the legal team for mark meadows was in a federal appellate court in atlanta making arguments that raiserthrow the results of the georgia election. fulton county prosecutors charged meadows with allegedly scheming and plotting as part of a wide ranging criminal conspiracy to overturn the election. meadows' lawyers want the charges removed from state court to federal court, where they will argue the charges should be dismissed entirely on the ground the alleged misconduct was merely part of meadows' official duties as white house chief of staff. a federal district court already rejected this argument but now meadows is appealing. here's his lawyer in court today. >> we are here in this federal cer removal case because the state urged and the district court adopted, in a rather unprecedented, unorthodox, and unworkable means, to answer the question that arises in all such removal cases of, what is the state prosecution for? >> remember, meadows is charged with two counts in georgia. the first being the rico charge. the second being sliflgs of violation of oath by a public officer. that sec

the breaking news from georgia, a federal appeals court is now considering wheth case against mark meadows should be transferred from state court to federal court. meadows argues he was acting as then president donald trump's chief of staff, when the alleged criminal conduct occurred. but a federal judge ruled in september that meadows was ng on behalf of the trump campaign and not the federal government. meadows is one of 19 people, including the former president, who were charged with conspireing to overturn the 20 presidential election in georgia, four have pled guilty and are cooperating so far with prosecutors. four others, co-defendants, have also sought to remove their cases from state court to federal court. so far, their efforts have also been denied. want to bring in nbc news correspondent blayne alexander, and katie phang, host of the katie phang show and msnbc legal contributor. welcome. thank you for joining us on this. i know you've been inside the courtroom all morning. walk us through it, what have you been seeing? >> reporter: oral arguments were very brief, only 15 minute

writing on the wall here that they are very skeptical that removal is going to be an option for mark meadows. >> when, these conversations, these arguments take place in court, but let's centered back into the practical realities of why these are even taking place. there is still a pending indictment, right, in fulton county? meadows is one of 15 remaining codefendants that have yet to take a plea in the d a fani willis r. i. c. o. case. how does what happens from here affect the timing of that fulton county prosecution? >> well, right now, that prosecution is proceeding. it has not been staged, you've seen several defendants take place, particularly those that filed for speedy trial demands and several others. so, that case will continue to go forward. the reason that this argument is important is because mr. meadows was hoping to be able to remove his court and not have to appear or proceed in the state court proceedings. because we are looking at the calendar that is very concise when you think about some of the election activity that will happen later in 2024, i think this bench recogniz

mark meadows.me tonight, cnn senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor elie honig, and to georgia officials who testified before the fulton county grand jury. former state senator -- former lieutenant governor jeff duncan. elie, let me start with you. it seems like the very clear message that we're getting is overturning the election is not part of anyone's official duties. >> breaking news. what's so -- we're seeing the law develop. we knew a lot of folks, including donald trump, we're gonna make just this argument. -- i'm entitled to be tried in federal court, and the next step, which is a half-start removed from that, therefore, my case should be dismissed on community grounds. we didn't know how it was gonna come up. you've seen mark meadows today, donald trump in other contexts, about a half dozen folks in awe, make those arguments, and they've been uniformly rejected. they are batting point 000. those rejections have come from state judges, federal judges, and conservative judges, fo

. >>> when we're back in 60 seconds, mark meadows fails to move his case to federal court. will this dial up the pressure on him to cooperate? >>> and the new trouble for rudy giuliani, from the same election workers who won millions in their defamation case against him. >>> also, white hot bubbling pools of lava in iceland. the dramatic eruption more powerful than three previous ones in this area. >>> and more than 100 dead from a earthquake in china. how rescue efforts could be complicated due to the terrain and temperature. orts could be complicated due to the terrain and temperature. [sfx: video game] emergen-c crystals. whenever you're hungry, there's a deal on the subway app. buy one footlong, get one 50% off in the subway app today. now that's a deal worth celebrating. man, what are you doing?! get it before it's gone on the subway app. ♪♪ he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.

also, a reminder as you look at the scope of this and what it means for mark meadows going to potentially have this case happen in the state of georgia at the heart of it is that infamous call where meadows was on with trump, pressuring the secretary of state there to, quote, find him more votes. >> mr. secretary, one -- obviously, there is -- there are allegations where we believe that not every vote or fair vote and legal vote was counted. that's at odds with the representation from the secretary of state's office. what i'm hopeful for is there is some way we can find some kind of an agreement to look at this a little bit more fully. >> of course, that is the call that is at the center of this, but remember who set up that call. it was the man you were hearing from there, mark meadows. joining me tonight, cnn senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor elie honig and two georgia officials who testified before the fulton county grand jury, former state senator jen jurden and former lieutenant governor geoff duncan. let me start with you, because it seems like the very clear messag

mark meadows is in trouble.uspect he will try to deal in georgia if they'll take it. >> andrew, to that point really quickly, can he if the georgia -- the georgia prosecutors have said they're not interested in dealing with -- making a deal with mark meadows. is that true or sort of what they have to say? >> you know, i don't know the answer to that but, you know, if he has really key evidence, it is hard to think that they'll say under no circumstances will we listen to you. but to david's point about what mark meadows may do in georgia, i think people should remember whatever happens to donald trump if he were to be elected, that does not protect mark meadows from that state criminal case that he is facing. there is no stay. there is no immunity. there is no federal pardon that can help mark meadows in connection with the state criminal case that he is now confronting. in fact, he and the other people who are charged are going to be holding the bag even if donald trump becomes president and manages to get -- a

there would not be cameras in court and that's likely something that would be appealing to mark meadowsell. >> after meadows' initial attempt was reject instead september, donald trump's attorney said he would not even try to get his case moved, but i mean, i would imagine that could change depending on what this appeals court decides, right? they could still do that, try that if they want. >> actually, probably not. >> no? >> the statute -- the statute -- the removal statute requires that the moving party that wants to move to federal court has to bring that motion within a very short period of time, i believe it's 30 days, and i think that time has passed for the former president to bring that motion. now, he could still end up in federal court if mark meadows is successful in moving to federal court, there is a line of reasoning that the entire georgia case would move to federal court, but that -- even that is not clear, and it is possible that donald trump decided not to bring the removal motion because he was worried that then he might feel compelled to actually testify at the hear

and two so cavalierly treat this i think cassidy hutchison said that mark meadows at some point yelledher saying why is that in the safe? why don't you just keep it in your desk? and she responded, mark, this belongs in the scif. that sort of behavior is absolutely problematic. and alex, last thing, it's much as problematic because of the past damage it might have cost. every single one of our allies, every nation around the world is watching this as well. they are trying to determine if donald trump is elected to united states, what, if anything, are they going to choose to share with the united states? so this is damaging to national security, to the u.s., not just in the past but going forward for a long time. >> absolutely. such a great point. i do wonder what the potential penalty is for anyone involved in the disappearance of this binder. the last person seen with it is mark meadows. and cassidy hutchison offered i would say called comfort. this is quoting from her book. i believe this is quoting from her testimony to the january six committee. i just know mr. meadows. he wouldn'

that's what happened today with respect to mark meadows. why do i say closing ranks? one of the things that the judge here did, the judge who wrote this is an extremely conservative judge. chief judge prior, very well respected. he is completely in line with a recent d.c. circuit decision making exactly the same point, decided by what was made by a liberal judge. and judge prior goes out of his way to cite approvingly who? the district judge in d.c. judge chutkan. you have a sense of a uniformity of views regardless of who appointed the person, regardless of their political persuasion, that they aren't tolerating the idea that either there will be presidential immunity, there will be executive privilege, but they are rejecting this idea that you are running a campaign, you somehow have a cloak of white house immunity and i'm premature that's going to protect you. so they denied mark meadows claim here but in language that bodes very, very poorly for the claims by donald trump that he's gonna be making in d.c. and he's trying to make in this court as well. >> you have

cassidy hutchinson who was at the time a top aide to mark meadows testified to congress and wrote in memoir that meadows had kept the unredacted version of the binder in his safe. and that she thought she saw him leave the white house with it. which meadows' lawyer denies. but even so, what this reporting describes is yet another example from the trump white house where some of our nation's highly classified security secrets were handled with such little care. joining me is javit ali, senior director at the national security council. thank you for being here. it is a who done it, but if cassidy hutchinson who is the most credible witness and the star witness in january 6th says that she saw mark meadows with it, he denies it, but she also wrote in her book, which i'm assuming means she's committed to that fact, if you're a prosecutor, and you have already got mark meadows looking at charges in georgia, isn't he the first stop that you take to knock on his door to say, do you have anything to do with this? >> well, joy, nice to be with you again. just when you thought this classified

she was positive it went home with mark meadows.teresting figure in all of this, everyone trying to figure out how much he is cooperating with jack smith, what he knew during the january 6th coup, attempted coup, of the u.s. capitol. what we know about this binder is what we found during the january six investigation which was a big concern our national security. one of our last hearings we had matt pottinger, the former deputy national security adviser under donald trump. he detailed how concerned he was during this time between january 6th and january 20th. we didn't really know what was gonna happen with our national security. donald trump was trying to call back documents like this, this information about the 2016 russian plot to help donald trump win the election. donald trump was trying to declassify it on january 19th this blunder was going in and out of the white house. donald trump wanted to get that information out and into the hands of the right-wing media. why this is relevant and why it is still concerning why we don't

this is not an end at the road for this man, in terms of mark meadows. i would not hear, that this case feels to me, it represents sometimes like the law and common sense are a. i.. that is what this feels like to me. one of the trial court found in this case is that mark meadows official job duties as chief of staff did not cover his actions as led to the indictment. the other thing that the trial found is that his actions were beyond executive authority, so, what we have here, if you step back and look at the big picture, there is a way to challenge elections in our country, whether you do it through the court system. they tried to. the trump campaign tried to, 60 plus times, in georgia and across the country. and they lost 60 plus times. it's one that should have been the end of it. it wasn't. we had this man ignored the facts, working around the law, and now, he's on the cusp of accountability. it's good to see it coming, commit to pass, hopefully. >> greg, there are other georgia codefendants, right? i would assume that they are watching what meadow

talked about mark meadows. we'll talk to the expert panel about mark meadows and whether he is going to be able to continue delaying, i guess to avoid the trial and avoid jail time. we'll talk more about that when we get back. ack. ated. visit bombas.com and get 20% off your first order. he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ i think i'm ready for this. only pay for what you need. heck ya! with e*trade you're ready for anything. marriage. kids. college. kids moving back in after college. ♪ finally we can eat. ♪ you know you make me wanna...♪ and then we looked around and said, wait a minute, this isn't even our stroller! (laughing) you live with your parents, but you own a house in the metaverse? mhm. cool...i don't get it. here's to getting financially ready for anything! and here's to being single and ready to mingle.

so a previous attempt by mark meadows to move the case to federal court failed. what we hear in court today might change that? >> well andrea today's hearing was pretty short. each side only got 15 minutes but interesting was today's hearing anyway harken back to that. we heard several times mark meadows testimony that everything he did so under the scope of his actions as a federal officer. we heard that brought back up today. one question is does that argument apply a former hetero officer which of course is what mark meadows currently is so that was another thing at the center of the hearing we do know the judges could take several weeks before they come back with a decision. keep in mind that there is a timeline of course watching that with a parallel timeline of what's happening in fulton county. the district attorney funny willis made it clear she wants to try this case in august and have all of the remaining defendant tried together -- if the judges here decide to reject that argument again mark meadows is well within his rights to appeal that decision pos

the opinion written by republican appointee, chief judge william pryor rejected the notion, that mark meadows alleged crimes helping donald trump in georgia fell in the scope within his official do dings writing quote writing quote, we cannot rubberstamp meadows legal opinion that the presidents chief of staff has unfettered authority. neither the constitution, nor any federal statute, nor any president permits the presidents chief of staff to oversee, disrupt or change the state result of presidential elections and quote. pretty powerful words, to missing this idea of unfettered authority that might so that donald trump is making to the excuses actions leading up to the axis of january the 6th. and all this, timely giuliani is being sued again today by georgia election workers ruby freeman and shaye moss who are asking a federal judge for an injunction to permanently stop rudy giuliani from lying about them, which he continued to do even after a jury found that he must pay those election workers 100 and $48 million in damages. the courts so far have spoken clearly about the unprecedented ass

following all of the latest developments, but we start in georgia where an appeals court heard mark meadows' arguments just a couple of hours ago. msnbc anchor, and legal contributor, katy f.a.a.n.g. is with me. meadows tried to move his case to federal court before and was shut down. any reason to think he'll be successful this time? >> he made a run at plea appellate court judges to convince them the trial court got it wrong. he think the potential jury pool could be better for him if he's in federal court. he also thinks that maybe there would be some federal judges that might be a little bit more sympathetic to some of the federal ds hwould raise. take a quick listen to an ex thahappened between one of the three judges and mark meadows' lawyer. >> for purposes of removal he doesn't have to establish the ter limits of his office. he merely has to establish a nexus to his duties and is uncontradicted -- >> the problem here is that he wasn't able to, according to him it seems like everything was within his official duties, and that just cannot be right. >> and, chris, that is the biggest i

let's start with mark meadows.are into this, william pryor, chief general to william pryor what some people call it conservative judge on the 11th circuit wrote this opinion where all three judges agreed that mark meadows is not going to get removal right now. >> i do not think this is quite the holiday gift, katie, that mark meadows was hoping for. it was to put him mildly total body slam as you see this opinion was written by chief judge prior, who is not just something some people call conservative, he's a legendary conservative jurist, extremely conservative. and, he had none of it with respect to meadows arguments. basically to summarize what this long opinion says, he does not just prior, look, if you are the white house chief of staff, launching a coup is not in your job description. that is the opinion plain and simple. >> so, i am going to lean into you as our resident supreme court guru. do you think scotus is going to take this up? you and i both know meadow as -- >> he can certainly try, i don't get any

a federal appeals court rejected former white house chief of staff mark meadow's bid to try to move hisction interference case from state court to federal court. the opinion of the 11th circuit undercuts meadow's claim husband alleged actions were connected to his official duties in the trump white house. whatever the chief of staff's role with respect to state election administration, that role does not include altering valid election results in favor of a particular candidate. >> this comes as we learn that rudy giuliani is getting sued again by shaye moss and ruby freeman. the two former georgia election workers who just won 150 million defamation against giuliani. the women are asking a judge to permanently prohibit giuliani from making statements against them. >> very big setback for mark meadows. not surprised. it turns out that tieing to interfere with an election is not part of anyone's federal job description. mark meadows is not alone in making this argument. we have now seen about half dozen or so people, including donald trump, in various context try to argue that, well, wha

he suggested in an interview about a book that his former chief of staff mark meadows had the binder. he said, i would let you look at them if you wanted. it's a treasure-trove. and this is what cassidy hutchinson writes in her book. >> i watched him climb into the limo. noticing the original crossfire hurricane binder tucked under his arm. i did not have time to ask what he planned to do with it. what the hell is mark doing with the cross-fire hurricane binder? >> evan perez was part of the team that broke this reporting. and, evan, from what you're saying, the binder was last seen at the white house in trump's final days in office. the president had ordered it brought there so he could declassify documents related to the fbi russia investigation. it's a binder that wasn't in any normal situation was supposed to leave cia headquarters. so what more can you tell us about the actual binder itself? >> we know, erin, that this was some of the most sensitive intelligence material that the united states has, right? this is material that is related to sources and methods. it's information t

mark meadows and others were going through it. and the purpose was to try to declassify it and release it. they obviously in the end ran out of time. they were not able to release that information before they did. but we don't know what happened to it after that. so, one of -- there's a lot of theories. and one of them came from cassidy hutchinson, who wrote about this in her book. listen to what she had to say. >> i watched him climb into the limo, noticing the original crossfire hurricane binder tucked under his arm. i did not have time to ask what he planned to do with it as he drove away. what the hell is mark doing with the unredacted crossfire hurricane binder? >> and anderson, we know, again, that mark meadows did manage to turn over some documents to the justice department at the end of the administration, in the closing minutes just before joe biden was inaugurated. we don't know what happened with the binder, however, with these unredacted documents. >> so, mark meadows hasn't said what he'd do with it. >> we reached out

mark meadows attorney strongly denies this. he said in a statement to us that mr. s was keenly aware and adhered to requirements to the proper handling of classified material. any such material he handled or was in possession of has been treated accordingly. and he suggested that he is responsible for any missing binder or other classified information is flat wrong. so look, at this point, this is a mystery about this binder. it still remains a mystery. >> reporter: it certainly does. wow. what a fascinating reporting. i know you and your team took a long time to pull this all together. the mystery continues, doesn't it? thank you so much, nevin. >>> i'm going to go to bradley now. bradley moss, right up until the end there is a mad dash to get details from this binder released. bradley, why would donald trump want this out there so badly? even as he is landing in mar-a-lago, and joe biden is getting inaugurated? >> well, even teed it up there, we've heard all this reporting coming out about the final days, the final hours of trump administration. they were planning

look at mark meadows. nobody knows where he is. he has to cooperate with the feds and this is a guy who sold himself out. look at kevin mccarthy. kevin mccarthy sold himself out to win the approval of donald trump. and ends up the shortest tenure for speaker. still begging to serve in his cabinet. like at some point, americans have to wake up and say we either can be a country that accepts this and we will never be a great country again if we do, or we can go back to our principles of realizing that humanity matters, people matter. and we have to have goodness in our soul. you don't see that in these folks. it just makes me sad. >> sad and a lot of other emotions. adam, thank you. >> you bet. >>> and as the congressman said, rudy giuliani went from being america's top mayor. even a candidate for president at one point. to what we see today. a long time friend of his on his spectacular spiral will join me next. also tonight, this story, the idf is now admitting it mistakenly shot and killed three israeli hostages and is a tragic mix

so now we expect obviously that mark meadows is probably going to keep fighting. he's probably going to go to the supreme court and try his hand there. >> so jessica, given the court determined meadows' involvement was not part of his official duties raises the question. could that impact similar claims by the president? >> yes. so even though the former president is not directly impacted by this decision from the 11th circuit today, the reasoning in the decision does not bode well for trump's claims of immunity. of course, no board has held there's such a thing as immunity for a former president from criminal prosecution. cases are only talking so far from the supreme court about immunity from civil lawsuits. but if the former president were to prevail on his claim, his argument, which is novel, that there is such a thing as immunity from criminal prosecution, then a court would have to decide what is the extent of it and in the civil context, it extends to the outer perimeter of the president's official duties. so tfollowing the reason from te 11th circuit today,

what does that mean for mark meadows in all of this? >> cassidy hutchinson has proven herself to be a very credible witness in all things trump. mark meadows has proven himself to not be credible in all things trump. but you know, it's really -- it's the job of the fbi and i'll respect, you know, their ability and mandate to track down these materials and update congress as to where they are. >> and i did want to ask you about this republican impeachment inquiry into president biden. i understand you told "politico" that you reserved the space outside the capitol for hunter biden, the president's son, to deliver his rebuke to republicans. what compelled you to step in? what's your sense of how hunter biden handled all of that, and where is this inquiry headed? >> yeah, james comer wanted hunter biden to testify publicly. multiple times he said he can come publicly or privately. and when hunter said okay, i don't trust you guys to be in private, i'll do it publicly. then comer shifted his position. and so hunter came to our press confere

the situation room. >>> a federal appeals court rejects former trump white house chief of staff mark meadows to move his georgia election interference case from state to federal court. evan perez is following the story for us. how did the judge's view of meadows' arguments? >> this is an important ruling from this conservative-leaning appeals court and they rejected the idea that what mark meadows was doing, what he's charged with, what he's accused of in this georgia case, that it's related to his official duties. what they say here who is written by a conservative appointee on this court, he says, whatever the chief of staff's role with respect to state election administration, that role does include altering ballot election results in favor of a particular candidate. he goes on to say is that electioneering is not part of the job of a chief of staff. what mark meadows is trying to do is move this case to federal court essentially trying to find a way to kill this case. if it had been moved to federal court, it would mean that he would be immune essentially from being prosecuted for what h

really wanted mark meadows's attorney to draw a distinction. just because you are chief of staff doesn't mean that what you're doing falls under your official duties. take a listen to this one exchange between meadows's lawyer and one of the judges on the panel. actually pushing him on this point. >> what the prosecution here is for, by the record in this case, and by the over acts lifted in the indictment, are acts taken in the west wing of the white house by the highest appointed white house official -- >> according to him it seems like everything was within his official duties. that just, cannot be right. a we heard more of the same from the other two judges on the panel. the panel was not without concern, either, or about moving this case, or keeping this case in the georgia state court. they said that it could cause a chilling effect for future federal officials who maybe want to join or who want to run for office but may be deterred for doing so because of the potential for getting charged with state crimes. we are waiting to see what the

now, we should say that mark meadows' attorney strongly denies this. aid in a statement, quote, mr. meadows was keenly aware of and adhered to requirements for the proper handling of classified material and any such material that he handled or was in his possession has been treated accordingly and any suggestion that he is responsible for any missing binder or other classified information is flat wrong. we also reached out to officials at the cia, the office of the director of national intelligence -- multiple requests for comment which is all to say, kate, that the mystery of this missing binder remains just that, a mystery. >> absolutely. great reporting, though, katie bo. you and the team. thank you so much. john? >>> all right. on the subject of mark meadows, happening now, attorneys for the former white house chief of staff are in court in georgia as he fights to move his election interference charges from state to federal court. this is an appeal right now. his lawyers argue that the charges belong in federal court because they were part of his jo

as you know, mark meadows lawyer is the nine he has it.not turned up at the search of mar-a-lago, according to law enforcement officials begin to cnn. raw intelligence that the allies connected on russians and russian agents. what kind of damage could documents like these do to u.s. national.? >> there is a reason why we take sources and methods and put them in what is called compartments where they have a very limited number of people allowed to know how intelligence was collected in the first place. that is what we call the ground use of the intelligence committee. the way this information was handled strongly suggests exactly that. i would was obtained, that is the type of information that can get people killed if it is released publicly. the names use, electronic means of surveillance that might have been exploited, other sets of capabilities that the intelligence committee. again, people risking their lives to pain. that is a federal crime for a reason. and not only can put those sources at risk, it can put ongoing operations ran by t

there is a theory that perhaps mark meadows had it or has it at his safe in his house. that may be one reason we don't know skpanltly where it is. is there a closet down the hall or we might find this and other information. at that point we don't know. the idea that we don't know where this incredibly sense tev information is chilling and certainly has a significant impact on national security on a number of different levels. >> what do you make of the fact that mark meadows could have taken it home or that putin may have his hands on. >> it because we don't know where the information is, it's kind of speculative. again, the idea we don't know precisely with it is, especially if it's raw intelligence, which points to a lot of sources and method oddgy troom is not the way authenticet should work. we just don't know. that's the worst part of it. >> beyond those sources and methods, what else qualifies or constitute s raw intelligence? >> we could get into the weeds with this a little bit. u think the best way to understand it for viewers is raw intelligence as opposed to

why don't you address this decision on mark meadows yakym -- mark meadows? >> mark meadows white house chief of staff, he was indicted on the current state court by fani willis. he filed a motion to remove to federal court, a particular statute, called the federal officer jurisdiction removal statute. he said look. all the actions i took here as an official were all under official acts, they fit within the scope of my authority and duties as chief of staff. that was rejected unanimously in an opinion written by bill prior . it was joined by ryan rosenbaum. rosenbaum is an obama appointee. meadows lost on two grounds. one, the statute does not apply to former federal officials, only to current federal officials. the second reason, he said even if it applied to current federal officials, the actions you took contacting the secretary of state, contacting state legislators, urging them to hold special sessions, that was campaign activity for donald trump. arguably you were violating the hatch act. it does not fit within the duties of the white house chief of sta

we begin with that breaking news out of georgia where former white house chief of staff mark meadows is trying again this morning to move his case there in fulton county from state court to federal court. a three-judge panel on the 11th circuit court of appeals just hearing oral arguments, meadow s is one of 19 co-defendants originally charged in that sprawling election interference case involving former president trump. he's trying to invoke a 200-year-old statute to move his case, arguing that the alleged criminal conduct was part of his official duties in the white house. joining us from atlanta is nbc's blayne alexander, katie phang, anchor of the katie phang show, gwen keys, and former federal prosecutor paul butler. blayne, we didn't get to see these arguments, but we did hear them. walk us through what just happened. >> reporter: so ana, what we heard for the better part of 30 to 40 minutes or so was this kind of back and forth between meadows' attorneys and the d.a.'s office, and of course a lot of questioning from judges. the central argument for all of this is that meadows s

there is nobody that was closer to donald trump in the era and that was mark meadows. for a long time that mark has been testifying not only to the doj but to any and every government body. honestly, it was really difficult to see him get indicted, because i did work for him, he is a father, a grandfather. but he is, in my opinion, still as an opportunity to do the right thing. he does not have to continue following the donald trump shadow, he can be truthful and forthcoming and tell the people, the courts and the american people what he knows. i just hope he keeps that in mind, as these cases start to unfold. >> do you have any words of guidance from your own experience with her about how our audience should be receiving what liz cheney is now telling us? >> i think liz cheney's book is one of the most profound works of american literature of our time, and i think it should be studied for generations to come, just to be studied as many books in our founding documents going forward. not only is she one of the most courageous, selfish and resilient american patriots, bu

why don't you address this decision on mark meadows yakym -- mark meadows? >> mark meadows white house chief of staff, he was indicted on the current state court by fani willis. he filed a motion to remove to federal court, a particular statute, called the federal officer jurisdiction removal statute. he said look. all the actions i took here as an official were all under official acts, they fit within the scope of my authority and duties as chief of staff. that was rejected unanimously in an opinion written by bill prior . it was joined by ryan rosenbaum. rosenbaum is an obama appointee. meadows lost on two grounds. one, the statute does not apply to former federal officials, only to current federal officials. the second reason, he said even if it applied to current federal officials, the actions you took contacting the secretary of state, contacting state legislators, urging them to hold special sessions, that was campaign activity for donald trump. arguably you were violating the hatch act. it does not fit within the duties of the white house chief of sta

this court just affirmed the lower court t decision denying mark meadows' request to move his state't. let's bring in msnbc legal analyst and former u.s. attorney barbara mcquade for more on this. what doesba thisfo ruling mean mark meadows and for others who have been trying to move their cases out of state court into federal court? >> reporter: well, it is a significant decision, ana. we had this oral argument just friday, so i think there was an expectation we would see t week go by before we got a decision from the court of w appeals. we get it the very next business day. i think that shows the resounding defeat that meadows has beenth handed here. so itbe means this case will st in state court in georgia, and i think that this signals anybody else who might try to remove that case out of state court and into federal court would suffer aou similar fate. in fact, donald trump did not even seem to try to go down thid route. so ie. think fanny willis will successful. all of this iswi staying right there in georgia on her home turf. >> does this put the issue to rest then? >> it does

but it was clear that the judges did not buy what mark meadows' lawyer was selling completely on fridaywe'll have to wait to see what the ultimate decision is. but mark meadows could have taken a hit in his move to move the case to federal court. >>> still to come, an unbearable tragedy. israeli troops shot and killed three israeli hostages in gaza after misidentifying them as a threat. there's now a full investigation. >>> plus, we're finally seeing the autopsy firefighter late "friends" star matthew perry. we'll take a look at what the medical examiner says was in his system when he died and the role it played in his death. >>> plus while the federal government deals with the smuggling on the border, there are the complilicated actitions. we'l'll explain.n. >>> in northern gaza the health ministry says at least 14 people are dead after two air strikes on houses. they have been killed and apprehended during raids at schools in the region. >>> also heartaches and outrage spilling out into the streets after israeli defense forces accidentally killed three israeli hostages in gaza. the mi

>> mark meadows' attorney pushed back strongly against any implication from cassidy hutchinson from her book there that meadows mishandled intelligence. i will read you a part of what he said. he said mr. meadows was keenly aware of and adhered to requirements for the proper handling of classified material. any such material that he handled or was in possession of had been treated accordingly. he said that any implication that mark meadows had anything to do with the missing behinder, of c binder is wrong. we know the mystery remains. the fbi and the intelligence community was so concerned about this that they briefed members of the intelligence committee, the senior leadership of the intelligence committee in the senate about this very thing, wolf? >> evan perez, thank you very much for that report. >>> coming up, inside rudy giuliani's financial mess as he's now on the hook to pay nearly $150 million in damages for his 2020 election lies. >>> and the results of the autopsy on matthew perry have just been revealed. >>> more now on today's mafgs verdict against rudy giuliani. the nearly

mark meadows from the w sports joins me now. mark liver, cuz i'm just don't know how to win or lose any more. it's amazing story. i mean, what chevy, alonzo has done that. i mean, to think he took over in october 2020 to the with down at the bottom. and this has been positive ever since this is his 1st major coaching job. there is a slight problem for later cuz i'm coming up though 5 of the players are going to go to the african nations cope in january including victor bonus. i see we've sold this, but they've got patrick shake who can fill in for him. so it might not be too bad, but they've become friends never get ahead of themselves because the nickname is never cruising because they've never won the bundles like uh, they for the 2nd 5 times. so what about the tasting pack them specially byron munich 1st. yeah, i mean by 13 now as well against the be still got has been up there in the, in the top for we can have a look at. so one of the goals now let's go to the cost by who else. but harry came quite incredible, a tally. now h

>>> i do, and i also think that mark meadows, were leaving that out of the equation.his is not -- he's not able to say on certain things that this is a witch hunt by democratic leadership, or democratic district attorneys are attorney generals. and so forth. he's not able to say that. you have one of the key witnesses brand the freedom caucus and was his last chief of staff. so that's right inside the wheelhouse. that's another reason why he's worried about these people and have access to his phone, where he's talked to on the phone. caitlin, you covered him for a long time. and you had sources inside the white house that were always concerned about the president morality and his judgment relating to what was legal and what wasn't legal. and i think jack has evidence that proves a lot of you legality on the part of the president. so the question i was going -- i would love to ask cyrus or others is are they able to submit proof of what the president did to the supreme court, or is this a procedural case in front of the court in terms of what's going on with immunity w

i think a good example is the 11th circuit decision that andrew referenced earlier involving mark meadows. the case was argued on a friday and the written order was issued on the following monday. so when courts want to act quickly they can. i think this immunity question is when it does not involve complicated facts. the facts taken as they are alleged. it's really more of a legal question. maybe it's an not an on legal question, but one that can be decided within those two weeks. and then supreme court has the decision to deny certain -- i think it is a question of such public importance this ibram court is likely to take it up. and so, i agree with andrew that i think even if -- a 60 to 90-day delay because that statements in place means that all the free trial act pretty trial activity right now are is on pause and can't get restarted until after we get final decision. >> meanwhile, andrew, seemingly headed toward the supreme court is the question of keeping donald trump off presidential ballots of some states like colorado. today the michigan supreme court said no, he can't be on the

mark." by the way, meadows now denies abc's report that he flipped.ll in his new book "i am terrified." we got a great show for you tonight. my guests are talking heads and comedian mae martin. >> announcer: "the late show with stephen colbert" sponsored by target. get deals everyday with target circle deal of the day get your parties started for less, at target. [ music ends ] that grimy film on your teeth? dr. g? it's actually the buildup of plaque bacteria which can cause cavities. most toothpastes quit working in minutes. but crest pro-health's antibacterial fluoride protects all day. it stops cavities before they start. crest. to help protect from hiv. i prep without pills. with apretude, a prescription medicine used to reduce the risk of hiv without daily prep pills. with one shot every other month, just 6 times a year. in studies, apretude was proven superior to a daily prep pill in reducing the risk of hiv. you must be hiv negative to receive apretude and get tested before each injection. if you think you were exposed to hiv or have flu-like s

predominantly because mark meadows signed an agreement, his former chief of staff, one of the founders of the freedom caucus will testify against him. he will be convicted. if he's our nominee, he won't be able to vote for himself. >> neil: but he can be president. >> yes. >> neil: this is what i talk to other politcos. they're not steeped in the battle like you are. they say look, if he's not been dinged by all of these indictments, a conviction won't make a difference. you think it might. >> i think it is different for two reasons. one, it won't be a liberal prosecutor talking about him anymore. it will be his former chief of staff saying that he, mark meadows committed crimes because you wouldn't need immunity if he hadn't committed crimes and donald trump committed crimes on his watch. that's different for conservative voters to hear that from mark meadows than to hear it from jack smith. secondly, it's a jury of your peers convicting you. not, again, the two tiered system of justice that people are concerned about. it will be different. the question will be is there somebody that