and what what kyle serafin was saying to me is essentially that it would make sense that. right, that someone who was coming in was in communication and vaguely aware. but he insisted that, you know, that kash patel was not pulling the strings of these actual orders and making the order directly. obviously, that would be inappropriate. so i think we're sort of in this muddled territory. and of course, i think, you know, just based on the idea that a lot of people are using, you know, encrypted communications these days, will we ever get an answer to that question of how much of a role that kash patel played in this, or was this all just face to face? was he sort of being read in? i don't know if we're ever going to be able to get sort of to the bottom of that question, certainly in time for kash patel's confirmation vote ultimately. >> which leads me to the question, frank, what you're hearing from folks, your friends who are still inside the fbi. >> yeah. they're leaving. that's what i'm hearing. they're they're out. their resumes are out. they're interviewing. they under

. >> a podcast podcaster, kyle serafin. he's someone who is in very close communication with with kash patel. kash patel foundation before kash patel was fbi director, actually had paid kyle serafin's family along with a couple of other right wing fbi special agents. and there was this this falling out because there's just disagreement about how this mar-a-lago raid was being discussed, because dan bongino accepted the sort of premise that there was something untoward about the mar-a-lago search that the fbi had had messed up there. and kyle serafin looked at those documents and, and said that, no, this is actually really standard operating procedure. so there was this enormous falling out, even though basically dan bongino was the reason that kyle serafin got onto the radar of kash patel and received that money. that's where he did his first interview, for example, when he was kyle serafin was still this fbi whistleblower. there was this falling out over just basic facts, because, you know, kyle, for everything about him.

his name is kyle serafin, and he was saying he would not be surprised if there was some discussions about some of these personnel arrangements, but insisted that he does not believe that kash patel himself is individualized, is individually pulling the strings with what's going on at the fbi. but obviously there's been a huge attempt to clear the decks here before kash patel potentially gets confirmed by the senate. >> chris ryan riley, thank you. ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy says he is open to talks. peace talks with vladimir putin. nbc's matt bradley following that story for us. this comes just days before zelenskyy is expected to meet with vice president j.d. vance. they're going to be at the munich security conference. what more can you tell us? >> yeah, chris, it's not just j.d. vance. secretary of state marco rubio also expected to meet zelenskyy at this annual munich security conference this weekend. there's also expected to be an appearance from the president's new special envoy to ukraine, keith kellogg, who the president said today is also expected to visit kyiv, the

but, you know, people have spoken with kyle serafin, who's this former fbi special agent who left theeen in kash patel ear. kash patel actually had. given his. >> family money right after. >> he was fired. there's a number of these, quote unquote, people who call themselves the expendables. that he's been in communication with who i think are, you know, sort of saying, here's what we think the problems are within the fbi and they're all sort of, you know, conservative fbi agents. >> and they had. >> a lot of issues with those january, with those january 6th cases. but i do think. >> that, you. >> know, this sort of kind of war on the fbi here is really united, the field and headquarters in a way that we haven't seen necessarily before, because there is a little bit of tension there, certainly, especially around these january 6th cases where you had field offices that just weren't enthusiastic about pursuing. these cases. but now when you talk about going after these career prosecutors, theoretically, you know, targeting these probationary agents, which would have devastating and years