they were a reminder of how this incident has changed so many lives forever. >> think about, joyce vance, the fact of just watching the video can affect a life. imagine having to witness the life draining out of a human being in front of you on that street corner. joyce, talk about the prosecution goal in front-loading these emotional and sincere witnesses. >> so the science that prosecutors operate with, brian, is the science of primacy and recency. when jurors go into the jury room to deliberate, the pieces of evidence that they take with them the most strongly are the first thing they heard and the last thing they heard, recency. the best witness the prosecution has in this case is the videotapes of george floyd's death. so they were front and center this early in the trial. we will see them, i think, throughout the trial as many times as the judge will let the prosecution play them. but expect to see them again in closing arguments so that they are the last piece of evidence that the jury takes with it when it begins its deliberations. >> eugene, somewhat thankfully you are to take u

i want to bring in joyce vance, she's a former u.s.ool. she's also an msnbc contributor. shaq, we will start with you. what do we know about the fourth juror? what else can you tell us about how day three is shaping up now? >> reporter: jeff, the jury selection process is anonymous. we won't have our eyes on the juror. we are pulling out clues from the questioning phase that we are listening to. we know this fourth juror, he is a man. he is from central minnesota. we know he has a wedding coming up in the beginning of may, which can conflict with jury deliberations. don't worry. the judge said they will make sure he makes it to his wedding. he will be joining three other jurors seated yesterday. two of them are white men, an auditor and chemist. another is a biracial woman in her 20s or 30s. you have both sides asking interesting questions to these potential jurors. one thing that the prosecution is making clear about is that they are keeping a close eye on the racial makeup of the potential jury. i want you to listen to an exchange we

attorney joyce vance and chuck rosenberg who served as attorney in the southern district of virginia and texas. chuck, let me go to you in terms of what you heard today from both sides that was, you think, new and important as they presented their first -- their first arguments to the jury? >> yeah. i thought it was predictable on both sides, andrea. it doesn't mean it wasn't important. the prosecution did what prosecutors do in linear faction. they tell the story of the crime and they tell the jury what they should expect to see and hear from witnesses including from medical experts and toxicologists and the like because so much of this case is going to turn on the cause of death. what was the reason that george floyd died? the prosecution, of course, will say the reason was derek chauvin, a bad cop. the defense, i imagine will say it was the fact that mr. floyd was unhealthy and had drugs in his system and that it wasn't chauvin who directly caused his death. on the other hand, we got exactly what we would expect from the defense attorney which was reasonable doubt, ladies and gent

jacobs and former united states attorney and professor at the university of alabama school of law, joyce vancee is also an msnbc contributor. good morning to both of you. thank you for being with us. joyce, michael cohen felt even more enthused than he normally is about what he believes the manhattan d.a.'s case is with the new prosecutor that they brought in, sort of a mob buster, mark pomeranz. he says the paper talks. >> it's a bit unusual to see a potential witness or at least someone who is providing information to prosecutors out in public opining on the strength of prosecutors cases. leaving that aside, the manhattan d.a. seems to be sending out plenty of signals to prosecution watchers that he is serious about this case. the focus on allen weisselberg, the trump organization's cfo, who is in position to be really the tour guide to the entire trump organization, puts vance in a position to uncover wrongdoing, long suspected, now he has the documentary evidence. if it's there, i think we can expect him to indict the former president. >> shana, a lot of people are trying to make sense of

attorney joyce vance. >> michael, not to have you comment on another paper's reporting, but there doesthis story and i want to know what you have on this angle. "the washington post" is reporting tonight on this alleged extortion plot that reportedly this -- gaetz was approached by two men -- not gaetz, his father reportedly was approached by two men, people familiar with the matter said who had no apparent connection to the sex crimes investigation of congressman gaetz other than having somehow learned about the investigation somehow before it was publicly reported, and essentially offered if he would give them a bunch of money to try to locate robert a. levinson, the longest-held american hostage in iran if the operation was a success it would win favor with the u.s. government, that is a weird, convoluted thing and i'm not sure if it even sounds like extortion. do you have any information on that >> so yesterday as we were prepared to publish our story we spoke to gaetz on the phone and he laid out for us this scheme that he said has been cooked up against him. i found it difficult

let's bring in yamichal sindhor and joining me is joyce vance, good morning to both of you. joyce, let me start with the civil suit. i was speaking to eric swalwell's lawyer last night. this is the second civil suit, something that mitch mcconnell said at the end of the impeachment was that no one is above the law including the former president and there are ways in which he can be held to account. so i assume these civil suits are ways that trump and others can be held to account. what is the likelihood of them succeeding and what is the difference between that, a normal trial and what happened in the white house -- in the senate, i'm sorry. >> yeah. sure. so these civil cases are a very interesting aspect of the search for accountability. we've seen the flawed impeachment procedure despite evidence. we're looking at the criminal process and criminal investigations ongoing too early to conclude whether that would ultimately reach former president trump and his inner circle. these civil cases are a direct and potentially more quick route for the american people to gain the tr

meagan fitzgerald is outside the courthouse for us, joyce vance, former attorney and msnbc contributor and host of cross conviction an emotional one that had to see a break. sorry, joyce, we'll have to jump in i apologize. i'm so sorry let's cross back into the courtroom. >> you may step down if you can take the bottle of water with you, that would be great. >> we're done? >> we're done. thank you for coming in. sidebar? >> joyce, i'm going to let you finish that. to tell our viewers what they saw there charles mcmillan has been dismissed and the defense decided not to cross examine him. i'll let you finish your thoughts in evaluating this witness. >> mr. mcmillan was an incredibly credible witness, explaining conversations he had with george floyd and former officer chauvin. if i was the defense lawyer in this case, i would not have cross examined him he would only have done more damage to the defense, the kind of damage they took on cross examination from witnesses yesterday. apparently, they saw that, too and after conferring, they made a decision that they would not ask any questio

. >> joining me is pete williams and joyce vance., just legally, what's the import of having this sedition charge? what does that entail? >> well, it's -- i think, more symbolic than it is in terms of the range of statutes that the government has. i mean, it does carry a 20-year maximum sentence, but so do some of the other charges that have already been filed such as obstruction of a government proceeding. the element of the sedition statute that would apply here and you usually think of sedition of conspireing to overthrow the government and there was another part of the federal law saying anybody who conspires by force to delay, hinder or delatex kugz of any law of the united states and of course, that was the day congress was trying to carry out the electoral counting act, a law trying to decide who formally was elected president. so that's how that would fit. i will say i think it's a little unusual for somebody who is still a justice department employee to talk like this and say where they think the evidence is going to go, but

i'm joined now by joyce vance, a former federal prosecutor. thanks for being here. about $0.60. you are a top prosecutor. you should be at 100 to 100. let's talk about a few of these things. is it as weird to you as it is to me that we still don't have an official cause of death for officer sicknick, or is that sort of a prosecutorial strategy to withhold that? >> i think it's less a strategy and more reflective of the fact that there's a lot going on. this is a big complex case. they'll get the coroner's report when they get the coroner's report, but something that's really important here is that that report not be prosecution oriented, that the coroner just do her job or his job and weigh in on what the actual cause of death is here. >> got you. all right, let's talk about the sedition charges. do you think they're likely, and can you define what that means under law? >> sure. so sedition is -- and this is seditious conspiracy, so it's entering into an agreement to use force to disrupt a government operation, in this case to keep congress from certifying the outco

an awful lot at take for him in the civil cases. >> joyce vance, former u.s. and msnbc contributor. good to see you, joyce. thanks very much. >> good to see you, too. >>> coming up -- >> it is awful living here knowing that you won't make it to be old age. >> one louisiana town's fight against pollution and clouds of gases in a place they call cancer alley. ♪ and a little bit of chicken fried ♪ ♪ cold beer on a friday night ♪ ♪ a pair of jeans that fit just right ♪ ♪ and the radio up ♪ get 5 boneless wings for $1 with any handcrafted burger. only at applebee's. gillette proglide. five blades and a pivoting flexball designed to get virtually every hair on the first stroke. so you're ready for the day with a fresh face for a fresh start. for a limited time get a 5th cartridge free. bipolar depression. it's a dark, lonely place. this is art inspired by real stories of people living with bipolar depression. emptiness. a hopeless struggle. the lows of bipolar depression can disrupt your life and be hard to manage. latuda could make a real difference in your symptom

joyce vance, current university of alabama law professor and one of our esteemed msnbc contributors. you spent a lot of your career working to expand voting rights. we have georgia this week, talk about that and what happens if these other 42 that have constricting voting in their states. >> we have elections in all of the different states and they're governed as we are acutely aware by different laws and different rules in every state. so what we see as so many of the pieces that you just played for the audience touches upon is this notion of moving the goalposts and republicans didn't expect to lose in 2020 and now those state legislatures are changing the rules and hope they can win in 2022 and moving forward despite the fact that the american electorate is changing, the demographics are changing and there are more minority voters and republicans seem to believe that they can boast win not by coming up with policies that appeal to those voters, but instead by restricting access to the ballot. >> yeah. among these measures, joyce, shortening runoff election times and it will be 28

attorney joyce vance. joyce, the defense fought to get one of those charges thrown out.t argued to come in in the first place? >> the defense wanted to throw out the murder three charge. this is what prosecutors refer to as a depraved heart or as they call it in minnesota, a depraved mind charge. it essentially argues that the defendant was so reckless about taking human life that even if he or she lacked the intent to commit murder, that reckless disregard for life is tantamount to having some form of intent, but here's the sticking point. typically these charges require that that depraved heart exists towards a group of people. for instance, that the defendant shot a firearm into a room full of people and was depraved in that sense, was reckless in that sense. so the defense argued that because chauvin's conduct applied to only one person, the prosecution couldn't bring a murder three charge. the minnesota appeals court said that that was not the case, that it could be applied in a situation like this so the judge reinstated that murder three charge. that's critically

i want to bring into the conversation to help us evaluate what we are seeing so far, joyce vance, a nbc news news contributor, retired sergeant cheryl dorsey. joyce, i want to get your general takeaway of what we have seen particularly with the second witness. the first witness, a straightforward presentation of trying to establish a timeline. what do you make of this prosecution's witness, 23-year-old alicia oiler, i believe, who worked at the speedway away the way from cup foods? >> this might seem like a curious piece of testimony for folks who have been watching it but this is a building block. ms. oiler apparently took much of the bystander video we have seen. she had a perspective from across the street of the three officers as they

attorney joyce vance. shaq, take me through the emotion aal terrain and what's becoming a pattern, the eyewitnesses express trauma and guilt they didn't do more to save the life of george floyd. >> reporter: the common word is helpless people felt helpless watching that instance and you see the prosecution providing a fuller picture of what happened this time and this morning we saw that new video inside the cup foods where george floyd allegedly handed over that $20 bill, that fake $20 bill and heard from the clerk that accepted the bill and a key thing he said is he saw george floyd hanging around he thought floyd was getting the phone fixed and spent the time inside that cup foods. but you saw did demeanor there with a conversation with him saying he did think floyd was high but he was responsive and a key thing is while he encountered a counter fit bill before with george floyd he didn't think and the reason why he accepted the bill is because he didn't think floyd knew that it was counterfeit he said

joining me now is elizabeth newman at the department of homeland security, and joyce vance, former u.s. attorney. how alarming is it someone who was in the former presidential administration to find out we have at least one security clearance holding official, appointed official of the trump administration now indicted for being a part of the capitol siege. >> it's very concerning but it's not surprising. i'm actually surprised we haven't seen more. there were quite a number of people who worked in the administration that i found lacked a lot of common sense in terms of what is appropriate behavior, and many of them really drink the kool-aid. a lot of them were not along for the ride. but a lot of them really believed what trump was saying and what trump was doing, and therefore if he says the election is stolen, if he says on january 6th, it will be wild, i kind of was expecting to see more of his government appointees in the crowd and participating in the insurrection. >> and you know, we have, joyce, this lawsuit, the second lawsuit, that names not just donald trump but his son, rud

let's discuss it with joyce vance. she is an msnbc contributor and former u.s. attorney.with that. michael collet has been asked back for an eight interview. that was enough to make john dean, former white house counsel to president nixon to say that basically it is only in his words, it is only a matter of how many days until mr. vance indicts donald trump and others. what you think of that choice? >> well, dave, maybe a little bit optimistic. but michael cohen plays an important role for prosecutors. he now has millions of pages of documents, the debtor that underlies trump's taxes and other financial records. and it is such a help for them to have someone who can explain it. who better than the president's former lawyer? probably present for a lot of meetings and conversations, familiar with issues that get reflected in texas. so, it is no surprise that they have had: intro much work and it would seem to indicate that they are very interested in what is contained in the papers that they finally received. >> what do you think of that call in georgia? the one that the wa

joining me now is the former united states attorney and professor at the university of alabama, joyce vanceorning. you wrielt in the article, donald trump has famously expressed the view that only the guilty take the fifth, but the mere events around january 6th lacking any privilege might prove fuel for the criminal investigation. tell us what you mean by that. >> well, the fifth amend is a double-edged sword if you're donald trump. he now has two congressmen that implicate him surrounding the insurrection. one way to get out of the deposition for donald trump or others around him is to say i have a fifth amendment. i could potentially be indicted for events around the insurrection, so you can't take my deposition. of course, truss p has told us his views. the other option would be to submit to a deposition, to answer questions which you have to do under oath and it submits you to the penalty of perjury if you lie. so this civil process provides a simple mechanism for uncovering the truth. >> you further write about civil suits, civil lawsuits provide an ultimate path. i'm reminded that th

. >> we're joined now by former federal prosecutor joyce vance.a lot going on, but this is a big story. thanks for being here. >> good to be with you. >> when you look at the specific developments starting with cohen going back in, i don't think you have to be a lawyer to ask, why so many meetings? if he cooperated and provided information, what, if anything, do you read in them having him back? >> so first, ari, i just have to say that my former prosecutor makes me a little cringy to see witnesses who look like are witnesses who are cooperating with prosecutors going back out in public and talking about it. that seems so very unusual to me that i wonder if the prosecutors in this case perhaps don't welcome a little bit of ratcheting up the pressure in public. it is very unusual to see this happen. but to your point, a witness who comes in to talk with you eight times, that's a witness who has a lot to offer. and although it seems unlikely that michael cohen will ever take the witness stand himself because of his entire criminal history and some o

and i can't remember if it was chuck rosenberg earlier or maybe it was joyce vance who talked about the mistake the defense made by providing that opening for the prosecution to come back and ask her, do you feel like your life has changed? what does that mean to you? and that's when she gave that powerful statement that is so weighty in emotion but also weighty in innocence but also innocence lost for someone so young. >> jonathan, shaq brought up this very important point earlier in our coverage, and i want to go back to you, shaquille, about this. we thought so much about the family and what they've had to endure and what they've witnessed just reliving these moments in the courtroom, but you talked about the trauma of courtroom, but you talk about the trauma of the witnesses having to relive what they saw. we're seeing that and hearing that on full display on day two of this trial, with the emotion coming out of these witnesses. >> a lot of emotion, eamon. it remind me i think a conversation i had live on msnbc. the trial started march 8th, so march 7th, it was one of the biggest pr

joining me now is shaquille brewster outside the courthouse, and joyce vance, an nbc news contributorutside the courthouse at this hour? >> reporter: well, ayman, i can at the you the court proceedings just wrapped up in the past few minutes. it was defined by the delays we saw. we were expecting that jury selection -- though in the past couple minutes, both sides agreed to strike about 16 jurors based on questionnaires that they took before coming to jury selection. that formal questions of jurors we were expecting to see today did not happen. it boils down to the third-degree murder charge, that the prosecution is trying to add to the case against former police officer. they're saying let's wait before we continue to move on. the judge said it in the past couple minutes, he will continue going until he's told by another court to stop. outside the courthouse we saw lots of protests today. >> george floyd, with his death, it shook something in me. i felt compelled to be here. you shouldn't have to have protests, because you knew what you did was wrong and you were caught on tv. >> hop

again, joyce vance, former u.s. attorney in ballistic missile bnl and msnbc contributor. >>> joining me congresswoman angie craig of minnesota, co-chair of the lgbtq equality caucus, member of the energy in congress and small business committee. congressman craig participated in the committee meeting we showed you a little bit of. i think it will be a good place to start. by the way, it is nice to be in your state here in minnesota. let's talk a little about the disinformation hearing. social media has become the place where the big lie spreads. it is the place where the anti-vaccine information spreads. i was a little surprised that the ceos of these tech companies were not prepared to be a little more forthcoming about the fact that their platforms, at least on some levels, have become cesspools for this bad information. >> well, it is very concerning and it is great to be here with you this morning. we saw the ceos of three of the biggest tech companies in america put their head in the sand and really refuse to a

attorney joyce vance. we've asked joan walsh to stick with us, giving the breaking story. joyce, many viewers will remember the other big incriminating phone call. this is a different and distinct one. what is your view of it as evidence? >> well, this helps bring in to focus the reporting we've had, ari, that the d.a. in fulton county may be looking at racketeering charges. and racketeering basically involves a course of similar events, criminal events. in this case it would be some kind of criminal solicitation. so we know about the one tape with trump. we've already heard with georgia's secretary of state brad raffesberger. here we have a second one engaging in that same kind of conduct. it really gives substance to the reporting of what the d.a. is looking into. >> you say "substance," joyce. that's what i'm wondering about. whether people are inclined to give this particular politician the benefit of the doubt, there are plenty of politicians who talk tough and fight to the end. and sometimes the lawful end comes after election day. so a comment in an interview or a c

joyce vance, thank you so much for being here. really appreciate you. thank you very much. that is tonight's "reid out." "all in with chris hayes" starts now. >> tonight on "all in". >> if one political party believes that when you lose an election the answer isn't to win more votes but rather to try and prevent the other side from voting, we have an existential threat to democracy. >> new signs democrats may move to counter the republican radicalization against democracy. >>> then, new evidence of anti-government groups coordinating before the attack on the capitol and breathtaking new video of the attack on a capitol police officer who later died. >>> plus, my exclusive interview with the new secretary of education on today's big announcement about the push to reopen schools and what we learned when nbc news gained exclusive access to a border detention facility housing unaccompanied minors. "all in" starts right now. >>> good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. there's a lot going on in the news, a lot going on in the country. many challenges we face, and amongst all

i want to bring into the conversation to help us evaluate what we are seeing so far, joyce vance, a nbc news news contributor, retired sergeant cheryl dorsey. joyce, i want to get your general takeaway of what we have seen particularly with the second witness. the first witness, a straightforward presentation of trying to establish a timeline. what do you make of this prosecution's witness, 23-year-old alicia oiler, i believe, who worked at the speedway away the way from cup foods? >> this might seem like a curious piece of testimony for folks who have been watching it but this is a building block. ms. oiler apparently took much of the bystander video we have seen. she had a perspective from across the street of the three officers as they begin to hold mr. floyd prone. so what they're really doing is authenticating the video, clarifying her opportunity to observe and to make the video in realtime so that the prosecution will be able to offer those videotapes into evidence and have them admitted as items that the jury will be able to consider when they deliberate. >> joyce, the prosecuto