his book "abraham lincoln: redeemer president" received the 2000 lincoln prize. you can look more at his bio and see all of the incredible . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . dr. elizabeth spalding is a senior fellow at pepperdine's school of public policy. last but not least, my dear colleague dakota wood from the davis institute for national security and or and here at the heritage foundation. before you get to meet our incredible panelists, i want to turn it over. we want to make sure you remember to engage in the conversation by putting your questions in the question box. welcome. dr. guelzo: thank you. being a history person, i'm going to start by sketching some background for how we got particular office of government we call the president of the united states. as it is, the president of the united states is probably the single most familiar face in the world, and the irony of that dominance is that very few people at the nation's founding expected that would ever be the case. the american revolution was, after all, a revolution against the rule of a single execu

was received politely by lincoln. johnson meets him and he calls him the dark delegation. when they leave, and nowadays we have people who have hot mics. you know? when politicians are caught saying things that are awful that are sometimes said openly. but his secretary recorded this. and johnson said, about this black delegation, that had came to talk about black rights and led by the great frederick douglass. these are his exact words. now pardon my french, because he was a cruel guy. one of the crudest american presidents actually. and he says those darn sons of bleep's had me in a trap. he's just like any bleep. he would soon a cut a white man's throat that not. this is the president of the united states talking about a black delegation headed by frederick douglass. you would never hear presidents talk about that manner. so his racism is acute. so he has these quick amnesty proclamations. we are the moment he comes the power, one republican says, this is which for a man who made president president by an assassin'

for example, his book "abraham lincoln" received the 2000 lincoln prize as well as the 2000 book prizeabraham institute of the mid-atlantic. you can look more at his bio and see all of the incredible work that he's contributed to our nation. joining us today is sabrina rosewell, former student body president at florida international university and a former heritage academy fellow. dr. spaulding is senior is fellow i at pepperdine universiy school of public policy and vice president for victims of communism memorial foundation. and last but not least, my dear colleague, dakota wood, who serves as senior research fellow for the center of the national institute of national security and foreign policy here at the heritage foundation. before you get to meet our incredible panelists though, i to turn it over to dr. alan geldo. welcome. >> thank you so much, angela, and what a pleasure to be able to participate in this program on the american presidency and why we have a president. and being a history person, i'm going to start off by sketching somey background for how we got this particular

for example, his book abraham lincoln, redeemer president received the 20000 lincoln prize as well as the 2000 book prize of the abraham institute of the mid-atlantic. you can look more at his bio and see all of the incredible work that he's contributed to our nation.ed joining dr. guelzo today will be sabrina leeloo rosell former student body president at florida international university and a former heritage academy fellow. doctor elizabeth spalding is a senior fellow at pepperdine university school of public policy and vice president for victims of communism memorial foundation. and last but not least, my dear colleague nicole would this was a senior research fellow for defense programs for the center for national defense at the davis institute for national security and foreign policy here at the heritage foundation. before you get to meet our incredible panel though i want to turn it over to doctor allen guelzo and as he joint we want to make sure remember to engage through the conversation by putting your question in the questions box. dr. guelzo, welcome. >> thank you so much, a

lincoln put it best in his gettysburg address.is rather for us to be the here, dedicated to the great task remaining before us, that from these honored dead, we find increased devotion to that cause for which they hear gave the last measure of devotion, that we hear highly resolved that these dead will not die in vain. that this nation under god shall have a new birth of freedom, and government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth. may we as a people and a nation indoor and prosper, may god bless you, and may god bless and preserve our great country. thank you, and go irish. [laughter] [applause] -- [applause] [applause] [applause] >> justice thomas, thank you. as we always do, we have time for questions from the audience. with covid it is difficult, we could pass around microphones. i believe you were given a card when you entered the building. there is a way to electronically submit questions to me. if you want to write your questions, you can do so on the card and we will pass them this

both like to tell it later president lincoln new president lincoln basically seem to like or they said he likes sickles is fighting spirit and health basically enable sickles his rise within the army the potomac i don't know if lincoln likes sickles as much as lincoln needed democrats really any democrat to kind of promote the war effort, but you know sickles is kind of become as a result the poster boy for the dreaded political general the guy who is gonna elevate and rise through the ranks with really no no commensurate military training such that it gettysburg sickles as you all know is going to command the third core and be the highest non-ranking west point during the army, but prior to that i would say that he you know, he appeared it. to me he appeared to have the makings of a competent brigade commander and i think as he moved up. literally brigade in 1861 division and 62 and then finally core command in 1863, you know looks like kind of this this this progressive rise on paper in rank, but i think particularly in 62 or 63 you start to see him kind of missing more and more batt

his previous book lincoln's tragic admiral the life of -- was awarded the william b. colby award. kevin has agreed to do this program in an interview format it more like a conversation which will be followed by questions from our audience. i would be grateful if all the members could put any questions in a q&a at the bottom of their screen. kevin thank you very much for joining us. >> thank you and her. i really appreciate the invitation and thanks to everybody is out there. >> i want to begin by asking you to discuss how your military background influenced your writing of the book lacks >> i think first of all you don't have to have the military background to tell a good military story and in fact they say the greatest military historians haven't had a military background sophie just look at some of the great military historians rick atkinson you don't have to have a military background but i do think having extensive military experience like i do can maybe add some different perspective to your research and writing. i know what it's like to slog through the woods or the desert t

that meant course was abraham lincoln . aswho came perhaps the declarations greatest proponent in and advocate. lincoln conceded that the declaration did not atassert the obvious untruth that all were then actually enjoying the quality nor yet that they were about to confer it immediately uponthem . but man's unequal station meant only that the dream was deferred. it remains to be obtained. as lincoln explained, the declaration proposed a standard maximum of the quality for a free society which should be familiar to all and revered by all. constantly looked to, constantly labored for and even though never perfectly attained, constantly approximated. and thereby constantly spreading and deepening in its influence and augmenting the happiness and the value of life. to all people of all colors everywhere. to lincoln this promise of equality was not merely important to the nation. it was foundational. there was no american nation without the declaration of independence. a year after his debates in springfield, lincoln made this

lincoln and the community decided to renovate a house.at he thought was another family in need. >> i was working very hard as i can because i always knew this was to help someone. >> he really got his hands dirty, learned a trade. >> this house is really for you and your family. >> it gave me something amazing. the house, which they gave me on christmas, which i didn't realize it would be my house. >> it was really the group who came together, and everyone pitched in their own way. >> my whole life, i have seen my brother be a champion for change, firsthand. lincoln has never been one to do things the conventional way. and he's always had a big heart and always wanted to serve others. >> sometimes you just need someone to believe in you in life to give you a chance, to get you going so your own life picks up, and you're good, and you can swim on your own. i can't wait to see where will is ten years from now, not because i'm going to push him too hard. the kid is going to work harder than anybody else. he's going to earn everything he's go

his previous book, lincoln's tragic afro, a life of samuel was awarded to william toby word.s agreed to do this program in anke interview and conversatn followed by questions from our audience. i'd be grateful if audience members could put questions in the q&a at the bottom of the screen. kevin, thank you for joining us. >> thank you, i really appreciate the dictation and thank you to everybody out there attending. >> i want to begin by asking you to discuss how your military background influenced the writing of the book. >> okay. first of all, it's important -- you don't have to be having military background to have a good military historian. i'd say the greatest military historian hasn't had a military background so you look at military historians rick atkinson, andrew, you -- you don't have to havee a military background but i do think having extensive militaryit experience like i do can maybe add different perspectives to research and t writing. little things like i know what it's like to go through the woods, but those are wet, tired and hungry for six days straight for

overs in lincoln, california, which is northeast of sacramento a part of district 6.he kiley represents, we're told he'll be making an appearance in this room and around 07:30pm, tonight to join his supporters before the polls close at 8 kiley is one of 46 challengers hoping to unseat governor gavin newsome. our cameras were there as the lawyer and former educator turned in his ballot this morning. like his fellow republicans hoping to unseat governor newsom. kylie is asking voters to vote yes on the recall and then select him as the replacement if he's elected. he says he will focus on the basics paving roads maintaining our power grid managing our forests and funding the police kiley has been a vocal critic of governor newsome while campaigning for this recall election. >> but he has stopped short of attacking other republicans vying for the job. take a listen. california. >> it's are crying out for change. this recall is presenting an opportunity to effect that change. and this opportunity has come to us and not because of anything that politicians like we have don

his previous book, lincoln's track to capital, was awarded the william colby award. kevin has agreed to do this program and theno anything formt more like a conversation which will be followed by questions from our audience, and i would be grateful that audience members could put any questions in the q&a at the bottom of their screen. kevin, thank you very much indeed for joining us. >> thank you, andrew. i appreciate the invitation, and thanks to everybody who is out there attending. >> and so i want to begin by asking you to discuss how your military background influenced your writing ofoo the book. >> okay. well, i think first of all it's important, you don't, have to have military background to be a good military historian. in fact, i'd say the greatest military historians haven't had a military background, so you just look att some of the great military historians, you don't have to have a military background. but it do think that having extensive militaryin experience like i do can may be ad some different perspectives to your research and writing. little thing

tilt during the civil war -- lincoln built during the civil war. they said you should not spend the materials on a showman we are fighting a war and he said we must show our strength and we must show that we can move forward at the same time as we protect our union. that is the story of the dome built by abraham lincoln to demonstrate who we are as americans, resilient and strong. an assault on the building is one thing but they also made an assault on the constitution of the united states stop january 6 is not a random day, it is the date prescribed in the constitution of the united states for the congress of the united states to accept the results of the election as put forth by the electoral college. it's so sad that even with the defecation, the physical violence, the crudeness of it all of that assault on the capital and we all agreed that we would come back stop we were not going to resume someplace else. we were going to come back in the capital of the united states. even after all of that, a majority of the republicans in the house voted no

it's great if you can have it from abraham lincoln. and you can today still purchase all manner of fruits and vegetables; cucumbers, wall streets, turn ups, lettuce -- turn nips, lettuce, cabbage, the like. and you can purchase those online through specialized seed growers. and i believe as a treat, so those attending the event in person and picking up their boxed lunches, there's going to be a seed packet of the type of seeds that would have been grown at the white house during the is 19th century. >> that's a wonderful legacy, it really is, in our backyard. i live in washington, d.c., same house for 40 years. and my husband's always had a big vegetable garden. it was only during the pandemic that i started an actual flower gardennen. [laughter] maybe i should see whether the, you know, past presidents grew iris and peonies as i'm hoping this year mine will come up for the first time. >> well, i can tell you for a fact that first lady edith roosevelt, the wife of theodore roosevelt, had -- you said irises and peonies? yeah, she defini

lincoln-esque but i don't think they've dug deeply in the virtues of abraham lincoln. they didn't delve deeply into his sense of courage, integrity. we know that his ultimate goal was to preserve the union, as it should have been. he was in fact the president of the united states of america, not of the union states, not of the confederate states. but often as they proceed tend lincoln hiving, it's abandoned along the trash heap of highways of despair. first of all, the bill back better is paid for over 10 years, in contrast to the debacle voted on 2-a-1 by my friends on the other side of the aisle of the trump tax cut, 83% for those who were already flourishing in dollars and left the bus drivers and teachers and paramedics, nurses and emergency room doctors along the highway with tin cups. any plan for embellishing, staffing, and that's what it is, for the internal revenue service, which we should continue to have oversight, is to ensure that those who have paid not a dime, not a dime, not a dime, mr. speaker, pay their fair share. do you think any american is against

the white house grew most of the that was consumed by the lincoln's and mary todd lincoln had a special interest in the flowers but also the kitchen garden. the period accounts state that she delivered strawberries directly from the white house kitchen garden to convalescing union soldiers in the washington union hospital.. >> really? and of course the kitchen garden was something that was kind of rot back in the 2000 tons but i assume they had a garden to help feed the family if not convalescence there most of the late 1800's and into the 1900s. >> yes. the first fruits and vegetables are probably landed on the white house grounds during james madison's tenure so from 1809 may be into prior to the burning of the white house in 1812 but really it took off under the tenure of john quincy adams and ben jackson. that's when they describe the kitchen as if really got going and what i find interesting and i think other people well as well i was able to track down the receipts for fruits and vegetable seeds purchased during the lincoln administration. >> i'm people ate not today what american

both benedict arnold and benjamin lincoln are generals that have those traits. mainly because of his work early in the war around boston. so the key american commanders at the end when this is all said and done, the primary commander and his two major subordinates of benedict arnold i don't think it is any surprise at all three of them work very well with militia for a very interesting talk easily forward to reading the book. it is a privilege for us. so i have to say at west point i was enormously impressed by the american army in the offices they are it did not coincide i would imagine those instructors would be happy to be back at west point out of harm's way but actually it is quite the opposite. >> and to be what those fellow officers are involved with. that they want to be there they are not officers like you met brought in civilians. didn't just try to blame it on the press that they had military lessons. it was just very impressive. >> did any part of the campaign take place at fort william henry? >> that campaign came through the area, especially the lo

both benedict arnold and benjamin lincoln are generals that have those traits. gates does to.ngland militia like skates as well because of his work early inea the war up around boston. so the key american commanders at theri end when this is all said and done. and his two major subordinates and benedict arnold, i don't think it's any surprise at all three of them work very well with the militia. >> and it is a privilege so now it hasn't coincided and i would imagine to be back at west point and out of harms way that actually it was quite the opposite obviously intensely emotionally involved in those officers we were involved with. >> officers like you and then try to blame it. and then we have questions been a part of the campaign take place in lake george village at fort william henry quick. >> but especially the logistics so when aces ticonderogaic they also take the southern tip of lake champlain. with the big artillery train and the large piece of his logistics train into the tip of lake george where the road network is pretty good to head south and he decides to move the

in the us, secretary, if they lincoln said on many occasions that day, that out of all the countries that had to help us when it, when it came to their evacuations and candidates and no country had done more than i had done right here. here on our right. now it's getting to be that the folks that are not sorry, sorry to cut you off. so you sort of cut you off behind what we've got to take a quick break right now. we're going to have lots more coverage and reaction to this in a couple of minutes in our next bulletin. so stay with us here on agile as we cover this story and many others it was meant to be that day. did you hear a car was going on quick? i could put a project attack stunned the world. and the u. s. president, a guy came in and whispered something into the prisoner's ear. what did he just waited for the school children present? the events of september, the 11th, defined the world. they grew up in just a huge moment. these are their stories. 911 witness on al jazeera. ah, ah, ah, phone era, online, the post at the debate or pacific people, the ocean is our identity and the

offense, secretary lloyd austin at met the amir of casa in dough half a talks on ive canister on lincoln, austin, and shake to me. i've been home at all, found a discuss the ongoing efforts to evacuate remaining us citizens from afghanistan, lincoln. frank's cat office supporting the us lead evacuation operation. guineas military rulers have bought officials from leaving the country coolers. some men assistant told them to hand over that passports and vehicles. they promised to set up a transitional government, brazil as president, jaya boston, r. o. assigned a decree to change social media regulations. his office says that it gives people the right to re post band content. a spokesperson said that it combat the arbitrary removal of certain accounts, profiles, and posts. also, nor is office, says the decree aims to protect freedom of speech, amount hunters on the way for 6 palestinians who escaped from a prison in israel. they dug a tunnel under the guild jail, just north of the occupied westbank 5. and then there's of the islamic, she had movement, while the 6 this carrier is obeyed, a

that is the story of the dome built by abraham lincoln to demonstrate who we are as americans. resilient and strong. when i made the assault -- when they made the assault on the building, that was one thing but they also made an assault on the constitution of the united states. january 6 is not just any random day. it is a date prescribed in the constitution of the united states for the congress of the united states to accept the results of the election as put forth by the electoral college. so sad that even with the horror to get -- horro -- horror, the dedication, the crudeness of the assault on the capitol, and senator mcconnell and i agreed that we would come back. we were not going to resume someplace else. we would come back not in an undisclosed location but in the capitol of the united states. after all of that, a majority of the republicans in the house voted not to accept certification of the electoral college. now, these people are coming back to praise the people who were out to kill them. out to kill members of congress. successfully causing the deaths -- successfu

and lincoln. i was pleased to see this on the list for a number of reasons. one of the key recommendations from the district 4 mobility study was traffic calming and pedestrian safety improvements on lincoln way, and also as a staff memo for this item noted, this intersection has been the location of 12 injuries over the past five years, and also traffic volume at this intersection has increased significantly. i think it said it doubled -- tc lines doubled since 2018. i think some of that is due to the closure of the great highway, where we have seen significant increases in traffic volume on lincoln way, between the great highway and sunset. and also on chain of lakes drive and golden gate park. it is really good to see this on the list. i guess i was concerned that there was an asterisk, and it said that this might be removed from the list if m.l.k. drive in golden gate park is reopened. so i just want to understand that. that concerns me, and i don't understand why this would be removed from th

game territory across gun stone, lincoln told the foreign relations committee that the rapid fall of cargo took us intelligence by surprise. we collectively over 20 years invested as coronary amounts in those security forces and in that government. hundreds of millions of dollars, equipment, training, advice support and based on that as well as based on what we were looking at real time. again. we did not see this collapse in a matter of 11 days. rosalind jordan has more now from capitol hill. us secretary of state antony blank and spent a 2nd day testifying on capitol hill this time before the senate foreign relations committee, while the tone of hearing was not as contentious as it was before the house foreign affairs committee on monday, lincoln still faced a lot of criticism on behalf of the by dent ministration for how it conducted the military drop down and evacuation of us citizens from afghanistan in the last half of august, while blink and tried to put a good face on what he did say turned out to be a more chaotic situation than planners had expected. one of the us senators

while stopping by a compound housing afghan refugees lincoln met members of the afghan girls robotic team. another attempt at reassurance in uncertain times. mamma jim drama is here. several planes chartered to evacuate about 2000 afghans and the americans are still on the airport tarmac in the northern city of missouri sharif that have been reports that the taliban are blocking hundreds of people from boarding charter flights out of the country. taliban officials say that will let people who have proper passports and documentation, leave africa and american citizens of been enlarge residence halls and hotels for more than a week, waiting for permission to board. ah, frances top court of appeal has ruled against one of the country's largest companies, over allegations that it funded i sold in syria. the court overturned a ruling not the formerly investigate cement manufacturer and la forge for complicity in crimes against humanity. natasha butler has more from paris when firmly a big blow to the forge is reputation. judges from says highest court effectively overturning this 2019 rul

but i do read the news as most americans do, and we realize this was a complete debacle. lincoln also faced questions about what efforts are being carried out in order to provide safe passage, not just to us citizens and permanent residents who want to leave afghanistan. but also to help the thousands of afghans who worked with the us military service primarily as translators, and go betweens during the 20 year long war. there was also the question of what the u. s. is going to do to protect the games that women and girls and afghan stan have enjoyed in the last 2 decades. but a lot of the questions that senators from both the democratic and republican party had, couldn't be answered because they were questions about how the military performed. and without the presence of the defense, secretary lloyd austin, it was pretty much impossible for anthony blinking to satisfy the senators outrage and curiosity. 3 former us intelligence offices of admitted providing sophisticated hacking technology. so the united arab emirates, the us justice department, says the to have a great agrees to pay

after those nato meetings in june, you heard very strong objections sector, lincoln to a total withdraw you came back in. according to the woodward cost a book, you revised some of your proposals and suggested a slower withdrawl. leaving a footprint, a smaller footprint secretary austin, credited the book. you suggested a slower withdrawl, a gated proposal, perhaps to provide room for negotiation, the taliban. so according to the book, you also had a deep analysis of a worst case scenario, where al qaeda would indeed reform and be able to eventually pose a threat to the homeland. so what does that say about the assessments and about the decisions that were eventually made to withdraw, as you did, you know, unilaterally without proper consultations or at least in contradiction to what you heard at nato, and russell and secretary austin with your indulgence, this is our 1st opportunity to ask you to respond to those republicans on the hill, including course the former president, demanding the firing of the chairman of the joint chief general midway. thank you very much. thanks andrea. i'm

my champion is my big brother lincoln.t seeking recognition for it. this is an example of that. he gave christmas presents to an immigrant family in need and that one positive act led to a community rallying around and helping the family. today the mom and her three children are thriving after a difficult start in america. >> lincoln and will have forged a bond that changed both of their lyes. for the rest of their lives. >> christmas 20818 i was looking to give back. i had posted on facebook for the first time in years saying if you know a family that needs help or anyone let me know. the teacher said there's a family in bad shape. they need help and can you bring us some presents? first time i met will he moved here from tanzania. his mom has a daughter and there's no day care or child care. what is she supposed to do? will has to stay home to take care of his sister. so sweet and kind. left an i'm inprint on my heart. >> we walked away and he felt like that wasn't right. there needs to be more done and by getting friend

first of this year, lincoln said the administration did all it could to get us citizens, permanent resident and afghans who had worked with the us military out of the country before august 31st, he admitted no one thought afghan troops would fold so quickly or that president ross ghani, would flee, and he tried to focus on the positive tens of thousands evacuated as quickly as possible. international agreement. the tolerable would be punished if it harmed women and girls. humanitarian aid increased. while democratic legislators were largely sympathetic, there was still some skepticism. and it seems absurd, at least in retrospect, to think that the average afghan grunt would fight in the trenches while seeing those who are best connected. desperate to flee in a matter of days blank and didn't satisfy all of the representatives complaint. and that's to be expected. blinking also didn't give the representatives what some of them wanted to hear. a promise that the us military is going back to afghanistan to serve as a chuck on the taller bonds power. on one point, the secretary and the congress

while stopping by a compound housing afghan refugees lincoln met members of the afghan girls robotic team. another attempt at reassurance in uncertain times. mohammed jim drama just now 41. people have been killed and fired a prison in indonesia, the blades that the tango and jail knew the capitol. jakarta has not been put out more than 78 people were injured with jessica washington is out the scene in time, durango joins us live. jessica, talk us through what more details are emerging now about the fire? i'm here in town grown outside the prison and we've just heard from authorities some new details about these tragic incidents we just heard from the indonesia minister for law and human rights revealed some new information that firefighters janice did arrive on the scene. about 13 minutes after the fire daunted, and they were able to put out the fire within about an hour and a half of it being reported. but unfortunately, the fire spread so fast and according to authorities, they didn't have sufficient time to open up all of the cell while the fire was spreading. and unfortunately,

lincoln met members of the afghan girls robotic team. another attempt at reassurance in uncertain times, mohammed gym to me and just several planes chartered to evacuate about 2000 afghans and the americans are still on the airport. tarmac in the northern city of missouri sharif. there have been reports for the palate under blocking hundreds of people from boarding charter flights out of the country. taliban officials that say that will lead people who have the proper passports and documentation leave. afghan and american citizens have been enlarged, residence halls and hotels for more than a week, waiting for permission to board. at least 2 people have been shot dead and several more injured after a protest in the western african city of had act. dozens of people march to demonstrate against pakistan's allege support of the taliban. women were also holding for greater representation in the new government and for their rights to be respected. members of the taliban have fired shots into the air in kabul to disperse hundreds of protesters

while stopping by a compound housing afghan refugees lincoln met members of the afghan girls robotic team. another attempt at reassurance, an uncertain times. mamma jim drama is either the mexico supreme court has de criminalized abortion and rules unanimously. the penalizing terminations is unconstitutional. that means with courts and mexico can no longer prosecute abortion cases. it's a major victory for pro abortion rights advocates just as parts of the united states and act tough a laws against the procedure and speak to isabel folder in mexico city. she's the deputy director at the information group for reproductive choice content with a set as well. what does this supreme court ruling actually mean for reproductive choice in mexico, making it legal doesn't mean that it will be freely available, does it? yes, it doesn't. thank you very much. it means that we just said that that abortion criminalization has been means that all judges will be used in the sense that if they get a case going to be criminalized, they have 40, which means not criminal. but this does not mean an establ

the first thing that occurred is that abraham lincoln promoted and a sign major general benjamin butler to come and take command of fort monroe. almost on the heels of that the commonwealth of virginia who had been sitting on the fence on whether or not to stay under the protection of the united states are joined to confederacy finally made a decision and that decision was indeed. they would join the new confederate government and invite the national capital to be removed to the city of richmond, virginia. butler takes command, virginia leaves the union during all this three individuals three brave individuals baker townsend mallory would steal a ship? row across the chesapeake bay present themselves at the gate of the american soldiers and say we're run away slaves seek be refugees and protection. they were invited into the fort the very next day major general benjamin butler interviewed the three individuals and he found out that these individuals were being used for the use of the confederate army to build trenches and to do chores around the confederate camp. that same day the owner

a form of words had to be found here and there was a loss of agreement between mister consecutive lincoln and the foreign mister high co mass about suddenly about to the composition of this interim. can't take a government announced by the taliban. also about the evacuation procedure that was underway. we heard secretary, blaine can thank the german government for allowing one quarter more than a quarter of only a vacuum to transit through ramstein on their way to their eventual destinations. the clearly what we also saw that was the, the view from both leaders. when there was a question about the recognition of the new government of the taliban in afghanistan. secretary lincoln saying that we need to see that the, that the world needs to see and hear the words and deeds of the taliban in government as it were before it can pass a judgment on what will be possible with the taliban in terms of representation. diplomacy that sort of thing. and that was echoed by foreign minister mosse way. and the question was put to him about whether that would be the recognition of the government there. a