lisa rubin, thank you very much. blayne alexander, thank you as well. >>> we're going to go back to our breaking news out of russia, yevgeny prigozhin is believed to be dead. state media reports he was on the passenger manifest of the small plane that crashed into the tver region north of moscow. nbc news has not confirmed the reporting but here is the video, again, this is according to russian state media. the plane falling from the sky. and then the burning remains in a crash. if the reporting is true, the timing is obviously suspicious. it is two months to the day since prigozhin tried to lead a mutiny against the kremlin. when that uprising failed, experts predicted it was only a matter of time before prigozhin met his own fate. here's what secretary of state antony blinken told our andrea mitchell, quote, if i were prigozhin, i would remain very concerned. nato has an open door policy. russia has an open windows policy. and he needs to be very focused on that. again, we have not confirmed any of the circumstance

with us now to start off our coverage this hour, msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin, outside the fulton county courthouse in atlanta. nbc news correspondent blayne alexander outside the fulton county jail in atlanta. dave aaronburg, state attorney for palm beach county, florida. keisha lance bottoms, former mayor of atlanta, former director of the white house office of public engagement. so, lisa, what more do we know about this hearing currently under way on the harrison floyd case? >> so, jose, we were expecting that hearing to take place right behind me at the fulton county courthouse, but as of right now, it is unclear whether that hearing is taking place here or with a magistrate judge at the fulton county jail where blayne is right now. and either event, one of the things that will undoubtedly come up is why harrison floyd is the only one of the 19 defendants who remains in custody. the fulton county sheriff said he was unable to negotiate a bond for himself, but why is still a mystery. is it because harrison floyd couldn't come up with the necessary funds to negotiate a bond order, or i

let's bring back in lisa rubin, our legal analyst.federal court asking a judge to make a ruling before friday that says that his case is moving to federal court or that fani willis cannot arrest him. >> that's right. so mark meadows already had filed what is called a notice of removal. he has a hearing scheduled on that notice of removal for monday. and it is not just any hearing. it is supposed to be an evidentiary hearing where you can present evidence, whether it is emails or hard copy documents or even put people on the stand. many of us were waiting to see how that would go down on monday. now mark meadows is saying, hey court, you need to decide that motion before friday because my lawyers have tried to work out a reasonable extension with the d.a.'s office and they are not having it. in fact in this motion, mark meadows' lawyers quote from an email directly from fani willis to one of the lawyers saying i'm not granting any extensions. i gave two weeks for people to surrender themselves to the court, your client is no different

catherine christian, greg lieu steen, lisa rubin, thank you to all of you.ant to bring in nakema williams. congresswoman, thanks very much for being with us today. you released a statement last night as we were going through the indictment last night and overnight, and i want to play part of what shaye moss had to say. that's a critical piece of the indictment. >> and several things they include threats. >> yes. a lot of threats, wishing death upon me, telling me that, you know, i'll be in jail with my mother, and saying things like be glad it's 2020 and not 1920. >> i mean, that was such a compelling -- she and ruby freeman. ruby freeman, the election worker, you know, rather than her daughter, is mentioned. how powerful is that to, you know, to relate this case, which can seem very distanced to people to the american voter? >> andrea, thank you for uplifting those stories because i remind people all the time that i don't represent numbers, i represent real people. ruby freeman and shaye moss, they're constituents. they love right here and they were electio

joining us now former litigator and now an msnbc legal analyst, lisa rubin. lisa, great to see you again this morning. you will be in that courtroom for the 10:00 hearing. what are you expecting? >> i'm expecting, john, that judge chutkan is really going to make clear that this is her courtroom and that she has the right to make decisions about how this trial is conducted from start to finish. you have to ask yourself why is judge chutkan having this hearing at? she could have decided a protective order on the papers, and there are copious submissions from both sides indicating which way they want this protective order to go. i think judge chutkan has asked them to come in because she wants to make a few things clear on the record. one, this is not a silencing mechanism of donald trump with respect to his first amendment rights. this is just about evidence in the case and what about that evidence he can talk about. and then she also wants to make clear to his lawyers if he violates the terms of the order she is going to impose today, what those consequences ar

joining us now former litigator and msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin. lisa, great to see you as always. so let's start there with the monday news conference. it was going to be in bedminster, new jersey, now off. certainly there was concern in trump world the former president was going to get up there and either say something or show-off in whatever this report might be that would just get hemip more legal trouble. is that why -- was it the prudent thing for him to do to table that? >> it was absolutely the prudent thing for him to do to table that. i might suggest another reason why it's off the table. president trump has gone through a series of lawyers that no longer work for him. we're playing legal musical chairs when it comes to donald trump. he has some good counsel in john lauro and todd blanch. i would not be surprised and they said to him something to the effect of if you continue down this path, you will do so, sir, with other lawyers at your side. our reputations are too important to us. so, john, i think that is another element to president

i want to bring in nbc's legal analyst lisa rubin who has been inside the court all morning. now, josÉ, it was a really interesting and particularly well-litigated hearing, i thought both parties were exceptionally professional, as was judge tanya chutkan who made very clear donald trump is going to be treated like any other criminal defendant in her courtroom, not better, not worse, and this is a case where she made very clear to the parties it doesn't matter to me that he is a candidate for president of the united states. that is not going to bear on my decision-making at all. she, therefore, entered a fairly routine protective order but did not give the government all that it wanted. it is not what we refer to as a blanket protective order, it doesn't cover every single bit of evidence in the case, but what it does cover is a wide swath of sensitive materials, including importantly witness statements, interviews and audio recordings both inside and outside the grand jury. one of the biggest revelations today was the government telling the judge that their default practice i

our legal analyst lisa rubin is joining us now from the courthouse in atlanta. do we know about this hearing, lisa? >> reporter: hey, ana, i'm having a little bit of trouble hearing you right now, but what we know right now is that harrison floyd, who is the only one of the 19 defendants in this election interference case to be still in custody has his initial appearance with judge scott mcafee at 11:00 a.m. this won't be only the first hearing in the case, but the first time we actually hear from judge scott mcafee in person. he is a relatively new judge at 34 years old, he's only been on the bench for six months, and you heard me right, he's 34 years old. he's a relatively young lawyer to begin with. we expect harrison floyd's hearing to start at around 11:00 a.m. this morning. one of the things that will obviously be discussed is why he's still in custody and whether he should be released. whether he is unable to post bond or if there are other reasons why he remains in detention at the rice street jail here in fulton county, georgia, ana. >> lisa rubin, than

joinings now with more is nbc's ali vitali in fulton county, georgia, and lisa rubin msnbc legal analystil friday at noon to turn themselves in. what can we expect the next couple of days to look like? >> reporter: more of this waiting game, jose. we know from our law enforcement sources, as you just mentioned, the fact that the former president is not expected to turn himself in until at least thursday of this week, that allows him ample time to do some counter programming in the middle of the week for what would otherwise be the night of the first gop primary presidential debate, trump himself saying he's not going to be there. we expect him to be doing another kind of counter programming event with potentially an interview with someone like tucker carlson that would be wednesday night. really, it's just another moment of trump being defiant in the face of not just this fulton county probe, which of course we're waiting for him to surrender in, but also as we see other things moving forward in different probes of the former president, specifically in regards to the department of justic

. >> i want to bring in msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin from outside the fulton county courthouse, from the jailhouse, nbc's vaughn hillyard, who is following the trump campaign for us. and former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst, barbara mcquade. the clock has officially run out in atlanta for the defendants to turn themselves in after what has been, and i think this is an understatement, a whirlwind week. what's the latest from there? >> well, chris you know that all 19 defendants have now been booked and released. the latest being steven lee who spoke to our gabe gutierrez with his attorney after his release. steven lee told our folks that the reason that he was the last to post bond is he had trouble raising the money which has been a continuous theme this week. only harrison floyd remains in custody. he is entitled to a first appearance in the next 72 hours or 72 hours from his arrest, and then of course on monday, we're going to see twin hearings of major consequence to the when and where the election interference cases against donald trump are tried. one hearing here in fult

. >> msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin points out this day, november 5th, is the very same date that pro trump lawyer, lida mitchell, email john eastman saying, "what would you think of producing a legal memo outlining the constitutional role of state legislatures in designating electors?" four days later on november 9th, eastman is circulating a memo titled, "the constitutional authority of state legislators to choose electors." one more thing. it was mark meadows who recruited that lawyer i mentioned into the efforts to overturn the election. in the same timeframe, early november, meadows was texting with gop lawmakers and don junior about the electors part, including text about the scene as early as november 4th, a day before the stone video. by november, meadows is telling someone he had "a team on it" and now is lisa rubin, msnbc legal analyst, and emily sassine, new york times legal writer. lisa, this is the thing. i don't have to be rudy giuliani to know a legal case. i don't have a legal expert to know a large fema conspiracy. the fact that we now have this larger stone video, an

lisa rubin joins me now.he contours of this and today we got a bunch more that really show what went down. what did we get access to today, and what doesn't show? >> you can access to a number of grant transcripts where the government and twitter was outside counsel are swearing off in front of one of maybe the toughest judges and the district of columbia's federal court, judge beryl highly howell, who i should not had intimate familiarity with what the officers have done in the past. why? because she was chief the judge of the district and presided overall granary and communication deserts disputes during the mueller investigation and uses that knowledge to interrogate twitter's council saying are you not aware of the fact that the mueller team, for example, got over 230 orders just like this to access stored communication? do you think in any of those instances the special counsel's team went to the white house and said hey, we're gonna give you a heads up, we're looking for confidential communications. no,

legal analysts analyst lisa rubin has been following this. >> color me shocked.ong the legal experts who said there's no way he takes the stand. his lawyer, former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of virginia george terwilliger, a great lawyer by all accounts, there's no way that terwilliger lets him take the stand. they must have made the calculus that being in federal court were so important to them that it was worth basically playing the play and taking the shot no one thought you could make. >> one thought is a jury. paul fulton county is different from, i think there are nine counties across northern georgia? a totally different universe. i'm on the record of the show, and i want to maintain this, i have faith in americans. i really do. so i think this idea of oh, it's a florida palm beach, the julie jury pool, when lindsey graham says you can't try him in washington d. c.. personally i think, i'm willing to put my faith in americans of all different stripes. do you think that's what -- driving this? >> i think partially that and also a view that to th

. >> i want to bring in msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin who was in the courthouse. if i can just pick up on what we were talking about there with ryan, i'm reading the notes as they're coming in, and i couldn't even process in many ways some of them as he just referred to it, it almost sounded like there's a conversation about whether or not donald trump essentially needs a sort of baby-sitter there with him as he's looking at these documents. ultimately they decided no, although there were, as i understand it, restrictions. tell us what your impressions were and what your headlines are out of this. >> reporter: yeah, so chris, one of my big headlines out of this is judge tanya chutkan wanted to make perfectly clear to both sides that she is running the show here. and not only is she running the show, but it may be that donald trump's day job, as she referred to it is running for president, but the fact that this is existing against the backdrop of a political campaign is of no moment to her. she's going to treat donald trump as a criminal defendant, no more, no les

lisa rubin is an msnbc legal analyst. great to have all of you here. let me start with the security risk, frank, because we reported last hour on those death threats against judge chutcan. we saw the indictment there names, the addresses were published on this web site, how big a challenge is this and is it going to end up being a local, state, federal government effort if they want to keep the trials safe and the people around them safe? . >> this will be an all hands on deck effort, it was the department of homeland security agents that made the arrest of the texas woman in the threat against judge chutkan. that's not something you see every day, and i'm wondering if this is all hands on deck because of the volume of threats or if there's a new division of labor that had to be put in place. i'm looking into that. this is the highest threat level i have seen in recent memory for sure, and we've got a couple of different things happening, trump is inciting this. trump is also using proxies so that he kind of wants to ride the fans with regard to legali

joining me now, msnbc legal analyst, lisa rubin who's at the d.c. s and was inside for the hearing. so, lisa, what stood out to you? >> reporter: there are a lot of things that stood out to me, katy, not the least of which the most famous person in the courtroom today obviously was not former president donald trump but harry dunn and it struck me that a number of people you and i could walk by on the street and not recognize were in charge of helping a judge decide what president trump can see, what he can talk about and what is the most weighty of the three criminal indictments against him. a bunch of people who are virtual strangers to the american public but also helping together to make a decision that will be incredibly impactful in the year ahead. >> let's talk about the warning that she gave donald trump and his attorneys and also the special counsel's office, talking about what she will tolerate and what she will not. >> reporter: yeah, there were a number of instances during the trial today where the parties took pot shots at each other. joh

thank you so much, lisa rubin, ken dilanian and vaughn hillyard for the conversation. >>> up next here on "ana cabrera reports," i'll talk with montgomery alabama's first black mayor about the river front brawl. does the mayor think there was a racial element to this fight? and if so why don't the charges reflect that? >>> plus, flash floods, baseball-sized hail and downed power lines. more extreme weather battering the u.s. leaving tens of thousands without power. the u.s. leaving tens of thousands without power. astepro allergy, steroid free allergy relief that starts working in 30 minutes, while other allergy sprays take hours. with astepro's unbeatably fast allergy relief you can astepro and go! lactaid is 100% real milk, just without the lactose. delicious too. just ask my old friend, kevin. nothing like enjoying a cold one while watching the game. who's winning? no idea. real milk. real delicious. and don't forget to try some delicious, creamy lactaid ice cream. what's that mabel? (mooo) wow, smart cow! at&t and verizon rope you in with phone offers, then bind you to a 3-year dev

nbc's ken dilanian and former analyst lisa rubin. good morning to you all. let's dive right now as we begin with a start date now set for donald trump's federal election interference trial. district court judge tanya chutkan ordered jury selection to begin on march 4th of next year. that's just one day before super tuesday. prosecutors had asked for the trial to begin in early january of next year, while trump's lawyers proposed it begin in april of 2026. yesterday, judge chutkan said neither of those dates were acceptable, but, quote, this case is not going to trial in 2026. that decision was met with pushback inside the courtroom from trump attorney john lauro, who was cautioned twice by the judge to turn down the temperature when he was speaking. lauro claimed it was the violation of the oath to do justice that the former president be tried so soon, arguing he would not have time to prepare his client's defense. judge chutkan dismissed the concerns, noting that trump has been aware since last year that he was the focus of jack smith's investigation and co

lisa rubin, thank you, as always, for your time, my friend.ill ahead tonight -- donald trump's plans for complete exoneration. those are all his caps, not mine. in the fulton county rico case. but first, disgraced rapper ye -- his former publicist was indicted in fulton county last, night alongside former president donald trump. why was a former representative of the far-right rapper trying to subvert the will of voters in atlanta? that is next. at is next think hairspray's stuck in one dimension? think again. flex any style... with hairspray that flexes with you. new tresemmé hairspray. ♪ ♪ ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. on the top of the pile! oh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ with a majority of my patience with sensitivity, i see irritated gums and weak enamel. sensodyne sensitivity gum & enamel relieves s

lisa rubin, thank you, as always, for your time, my friend.> still ahead tonight -- donald trump's plans for complete exoneration. those are all his caps, not mine. in the fulton county rico case. but first, disgraced rapper ye -- his former publicist was indicted in fulton county last, night alongside former president donald trump. why was a former representative of the far-right rapper trying to subvert the will of voters in atlanta? that is next. my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪ it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala is a once-monthly add-on treatment for severe eosinophilic asthma that can mean less oral steroids. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your asthma specialist about a nunormal with nucal

joining me now, msnbc legal analyst, lisa rubin, so lisa, let us start with the most recent news, thatth saying, hey, i want this election interference case to be tried in january. >> yeah, that's somewhat of a surprise that he wants it to be tried this soon. on the other hand, we see donald trump and his social media posts and in his public appearance saying joe biden's crooked doj waited two and a half years to charge me. they could have done this sooner is the implication, well, now they're saying, hey, if you knew everything that was in the indictment already and you're saying we should have been prepared to do this much sooner, surely you must be prepared as well. >> there's going to be a hearing on the protective order in that case tomorrow. a judge will be deciding whether or not to impose one and if so how restrictive it will be. could we also hear them debating a trial date in that hearing? >> we won't. and here's why. trump's team has until august 17th to submit their own brief, not only on a proposed trial date but all of those intervening deadline, and then we'll probably h

lisa rubin. lisa, from the outside it looked like a remarkably choreographed in fairly undramatic processing. it was pretty speedy, in fact, from the outside. again, can you offers any detail about what might have happened in inside the jail as donald trump came in for his arrest? >> when donald trump came in for his arrest, alex, i think what's mostly remarkable about it, how unremarkable it was. except for the speed with which he was processed. which isn't something that isn't normal defendants might encounter. but he was fingerprinted, he obviously had his picture taken, and they ensured that he posted a bond, he referred earlier, to the negotiation of his bond through a bail bondsman. and the process was largely over, and donald trump returned to his, car and the motorcade left. it was a short proceeding. and a fairly undramatic. one for the fact that it even happened at all, you're not standing here at the fulton county courthouse, to my, right there's a parking garage, where someone has hung

lisa rubin. lisa, from the outside it looked like a remarkably choreographed in fairly undramatic processing. it was pretty speedy, in fact, from the outside. again, can you offers any detail about what might have happened in inside the jail as donald trump came in for his arrest? >> when donald trump came in for his arrest, alex, i think what's mostly remarkable about it, how unremarkable it was. except for the speed with which he was processed. which isn't something that isn't normal defendants might encounter. but he was fingerprinted, he obviously had his picture taken, and they ensured that he posted a bond, he referred earlier, to the negotiation of his bond through a bail bondsman. and the process was largely over, and donald trump returned to his, car and the motorcade left. it was a short proceeding. and a fairly undramatic. one for the fact that it even happened at all, you're not standing here at the fulton county courthouse, to my, right there's a parking garage, where someone has hung

joining us to discuss our not so secret weapon lisa rubin. thanks for being here. this is something we casually talk about, when's it going to happen in arizona? but the parallels of what happened in arizona and what happened in georgia during the 2020 election are eerily similar. how much do you think this georgia indictment sort of puts the pressure or pushes the ball forward over in arizona? >> i wouldn't call it pressure because each state is its own political ecosystem. one of the key difference here is republicans in arizona still pledge fealty to donald trump. and those that didn't like rusta bowers or even mark who ran and didn't succeed because he took on donald trump, those people no longer have power in arizona. on the other hand, in georgia they did, so they were unafraid to talk to fani willis, whether they did so voluntarily or a wink, wink, nod nod subpoena i'll come on in, those people had to be tremendously helpful to her. >> that's such an important distinction actually the way georgia republicans handled this versus the arizona republicans. what

trial play out as soon as possible. 30 minute with someone who is inside that courtroom today, lisa rubin, nbc legal analyst. lisa i was following your notes and it seem pretty fascinating. what was it like inside the courtroom today? >> it was fascinating, and a stunning daboll debut. as you noted for tanya chutkan, who was an unknown player to most of us following this drama. she was alternately funny at one point, trump's lawyer john laura was said to who her, your honor, you hit the nail on the head and she said i think that the last time you're gonna say that. she was firm into things and particular. she was from that the first amendment rights donald trump demands have to yield to the field administration of justice and said political act calculations are not entering her decision-making in either direction. i was really impressed by how clever judge chutkan was because we all know that donald trump is like the honey badger of his own political life. he doesn't give a flying leap about some of the things that might incentivize other peoples behavior, like sanctions or even a contemp

let's bring in msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin, david jolly is back with us. pect to happen? >> we're going to expect the parties to go back and forth about their respective positions. alicia, you know that the special counsel's office has essentially said to judge chutkan that all discovery in this case should be covered by a protective order by default because donald trump is a person who can't be entrusted with sensitive information and he is likely to engage in the same sort of witness intimidation or even jury pool tampering that he has done in prior litigations. the trump folks for their part say this is overbroad, it interferes with the president's first amendment rights, but in particular one of the things that they wanted to cut out of the protective order should be a red flag for us. it's any witness statements, transcripts or materials shown to people outside that grand jury process, and trump wants to tweet about it and talk about it and name those witnesses. that should be of person to us because those are the kind of witnesses who are most likely

point lisa rubin, as always, on point. >> thank you. >> the republican front runner for the nominationour indictments, you probably heard a little bit about that. if that's something that gives you pause, you might actually be a republican primary voter. not the majority of them, but there's a lot of them. david plouffe and jen psaki and some are harboring poll numbers ahead. er ahead. and forms an antibacterial shield. try parodontax active gum health mouthwash. >> one year ago today, the inflation reduction act, the most significant piece of climate legislation in u.s. history, was signed into law. there's a case to be made it's one of the most significant and successful pieces of legislation ever passed. i mean, just look at the, name and look at what it did. and august of last year, when inflation reduction act was signed into law, inflation was 8.3%. one year later, inflation is about 3.2%. inflation was reduced. promises made, promises kept. now, i can hear you all you macro economics both out there yelling at your tv's, the i.r.a. was a clean infrastructure bill with some drug p

let's bring in msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin and with us former u.s. attorney harry litman and reporter for "the washington post," carol letting is here. judge chutkan issuing her protective order and i believe you've had a chance to look through it. what jumps out to you? >> the extreme solicitation for witnesses. she's making very clear that he can't be in any way intimidating or even demeaning them and she put everything that has to do with witnesses in the compartment of sensitive information. not just grand jury witnesses, and anyone that the government has interviewed. that is the first thing. and then the second thing is even as she gave a nugget to the trump defense team of not defining everything as sensitive materials, she took it away by making clear that anything that government was concerned about, in terms of both the jury pool and going after witnesses would violate the order anyway. so i think as you say, alisa, she has put them on notice and given a verdict that is i would say 60-40 for the government. >> at one point the judge seemed

former litigator and msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin, i'm certain we'll to you again soon. thank you for joining us this morning. these two federal cases is not the only legal trouble donald trump is facing. a judge in georgia has denied yet another attempt by the former president's legal team to stop fulton county district attorney fani willis' investigation into izalleged election interference in that state. this is the second ruling against the trump team in as many weeks as it tries to find a way to end the investigation before willis announces potential charges. a third petition to the court is scheduled for august 10th hearing. in the nine-page ruling the judge yesterday found neither the former president nor one of his allies also challenging the probe had the legal standing to quash the investigation. trump's lawyers argued that he would be hurt by an indictment. but in the ruling the judge seemed to disagree writing this, "for some being the subject of a criminal investigation can ala rumple stilt kn be turned into global political calple making it seem more provid

harry litman, luke broadwater, lisa rubin, thank you all for going through this all with us.reciate it. >>> up next on "the reidout" -- just two months after leading a mutiny against vladimir putin, the boss of the wagner group is listed as one of the passengers on a plane that crashed near moscow today. killing everyone on board. what a news day. "the reidout" continues after this. rsv can be a dangerous virus... [sneeze] ...for those 60 and older. it's not just a cold. and if you're 60 or older... ...you may be at increased risk of hospitalization... [coughing] ...from this highly... ...contagious virus. not all dangers come with warning labels. talk to your pharmacist or doctor... ...about getting vaccinated against rsv today. love you. have a good day, behave yourself. like she goes to work at three in the afternoon and sometimes gets off at midnight. she works a lot, a whole lot. we don't get to eat in the early morning. we just wait till we get to the school. so, yeah. right now here in america, millions of kids like victoria and andre live with hunger, and the need to

. >> ken dilanian, thank you very much, and joining me as promised, msnbc legal analyst, lisa rubin, he southern district of new york, kristy greenberg. thank you for being here. let's talk about this memo. lisa, i read it, i'm not a lawyer. don't have a law degree, and ken was talking about the covering language as he has in there. when i read it, it didn't scream this is illegal to me because there was so much of na. that. can you explain from a legal perspective what was out of lines? >> one of the things that jumps out to me is how kenneth which he has -- kenneth chesebro is telling saying one of the things this will accomplish is to buy additional time for pending litigation. we know on december 14th, the deadline to certify electors, there was no pending litigation, much less any litigation of any type until six minutes before that deadline in new mexico. new mexico is not among the states included here, and yet we know from paragraph 64 of the indictment, they eventually advanced the fake elector plot in new mexico as well. >> why is this memo being called the missing link for

joining us right now, lisa rubin. she's going to have a mic in a moment.

i want to bring in msnbc legal analyst, lisa rubin, a lot for us to unpack.h your reaction to the latest news from the governor saying no way to people who want to go after fani willis. >> chris, we've seen a reaction somewhat like this yesterday from house speaker john burns who also said that he believed that separation of powers meant that fani willis, who was dually elected should be left alone to do her job. the reason this is at all controversial of course is that the georgia legislature passed and governor kemp signed a new bill that would allow for the investigation and the removal of district attorneys perceived to not be doing their jobs. i think it's very helpful that brian kemp is pouring cold water on attempts by people within the georgia republican party and specifically, particular state legislatures to start to begin that process against fani willis. october 1 is the date on which you can begin investigations of district attorneys under that bill. brian kemp said this is not a situation i see as ripe for that kind of investigation. it doesn't

i should say, msnbc's lisa rubin says it's not jason miller or someone people were talking about, trumpicial mike roman because they're cited in the document by their other former official titles. so you have these unindicted coconspirators. by definition, the justice department through jack smith, who is a speedy and no nonsense pit bull of a prosecutor, thinks they have the goods to charge any one of these. ied you when the legal heat started hitting, including two who have been searched in ways we talked about, to underscore the heat has only been rising. will some of them be charged? all of them? would any of that increase the odds that they're more cooperative? we turn to someone who has led exactly these kind of probes, former sdny chief david kelly right after this. d kelly right after this (crashing sounds) everyone's gonna need more tide. it's a mess out there. that's why there's 85% more tide in every power pod. -see? -baby: ah. ♪ i have type 2 diabetes, ♪ ♪ but i manage it well. ♪ ♪ it's a little pill with a big story to tell. ♪ ♪ i take once-daily jardiance, ♪ ♪ at each day'

let's bring in msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin now. you flagged these new details yesterday.'s a lot of interesting stuff here, right? everything from them looking at direct messages to location data. i'm just wondering what stood out to you. >> the direct messages definitely stood out to me because trump has always been characterized to us as a person who doesn't text, he doesn't email. to the extent that his twitter account has direct messages in it, that begs the question, who's doing the messaging. that's where the location data and the device data comes into question. we know there are people other than trump himself who has access to this account. one of the things that's blocked out in the transcripts of arguments before judge beryl howell is the email address of the person that's the current contact for the account. we don't know who that person is. people might speculate it could be dan scavino who was in charge of trump's social media as an aide in the white house and continues to work with him. but one of the things i'm interested in seeing is did trump also send,

>>> joining me now, msnbc legal analyst, lisa rubin and joyce vance, ladies, thank you.king about if the doors stay open, what we could be waiting for, the witnesses that we've gone through, five out of the ten, and maybe the second set of witnesses might be the shorter ones, and not the lengthier interviews like we saw earlier. so i'm going to jump to the question of substance, what are you watching for in substance? >> well, obviously like lots of other folks, katy, i'm looking to see whether there's going to be a charge under georgia's racketeering statute, which is more expensive than its federal equivalent and imposes a mandatory minimum sentence of five years that goes up to 20 years. i'm also looking to see whether fani willis tries to bring charges of those same crimes, so a racketeering charge means that a group of people is engaged in a pattern of activity to commit crimes together, but you don't necessarily have to charge them independently with those crimes. in georgia, however, they might. and i'm looking to see whether anybody is charged with things ranging

we're going to go from there right msnbc legal analyst, lisa rubin. she was in the courtroom on friday for the protective order here in. joining me in studio, danny sub, all criminal trial attorney at nbc news, intimate specie legal analyst. thank you to both of you. ladies first. what do you make of this new report from cnn, that claims of george investigators have evidence of a breach in learning systems and the county involved a top down pushed by trump's team, now nbc news, we want to repeat, has not yet confirmed this, has not seen the text or emails, how do you interpret top down push? >> i think that's alex, what we're going to see is sort of the connective tissue that might be missing from this indictment. that is to say that there was an effort being made at the top. we see that in the federal indictment. a number of people associated with trump, in particular, his legal advisors, trying to execute a number of different overlapping conspiracies to turn the election for him. what we are going to see if we can confirm this, it's some of those s

. >> i want to bring in vaughn hillyard, lisa rubins, again keys fleming is a former d.a.n dekalb county. vaughn, we just learned that fani willis has asked for an october 23rd date for all 19 defendants. that is lightning quick by any standard. what more can you tell us? >> reporter: right, look, chris, the activit defendants are look different trial start dates. you have donald trump who has urged prosecutors and judges to not begin their trials until the conclusion of the 2024 election, but kenneth chesebro when he turned himself in yesterday, part of the urging from his defense team was to have a speedy trial. well, 24 hours later you have district attorney fani willis putting in a file and a motion to have the trial date start now in the end of october, just two months from now indirectly referenced the request from kenneth chesebro to have a speedy trial, and so in essence, you know, this is a district attorney who began this criminal investigation back in february of 2021. she's been working on this investigation and this case if ultimately she were to bring an indi

msnbc legal analyst, lisa rubin who's outside oth

. >> lisa rubin, you referenced yourself having a crazy idea, but you are only crazy ideas, our crazy smart ideas. lisa reuben, matt dowd, thank you both so much. next, extreme is in this country, what can be done about it? this horror in jacksonville, just one part of a very broad category in this country. and richard -- on the incredible life of former first lady roslyn carter. living through leading, changing, caregiving for an entire generation. stay with. us stay with. us suv when... crack! safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when they'd arrive with a replacement we could trust. that's service the way we want it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ i brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks! uuuhhhh... here, i'll take that! woohoo! ensure max protein, 30 grams of protein, 1 gram of sugar. enter the $10,000 powered by protein max challenge. ♪ ♪ white 80...! white 80...! hello patrick mahomes! hut...hut...? wait, who do you even play for? t-mobile! and i'm here to protect you from wi

msnbc legal analyst, lisa rubin who's outside of the courthouse, and the "atlanta journal-constitution" senior editor trump grand jury coverage shannon mccaffrey. i want to get to mark meadows and the jail, but lisa, i have to start with you, these dueling filings, talking about a trial date, october 23rd. d.a. fani willis and kenneth chesebro are in agreement, yeah, that's fine. does that mean we might see a trial with just him or him and a few others as soon as october? >> reporter: possibly, but in order for donald trump to get out from under that trial date, a judge is first going to have to decide that his case should be severed from the rest of them, and the standard for zef whether state court or federal court, that the prejudice to you in having to sit next to another defendant is so high that you can't get a full and fair trial sits next to them. the fact that trump would rather be on the campaign trail, for example, doesn't constitute that kind of prejudice, nor does the fact that he has other indictments going on simultaneously. it remains to be seen -- first of all, we have

. >> when i asked one of our other legal analyst, lisa rubin, what this indictment might look like, she described it as chapters. that instead of laying out one ruling, either a big narrative that will take this piece by piece, i wonder when you look at these text messages, in this separate lawsuit, if you have any sense of where they might factor in in those indictment chapters? >> you're talking about the text messages themselves? i think the coffee county narrative is, as you are the legal guests explained to you, sort of part of a number of overlapping conspiracies. we used to think about what happened after the 2020 election, as successive stories. and we know now, through the federal indictment, through the january six committee hearings and other evidence, that actually, there were a number of sort of overlapping conspiracies that meet, in sort of one big event diagram. i expect that's how the george indictment will look. there were no people working together, and separately, on different elements of the plot, with the overlying objective to grant the presidency to donald trump,

. >>> joining us now is lisa rubin.pective for us, walter, historically. four indictments over the past couple of months. now the president has so many indictments, the former president so many indictments that just one or two out of all of the 90 or so basically would amount to a life sentence. what are we going to go through as a country over the next year or two because of donald trump? >> you know, this is totally unprecedented. there's never been an indicted former president, and i think what's more important historically, this is really a test about democracy. if you look at what's underlying the narrative, there's a large group of people, 20%, 30%, including trump, who believe that democracy is not something that we should put on a pedestal and always try to preserve. that it's more important to figure out how to retain power or do whatever you need to do. i think there's been a reduction in the sense that democracy is the core of what america's all about. one interesting thing to me on this georgia case is that

i think we're probably looking at a potential spring trial date. >> lisa rubin, thank you.id on a home in utah where agents shot and killed a man who they say made disturbing threats against president biden and other officials. kelly o'donnell has the very latest. >> reporter: new details this morning about that fatal fbi shooting in utah. when the fbi came to arrest craig robertson for threatening to assassinate president biden, vice president harris and other officials, robertson was armed, a senior law enforcement official tells nbc news, and he pointed his weapon at federal agents and did not comply with their commands. this video recorded at the scene early wednesday. robertson was shot and killed inside an entry of his provo home. not far from where president biden was expected to arrive hours later. >> ultimately there was a threat posed to an agent, and an agent fired back. >> reporter: the 75-year-old woodworker displayed his cache of weapons and graphic talk about violence online. a law enforcement source says former president trump's social media platform truth s

attorney mimi roca and state attorney for palm beach, florida, dave aronberg, and political analyst lisa rubinr coming on. susan glasser, final word for you. what will you be looking for now in all these cases in the days to come? >> well, i think the idea that we have this incredible convergence between the campaign and the courtroom, already, we're looking at, you know, with 18 co-defendants of trump in georgia, they're all going to be filing motions. some of them will try to get themselves severed. trump will, as well. how much does it matter to republican voters at this point that donald trump's campaign essentially is simply to talk about his legal cases again and again and again? i think that's -- you know, is there any impact at all of the cumulative nature of having 91 counts against you? that's as much the key to this as the debate the other night, i think. >> susan, thank you so much for being on this morning. we'll be looking for your new piece online now for "the new yorker." >>> and still ahead on "morning joe," more unanswered questions about the presumed death of wagner mercenar