maybe mark geragos can join this discussion for a moment. jodi arias, mark, as i reported is in a holding cell. at what point she -- i'm only going to assume at this point she is in the courtroom because we are so close to the time that the verdict is to be read. what have her two attorneys been saying to her in advance of this as jeffrey said very profound moment? >> i will tell -- i will echo what jeff just said. i've been in that situation, what seems like 50 or 60 times. you never -- you never get over it. it is the most gut wrenching kind of hopeless feeling in the world. no matter how you think the case went into the jury, you just never know what the jury is going to do and what you prepare the client for is, look. always a worst case scenario. you have to tell them no matter what happens you have to understand if this is a first degree, if we go to penalty phase you cannot react in any way or act out. you've got to just sit there and try to be as stoic as possible even though a lot of times people say she didn't or he didn't show emot

mark geragos, criminal defense attorney and author of "mistrial." we start with ted rowlands, who is in phoenix and in the courtroom and ashleigh banfield, who is in phoenix on location. explain the reaction of the jurors. i understand one juror actually mouthed "i'm sorry" to travis alexander's family. >> reporter: yeah. as the jury was leaving, two jurors were crying as the verdict was being read. one of them was an alternate, another female juror in the front row was on the panel. they were crying during the reading of this verdict, if you will, this nonverdict, and as the jury was leaving, a jury member said i'm sorry to travis alexander's family. there was another juror i saw from my vantage point that looked over at jodi arias and seemed to be trying to communicate with jodi arias on some level, and arias at that point moved where she was, moved to the end of her table and stared intently as the jury left the courtroom. clearly, we got an indication of this just three hours into deliberation, there was a divide in this jury. they came back les

drew pinski and mark geragos, defense attorney.etective, you have been on this case for 11 years now. i understand new details keep coming in. just yesterday, you saw a young woman and her father who came to see you. what did they tell you? who were they? >> they walked into my office and they didn't have an appointment but they told my secretary that her name is chelsea lee ann smith and i would want to talk to her. when i brought her back to my office, she explained to me that she's been receiving collection notices for unpaid bills down in pensacola in her name off her personal information, and she explained to me that she believes that brenda heist was able to get her information due to the fact that brenda, before she left, worked with chelsea's mother susan smith, and she feels that brenda was able to obtain her information before she left without her knowledge. >> we just spoke, detective, to a woman that brenda lived with in pensacola who she also worked for, cleaned her apartment, took care of her kids sometimes. she paint

want to bring in mark geragos, criminal defense attorney. rk, from your perspective, wendy murphy was weighing in as a former prosecutor, what she would do here. what would you be pushing for as the defense right now for jodi arias? >> obviously the defense wants to cut a deal to save her life. that's pretty much the whole reason or strategy behind the defense in this case in the first place. i don't think it's a surprise, although i don't know and i don't know if it's been reported what the split was. does anybody know what the split was? >> we do not know yet but obviously we know the jury's allowed to talk about it, but we can't confirm yet, mark. >> it's very unusual because in california, one of the things they would have done, we have a very similar system although there's some differences, they would have polled the jury after they had declared the mistrial and told you what the split was, then you would have asked afterwards the jurors themselves. i think that that is going to be the single most important factor in the prosecutor's de

joining me is criminal defense attorney and author of the new book, mistrial, mark geragos. u here. >> it's great to be here. >> mike: you understand and everyone gets it that a person is entitled to representation. how much? most people geti a public defender. this guy has already got four attorneys. whyli does he get four lawyers? >> i think the thinking is in a case like this that the prosecution has unlimited resources in terms of what they bring to bear, and so if you're ever going to get this case to trial and do it in a swift fashion, you need to have at least four lawyers to get up to speed, to deal with just the phenomenal amount of discovery that they're going to have to deal with. i mean, if you had just one public defender on this case, he would be screaming to this judge, to the federal district court judge i can't get my arms around it, i don't have u enough time, i don't have enough resources. then you're going to build in an appeal at some point if that's the case. >> mike: you do understand that a lot of people in the public are saying look, if this were just

and also mark geragos. let's start with cnn's ted rollins and what was it like? >> it was an incredibly emotional scene inside the courtroom. two of the female jurors were crying as the verdict was read by the court clerk. the judge got emotional, got a little emotional as well while she was addressing the jury. and the alexander family as you might imagine was very emotional. the sisters were openly weeping in court. as the jury was walking out one of the female members of the jury looked over into the gallery and seemed to be trying to communicate with the alexander family. there are reports that she said, i'm sorry from my vantage point. i couldn't tell what she was saying. once the jury left the courtroom then the entire family continued to sob openly in court. >> what happens to arias now? until this penalty phase starts in mid july. >> she'll -- tonight, she is back at the maricopa county jail here in phoenix and she is waiting along with everybody else to hear whether or not the district attorney's office -- they'll try to impanel another jury to try again

joining me now, mark geragos who is co author of mistrial. also, former l.a. deputy district attorney marcia clark mark, your reaction to this verdict, you've been saying all along the defense was focused on making sure jodi arias isn't given the death penalty. what happens now? >> i think all they were doing all along, was trying to get the jury to not give her death. and this is not unexpected. in fact, it's interesting. they had on the verdict form the ability to say premeditation, felony murder, or felony murder and premeditation. and they split 7 to 5 on that. i think they're leaning right now toward not giving her death. but frankly, i understand what she's saying. i mean, if you're in her position, you'd rather have death. you -- what's the point of getting life without -- you don't get any of the appeals. it makes sense to me, but ultimately, i think the verdict was completely expected. >> mark, some are saying she was using reverse psychology, she really wants life in prison. they're going to give her what they think she doesn't want? >> yeah, well, yo

. >> reporter: famed trial attorney mark geragos watched simpson's long-awaited testimony today. >> i think so far today he looks a heck of a lot better than he did during the civil trial. today at least so far he's come off as fairly credible. >> years ago, there was concern that putting simpson on the stand could open him up to uncomfortable questions abhis past, but attorneys said the judge this week wouldn't allow it. >> i know people don't like to hear this, this case and this sentence, i think, are obvious payback for the acquittal in the case in l.a. >> today, simpson's life includes reading golf magazines and watching tv inside a 6 by 10 foot cell where he has a cell mate and uses the bottom bunk. >> you think he looks beat? >> a beaten man. the system beat him to death. >> his close friend says simpson is aging rapidly in his new life. >> what's his life in prison? >> his life is basically, he's working at the gym. he's in charge of the gym. he coached the baseball team. >> reporter: his testimony won't answer any of the old questions. it's just a las ditch attempt at freedom

it seems hard to understand how these girls were not found sooner. >> mark geragos, would you agree withhat? >> yeah, absolutely. i think that the jaycee dugard investigation revealed all kinds of missed opportunities. i think lisa is being charitable when she talks about it. it was almost like a keystone kops situation. here, you take a look at that neighborhood, this is a densely populated, houses sitting on top of one another. it's hard to believe that somebody could be there for a decade and as lisa says, screaming, if that's the case, and nobody does any kind of further investigation, especially given this kind of neighborhood, where apparently these guys are coming and going as well. the whole thing, there's got to be much more to this story, given my experience in handling criminal cases. i can't believe that we're not going to find in the days ahead or the weeks ahead much more that unravels about this that blows your mind. >> ernie allen, in terms of the psychology of all this, quite unusual, i would think, but you can tell me this, that the chief suspect here, ariel castro, who

mark geragos is a criminal defense attorney. o the co-author of the book "mistrial" and paul henderson is a veteran prosecutor. mark, i'll start with you. want to play something else that the jury foreman said to abc. listen to this. >> i'm -- i'm very sure in my own mind that she was mentally and verbally abused. now, is that an excuse? of course not. does it factor into decisions that we make? it has to. >> mark, your reaction to that. >> it's exactly what i expected and i think exactly why, in spite of the fact that i think in that same interview, he stated that, you know, she was her own worst witness, i'm telling you, the fact that she was on there for these 17, 18, whatever number of days, that was -- that created a familiarity. that breeds contempt usually, but at the same time, obviously it resonated with four people and it resonated, you know, loudly enough that they were not going to impose the death penalty. this whole case frankly points out i think just the ridiculous nature of the death penalty in america and why so

i want to bring in mark geragos and wendy murphy. , let me start with you, on the sound bite we just played of jodi arias saying she would prefer death to life. if the jury thinks she wants death they'll give her life. >> i'll tell you the truth, i think this is the first time you can say she's absolutely telling the truth. i've been in this situation with clients, there is no question that given the choice, whether going through this period, do you want to be life without or death? you want death. and the reasonable for that is, you get infinitely better treatment if you are sentenced to death. you get infinitely better resources if you're sentenced to death. this is precisely why death penalty machinery -- >> why is that? >> you get quicker appeals? >> that's why the apparatus is broken. if you are sentenced to death, you are sequestered, you get all kinds of resources, and you get appellate review that goes on ad infinitum. and remember who the sheriff is in this county. >> joe arpaio. >> yeah, famous or infamous in my standpoint a

mark geragos joins me now, criminal defense attorney. former fbi counter-terrorism expert. great to have both of you with us. mark, obviously this is significant development f catherine russell spoke to her husband after the pictures here on national television which we're reporting she did and she did not call law enforcement and say i recognize that man. i know who he is, how damming is that? >> not very. not damming at all. she's got a spousal privilege. she can assert it. i agree with. that the fact she has a 3-year-old child, the fact she has a shoplifting charge, she's a great risk, believe it or not. somebody can go in and revoke her bail or her o.r. status -- her own recognizance status on that, and they could threaten to take away her child, by calling child protective services. those kinds of things i guarantee you are being floated and told to her. whatever lawyer she's got, i understand she's got a good one, is going to say, look, she's got absolutely no obligation to go nark out or tattle on her husband. maybe from a moral standpoint she would have wanted to do

joining us again is cnn senior legal analyst, jeffrey toobin, also criminal defense attorney mark geragos-author of mistrial, an inside look at how the justice system works and sometimes doesn't. obviously very emotional testimony today. how does this play out? >> i think it's actually more significant than usual, because of what you mentioned. the defense in this case was built around demonizing travis, saying all sorts of terrible things, that he was an abuser, even a pedophile, which by the way was never established but jodi accused him of it. and to see him in such a different light i think will be very effective for the prosecution. >> you think these impact statements actually can have an effect? >> yes, i think sometimes jurors might discount it but here i think it might matter more than usual. >> mark, the defense announcing today that arias is in fact going to take the stand again to deliver a statement, not just a statement, she will also be showing her artwork. i mean, we've seen more of jodi arias than probably any other defendant in modern times or recent memory, certainly. w

i want to bring in criminal defense attorney mark geragos and wendy murphy to take a look at what exactly happened in this case. you know, taking the stand for 18 days, i guess the big question is, mark, was this a mistake, the length of time or perhaps even putting her on the stabbed to begin with? >> not at all. look, the idea of comparing this case to casey anthony is ludicrous, frankly. i mean i don't -- i understand the people expected that oh, my god it could have been a not guilty. there was never any expectation by anybody who was sane or had any connection with the criminal justice system that this was going to be a not guilty. this was an overwhelming prosecution case. what the defense was doing was trying to save her life and i still think that ultimately maybe putting her on the stand may save her life. remember, there was still a split today on that jury question on the verdict which was five votes for the premeditation, seven votes for premeditation and felony murder. there is a split there. the fact that, you know, usually familiarity breeds contempt n this case, they may n

while the questions seem pro-prosecution, attorney mark geragos says one word. >> jodi. >> jodi. >> jodiorter: the fact that they used jodi as opposed to her last name or the moniker, defendant, indicates that there is a familiarity there and it will make it tougher for them, i think, and maybe it gives some indication to give her the death penalty. >> reporter: so 13 hours and counting now for these deliberations. the jurors, the eight men and four women will be back in the courthouse behind me in a couple of hours to begin day four. lara, this is a very tense time for both sides as there is nothing anybody can do but wait. >> no kidding. ryan owens, we thank you so much. >>> coming up here, the nba cheerleader criticized for her weight speaking out in an exclusive interview. what she wants everybody to know about her body and then josh's "play of the day." ♪ who'll rule the world girls on a red carpet. ♪ but she's the star of my life. [ female announcer ] kay jewelers presents a new collection from hollywood's premier jewelry designer neil lane designs. my designs are inspired by holly

long time simpson observer mark geragos says simpson's charisma isn't the key because there's no jury this time, just a judge to impress. >> the judge is not going to care a whole lot whether he's joking or smiling. she's going to care about his demeanor when he's testifying. >> did you ever ask mcclinton or alexander to bring any weapons. >> no, not at all, never came up. >> reporter: simpson says he never was told of the early discussions of a plea deal between his lawyer and the prosecutors, a deal that could have meant a lot less prison time. >> do you recall any plea offer being given to you during the trial? >> no. >> reporter: simpson's new lawyers say they are confident that this time he actually helped himself. >> it was his story that he got to tell and i think he did really, really well. >> reporter: the hearing will have a short day today and then testimony expected friday from yale galanter, the attorney that simpson blames for his conviction. he will likely have a very different take on the events. >> many can't wait to hear what he has to say, yes, there's no jury, but