for the cia mind control project known as m.k. ultra the new book boys are in chief by former new york times foreign correspondent stephen kinzer sheds light on m.k. ultra and the man behind it sidney gottlieb he joins me now from cape cod in massachusetts stephen welcome to going underground before we even get to this amazing book your reaction to this 40000000000 dollar pentagon money appearing to go into the next coronavirus relief package apparently your country needs you have 35 bees of a genea class attack submarine whatever that is and some kind of directed energy weaponry to target china there seems to be no aspect of public policy including how care in the united states doesn't become somehow the property are ours and this is true that are being built for so called response to a coronavirus we suddenly find all these military programs the horrors that playbook talked about you know they were justified. this concept that everybody seemed to share in the united states that the world the freedom loving people everywhere made an im