marq claxton still with us, jim cavanaugh still with us. to the control room, if we can play that video one more time and then i do want to get marq as well as jim's response to what we were just able to show new here on msnbc. let's play that video if we can. >> i think you've had too much to drink to be driving. hands behind your back for me. put your hands behind your back. >> hey! stop fighting. stop fighting. you're going to get tased! >> stop! you're going to get tased! hands off the taser! hands off the taser! [ sounds of struggle ] >> stop fighting! [ gunshots ] >> marq, what did you hear there? >> well, i heard exactly what jim cavanaugh several minutes ago predicted we would hear, and that is routine what should be a very routine kind of police stop or an attempt to handcuff an individu individual. the mild resistance initially followed by some more direct resistance. and the question still remains. the question that the attorney posed early on, that jim had posed, that i'm posing. that is why did you shoot this man? why did you ki

we're going get over to nypd detective marq claxton. he is also director of the black enforcement alliance. thanks for being with us, marq. because as you know, this is one of those points, at least in news where in general times, and there is no such thing as that, you can probably agree with that, but given the context that we have been in within the last month, this stands out in a very special way. and based on the reporting coming from blayne, where do you think we're at in terms of atlanta in terms of this investigation of what happened with rayshard brooks? >> i think what we're in atlanta is what i'm referring to as the minneapolis effect. and that is the requirement that city government act swiftly and quickly as far as demanding that there be accountable from their law enforcement professions. and they're going to err, they're going err on the side of taking action against those individuals who are charged with the responsibility of establishing safety and security of the city. so i think it's quite clear based on the mayor's a

we're going get over to nypd detective marq claxton. he is also director of the black enforcement alliance. thanks for being with us, marq. because as you know, this is one of those points, at least in news where in general times, and there is no such thing as that, you can probably agree with that, but given the context that we have been in within the last month, this stands out in a very special way. and based on the reporting coming from blayne, where do you think we're at in terms of atlanta in terms of this investigation of what happened with rayshard brooks? >> i think what we're in atlanta is what i'm referring to as the minneapolis effect. and that is the requirement that city government act swiftly and quickly as far as demanding that there be accountable from their law enforcement professions. and they're going to err, they're going err on the side of taking action against those individuals who are charged with the responsibility of establishing safety and security of the city. so i think it's quite clear based on the mayor's a

marq claxton, he's a former nypd police detective and the director of the black law enforcement alliance. and, mark, let me just start with you. as a police officer looking at the tactics, looking at the way this situation develops, what do you see when you look at all of this video? >> an absolutely avoidable death. you know, beyond a tragic death, an absolutely avoidable set of circumstances that ultimately leads to the death of mr. brooks. and, you know, i see the mayor's reaction and the reaction that so many black and brown people have about the empathy about recognizing and acknowledging humanity of people, about prioritizing ourselves. in law enforcement, i think too often there is a lack of priority in human life, especially as it pertains to black and brown people. and what's most painful and what's most troubling, what the mayor expressed and other people have expressed, i have expressed is that in the video of the interaction with rayshard brooks, i recognize my own vulnerability and vulnerability of the black and brown people in my family. my son's vulnerability, the communit

marq claxton is with us, retired nypd police detective and the director of the black law enforcement alliance. and, marq, because we're coming off of a video of police tactic there that we just saw, where these two officers knock a man to the ground, his head immediately begins to bleed, i want to get your reaction as someone who's been there, someone who's been on the street in situations like this. someone approaches you, starts to talk. how does it become this? how does it turn into we're knocking him to the ground? >> lawrence, what we just witnessed, what the video shows is what many people refer to as a toxic police culture. and really it gives a clear example. we start with the unified police presence marching in unison. that's the us marching towards some protesters, obviously peaceful protesters. that's the them. an interaction occurs where a police officer uses an excessive amount of force, violating the use of force continuum, which basically says, you know, you want to meet force with equal force. shoving an individual down and then a sense of humanity kicked in automatica

mark class acti marq claxton is with us, the director of to black law enforcement alliance. and marq, because we're coming off a video of a police tactic there that we just saw where these two officers knock a man to the ground, his head immediately begins to bleed, i want to get your reaction as someone who has been there, someone who has been on the street in situations like this. someone approaches you, starts to talk, how does it become this? how does it turn into we're knocking him to the ground? >> what you just witnessed to what the video shows is what many refer to as a toxic police culture. you start with the unified police presence marching in unison. that's the us, marching towards some protesters. obviously peaceful protesters. that's the them. an interaction occurs where a police officer uses an excessive amount of force, violating the use of force continuum, which basically says you want to meet equal force with equal force. the use of force continuing, shoving an individual down, and then a sense of humanity kicked in automatically from that police officer. he

and marq claxton is with us. he's a retired new york city police detective and the director of the black law enforcement alliance. and jelani, let me begin with you on this question of defunding the police. we heard in norah o'donnell's question do you support defunding the police, we heard joe biden say i don't support defunding the police. then he went on to talk about budget cuts to the police if they don't conform with these federal requirements that he would want to impose. so are we in a semantics space here on this phrase, defund police, or is there something more going on? >> i think so. and i've been thinking that for a minute because, you know, what biden is talking about is a very tried and true strategy going back to the civil rights movement where the federal legislation, as you well know, to prevent discrimination was to withhold federal dollars from any institution that discriminated on the basis of race. that's the way they got around the impact of private institutions being able to do what they w

it was brought up by marq claxton. that is after having seen george floyd's video or whatever other videos that you've watched in the last few years, there is a fear amongst some black men about what happens when they go into police custody. so there is an added element here when we're talking about deescalation of the fact that the act of arresting a black man for a non-violent crime has people worried. there may be some instinct there to run, to get away, to say -- i mean, i heard people telling me tonight and today, and i've heard this from others who exist in positions of prominence in society, to say that nothing feels like the feeling of about to be arrested if you're a black man. and the worry about what that means. how do we figure out how the police can have empathy for that perspective that says this guy wants to get away because he actually fears for his life? >> well, i don't even think you should be -- the first two weeks of the police academy ought to be history. you ought to know the history of america.

joining me now, marq claxton, a retired detective for the nypd, currently the director of the black law enforcement alliance. and phillip ateva goff is the co-founder and president of center for policing equity. thanks to both of you for being here. marq, we have been studying this video and the information coming from the atlanta police department and watching the developments in atlanta. there's a lot we don't know, but what we seem to know and what the police have told us is that the 911 call came in about a man asleep in the drive-through lane. and now that man is dead. what do you make of this? >> i think what the mayor indicated is something that we really have to pay attention to and focus on, and that is whether or not the level of force that was used in this interaction, which should have been pretty simple and straightforward. you responded to a call, in essence, for assistance. someone may have called just perhaps to offer assistance to this individual sleeping. but either way, there has to be the level of course commensurate with the level of threat. and you can't -- a polic

marq claxton is still with us, former nypd detective. marq, wanted to get your reaction to what you see as developments in the prosecution case today, with the autopsy report indicating that there could be criminal liability for homicide for two other officers who were also compressing george floyd's body. >> i think today's autopsy reports came as support of what we saw with our own eyes and believed in our hearts regarding the death of mr. floyd. i want to touch on the movement happening of late, some of the events that occurred today. seems as if we're squandering a golden opportunity. when your commander in chief becomes a provocateur in chief, you're squandering a golden opportunity for reform, just shows you how far we are from reform. civilian population emotionally committed to police and criminal justice reform. law enforcement professionals across the nation have expressed publicly their support for some level of reform, and you have a president who instead decides to provide provocation and increased militarization of our poli

joining us now is marq claxton. ired new york city police detective and director of the black law enforcement alliance. marq, i have to say thank you to you personally because you were on tv probably as much as i was when these protests were going on, and you were creating some real context around some of the things we were going to have to do after we got through the immediacy of the clashes between police and protesters and police and journalists. and, in fact, in minneapolis where this all started, they seem to have taken some strides in the right direction. >> oh, absolutely. i think what's been happening at warp speed has really been a push for reform. but just to think about it, minneapolis being the catalyst for much of the activity that's been going on from the governmental response immediately terminating the police officers, governmental response demanding additional prosecutions of the police officers themselves, then most recently deciding not to negotiate with police unions in regards to operational and

and marq claxton, as always, thank you for your perspective, your invaluable perspective on this. we appreciate that. when we come back from this break, wounded combat veteran senator tammy duckworth will join us with her reaction to donald trump's first secretary of defense finally publicly turning against donald trump for what you're seeing donald trump do right there. james mattis has condemned the trump presidency as quote three years without mature leadership. general mattis says he is angry and appalled, and so is senator tammy duckworth. that's next. s my body of proof. proof i can fight moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. proof i can fight psoriatic arthritis... ...with humira. proof of less joint pain... ...and clearer skin in psa. humira targets and blocks a source of inflammation that contributes to joint pain and irreversible damage. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic rea

i want to bring in marq claxton, director of the black law enforcement alliance and atlanta journal reporter marlon walker. what's been the reaction? it's been a very short time. but what are you hearing about the mayor's announcement about both the police chief and the call for the officer to be fired? >> it's still very early on, but a lot of people are in shock. erica shields has a great reputation in metro atlanta, and a lot of people are wondering what this means at the end of the day. people are still, you know, like you said, it's been less than 20 hours since everything went down at the wendy's in south atlanta. so a lot of people are still confused about what's going on. the video was just released. i don't think a loft people have had time to digest that at this point. so people are still taking in what they saw last night on social media. and using that to form their opinions. >> and marq, understanding that you haven't had an opportunity even to process this, none of us have. but you heard what the mayor just said, that there is a difference between what you can do and what you s

you'll recognize marq claxton. he serve as an nypd detective, but he is director of the black law enforcement alliance and brings both police experience and civil rights to all of this. good evening to both of you. let me start with you were you man you, jumani. >> thanks very much for having me on. my measure of progress is exactly what you're talking about. so often the eye for calm during these measures is swift. it's harsh. much swifter, much harsher than the actions of actually doing something about what people are asking for. the cry has been "no justice, no peace" for a long time. it seems everybody wants peace with no justice. the bills and the policies that you put forth should not have taken all of this unrest to the simplest of these. but these and many more are what people need. i just have a to add it's not just police. these people have been home seeing mostly black and brown people dying from a pandemic. these people have seen black mothers' mortality rate sky-high because people don't believe their

these potential changes are joe ested from police brutality matters and former nypd detective marq claxton who's the director of the black law enforcement alliance. good to you both with us. marq, let me start with you. where would sweeping changes in police departments across the country even start with the understanding that we're not just talking about changing laws and case law and customary procedures, we're also talking about departments that have thousands of closed contracts with cities and counties and states that are in force right now that include disciplinary procedure. so where do you even start? >> well, i think you start by recognizing and acknowledging that there's a police culture that has in large part become toxic and become antithetical to justice equally applied, fairly applied justice. there's very problematic. you also have to avoid minimizing the situation as tim scott just attempted to do there where you talk about the misconduct of police or bad behavior by police as opposed to talking about criminal conduct. talk about civil and human rights violations conducted

marq claxton. gentleme gentleme gentlemen, we appreciate your time. thanks very much. >>> up next, we'll take you to atlanta where residents are making their voices heard. we're live in atlanta and across america here on msnbc. your bank can be virtually any place. so, when you get a check... you can deposit it from here. and you can see your transactions and check your balance from here. you can save for an emergency from here. or pay bills from here. so when someone asks you, "where's your bank?" you can tell them: here's my bank. or here's my bank. or, here's my bank. because if you download and use the chase mobile app, your bank is virtually any place. visit chase.com/mobile. ♪[ siren ] & doug give me your hand! i can save you... lots of money with liberty mutual! we customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ...i felt i couldn't be at my... ...best for my family. in only 8 weeks with mavyret... ...i was cured. i faced reminders of my hep c every day. i worri

marq claxton is the director of black lives alliance. i'm ali velshi. hope you'll join us too. "the 11th hour" with brian williams begins right now. >>> and good evening once again. day 1,240 of this trump administration. 144 days to go until the presidential election. donald trump is now trying to keep the outrage over the killing of george floyd and the calls for justice from engulfing his presidency and his campaign for re-election. many inside and outside the administration have conceded his response thus far has been out of sync with much of the nation. he has declared himself the president of law and order, sometimes just tweeting out that phrase.

marq claxton is the director of black lives alliance. i'm ali velshi. you can hope you'll join us too. "the 11th hour" with brian williams begins right now. >>> and good evening once again. day 1,240 of this trump administration. 144 days to go until the presidential election. donald trump is now trying to keep the outrage over the killing of george floyd and the calls for justice from engulfing his presidency and his campaign for re-election. many inside and outside the administration have conceded his response thus far has been out of sync with much of the nation. he has declared himself the president of law and order, sometimes just tweeting out that phrase. now in an interview with fox news, he's openly questioning the motives behind the protests that have erupted on america's streets for nearly three weeks. >> i think you had protesters for different reasons, and then you had protesting also because, you know, they just didn't know. i've watched -- i watched it very closely. why are you here? and they really weren't able to say. what we saw was a t

marq claxton is a retired nypd detective and director of the black law enforcement alliance.aptain sonia pruitt of montgomery county pd in maryland. she's the chairwoman for the national black police association. thank you for the work that you both do. >>> president trump lost multiple court battles this week and lost another one this weekend. a federal judge will not block the publication of john bolton's white house tell-all memoir. donald trump's reaction to it all, next. stay with us. 's reaction to it all, next. stay with us >>> well, there were any number of conversations between the president and erdogan of turkey on the subject of hawkbank. and what erdogan wanted was basically a settlement that would take the pressure off. and the president said to erdogan at one point, look, those prosecutors in new york are obama people. wait till i get my people in and then we'll take care of this. and i thought to myself, and i'm a department of justice alumnus myself, i've never heard any president say anything like that. ever. i tell you, it did feel like obstruction of justic

marq claxton who is also director of the black law enforcement alliance.lon and rashad and danielle are back with us again. i wonder if we can begin with your thoughts on what is happening this evening, particularly the response from the city of atlanta. >> the response in the city of atlanta, you mean the mayor, is consistent with what we are living in, that is you know the minneapolis era, where the governmental response is much more -- is swift and much more punitive toward law enforcement being held to a much higher standard. the response and the statements from the attorneys earlier was quite significant. their exas per rag and frustration you could hear in their voices was perfect in mirroring the entire community, the black and brown people about the processes that put us in this position to fall victim of repeat violence on a regular basis. i thought that was significant. and then the call for police to be more service oriented. we have to move away, shift away -- i agree with the attorneys. i agree with rashad speaking about this, i agree with jim

marq claxton, professor murray, my thanks to both of you.s our special coverage, about 12:15 on the east coast, 9:15 out west. coming up president obama weight in in public, giving his first speech on all of this, and it's making waves. also news that broke late in the day. donald trump's own former defense chief says he's now a threat to the constitution. we also have a live interview tonight. staying up late with us is congresswoman maxine waters. she has been leading on these civil rights and policing issues for decades. also as you can see we'll continue to monitor these protests on a night where some things are changing. i'm ari melber. stay with us right here on msnbc. at fisher investments, we do things differently and other money managers don't understand why. because our way works great for us! but not for your clients. that's why we're a fiduciary, obligated to put clients first. so, what do you provide? cookie cutter portfolios? nope. we tailor portfolios to our client's needs. but you do sell investments that earn you high commis