's safe. if rudy giuliani for whatever reason feels threatened and decides to cooperate with investigators and tell them about his conversation with the president, their goals in ukraine, he could be the ultimate and direct evidence. we started this hour by saying congressman on the republican side of

>> i don't know. >> joyce vance, it was a thing to behold, and nrnunfortunately came after about tenquestioning by members of the committee. it seems like they've learned their lesson? >> i think they have learned their lesson, and the important takeaway here is that this is not a happy moment in our country. this is a sad event, a serious event. we need to get to the truth. that's not a political statement, neither party owns the truth, but the country needs to understand what happened so we can move forward, and the best way to do that is to have traditional questioning to have someone who will help to complete the narrative and have witnesses tell their stories about what happened. now we'll finally get that. >> ron klain, having worked on a committee yourself, senate judiciary committee, is it a struggle with members in situations like this because they all have their moment in front of the microphone, and the constituents can see them back home in the big moment to get them to give up that time? they will all still have a chance, but none of them are going to be better than the

joining our discussion now is joyce vance, a former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama. and ambassador wendy sherman, former under-secretary of state for political affairs in the obama administration and an msnbc global affairs contributor. and ambassador sherman, as you read this account, this kind of day by day account of what was going on in ukraine, aides to the president of ukraine thinking maybe we do have to say this in order to save the country, were it not for the whistle-blower and were it not for politico, which is to say were it not for a free press and a whistle-blower, who knows what might have happened. >> indeed, lawrence. this is incredibly tragic. you know, we heard from george kent today in that transcript that he's a foreign service officer who believes his job is to really insist on the rule of law. and it appears that masha yovanovitch, the ambassador, lost her job because she pushed for the end of corruption and the rule of law of in ukraine, and that wasn't liked because it got rudy giuliani in presid

. >> the impeachment will be televised, and after this break joyce vance and ron klain will bring theirble experience of our discussion about what we will see in the televised impeachment proceedings against donald john trump in the house of representatives. that's next. trump in the house of representatives. that's next. oh no,... ...a cougher. welcome to flu season, karen. is a regular flu shot strong enough... ...to help prevent flu in someone your age? there are standard-dose flu shots. and then there's the superior flu protection... ...of fluzone high-dose. it's the only 65 plus flu shot... ...with 4 times the standard dose. and it's free with medicare part b. fluzone high-dose is not for those who've had a severe allergic reaction... ...to any vaccine component, including... ...eggs, egg products,... or after a previous dose of flu vaccine. tell your healthcare professional if you've ever experienced severe muscle weakness... ...after receiving a flu shot. if you notice ...other problems or symptoms following vaccination,... ...contact your healthcare professional immediately. sid

peter baker, joyce vance, frank, thanks for starting us off. when we come back, sean hannity is walter cronkite? a famous beloved historian claimed on this network earlier today that it just might be the thing that breaks the fever of tribalism in our country. but will it ever happen? also ahead, donald trump says goodbye to the big apple and heads to the sunshine state. and new yorkers seem just fine with it. we'll go inside donald trump's complicated relationship with new york, and ask if anyone is going to miss him. and the 2020 democrats set their sights on iowa. we'll go inside the tight race, in that state, that chooses first, all of those stories coming up. >>> i do wonder, if we're in an age now, where the only thing that could threaten donald trump would be a cronkite moment on vietnam, asking what the hell is going none vietnam, after tet. except this time it is a fox news moment, it is a rupert murdoch moment that breaks the tribalism at some point. >> that's a good point. are we in an age where sean hannity is walter cronkite and pa

times, eli stokels, joyce vance. and frank figliuzzi is here. andrew, i want to start with you.nd i just want to ask you a simple question. what kind of question was marie yovanovitch? >> incredible. as a trial lawyer this is exactly what you want to call as a witness. i think the republicans were smart not to follow the president's lead and she basically spent their time -- it was really a smart strategy not to do that. but it left an enormous gap between where the president was and where the republicans were. it was basically a love fest once the questioning started. we are praising her which i think you really had to do. she was that kind of witness that you really could not attack her. >> so the democrats are trying to do in public what you and your colleagues did in private. they are trying to build a case and present it to the public and build public support for a simple assertion that the president abused his power by asking the leader of a foreign country to dirty up joe biden and reopen the settled question of who meddled in the 2016 election. what part of that story do

neal katyal, joyce vance, we thank both of you. enjoy your weekends. we appreciate your time.nd after the break, there was george pop dop laos, paul manafort, cohen, and gordon sondland. the president brings back his old i barely knew the guy defense. we knew it was coming. home andd for all their hard work and sacrifice. we all sleep easier knowing you're out there keeping us safe. and on a personal note... sfx: jet engines ... i just needed to get that off my chest. thank you. geico: proudly supporting the military for over 75 years. dad..amazing honey.hing. ♪ kraft. for the win win. i'm off to college. i'm worried about my parents' retirement. don't worry. voya helps them to and through retirement... dealing with today's expenses ...while helping plan, invest and protect for the future. so they'll be okay? i think they'll be fine. voya. helping you to and through retirement. doprevagen is the number oneild mempharmacist-recommendeding? memory support brand. you can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. >>> republican lawm

heilemann, the co-host and executive prauser of show time's the circus and an msnbc contributor joyce vancend senior writer at "politico" and co-author of the play book, jake sherman. he's an msnbc political contributor, and we have full coverage ahead of the impeachment proceedings against president trump. also in the headlines this morning, president trump will host turkey's leader at the white house today, the same autocrat who ordered his body guards to beat up protesters the previous time he was in washington. and explosive new polling from iowa showing mayor pete buttigieg at the top of the pack. a lot to unpack there. but first this morning, the first televised public impeachment hearings get underway into president trump. donald trump is the fourth president to face impeachment proceedings by the house of represent representative, the third in recent times. polling this month shows 49% of americans say president trump should be impeached and removed from office. 47% say he should not. today's hearing will open with testimony from acting u.s. ambassador to ukraine, bill taylor and de

attorney joyce vance who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor. yce, a few questions for you right off the top tonight. viewers of this network in primetime tonight know we're dealing with something of a breaking news story. a traunch of documents has been freed up via a court order. i'm wondering what you make of it this. a number of them apparently show multiple contacts between secretary of state pompeo and rudolph giuliani. some are going to see if this accounts pompeo's lack of air support for his actual employees. >> so this is about 100 pages of documents that have been released. nart not the full amount that was asked for. and they've been provided to an oversight organization. it's interesting because congress hasn't been able to access these documents by subpoena or request to the white house. but one piece of good news is they appear to still be honoring court orders. it was a federal judge who ordered these documents be turned over. tlrs will be, i suspect a lot of burn ogof the midnight oil to read them. the early reporting is there is

let's bring in joyce vance. ned price, ncs spokesperson, and joel ruben. ned, let's start with you, these officials deciding not to show up, two are national security officials. what were democrats hoping to get from them? >> they were supposed to be guardians of the law, they are senior legal security officials. we know they were not safeguarding and upholding laws and parameters the national security coordination and oversight, but new this case they seem to have been a key part of the cover up or at least one of them. the senior lawyer on the nsc staff was the attorney to whom several white house officials complained in the immediate moments and days after the july 25th phone call and rather than raise his concerns up the chain of command, he decided to place the draft transcript on the code word classified server. it is said to have the most covert of details. and instead, it seems that he really started what then unravelled into a much larger and broader cover up. so i expect that is what democrats wanted to find out. why did this individual think it

joyce vance. i hope your husband's chili was excellent yesterday. let's talk lawmakers -- >> it was outstanding. >> it sounded like it would be. lawmakers are going to bring the public into this office. from a league standpoint, how do democrats make their case. >> so they will build it brick by brick putting the evidence in front of the american people. which i think is the challenge here. getting people to pay attention. in this case the transcripts that have been released, now what they will face is whether or not they can make a comp compelling case that convinces people that whether or not this is the trump scandal of the week. yesterday on "meet the press." jim himes gave a preview. >> they are beautifully articulate. >> they muddy the works, and they extorting a country by holding up military aide. >> how do you think that democrats can make a case this week? >> the congressman is right. they are testifying, and this is the unique week in this process it will merge. americans are here and learn about why russia invaded you yan. why they are t

attorney joyce vance. good evening to both of you. joyce, taking the wider view that we get to do sometimes, what strikes you as an investigator in just how quick all of that happened and what it sets up as the judiciary committee prepares for these future hearings? >> i think that the speed with which this unfolded is one of the most interesting features of this entire process in front of the intelligence committee. you know, typically the president is quick to come up with a new conspiracy theory or a reason that he shouldn't be held accountable as events unfold. but here the pace of testimony was so quick, the drop of news every day of expands detail was so fast that the president literally couldn't keep up. and i think that's one of the smart parts of the process in front of the house intelligence committee is that speed of process. >> yeah, you mentioned he couldn't keep up. a lot of us in news rooms and those of you who report with us were just amazed, maya, when the president was literally at the un. so, we know from what he was

attorney joyce vance who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor. joyce, a few questions for you right off the top tonight. viewers of this network in primetime tonight know we're dealing with something of a breaking news story, a tranche of documents has been freed up from the state department via a court order. i'm wondering what you make of this. a number of them apparently show multiple contacts along the way between secretary of state pompeo and rudolph giuliani. some are going to be looking here to see if this account for pompeo's lack of air support for his actual employees. >> so this is about a hundred pages of documents that have been released. it's not the full amount of documents that were asked for. this is just the first tranche. they've been provided to an oversight organization. congress hasn't been able to access these documents by subpoenaing a request to the white house but one piece of good news here is that the administration appears to still be honoring court orders. it was a federal judge who ordered that these documents be tur

mya wiley, joyce vance and barbara mcquaid. thank you all very much for being here. going to throw this out there because i'm sure there are a lot of people at home who might be watching this and heard me talk about these new rules and you today process rights for the president. and thinking, well, wait a minute, i thought that the trial was supposed to take place in the senate. how is it that in the impeachment inquiry the president is getting all of this -- all of these rights, if up? please explain this to me. >> well, jonathan, it is a fair question. because i think that a little bit what have we're confusing here is this notion of here is what happened during nixon and here is what happened during clinton and they got all these rights and therefore we have to keep doing that. two things. one, they didn't as you said, they did not have the process that is currently laid out by house democrats. what is really happening here is impeachment is a process where the constitution leaves the rules too the house arul rules to the house and senate. house on the investigati

i want to welcome joyce vance, a former u.s. attorney and maya wiley. welcome to each of you. there's so much happening now. i would like to get to all of it. joyce walk us through what it means when chairman nadler said they are announcing the hearings. maya, i'd like you to walk us through that they have budget officers resigning over these issues, the ukraine plot and glen when you're up third, i want you to tell us what it means that donald trump is distancing himself from rudy giuliani tonight. start with you, joyce. >> we'll be heading into a new phase of the process. it's important to remember that what necessitated the hearings in the intelligence committee was there was no special counsel. there were no investigators gathering facts. that's the mission they have undertaken. they will send the facts along with colleagues on the foreign relations committee and the oversight committee for s judiciary to take a look at. it would play the role that lawyers would play. assessing the facts. looking at the law and making a decision about whether there's sufficient evidence to

austin evers, scott wong, joyce vance, thank you.r sunday and have a great thanksgiving week ahead of you. all right. we do have some other big news this hour if this wasn't enough for you. former new york city mayor michael bloomberg says i'm in. y. when you shop with wayfair, you spend less and get way more. so you can bring your vision to life and save in more ways than one. for small prices, you can build big dreams, spend less, get way more. shop everything home at wayfair.com driven each day to pursue bioplife-changing cures...ers. in a country built on fostering innovation. here, they find breakthroughs... like a way to fight cancer by arming a patient's own t-cells... and a new therapy that gives the blind a working gene so they can see again. because it's not just about the next breakthrough... it's all the ones after that. - [narrator] forget about vacuuming for up to a month. shark iq robot deep-cleans and empties itself into a base you can empty once a month. and unlike standard robots that bounce around, it cleans row by

attorney joyce vance, also former u.s. attorney and social editor, amy is here, some of our closest repo historic day. phil rucker, take us through it. >> nicolle, i don't think anybody would be surprised to hear that it is chaotic and disruptive, and indeed, it is chaotic. they can't get on the front page and this has been going on for two weeks since the impeachment inquiry first began. there was an effort to provide efforts on capitol hill and weren't armed with the information they need to do so, and now you're seeing the split between the white house chief of staff and the white house counsel. those are the two most important figures in the impeachment defense of the president and of the administration who can't get on the same page, have been rivals now for several months and building, and those tensions are exacerbating just at the moment when the president needs them to come together and unite to defend his very presidency, which is at stake starting tomorrow. >> i know from being in the white house, it had a lot o

to joyce vance, ben rhodes, happy thanksgiving. kristen welker, we'll bechoring "nbc nightly news." congratulations on all that. >>> and good news to start your thanksgiving holiday, president jimmy carter will be able to enjoy thanksgiving dinner at home with his family. the 95-year-old carter had successful surgery to relieve pressure on his brain from falling in his home weeks ago. we wish president carter, his wife rosslyn, and all the carters a happy thanksgiving. >>> and why a comment from eight years ago is coming back to haunt pete buttigieg. that's why at aetna, we're committed to taking care of the whole you. with medicare advantage plans that offer health coaching and fitness memberships. plus hospital, medical and prescription drug coverage in one simple plan. with monthly plan premiums starting at $0. aetna medicare advantage plans call today to learn more and we'll send you a $10 visa reward card with no obligation to enroll. medicare annual enrollment ends december 7th. o♪ ozempic®! ♪ oh! oh! (announcer) people with type 2 diabetes are excited about the potential of o

vance, a former u.s. attorney, familiar with some of these details. joyce, there are two parts as charlies h charlie has been illustrating. he makes public claims if they were to testify they would exonerate him, but the second part, the executive branch is making cases in court, supported by the attorney general of the united states, bill barr, that do seem counter to what the constitution intended the presidency to have the power to do and, in fact, these efforts are being rebuffed by the courts? >> right. well let's dismiss the first part of that just right off the bat. we know if these witnesses were favorable to donald trump, if they had anything exculpatory to say, we would have already heard them testify. we know that that's not what trump is doing here. and i think charlie is dead on the money when he says everyone is a hypocrite when it comes to expansive executive power so long as they're the one holding the presidency. what we see is the sort of gradual drip, drip, drip. if there's one lining to this president, it's the inevitable recalibration o

prosecutor and msnbc contributor jill weinbanks, nbc.com think contributor kurt, and back with joyce vance i know you would look at that and say, there's a lot of details you're missing, richard, but we can't go through them all. but was that the key moment? what might lead up to the key moment this time around, where we have the one republican who said, i'm going to vote to impeach? >> i think the key moment for watergate was the final release of a smoking gun tape in which the president was heard discussing committing a crime. using the cia to stop the fbi from investigating the original break-in. but here we have a lot of smoking guns. i would equate the conversation between zelensky and trump has another smoking gun. in obvious, plain sight, you have a commission of a request from a foreign power to help in his own personal benefit for his political gain. that, to me, is a crime. and then you have in addition to that pulling troops out of protecting the kurds. that's another danger to our national security and to our allies. so, there's a lot of things i say equal the smoking gun. and

attorney joyce vance tonight to get her thoughts on why igor fruman's attorneys might be pitching thisthis way to his home detention and his ankle bracelet. she told us, quote, he's likely upset that probation is doing routine financial considerations on him because he's afraid they'll uncover evidence of other crimes. joyce says, quote, hilarious. been there before with defendants. for what it's worth we don't know what information was learned after igor fruman agreed to home detention and wearing the ankle bracelet, information that his lawyer says will now convince the judge igor is a flight risk and he should be able to take that ankle monitor off, but we'll find out tomorrow at that hearing. i kind of can't wait. watch this space. g. i kind of can't wait watch this space and save in more ways than one. for small prices, you can build big dreams, spend less, get way more. shop everything home at wayfair.com panera's new warm grain full of flavor, color,. full of- woo! full of good. so you can be too. try our new warm grain bowls today. panera. food as it should be. stop dancing aro

i turn now to former federal prosecutor joyce vance and john flannery as well as emily bazlan from "the new york times" magazine. john, this sounds like very damning testimony -- >> yes. >> -- from maybe one of the worst people with the closest hands and action on the bribery plot for the trump white house. >> right, it does. it's an important piece of corroboration for the others that seem to come forward unblemished and talk in full voice about what happened. i have the feeling from this that reading his statement that he's still a reluctant declarant, if you will. in his statement he says he had his recollection refreshed and so forth. but he comes to the table and makes very dramatic statements, nonetheless. he admits to the quid pro quo, he admits to a conversation that he had with the president in october before he testified, although he minimizes what the content of that was. but the most significant thing is going to the question we all say quid pro quo, the bribe. the exchange for the president's need to have something happen while he withholds the money that is necessary for t

attorney joyce vance joins us, michael steele, former chairman of the rnc is here.t the table kimberly atkins, senior correspondent for boston's public news station, "new york times" political reporter nick confessori, and contributor for the bulwark, tim miller is here. kim, i have to start with you. you could not make up, you know, a new cycle to prove that everything that fiona hill tried to tell donald trump behind closed doors fell on deaf ears, then to put donald trump on fox and friends where he repeats the conspiracy theories that she and tom bossert and john bolton tried to beat out of him for three years. >> you are absolutely right. and not just the very convincing testimony by fiona hill, but a culmination of two weeks of stories which all fit together to paint this picture of this, which she called this domestic political errand that was completely divergent from u.s. policy and that was focused specifically on getting information about joe biden and hunter biden in exchange for either a white house meeting, which the ukrainians wanted a phone call, or

. >> melissa, one of our legal experts, joyce vance says eisenberg needed to clear things up when ite to his decision to move the call transcript in to a secret system. take a listen. >> placing this nem-con on the code word server which is not the ordinary way which these memos were stored looks very bad, and it is there for one of two reason, either he wanted to hide it from people or perhaps an outside chance that he wanted to preserve it to make sure others didn't destroy it. >> with the new details that he told vindman not to discuss the call, what does it look like to you? >> it could look like a lot of things. this is an unorthodox administration that hasn't played by the rules on a lot of measures including things like executive record keeping so i think the real question was, was it moved to that server for the purpose of obscuring it from public view or oversight or simply more just kind of odd shenanigans that this administration routinely does. they don't follow regular procedures. i think it really is a question of, is this just routine stupidity or something that is act

also an msnbc contributor, joyce vance. msnbc national security analyst, jeremy barb, who served as former chief of staff at the cia and the department of defense joins us. and msnbc national security analyst, ned price, who is a former senior director and spokesperson for the national security counsel, where alexander vindman worked. jeremy bash, let me start with you. all day long, a theme kept coming out with the republicans wanted it to or not. lieutenant colonel vindman has a single ideology and it is patriotism and service to the united states. that seemed to be this inconvenient fact that republicans kept trying to squash and quash and smear. in your view, do you think they landed any punches? what do you think the impact was of this first session of testimony today? >> well, on the call, i thought colonel vindman was very effective. per his training, per the way he was taught in the united states army, he told the truth. he laid out the facts, he talked about the fact that gordon sondland had told the ukrainians tha

senator from missouri and current msnbc political analyst, claire mechanccaskill, msnbc contributor joyce vance. two big flash points this morning, two moments that will be remembered long after this morning's public session ends. one, lieutenant colonel vindman correcting a harsh line of questioning from devin nunes, the president's mini me in the house, if you will, who called him mr. vindman. that followed an opening statement where he said to his father, dad, it's safe to tell the truth here. the second flash point, devin nunes seemingly trying to out the whistle-blower with a line of questioning there. claire, what stood out to you this morning? >> i think, once again, the witnesses have been called clearly are not political. i mean, for gosh sakes, this woman worked as a field -- in the field for bush/cheney running for president and then found her way into the foreign service from a clearly political beginning of her career, so any attempts to couch these witnesses and how powerful was that opening statement of lieutenant colonel when he said in russia, if i were in russia and speaking t

joining me now, mya wiley, barbara mcquaid and joyce vance. let's start with sondland.ni, president trump, secretary pompeo, secretary perry, brian mccorm k mccormick, mulvaney, and his senior adviser rob blair. ambassador taylor, ambassador volker, a lot of senior officials, everyone was in the loop. >> and that sounds like a witness list. and the question is whether or not the house will try to call these witnesses who seem like the logical people about to want to talk to next. right? and they will all probably say no. but here is an interesting piece. there is a way that in the actual impeachment trial in the senate there might be a way to get them to talk. and it says here if the house were to go to the district court, any ruling would eventually be appealed to the stre supreme court. but chief justice roberts would preside over the impeachment hearing. he'd be the judge. he could in theory make rulings there on the bench on the evidence and the power of the senate to compel systtestimony essentially moving directly to impeachment the house would get its best chance

joining me now, timothy o'brien and also mya wiley, barbara mcquaid, rob reiner, and joyce vance.s first. the reason that we started with thatduper panel. rob to you on this first. the reason that we started with that clip, people don't know who bill day already is. but people didn't know who ron dean was either. so you start out with the unknown characters and then it will be something that they say that captures the entire thing. give democrats a little advice here on how to bring about those moments. because what we've seen has been itch if iffy. sometimes it has been strong and sometimes it has not been strong. how can they make this simple, straightforward and easy to understand but also bring it home so people understand what they are dealing with? >> well, i think a lot of that will rest on the questioners. i mean, we'll have career professional prosecutors who are going to do the questioning. and the way they point their questions will narrow the responses that they want so you can make it clear for the audience. but like you said, nobody knew john dean before he testified

. >> you didn't -- >> joining me now is joyce vance and former u.s. attorney, mayy wiley and barbara mcquaid, nbc contributor and former u.s. attorney. thank you all for being here. joyce, i'll start with you first. let's go back to the second thing i talked about. this was the fact that donald trump has claimed that when he was talking in july to the president of ukraine that he never asked him for anything. they backed that up with claiming that on september 7th and september 9th he literally says the words no quid pro quo. he knew there was a whistle-blower complaint that busted him for trying to get something for ukraine. do you think that information, that maybe there wasn't a second call at which trump says i departments want anything and that he knew that there had been a whistle-blower complaint. how devastating is that to his defense? >> so the problem trump really has here is that he never had had a defense. even if all of this happened add sondland testified and trump claimed in the follow up and he said no quid pro quo. i didn't want anythi

and msnbc contributor, maya wiley, professor at the new school and legal analyst for msnbc, and joyce vanceters in law, let's jump into it. barbara, i'll start with you first. the conviction of roger stone, substanti substantively, what does it mean regarding the mueller investigation and what might it mean for donald trump? >> i think the most significant takeaway from the stone conviction, joy, is that truth still matters. roger stone himself said nobody cares about telling the truth anymore, and i think it shows that it does matter, that people can be held accountable for their lies, and it does matter. it does cause me to wonder, what if roger stone had been truthful? what would robert mueller have been able to put together and find out? and that is why we take it so seriously when people lie to investigators, because it has the tendency to thwart the investigation and the quest for the truth. going forward, i think it's perhaps even more significant because all of those witnesses who are going to come before congress in the coming weeks, like gordon sondland and others, have to be look