joyce vance, my friend, thank you as always.the white house or congress step up to protect roe v. wade, the women's health protection act which would codify abortion rights and get a vote in the house faces a rough road through the senate. co-sponsor of the bill dina titus is my guest when we come back. what do we want for dinner? burger... i want a sugar cookie... wait... i want a bucket of chicken... i want... ♪♪ it's the easiest because it's the cheesiest. kraft. for the win win. frequent heartburn? not anymore. the prilosec otc two-week challenge is helping people love what they love again. just one pill a day. 24 hours. zero heartburn. because life starts when heartburn stops. take the challenge at prilosecotc dot com. now with the samsung galaxy z fold 3 on verizon 5g ultra wideband, there's no more fear of missing out. or as i like to say... (crowd) no mo fo mo! download a movie in seconds, while acting in a movie. hyah! while also writing a movie. game on the go on the fastest 5g in the world. he's cheating! (crowd gasps

and joyce vance, msnbc contributor and co-host of the sister of law podcast. found most striking is that this bill in a box so to speak is not just happening in texas, but it is something that's happening across the country. can you shed a little more light on this? >> the strategy to defeat women's abortion rights by conservatives has been to try different laws in different states hoping that somewhere along the way they get lucky and have the right constitutional challenge to take to the supreme court giving this newly conservative court the opportunity to overturn roe vs. wade outright or at least gut it like the court has done with the voting rights act, still technically in place but making it difficult to protect rights. so texas is a little bit of an overcorrection here where they've gone all the way forward with creating private enforcement and they did that because even though there's a mississippi challenge that the supreme court will hear next year, abortion rights still exist in mississippi, that the texas bill was designed so that it would go into

joyce vance, you wrote a column two days ago which i have tweeted out because what happened in texas vis-a-vis the supreme court is complicated. there are a lot of nuances with it, and what has happened today with the department of justice is also complicated because there's the discussion of the merits of roe v. wade and the texas law, and then there's a discussion of process and procedure and what merrick garland calls a scheme. i'm going to ask you in the limited way in which we can do on television to explain what the department of justice is now doing in the face of what happened at the supreme court last week. >> well, you're right, ali, this is a little bit nuanced, but maybe this will help folks understand. what doj did today was they threw the supreme court's decision in the case last week back in its face. last week, the supreme court said gee, we've never seen this sort of private enforcement scheme before where texas has turned anyone who wants to be a vigilante against abortion into a vigilante who can go out and find these women and claim a $10,000 bounty if they sue th

we have joyce vance here to tell you what you need to know. and that's not all. a lot more in the program tonight developing news about january 6th riot indictments and we have a very special guest on the roots of republican extremism. how lives have blown up in the gop's face. stay with us. each lasting 4 hours or more, you're not the only one with questions about botox®. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they even start, with about 10 minutes of treatment once every 3 months. so, ask your doctor if botox® is right for you, and if a sample is available. effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. don't receive botox® if there's a skin infection. tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions and medications, including botu

joyce vance, thank you as always. always clearing things up for you.>> all right. my head scratcher of the week, gaining the honor for sheer audacity, former trump adviser kellyanne conway complaining about getting the boot from an undeserved position on an advisory board to the air force academy, calling it a break from presidential norms as well as, quote, petty and political. that's right, the woman who coined the tern alternative facts is threatened about a break after her time in the trump white house. it started with a day one speech on american carnage and included such highlights of presidential norms as a travel ban targeting muslims, the very fine people on both sides, comments after charlottesville, referring to s-hole countries in africa and threatening to pull out of nato that don't raise presidential norms. she might want to focus on presidential norms that is spending the night of the 20th anniversary of 9/11 providing commentary for a prize fight for a fee, of course. my highlight, alexandria ocasio-cortez giving a tutorial on human sex

joining us now, an msnbc legal analyst, joyce vance. joyce, thanks so much for being here.he person i wanted to talk to about this. tell me i have this right, joyce. an injunction is basically frequently denied based on the belief that the plaintiffs' arguments will not be based on the merits of the case. what do we do? how do we read sort of the tea leaves on the future of abortion as a constitutional right given what's gone down over the course of the last couple of days? >> well, the top headline -- top line headline has to be that roe versus wade has come to the end of its life, whether the court says it here or next year in the mississippi case. that conclusion seems to be foregone. and this is an unusual ruling by the supreme court. they almost seem to say in twho-page unsigned opinion by the majority that because the texas law is procedurally so complex and because it relies on private individuals for enforcement that the court lacks the ability in essence to enjoin the law from going into effect. very unusual and in many ways a disappointing opinion. >> i saw your t

joining me now joyce vance and katy kay and frank. frank, tell us what you expect to see this saturday. >> first, i expect to see extraordinary even unprecedented security precautions. i expect to see intelligence sharing and collection and a posture across the capitol region that brings in all departments and that's all what we are seeing right now. that's the good news. i also expect and watch carefully three things, attendance. the number counts. how many people are fed up with the lie and conspiracy and will not further support behind the january 6th rioters. i think not. i am not expecting to see that based on the chatter i see on their site. lastly, who's going to taking podium. what's the radicalized rhetoric we are going to hear about the rioters. are we going to see distancing from that podium and a lack of attendance pointing to a good sign ahead if that's the case. >> katy, we know no gop members are currently planning to attend in that rally. if it sticks, what does it say to you? >> how much republican members are caught

joining me is joyce vance.hanks so much for making time. >> thanks for having me, rachel. >> so, we talked in recent weeks about how texas devised this law to work in certain ways, to shield it from federal court scrutiny. it's been mostly speculation until now whether that would do more than just shield the law from scrutiny, whether the law was actually work to punish abortion providers and people who help women in the state. how do you think this is going to play out? >> so this is a very interesting situation, and i think this statute which is designed to outsmart the justice system may be too cute by half, because in creating this private vigilante mechanism, it sort of becomes chaos. so we have here by his own admission this disgraced and disbarred former lawyer who is filing this lawsuit, and it opens a huge can of worms, but the biggest can of worms it opens for the state of texas is the possibility that now that the law is actually in effect that there will be a challenge to the law. lawyers call this

joining us is julia ainsley and joyce vance is back with us.governor abbott today. there is no fluency, no vocabulary on the republican party's part about what this actually is, which is actually about four weeks pregnant. the six-week legal definition comes from the last day of a woman's last period. so this would eliminate 85% of all abortions in texas. i haven't seen the numbers in all of the states that you are reporting on, but talk about whether they're all doing this eyes wide open and understand that it is essentially for all intents and purposes an abortion ban. >> well, that's exactly right, nicolle. i'm glad you pointed that out. actually, it is about two weeks after most women could even take a pregnancy test, so it is not as if a woman has been living with the fact she is pregnant before six weeks, before she would be banned under the texas law. as far as what other states are doing, it seems that they are being energized since the supreme court decision last week not to intervene and to let the texas ban go forward, but it could a

i for one am very confused by this and when i'm confused about a legal matter i call in joyce vance, ontributor. joyce, can you please tell me what's going on here? the law provided for people to sue people who engaged in abortion activity in texas. two people sued this guy and now anti-abortion groups are saying that the lawsuits are bogus. what's happening? >> i suppose it's a case of be careful what you ask for, ali. the texas statute is drafted very broadly. it permits anyone to take on the role of being a private vigilante and seeks damages for someone who provides, aids and abets in an abortion. both of them are from out of state. the second lawsuit and the plaintiff openly identifies himself as a pro-choice plaintiff and seeks to have sb-8 itself deconstitutionalized and so the conservative proponents of this law are unhappy. what's happening here is that these private lawsuits provide a new mechanism for challenging the constitutionality of sb-8. conservative his hoped to keep the legal situation in limbo with the law in effect preventing women from obtaining abortions into si

attorney joyce vance. first to you, you've been tracking neighboring states that have been getting calls from texas desperate for these services. >> andrea, not just calls, but appointments and the majority of the appointments aren't residents of the state, but residents of texas. in the days immediately after this law went into effect they were receiving around 50 calls per day from women in texas, and since then to where we are today one week in, they have scheduled more than 150 abortion appointments. the majority of them for women from texas, and those women are a lot of them are under the age of 18 in their second trimester trying to figure out what to do here, and i want to play a bit of my conversation with rebecca tong, the co-executive director of the trust women's clinic in oklahoma. take a listen. >> for the state of texas to be telling their citizens to go out of state during a pandemic for a pill and for a five-minute procedure is cruel, and i wish we could see everyone. i am not -- if we open

joining us now to help us understand is our hand joyce vance, the u.s.h for being with us today. >> thank you for having rachel. >> so we've talked about in recent weeks how texas device this law, to work in the specific way, to shield it from federal court scrutiny, but it's been mostly speculation, until now as to whether or not that enforcement mechanism would do more than just shield a lot from federal scrutiny. whether the law would actually work to punish abortion providers and people who help women in the state. how do you think this is gonna play? >> so this is a very interesting situation. and i think the statue which is designed to outsmart the justice system may be too cute by half. because in creating this private vigilante mechanism. it's sort of becomes chaos. and so we have here, by his own admission disgrace, and disbarred former lawyer, who is filing this lawsuit and it opens a huge can of worms, but the biggest kind of warms it opens for the state of texas is the possibility that now that the law is actually in effect, there will be a c

joyce vance, this thing that's happened in texas, law that the supreme court was invited to get involved in and did not, a lot of americans are confused about the fact, isn't what texas is doing contrary to what we thought federal law has to say about abortion, and secondly, unusual and specific instance. how does somebody not got anything to do with abortion in question have standing to be able to sue someone else involved in it? >> everything about this case is very unusual, even the process is very unusual. this case was proceeding in federal district court in texas when the fifth circuit stripped the federal district court judge, the trial judge, of any ability to provide on motion to keep the statute from going into effect. that's how it got to the shadow docket, emergency appeal. it's process cases decided without full briefing and argument. in this situation, the court isn't considering the substance of the statute and the provisions you identify with the private lawsuits, this is preliminary saying who has the ability to hear the case and whether they can entertain a motion to ke

she's a civil rights attorney, and joyce vance, a former federal prosecutor, a prosecutor at a -- msnbc legal contributor. thank you to both of you for joining us tonight. representative crockett, we've had opportunities to speak in the last few, months many of them about the voter suppression laws in texas. but now we've got this, which took some people by surprise. we didn't think this texas law would be the one that the supreme court would stumble over, but here we have it. and that point that abortion providers are made to the texas tribune, it does not affect everybody. women with means will still be able to go to another state, ultimately another, country but women of limited means, poor women. poor families. they will be the ones affected by. this because they will not risk somebody getting fines or being taken to task by these vigilantes, who are now empowered by this law. no, you're absolutely right. first of a good evening to you. and this is a story of the haves versus the have knots. that's where we continue to see out of the state of, texas is that we want to make sure that

attorney for the northern district of alabama joyce vance. leman. and professor at princeton university, eddie glaude jr. joyce i want to begin with you for this hour. help us understand the ruling from texas yesterday from the supreme court what it means, what it doesn't mean and the implications it may have down the road. >> so a majority of the supreme court close to midnight last night made the decision that this law in texas, the most restrictive law on abortion in the country, could go into effect. they had been asked to enjoin the law by a group of abortion providers and advocates for abortion. but the court said it couldn't enjoin the law because the texas statute is very unusual. instead of using normal government entities to enforce it, it's enforced by creating what justice sotomayor in her decent calls citizen bounty hunters. any citizen can go after people who helped a woman obtain an abortion. they can't sue the woman herself but they can get a $10,000 bounty if they succeed in this action. the court says we're able to enjoin sta

the co-chair of american bridge 21st century and the former president of planted parenthood, and joyce vanceirst to you. chief justice john roberts calling the empowerment of private citizens as enforcers of the law unprecedented and the editorial board of the wall street journal saying the law sets an all of precedent that conservatives could hate. it could allow individuals to sue for hate speech or new york depp ties private lawsuits against gun owners. the president called this part of the law un-american. the white house is looking at whether there are federal provisions that could block this part of the law that seems to be a reach. i don't know, joyce, do you think there is a federal option for the doj? >> so that will certainly be a question that folks at doj would have to look at from a variety of different directions, andrea, to see when they can challenge the law or find ways around it, but this is the evil genius, this notion that they would use private enforcement in an effort to prevent the courts from effectively reviewing the law. i suspect it proves too much. it does too muc

have the doj suing texas over this law, that will likely rise to the supreme court, according to joyce vancemore headache in something that's not likely to last. >> it could last long enough. republicans want to stop abortions, because they think each individual life is worth saving. if democrats think each individual life is worth saving and that i why gun control is important, why wouldn't they take the opportunity to take guns off the streets of new york? >> you talk about some red flags ahead, right? in speaking of conservatives that are employs the type of texas law that we're seeing in other states. what are some other major red flags, some issues are worried about? one way, in abortion rights, but there's, for instance, a right to free speech in the california constitution. >> so kind of, in summing all of this up, i'm trying to understand what it is we're trying to get to, which is -- is this going to come down to the supreme court making a decision based on the constitutionality of the texas law, in order to say, no, to other conservative states that will try to apply this loophole,

. >> joyce vance, able to turn on less than a dime to a totally different story that you're learning , my friend. >> thanks, rachel. . >> all right, we'll be right back. stay with us. we'll be right back stay with us this is our moment to do right by those who've helped feed us, care for us, and keep us safe during our toughest times. strengthen our economy and build back better with a pathway to citizenship for essential workers like farm workers, temporary protected status holders, and dreamers. over 70% of americans agree -- republicans, democrats, and independents. congress must act now. keep america's promise. build back better with a pathway to citizenship. it's time. what can i du with less asthma? with dupixent i can du more... yardwork... teamwork... long walks.... that's how you du more, with dupixent, which helps prevent asthma attacks. dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems. it's an add-on-treatment for specific types of moderate-to-severe asthma that can improve lung function for better breathing in as little as two weeks. and can reduce, or even eliminate, oral st

joining our conversation, joyce vance, former u.s. attorney and law professor.ht thing to take all three together or if it's worth focusing on texas first and tell us what these two lawsuits are likely to yield if they aren't on the substance of the law but simply a mechanism to get the law reviewed. >> well, that's a lot, nicole, but i'll take up your invitation maybe first to think about all three cases together, because really, this is all about the mississippi case, which is an effort to reverse roe vs. wade outright. and in fact, the missouri statute that was under attack in the eighth circuit today anticipates that approach. that law in missouri has a provision where if roe is reversed in the mississippi case, missouri would actually have a ban from conception onwards on abortion. in other words, a total ban on abortion. there are other states like alabama that have adopted legislation, anticipating a reversal of roe, and then abortion would cease to be available to women under virtually any circumstances in those states. so, that really brings texas into

joining us now, heidi pris balance a, an infectious disease physician, and joyce vance, professor atbama school of law and former u.s. attorney. good morning to you all. detroit, heidi, unveiling this ambitious new plan to keep students and teachers safe this school year. a lot of folks are looking at it. what exactly are they doing? >> reporter: yeah, chris. detroit is one of the most underserved, chronically underfunded school systems in the nation. so much stacked against it. it may be about to show us all how it is done. started last week with every student and every staff member offered a test once a week inside these buildings. within 24 to 48 hours, lab tests come back. they go out to a lab in ann arbor, and the school will be able to use that to weed out not only students that may be showing symptoms but the asymptomatic can infect a classroom or school before people know about it. here's what school officials are saying about hopes for the ambitious program. >> often times, detroit public school district is not looked to as a leader. i really think this is a space we have sh

let's bring into our coverage joyce vance, former u.s.iversity of alabama and msnbc legal analyst. i guess we should be grateful to the outrageous nature of the texas law for thrusting this back into sort of full view, but people who fight to protect women's reproductive health have been worried about this case for much longer. explain why. >> it is a case where the supreme court will have the opportunity to do away with roe v. wade, the now almost-50-year-old case that guarantees abortion rights in its entirety. the question in dobbs is whether states are able to engage in any sort of restriction on abortion previability. right now under wade women have the right to access abortion, and it is important, nicolle, to say one of the big questions involved in this case is who gets to make decisions about abortion. will it be women themselves? that's the right that's guaranteed under roe. there's a nationwide federal standard that leaves these decisions previability largely up to women. if stark contrast, the mississippi view is states get to

joyce vance is here, former u.s. attorney, now law professor at the university of alabama.msnbc legal analyst. also joining us, fatima gosgraves, and coauthor of "the confidence code" and an msnbc contributor. i want to start with you, fatima, and what we saw today. it is something -- it's awkward to talk about. it's awkward to talk about in a newscast. it's awkward to talk about it as a politician. and it takes something extraordinary for these women to have told these stories today. it's why we're starting here, and to me, it signals the urgency of this issue and this matter. >> yeah, it's considered a pretty radical act, actually, to tell your abortion story, and that's true for anyone, but especially true for these members of congress, although one in four women have abortions, there's a campaign of punishing and shaming people who need abortions, so their stories just don't get told and it's made it possible to pass laws like the texas sb-8. >> where do you think this conversation in this country is heading? do you think -- i mean, i sort of came of age as a voter at a

joining me is claire mccaskill and joyce vance. a lot of this thinking is sort of main stream and main lined. it feels like what this is in the republican party is accept they did accept after president obama won, we have trouble winning voters of color. that was the old way of thinking wow, we need to rethink our strategy. the new thinking is yolo. we're going to pretend we didn't lose. we're not going to admit it and psychologically accept it's possible for us to lose. but what do you make of my theory? >> well, i think the problem here is you have a leader in the republican party who has no regard for truth, who has lied his entire life. i mean, this is a man who lies like other people brush their teeth and put on their shoes. it is his main way of come mup kating. when he doesn't like what the truth is, he makes up something else. look what he did today. his cyber ninjas basically say hey, guy, you didn't even get as many votes as you thought you got. you got less than you thought you got, and what does he do? he sends out the

is national security and intelligence couldn't ken dilanian and professor of alabama law school joyce vanced and his role in the attack and why this trial has taken so long. >> reporter: there was a failure due to political opposition. they created from scratch and that's one of the reason for the delays. every rule is argued over for hours and days and weeks and we're in the ninth year of these pretrial hearings. all the fbi agents and support personnel have to get on a military charter and the secrecy, defense lawyers say they still don't have access. ksm was the mastermind and has confessed to this. he said he planned 9/11 from a to z. he pitched it to bin laden and was captured in pakistan and taken to sites where he was tortured and water boarded a number of times and he confessed to involvement in all manner of terrorist attacks. and some of those confessions are under challenge because of the nature of the trem. he will be in the courtroom tomorrow where i will be for these procedural hearings, but, look, the bottom line here is there is no end in sight, no trial date even set. it co

attorney joyce vance will break it down for us and what the lawsuit could look like. >>> then our coveragethe break. (vo) when it comes to safety, who has more 2021 i-i-h-s top safety pick plus winning vehicles, the highest level of safety you can earn? subaru. when it comes to longevity, who has the highest percentage of its vehicles still on the road after ten years? subaru. and when it comes to brand loyalty, who does j.d. power rank number one in the automotive industry for three consecutive years? subaru. it's easy to love a car you can trust. it's easy to love a subaru. it only takes a second for an everyday item to become dangerous. tide pods child-guard pack helps keep your laundry pacs in a safe place and your child safer. to close, twist until it clicks. tide pods child-guard packaging. seeing blood when you brush or floss can be a sign of early gum damage. new parodontax active gum repair kills plaque bacteria at the gum line to help keep the gum seal tight. new parodontax active gum repair toothpaste. as someone who resembles someone else... i appreciate that liberty mutual kno

we turn to our coverage today with joyce vance, and -- welcome to you both, david, we mentioned both the facts, this surveillance footage, that is all the real process. stacked against a kind of dangerous fantasy process of political prisoners and violent rhetoric. what is your analysis of how these are interacting within the republican party right now. >> the aware that these two processes are legal and political. they interact and it's not that one is more real than the. other but i invite your viewers to think what will all of this be like in a few months if the speaker of the house's republican. which could happen. if the leadership of the house and present it is and maybe the senate to is involved in trying to suppress and minimize there could be a real limit as to what the critical process, the prosecutorial process could accomplish. one of the ways that american society has gone wrong through the trump presidency, it started about looking into conspiracy with the russian. matter there was overconfidence, too much trust in what courts, prosecutors, can do for you, when you face

attorney joyce vance. she is an msnbc legal analyst. great to see you again.lea and what implications for those directed to him? >> so obviously significant for the defendant in this case who's now pleaded guilty and faces a sentence of up to five years in federal prison. it's hard to know what this means if anything for the on going investigation against rudy giuliani and others. i think this is hay little disappointing for people who had hoped that mr. freeman would cooperate and provide information about other crimes that he was aware of. that's not the case. this plea agreement does not involve any cooperation with prosecutors. >> is there any implication possibly for the former president since this involves campaign finance violations and certainly his campaign? >> i think that's almost impossible to say from this distance. it's very often and we've seen other cases where people have been involved in campaign mismanagement and campaign contributions and the candidate has not been aware or the candidate has not been prosecuted. so while, of course, it's al

joyce vance is a former u.s.call is what california voters are asking themselves with less than ten days to go. how close is it between governor newsom and conservative radio host larry elders. stay tuned to find out. is what business is all about. it's what the united states postal service has always been about. so as your business changes, we're changing with it. with e-commerce that runs at the speed of now. next day and two-day shipping nationwide. same day shipping across town. returns right from the doorstep, and deliveries seven days a week. it's a whole new world out there. let's not keep it waiting. what are you wearing, dog? they're pants, dog. no, these are pants, dog. no way. my pants are pants, dog. pizza on a bagel—we can all agree with that. uhm whatever those are, they're not pants. [ ding ] with relapsing forms of ms... there's a lot to deal with. not just unpredictable relapses. all these other things too. it can all add up. kesimpta is a once-monthly at-home injection... that may help you put t

joining me now, joyce vance, msnbc contributor, melissa murray and victoria defrancesca from the lbj school of public affairs. it is great to see you. i don't know that i've ever seen all three of you at once so this is particularly exciting given what we have to dig into here. vicki, i'm going to start with you given you're the one of us who's in texas. give us a sense of how this ban is playing out. >> we're seeing this hard right turn of the abortion piece being at the center of it, but as you mentioned earlier, we also have the election bill. we also have the -- to pass. we have a bunch of immigration stuff that's going on. so what is happening here in texas is centered by the abortion ban but so much more and we see that hard right turn in the state. and what's happening here is really interesting in terms of locking in some of these political folks we've seen because we're coming up on redistricting. many folks thought well, has this pendulum swung too far to the right? is it going to snap back? i actually think this is the beginning of a longer term. the next three to five yea

and joyce vance, an msnbc legal analyst. you guys are so perfect for this. carol, first, subpoenas. we just heard from jamie raskin, they're going after this information and there are going to be more subpoenas out there. tell us the significance you see of these four and what you expect going forward? >> you know, to my mind, chris, and this is probably because of what i focused on in my reporting and in our book, "i alone can fix it," but mark meadows and dan scavino are probably witnesses number one and number two, along with the president's daughter, ivanka trump, about the president's movements, state of mind, and actions. everything he said on january 6th. what did he want and what did he say he wanted when he was speaking at the ellipse. both of them were intrinsically involved in that. what was he saying when he learned that this situation at the capitol that he had enabled, encouraged, and sort of thrown kerosene on, when he told people to walk up pennsylvania avenue, go to the capitol, and fight like hell for their country, what was his reaction and what did he say and do