kobilinsky, mark geragos., i think you may be right now would argue that the state has proved second degree murder beyond a reasonable doubt. but if you were prosecuting this case, would you still request for the jury to be able to consider a lesser charge? >> oh, no question about it. you want the jury to have options, because it's something that prosecutors do, anderson, all the time. and so i can tell you that they're going to ask for the lesser included and they're going to get it from the judge. because they have evidence that could support a manslaughter conviction. i do think, though, that the judge agrees with me. the judge ruled there was enough evidence of second degree murder to go to the jury. and there is enough evidence. what you have to consider is the prosecution has this case in pieces of a puzzle, almost without the benefit of having the box cover to the puzzle. in closing argument, they'll put those pieces together for the jury and make the picture very evident. and so, you know, we're sayin

kobilinsky, i want to start with you. the firearms expert toughered that the gun was touching trayvon martin's sweatshirt when george zimmerman fired and that's not what the autopsy found. >> i find it mysteriously. she test fired with the same ammunition. she used the same garments to do her test fire, and she concluded that it was a contact shot. remember that there are two garment, the hoodie sweatshirt and an underlying sweatshirt and then the body. she's looking at gunshot residue, burned and unburned particles, and the tearing and singeing of the fibers around the hall. the conclusion makes sense to me that it was a contact shot. what's mysterious is that the autopsy report indicate not that it was a close shot or contact shot, but rather it was an intermediate distance shot which tellses me it was probably between six and 18 inches. >> who is likely to be more accurate? >> i would tend to think that the ballistics expert is more accurate because that bullet had to penetrate both garments before it hit the body. you

. >> joining me now is forensic scientist, larry kobilinsky, scientist. make of the testimony? >> i think mr. gorgon is correct. biohazard material has to be kept dry. if you seal it in a plastic container, moisture is present. and any kind of bacteria or fungi will grow. you can lose evidence, valuable information by storing it the wrong way. >> but that applies to the sweatshirt, it doesn't apply to trayvon martin's fingernails where there was none of george zimmerman's dna, do you consider that a major finding? >> no, i really don't. i have worked on many cases, looking at fingernail scrapings in a post-mortem setting. and almost always, you find no foreign dna. and i have to add something very important here. the results that we're hearing on the gun and other testimony, where they failed to find somebody's dna, that is because this testing that is used in this laboratory in florida is the normal pcr testing. in new york city, they do a high sensitivity testing which could have provided different results. i'm not saying anything is wrong with the resu

kobilinsky, thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you. >> "morning joe" is up next. >>ome to "morning joe." hope everybody had a great fourth of july holiday. and the question we're posing this morning, perfect timing actually, what if we had the ability to pull together the best traits of certain presidents to buy yonically manufacture the ideal president. >> buy yonically. >> we can make them better, rebuild them. >> take all of the good parts of all of them. we've assembled another all-star panel of presidential historians to help us build the perfect president. joining us rice university professor and author of "the reagan diaries" and

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kobilinsky. the lead investigator was asked about the injuries, about zimmerman's alleged assault. he was questioned about the injuries. i want to play what he said. >> i think on cross-examination, you were asked something about exaggeration. do you recall being asked about that? >> yes, sir. >> do you recall i think either you uttered it or mr. o'mara asked, uttered it, on behalf of the defendant, exaggeration, do you recall what that was about? >> pertaining to the defendant's statements. >> you felt he was exaggerating certain parts of it? >> among other things. >> you were asked specifically about exaggeration. did you feel he had exaggerated the manner in which he had been hit? >> yes, sir. >> from a forensic standpoint, from what you've seen of the injuries, do you think he was exaggerating? >> i don't. you have to put yourself in the moment. there's fisticuffs. there's a lot of slamming and hitting, smashed in the face. the head is smashed against the ground. you act by reflex, by pure emotion. i'm getting killed, i've got to save myself. you know, we are sitting here and w

kobilinsky, in terms of making somebody violent, i mean, there's not -- pot doesn't really -- unless it's like laced with pcp or something back in the day. >> if anything, it calms generally speaking. but people can get paranoid. but i think the answer to the question is quite simple. you cannot say to any medical degree of certainty whether he was affected mentally or physically. you simply can't say yes or no. we don't know enough about the history of his consumption of cannabis. >> everyone stay with us. up next, show and tell in front of the court. george zimmerman's defense attorney actually got down on the floor with zimmerman's athletic trainer to make point about his client's physical abilities. we'll talk about that when we come back. ahead. big plans. so when i found out medicare doesn't pay all my medical expenses, i looked at my options. then i got a medicare supplement insurance plan. [ male announcer ] if you're eligible for medicare, you may know it only covers about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. call now and find out about an aarp medicar

jean casarez, faith jenkins, and defense attorney danny cevallos and on the phone with me larry kobilinskyyou have testified in a number of dna cases and you said this dr. bao was the worst witness ever. why? >> well, it was an unmitigated disaster for the prosecution. to end with dr. bao, it couldn't be worse. for example, he prepared a script which he brought with him which would describe how he would answer potential questions. he didn't even realize that a document like that is discoverable. it's a very amateurish move. but i think the important point is with every cross-examination question he lost credibility on a number of issues. his findings about the intermediate distance for the shot contradicts amy's testimony that it was a contact shot. he changed his opinion about the level of thc, tetrahydrocannabinol in the body of trayvon martin. initially he said it would cause no intoxication, no physical or mental effect. then upon cross-examination, he changed his mind and admitted there would be an effect. he first said a person shot the way trayvon martin was shot would survive anypl

kobilinsky, thank you very much for joining us tonight. >>> egypt blows its top. let's play "hardball." >> good evening, i'm chris matthews back in washington, leading off tonight, the prosecution begins to rest its case in the george zimmerman case. but did it make the case for murder two? did it beat the case for self-defense? did it? or did it simply show weaknesses in its witnesses and in its evidence? but we start tonight with the military coup, yes, military coup in egypt. today, the army overthrew the elected government and took power itself. what's this game-changing event mean to democracy in the most important country in arabia? what does it mean to peace in the region? well, think of a situation in that part of the world. in afghanistan, the taliban is dying to get back into power. in iraq, the sunni minority stands ready to overthrow the government. we, the united states, put into power through the sweat, blood and the deaths of our soldiers. in syria, assad fights off the rebels in what promises to be an unending war. what a neighborhood. and in too m

lawrence kobilinsky. ask i ask you this?hearing the defense arguing that george zimmerman is unfit, despite the training that he had had, that he was not capable of fighting, incompetent physical fighter, as it were. does that not, though, suggest a greater propensity to use a firearm in those circumstances if the individual was so weak? >> i -- >> is that not an argument that you would expect the prosecution to raise at some point? if this man were so unfit, his likelihood to reach for a firearm regardless of the firearm may have been greater. >> that makes sense. i should remind everybody in the o.j. simpson case there was an argument that o.j. simpson could not have committed the crime because he was arthritic, had a lot of pain and couldn't get go about the athletic maneuver to perform the murders. yeah, the a point they would like to make to the jury. but on the other hand, it could backfire. >> yeah. jonathan capehart, closing arguments are to come. what do both sides need to do in these terms, in terms of closing argu

kobilinsky, thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you. >> "morning joe" is up next. >>> welcome to "morning joe." hope everybody had a great fourth of july holiday. and the question we're posing this morning, perfect timing actually, what if we had the ability to pull together the best traits of certain presidents to buy yonically manufacture the ideal president. >> buy yonically. >> we can make them better, rebuild them. >> take all of the good parts of all of them. we've assembled another all-star panel of presidential historians to help us build the perfect president. joining us rice university professor and author of "the reagan diaries" and gerald r. ford, douglas brinkley. >> nancy gibbs. >> executive editor of "time" michael duffy, co-authors of "the president's club." also in new york, nbc puttal historian and author of nine books on the american presidency, michael berblamb. good to have you on board. >> thank you. >> let's start by talking before we build the perfect president, let's talk about the president we have. douglas brinkley, a lot of democrats now, p