in the midwest in the 1920s, and particularly in indiana where the ku klux klan was very powerful in the 1920s. and, in fact, almost captured the status. there i am on the plane and dislike page 140 140 and the are in south bend, and you probably know this story but i will just tell it to whichever ones of youes don't know this. really quite great moment in universities history, which is the ku t klux klan, i mean they come to south bend to sort of put notre dame in its place, to make it clear to this catholic institution should be wiped off the face of the earth. and the students and organized against it. and there's this big kind of like what we think about as like a little bit of a demonstration and amo counterdemonstration, ad the students basically route the ku klux klan, send them back out of south bend. this is the days of nuke rockne and the four horsemen and there's this part of the book which is the quarterback of notre dame takes, they had, instead of a burning cross, the ku klux klan had put up his cross with like red electric bulbs, you know? notre dameerback of starts t

some of our relatives were terrorized by the ku klux klan. i'm trying to get you to understand the pain of. that >> you're intellectually honest. i will remind you, hakeem jeffries, drew analogies between donald trump and the ku klux klan. i don't think you had him on, pressing him in the same way. so we are drawing analogies here. -- >> he did not call donald trump the grand dragon of the kkk. he did not call donald trump to the modern kkk. let's not change what was said. >> reverend sharpton though, i'm calling out a double standard, in saying that certain people can use certain analogies to make a point, well, i'm using an analogy to make a point. the point i'm making is we should stop seeing each other on the basis of our skin color. it was god awful when the kkk did it. but you know what? we have to learn a lesson in the present, that we are creating more racial division in this country. >> but you cannot do it by being being insensitive to -- that's like calling someone of any kind of group that had a group that were terrorizing, i thin

. >> it had to be terrifying to testify against members of the klan where klans men were blowing up people, and murdering people. if you're a witness in one of those cases, just pointing out to lead to death threats against you, you could have to leave town. what do you make of the sense that donald trump is no different of someone like that in terms of what he can inspire or a mob boss, testifying against a member of the mafia? >> joy, what's ironic is i don't think donald trump has to say anything anymore and still will incite people to do those things. i mean, there are people calling members of congress every day threatening their lives, talking about things. i don't think he has to say a word at this point. and, you know, this is not unusual. to be honest with you, it's not unusual to have an anonymous jury. we did an anonymous jury in 2001 and 2002 in the 16th street church bombing cases. white supremacists, klansmen -- >> we are hoping zoom will let our guest be great. we're going to try to get his zoom fixed. but that's a great point. i think this is where he was going is that it's

i mean, the ku klux klan and say there's no separation between the history of this country and klan behavior. so a lot of times, you know, people in this movement will write america with the k or three k is basically just just to condemn and satirize, you know, the country itself, but also. one called american family, because they feel like this family and people who they worked with and there are different organizations are a product of this country, you know, like the product of the racism, repression that they face. they came about to challenge that. they came about they they coalesced to challenge the system. so they are a product of this country as much as this country is a product of other dissidents like them. i mean, you know, we celebrate our rebels and our freedom fighters in this country, you know, part the country is in the beginning like to be, you know, kind of an american and be proud to be american to celebrate rebellion and dissidents and fighting against oppression. right. so they are an american family because they are a product of their product of this country. as much as

of the freedmen in the south even as southern state governments, vigilante groups like the ku klux klan to strip them away. also union veterans during this period were constantly lobbying for the expansion of pensions for themselves and their and in general, republi tended to advocate for these measures, often engaging in something called waving the bloody shirt, painting their democratic opponents as being the party of rebellion and war. brutal polity. another huge issue of the time was what to do with the us currency during, the war. the us issued paper money, but many pro-business people wanted to enshrine the gold standard as the only basis us money. others advocated for the continued use of paper or the addition of silver to gold would expand the money supply and make it easier for people to get credit. while republicans tended to favor gold standard and democrats tended to favor silver, there were minorities of gold democrats and silver republicans throughout most. of the 1800s, there had been a conscious tint debate over how high or low should be businessmen, and factory owners a

he was force appointed to court by roosevelt and he was the lawyer for the klan in alabama for years,came a u.s. senator, he was 100% new deal democrat, fdr and rewarded with a position on the supreme court, but he was a racists, a bigot. that was roosevelt's first appoint to the supreme court. but true japanese-americans fought bravely during world war ii, much decorated for their valor, and part of most deckcratt decorated unit. japanese-american served in u.s. armed forces. despite havingf loyalties questioned. was a republican president, ronald reagan who signed into law civil liberty act providing restitution payment of $20 thousand to 60 thousand surviving japanese americans, notice. not reparations to fourth or fifth generations. of individuals, who have slavery. these are direct payments to people who had suffered, what roosevelt civil rights record toward blacks of sui -- zut newsed it is troubling if roosevelt established federal housing add machine strat administration. purpose was to ensure mortgages, providing homeownership, i heard liberals say this is a perfect example

but he doesn't seem to understand is that there is a modern ku klux klan, it's called the ku klux klanhile the hate groups numbers have declined over the nears the law center found at least ten active kkk associated groups in 2022. not to mention, just last, week in jacksonville, florida, three black people were murdered at $1 general because they were black. even after that, ramaswamy is doubling down on his deliberate incendiary rhetoric. let's get my panel on here to discuss, -- political strategist and the 2020 georgia senate runoff director. and the chairman is here, michael steele, msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee. welcome, welcome, welcome. i don't know if you saw it. i'm gonna play it for the folks at home. the exchange between ramaswamy and the great reverend al sharpton about these comments, nicholas and. >> yes, i do think there are echoes of a historical ugly racism in this country showing up -- >> to say we don't, wait, just a second. to say we do not want voices. to say that is not going with sheets and burning crosses, and

but it was not one that could easily be solved, and the klan really clammed up, and they didn't talk, and evidence was hard to come by. in 1977, the first of the cases was tried. former attorney general bill backly, who was also in the audience today, tried the first case and was successful doing that. so we built on the 1960s investigation, the 1970s investigation that backly did. then we did our own to try to fill in the gaps. and fortunately times change, attitudes change, people change. and the evidence just fit together so much easier and so much better. but it was still a race against time. witnesses were gone. witnesses were dying. witnesses were old and infirm. and we really had to work hard to pull these pieces together. and interestingly, laura, you would certainly appreciate we found an old tape-recording, a tape-recording of one of the defendants talking to his wife and another person, in which he admitted being part of the group that was planting the bomb and making the bomb. and it was a stunning discovery for us. it took a lot of interesting legal work to get it into ev

the head of the kenny klan. who are in dose anti-semite so bad, he was support of the early third reich that roosevelt had to yank him back. margaret sanger she found planned parenthood, supported birth control, mostly because they wanted to control the population, particularly blacks. she was a racist and so forth. so, when you look at these issues, not just the history, you look today, the democrat party cannot survive without racism, segregation, it's now busy resegregating society, ask the asian community, anybody who goes to colleges or universities today. read critical race theory. they moved to that, they moved to american marxism. what they don't accept is americanism. here is what is very very crucial to understand. the democrat party is not just a political party. the republican party is a political party. they try to win elections. they do a very poor job of explaining what they stand for most of the time they don't know what they stand for. and people tend to vote republican because they don't want t

the klan really clammed up and didn't talk and evidence was hard to come by.ied. the former attorney general tried the first case and was successful doing that. we built on the 1960s investigation, 1970s investigation, that maxly did. then we did our own to try to fill in the gaps. fortunately times changed. attitudes changed. people changed. and the evidence just fit together so much easier and so much better but it was still a race against time. witnesses were gone, dying, old, infirm. we really had to work hard to pull these pieces together and interestingly you would certainly appreciate this we found an old tape recording of one of the defendants talking to his wife and another person in which he admitted being part of the group planning the and making the bomb. there was a stunning discovery. took a lot of interesting work to get into evidence but it was upheld by the courts of appeal. that was a real key to this but the real basis for this conversation was the dedication of the team who just never gave up and the families who just patiently waited for t

bill maher is comparing woke progressives to the ku klux klan given their constant fixation on race.ost the thing you should always see everywhere which i find interesting because that used to be the position of the ku klux klan. again, you can have that position, but don't say that's a liberal position. you're doing something very different. >> okay. jessica, maher says he is always trying to make the case that liberal is a different animal than woke which he feels takes things too far to the left fringe. do you agree with him? >> well, he's drawing the distinction -- yes, i do. there is obviously a far left side of the party and the bulk of the party that falls into this establishment camp which is your run of the mill democrat. he is even going further back and talking about old-school blue dog democrats. what was going on in the 90s during the clinton era, and everyone has generally updated their social positions on things like gay marriage, becoming more pro-choice, et cetera. bill maher is -- and i really enjoy him. i watch the show all the time. he is very disconnected from wh

enforce the 15th amendment and protect african-americans from actions of groups like the otku klux klan, and he vigorously ny enforced these laws, and effectively disrupted the clan in the south. with this, and with his enforcement of the 14th and 15th amendments, grant did more to protect and defend the civil rights of african-americans than any wother president for almost a century, until you get to the presidency of lyndon johnson. he was also a genuinely nice guy. he was an amiable man who was willing to admit his mistakes. in fact, despite what you may have heard recently, u.s. grant was the first u.s. president to be arrested. he was arrested for speeding. he loved horses, he loved to he race his carriage, and the cop literally pulled him over in 1872. now, what does he do? does he say, do you know who i am? no. he's like, you got me fair and square. ra he laughs, he smiles, he pays the fine, he acknowledged his ol fault. st and it's hard not to like al someone who does that. in fact, he, at the very end of his administration, he publicly apologized for his administration. some hi

expert meeting under the supervision of the country azarbaijan klan, head of the secretariat, let it start and in a very short period of time, that is, everything is stated in the text of the statement, it is stated in the text of the resolution in autocad, that it will happen in a very short period of time, and the expert group and, god willing, the method of communication with a device called the destination tower will be determined. international asia and pacific region world handicrafts council ended its work after two days, the presence of iranian potters and the proposal of sisterhood between the malayers and the joint world carvings in wood carving, including the news of this meeting, more than 50 countries, including iran, in the fifth meeting international asia region and oceania, the world handicrafts council was present here, that is uzbekistan , the city of tashkent, for 4 years, he was the rotating head of the asia and pacific regional office of the world handicrafts council, a country with a rich culture and civilization, the neighborhoods of master craftsman , handicra

i love museums and i walked into this exhibit and there was a klan robe hanging. you had to kind of almost walk around in the national museum on the national mall. and i was like, really? you can do that. you you can tell the truth, you know? and i was so thrilled by that exhibit, which was produced by someone who was actually of this tradition of african american museums and has gone on to do amazing work. and i wrote him a letter and said, can i work for you? he said, well, i can't pay anyway. let's talk a little bit about the last section, which is about patriotic practices. i wondered, i know you earlier in your remarks, the pledge of allegiance, but i wondered if you could talk a little bit more to all of us about the work that those practices do and why they're important to scrutinize. yeah, i write about the pledge. i also write about colin kaepernick and the anthem i think is a an important story track because. he was being required to participate in patriotism and he felt like that requirement was asking him to celebrate a country that he was feeling quit

. >> reporter: 60 years ago, an act of hate forever changed birmingham, alabama, when the ku klux klanlaced a bomb outdoors beneath the 16th street baptist church steps taking the lives of 14-year-olds addie mae collins, cynthia wesley, carole robertson, and 11-year-old denise mcnair, who were getting ready for service in the basement a fifth little girl, sarah collins rudolph, was there that day and survived >> what do you remember about that morning? >> we walked to church that sunday, and we was going to sing in the choir. >> reporter: it took decades for rudolph to speak publicly about what she endured and the loss of her older sister, addie. >> denise mcnair walked over to addie, and she said, addie, tie my sash, so she reach her hand out to tie the sash, and i heard this loud noise, boom, and all i could do was say, jesus, addie, addie, addie, but she didn't answer. they had to remove my right eye, and when i look in the mirror at it, i just think about it. >> what does this 60th anniversary year mean for you and the congregation >> it means that we have a state of resiliency fou

veins bulging and chanting anti-semitic bio, racist bile we heard in the 30s neo-nazis, the ku klux klansupremacists, on the process of this ugly demonstration young woman was murdered. and the president at the time was asked what happened? he said quote we were very fine people on both peoples. very fine people on both sides. i heard that i knew i could no longer sit on the sideline because the president of the united states had just drawn a moral equivalency he knows who stood for hates and those who stood against it. folks, 2020 hate was still on march in america. the sitting president was breathing oxygen into that hates it. everything we stood for, everything we believed in every thing that made america america, even our democracy was at risk. so i chose to run because silence is complicity and i would not be silent. i think the people here tonight some thought at the time when it made that speech in independence hall but i was being hyperbolic. joe, what do you mean our democracy is at risk? what give me we are in the battle for the soul of america? people don't say that anymore be

former head of the regional administration, hennadiy laguty , and after the special words of serhiy klan well-known ukrainian politician that the former governor, if allowed to use this word, was allegedly driven to suicide. we also know that he was indicted by the security service of ukraine. back in february of this year, he was accused of some kind of fraud misappropriation of a company car and so on, what can you say about this? well, you know, any death of a person is a tragedy, and once again , condolences to the family of the family of gennady, uh, regarding the statements of certain uh, political figures, well , you know, what should be done on the death of a person, well it is beneficial what he said there regarding the conclusion to everything else, well, it is less in my opinion and it is completely untrue, and this is not yes, but it is on his conscience , what is your opinion, or gennady, er, the deceased is already so, gennady laguta did everything in order to i don’t know how to avoid somehow warning the occupation or whether in principle it could be his fault. and anythin

. >> the naacp decided that they had to get us out of there because the ku klux klan had $10,000 dead$5,000 alive on our heads. they found cities for each one of us to go to. the santa rosa naacp was white folk. and so they bid for me. they got me. and that's how i got to california. >> beals got her education, she became a journalist, educator, and award winning author. >> now a situation where they're trying to pretend like central high school didn't happen. >> dr. beals is talking about a recent decision from the arkansas department of education that puts restrictions on an advanced placement african-american studies course. several schools said they will teach the ap course despite the state's objections. >> i'm 81. i carry the banner this far. i have eight colleagues who have done the same. you just create warriors, and that's who we are. warriors. and i'm going to do what my grandmother said, march forward. >> i really just am so inspired by you, and i'm glad to know you now. and to have this moment to speak with you. i'm very honored. thank you. >> thank you for the opportunity

black girls were killed in an attack on a birmingham, alabama church by four members of the ku klux klanof 11—year—old denise mcnair, along with 14—year—olds carole robertson, addie mae collins and cynthia dianne welsey. it also injured nearly two dozen others inside the church as they prepared to attend sunday services. the fbi called the 1965 bombing a "clear act of racial hatred" and "a most heinous offense." on friday — suvivors, victims�* family members as well as the first black woman appointed to the us supreme court —— justice ketanji brown jackson— gathered at the rebuilt 16th street baptist church to remember the girls and the events of september 15, 1963. now, i'd be remiss if i did not take a moment to acknowledge at the outset those present now who are also in this church 60 years ago today, at the scene of the tragic event that has brought us together. to the survivors and the victims, i cannot imagine the strength that it must take to keep coming back here. after what you have endured. may we all learn from your commitment to this cause and for the grace that you have repe

um group, within 5 months, it's deployed $12000.00 soldiers and klan base, and they should have central in somalia. now the fighters have been withdrawn from towns, but it's catherine, sort of a pause. they are still able to carry out your tax. so many soldiers on the front lines of south and central somebody out there carrying out a government offensive against officer bob the onto group has carried out a tops, i guess civilians and army for nearly a decade and a half. the army has made significant gains against the group since the operation started last year. official see the 2nd face in calling? the duke state in central. some manya is decisive. it is the main stronghold of devices. the bottle has been fees for sure. cuba can somebody go in? i do. there is no way in which somebody's conduct got the government to stop the will. we are determined to fight the president is on the front line. and i, the prime minister is with you. this is i'm want to over life and death. there is no point over time. president hudson shake my mood, food has been on the bottle filled for a month is leading

of the party who is responsible, woodrow wilson was an out of the closest racist with ties to the klani can give you examples. wilson required for first time that people apply for federal jobs send in their photos to make sure that blacks were not getting federal jobs, he also when he was president, of princeton university, bragged about the fact that not one black kid was admitted admitted to princ princeton when he was president of that university, he was king of senat of censorship, he wanted dmog wi nothing to do with black community, he was a bigot and a racist. he was a two term democrat president, democrats liked him, he was one of the progressive marxism intellectuals talking about perfecting society, but for the sloppiness of the vote and the republicanism and sloppiness of what goes on, he felt that the judiciary was where we could change america forever. he despised the declaration of independence and wrote about why. why? because the so-called progressives marxism replace their own ideology. and that is why they attack the family. because the family has a whole social const

that used to be the position of the ku klux klan, to see race first and foremost everywhere. >> yeah.sition, but don't say that is a liberal position, you are doing something very different. >> kennedy: interesting, bill maher has become a contrarian, when is how he started out. he misses the '90s liberals and that was the point about political discussion, that is all, but gone today. >> raymond: he is interesting case study, like ronald reagan, these are liberal men who watched their party shift so far to the left, they felt abandoned and they became conservative. you see this movement in the culture, not sure if you will see it coalesce politically. look at political polls, people still go along ideological waves. cultural shift is upon haing, not sure it reached political level yet. >> kennedy: younger millennials and gen-zers do not like it. it is one side or the other. people you talk to in d.c., do they feel that way? >> they think there is no way for disagreement and goes to what joe rogan was mentioning, it is a fringe group of activist and consider 50% of americans consider t

. >> the naacp decided they had to get us out of there because the ku klux klan had $10,000 dead and $5000 alive on her head, based on the cities, the santa rosa in the believe cp -- naacp, were white folks, they bid for me and that's how i got to california. >> reporter: she got education, became a journalist and educator and award-winning author. >> they're trying to pretend like central high school did happen. >> reporter: talking about a recent decision from the arkansas the part of education that puts restrictions on the advanced placement african- american studies course, they said they will teach it despite the state's objections. >> i'm anyone, i carried the banner this far, and the eight colleagues did the same, you create warriors and that's who we are, warriors. and i will do it. >> i'm so inspired by you and i'm glad to know you now have this moment to speak with you, i'm very honored, thank you. >> it's time to get the word out, we're not going to crawl. we have to fight everywhere. >> when she arrived to the bay area as she stayed with a quaker family who she said would

because the ku klux klan had $10,000 on our head. they bid for me, they got me.nd that's how i got california. >> beals got her education. she became a journalist, educator and award-winning author. >> now we're in a situation where they're trying to think like central didn't happen. >> several schools have said they will teach an ap course despite the state's objections. >> i'm 81. i've carried the banner this far. i've got eight colleagues who've done the same. you just create warriors. that's who we, warriors. i'm going to do what my grandmother said, march forward. >> i really am inspired by you and i'm glad to know you. >> thank you for the opportunity. >> really powerful conversation. when beals arrived in the bay area, she stayed with a quaker family in santa rosa, who she says would later bm become her family, and later, she got her bachelor's degree and went on to get her masters at columbia. >>> hundreds of people packed chinatown for the 33rd annual autumn festival. it took over grant avenue from california street to broad way. the chinatown merchants

african-american males over the age of 10 boy, if you once eulogized a close friend who hailed the ku klux klan but joe does know his hip-hop. an accomplished break dancer. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> greg: doesn't need cardboard. i wonder what the fellow democrats think of these gaffes. [laughter] >> greg: yes, as the gaffes pile up newsom is laughing so hard, birds are falling out of his hair, and now a shocking new "washington post" has biden in a -- the only thing shocking about that is it's not a 70--point lead. i guess it's time to get back to what worked in his last campaign and have dr. jill lock him in the basement. i wonder what his fellow democrats think about that. [screams] [laughter] >> greg: why do i keep bringing up gavein? other than my respect for his work in american psycho, he's starting to distance himself from his party's worst ideas. newsom, a guy who hates fossil fuels but can still bring down the price of gas by ringing out his hair once proclaimed the state would be a sanctuary to all who seeked it. and then they came, moving faster than a mob of wall green shoplifters, he says he hopes

from running in the prosecutor, you've got me going in the january 6 case he wants to use the ku klux klanaw just not donald trump, have you ever seen any insanity like this before? >> it is worse because the section of the 14th amendment section three that they're attempting to use mentions every single office you can imagine except the one that they're trying to use for this, the presidency of the united states. for all of the reasons plus the plain reading of the language it is ridiculous, this is escalation this is where the left is taking the democrat party and there's so afraid of president trump because we had in president trump commander-in-chief in a president of the united states who fought for america and fought for the constitution and fought for the things that he told the american people if they put them in office and all my goodness the left cannot tolerate that. this is why i'm for president trump and i hope these are next president. mark: jim jordan, when we come back i would ask isn't this bigger than donald trump talking about the constitution of the united states and if

it was a salmon drizzle, a rosy wash, it's like what happens when you accidentally wash your klan robesfinger at the former president, including alyssa farrah griffin, who used to work >> this is when for him in the white house. the party needs to ask themselves if they will vote on poor candidates to beat donald trump. if you want a party to thrive, we have to speak out and say, this man is a loser. >> stephen: okay, that's not fair. he is also a fascist pervert. the senate is still up for grabs as well, and it's going to remain that way for quite a while thanks to three key races. arizona: where we still don't have a call on who won the senate race between democratic nominee and grown up caillou, mark kelly. and extremist republican blake masters, seen here on karaoke night singing "deutschland uber alles." the big difference between the two is this: mark kelly is an astronaut, while blake masters is the same, minus the 'tronaut'. [cheers and applause] just got to wait it out. we're also waiting for results from nevada, where there's a tight race between democratic incumbent and woman

the 16th street baptist church prepared for sunday service, 19 sticks of dynamite placed by ku klux klan members exploded. as the interior of the walls of the church caved in, over 100 church goers rushed for safety. though most of the congregation escaped, under the debris lie the bodies of addie may collins, denise mcnair, carol robertson, and cynthia morris wesley, as well as sarah collins rudolph, who was injured but ultimately survived. tragically the brutality did not stop after the bombing. when african-american communities across the state of alabama took to the streets to demand justice, they were met with unspeakable violence at the hands of law enforcement. within a few hours, johnny robertson and virgil ware, ages 16 and 13, were killed in clashes between protestors and the police. despite the horrific nature of this attack, it took over 34 years before the perpetrators faced justice. in 2013, mr. speaker, i was honored that my very first bill i passed in this body awarded the congressional gold medal, the highest civilian honor we can give, to the four little girls posthumou

the 16th street baptist church in birmingham, alabama. 60 years ago today at 10:22 a.m., a ku klux klan carol robertson, and you make hollins, and 11 year old denise mcnair. 22 others were injured. >> i also knew that for little girls, not much older than myself, had been murdered on 16th street baptist church when a bomb ripped through the basement, awakening the nation and the world to the horrors of race based violence and oppression. i knew those girls were killed simply because they were black. and at that time, black people were rising up to demand equal rights. tough stuff for a child. but my parents never lied to me. and i sincerely believed that i needed to know the truth about what had happened in alabama and elsewhere if i was going to be prepared for life in america. so today, we remember the toll that was pave to secure the blessings of liberty for african americans and we grieve those four children who were senselessly taken from this earth and their families, and robbed of their potential. the fact of those souls and spirits shook and bend our own, but we did not break. i

in the early 1900s, woodrow wilson spewed hate that glorified the klan. few years, had read summer where black men and others were killed and run out of town all over this country in reaction to what was being spewed by the president. in 1963, have alabama governor george wallace sang segregation yesterday, today, tomorrow, let loose the idea that black people were the problem. i the end of year, have people blown up in birmingham, dogs sick don children, children blown up in alabama. if you continue down this road -- in 1960, the florida legislator was pushing all kind of divisive rhetoric. you had the ax handle mob in jacksonville where a white mob beat black while the police watched until black fought back and then they join in. there is this history of not just to coast but what kills and what creates the atmosphere. spewing hate from the most powerful levels of government gives license -- it puts it to suggestion it is all right to eliminate folks. what happens is this guy goes to a blog hbcu. he has been hearing that black history is a problem. if h

a senator from alabama was that it came out after his confirmation that he had been in the ku klux klanand this was a big controversy after his confirmation. one of the things that i found very interesting is that there were rumors and allegations of this, before his nomination was voted on in the senate, they talked about it on the four of the senate, and there was nothing like what we would have today, which is kind of a serious inquiry to it, there are questions of the nominee where they had to address it, they kind of brushed it aside, and there was a pittsburgh newspaper did a pulitzer prize-winning series detailing his kkk activities, it was a completely different time in terms of the way confirmations unfolded. >> one of the character that regularly appears in your story is john phillips, did he see himself as the neutral arbiter of justice or someone beholden to the president? >> is interesting, because i think that he would have said he sawimself as a neutral arbiter , and he was actually, he was from a prominent philadelphia family. >> the jeweler family? >> i believe so, i'm