matt sandusky's mother has suggested publicly on multiple occasions she believes her son was abused by jersey sandusky while he was under foster care originally in the second mile program, then gets adopted boy jerry sandusky at the age of 18 and investigators had looked at this very closely for a long time, but something broke, something triggered a reaction in matt sandusky's mind. we don't know exactly what, but watching that testimony the first day that caused him to have this dramatic turnaround. >> michael isikoff reporting from bellefonte, pennsylvania. thanks so much. keep us posted if there are developments from the jury. joining me is former prosecutor and civil attorney john q. kelly. john, as we understand it, the jury is getting readback testimony right now on mcqueary, coach mcqueary's testimony about what he witnessed in 2001 when he alleges having seen jerry sandusky in the shower with a young boy in some type of sexual altercation. explain when we talk about matt sandusky why he would not have been incorporated as a witness and only be used as rebuttal? >> well, i thin

matt sandusky is his name. he said through his attorney late today that jerry sandusky sexually abused him and that he was prepared to testify for the prosecution during the trial. now, he was not called to the stand. we're going to get into why in just a minute because that's of course the question everybody wants to know the answer to. first, a bit of background. he went to live with the sanduskies as a foster child. he was later adopted. he had denied ever being abused by sandusky till just this week. as the trial was going on, he apparently approached prosecutors and told them his adopted father did molest him. joining me now live with the latest, national correspondent jason carroll. also cnn con trip tributor sara gannham. why didn't he call him to testify? >> i think that's a good question. there's a question in term of whether or not his testimony would have been admissible. for one reason, jerry sandusky is not charged with sexually abusing his son. i can tell you this, think of this scenario. let's say

that's when he said he came into contact with matt sandusky. he said, quote, he, as in jerry sandusky, started pumping his hand full of soap like he was going to throw it. matt got out. he went to another shower. then prosecutor says, can you describe how matt looked? number four's answer was nervous. i think the implication was very clear there. anderson. >> jason and sara, stick around. criminal defense attorney mark geragos. could author of "mistrial." also with us, cnn senior analyst sunny hostin. mark, what do you make of this? do you find the timing of it suspicious at all? and does it make sense to you why they would not have mentioned this during the trial? >> well, obviously, i think the timing is incredibly suspicious. they wait till the jury is out. the day the jury gets out. then all a sudden there's a press release basically. for lack of a better term. that's exactly what it was. and clearly they have this person who is under oath already in front of the grand jury. who's been presumably given statements to the police. who do you th

jerry, denied abusing matt sandusky.of the family, the other four brothers, his sister, and his mother were all prepared to testify that whatever matt sandusky said on the stand was not true. and that matt had had some health issues, mental health issues, had a history of changing stories about what he did or didn't do. and they said this came as no surprise to them that he would turn around and indicate that his father did something to him. we were prepared to deal with that. but, again, at the urging of counsel, he realized, jerry realized that had matt testified it would have destroyed whatever chance he had in an acquittal of this case. >> to get some reaction from the prosecution side, linda kelly joins us now. we heard the defense team essentially say that the victims in this case are all testifying, looking for a payday. and that this case was essentially rushed into court. your reaction to their possible intertanment of appeal? >> i think i can say that the defense in this given a lot of discovery material. they

matt sandusky is 33 years old now. he went to live with them as a foster child and he was later adopted. he denied ever being abused by sandusky until just this week. as the trial was going on, he apparently approached prosecutors and told them that he was molested. jason, if matt sandusky's claims was known by the prosecution, why didn't they call him to testify? >> well, i think it's a good question. i think there's a question in terms of whether or not his testimony would have been a admissib admissible, for one reason, jerry sandusky is not charged with sexually abusing his son. i can tell you this. think of this scenario. let's say for example jerry sandusky had taken the witness stand and it said during his testimony i'm a great father, i have a great relationship with my children. that, then, would have opened the door for the prosecution to call a rebuttal witness and my sources told me, if jerry sandusky had taken the stand, they were prepared to put matt sandusky on the stand as a rebuttal witness and my sourc

jerry sandusky's adopted son matt. that is not something that the jury is supposed to be considering tond. a scandal the likes of which punxsutawney, pennsylvania has not seen in years. the jury deliberated for 21 years after a trial that was brief but wrenching when it comes to what they heard. defense attorney said he would be shocked if they acquitted his client on all charges. in fact he said he would probably die of a heart attack. we'll know in just a few minutes what will happen. susan candiotti is outside the courthouse, we'll be talking to jeff toobin and mark geregos for legal angles. and susan candiotti, as we're looking right now, we see a lot of people on the courthouse steps. are those people who have recently gathered or have they been there all along? >> well, throughout the day, people have been hanging around this courthouse around especially as the hours went on into the night, there was a real sense of drama building here, anderson, and a sense of electricity in the air that something was going to h

sandusky's own adopted son, matt now claims his father molested him too. r man is going public with his accusations against sandusky. that's in addition to the ten alleged victims that sandusky is on trial for. my goodness. let's go to sunny hostin. she's on the case for us. sunny, this is unbelievable story. the jury inside that building has no idea what matt is claiming. they don't know what's going on with that part of the story. >> reporter: they don't. we heard about this after the jury already started deliberating. what's very interesting, and i think the question on everyone's minds is why did this not come out before? why was this not part of the trial? we are learning that matt sandusky just came forward. he may testify. he contacted the prosecutors through an attorney,et with t me tt he had too had been molested by his adopted father. my understanding is he didn't testify because jerry sandusky was not charged with his molestation. of course, had jerry sandusky testified to a certain relationship with matt, sandusky, if jerry had gotten on the wit

sunny, we've heard now, we just learned in fact yesterday for the first time that matt sandusky, an adopted jerry sandusky, was willing to testify that he had also suffered abuse, something apparently he hadn't told the grand jury, something he only told prosecutors through his attorneys just earlier this week or late last week. is it likely now, given that jerry sandusky has been found guilty on 45 counts, that there would be another trial for any allegations of abuse by matt sandusky, or is that done? >> i doen know that that's likely. because again, you've got a guilty verdict on 45 out of 48 counts. he's got exposure of almost 500 years. does the state, the commonwealth want to go forward with another prosecution, having matt sandusky having to testify against his adopted father, is that something that really will happen? unlikely, anderson. especially because he did not come forward initially. i don't know that it's necessary in a case like this. unless, of course, matt sandusky feels that he needs that justice since he has reported. i don't know that that is likely, but it certainly i

trial happened and today when we get this statement from his private attorney who basically said matt sandusky contacted this private attorney and said i wanted you to reach out to prosecutors and tell them quote to disclose for the first time in this case that he is a victim of jerry sandusky's abuse. anderson? >> sara, matt sandusky's wife had petitioned the court to not allow their kids to sleep over jerry sandusky's house. this was a long time ago, correct? >> that's right. and probably even more importantly, his mother, as far back as 1996, has been asking the courts to take a deeper look into the relationship between matt and jerry sandusky. when he was in foster care at the sandusky home she had seen behavior that she would describe to the grand jury as strange, stalking-like behavior. she described one time where matt fled from the sandusky's home in the middle of a rain storm in the middle of the night and didn't want to go back, even after jerry shoeld up at a relative's house where matt was hiding out. so she described all of these things, but matt sandusky himself got before the gr

matt sandusky is his name. d through his attorney late today that jerry sandusky sexually abused him and that he was prepared to testify for the prosecution during the trial. now, he was not called to the stand. we're going to get into why in just a minute because that's of course the question everybody wants to know the answer to. first, a bit of background. he went to live with the sanduskies as a foster child. he was later adopted. he had denied ever being abused by sandusky till just this

but it's very interesting this matt sandusky. e alleged reason they did not put jerry sandusky on the witness stand. they feared that as a rebuttal witness the government would call matt sandusky who would after all this time saying no, my father never touched me. he never touched me, now all of a sudden he was going to get on the stand and say, yes, i was molested. >> avery, we don't know. what was the sequence of events here? what point did matt sandusky step forward and say i have a story to tell? or did the defense say we want to use him or the prosecution. we want to use him as a rebuttal witness potentially as opposed to just calling him in the first place? what could have potentially happened here? >> i think both the prosecution and defense realized that matt sandusky had credibility issues. and to me, i never bought the explanation that we heard last night from the council for jerry sandusky. yeah, that well, you know, we knew that matt was going to testify and then jerry was going to testify. we were going to call him. b

four days into jerry sandusky's trial, sandusky's adopted son, matt sandusky, secretly met with policethem sandusky also molested him. nbc news has exclusively obtained the audio of that police interview. we should warn you, the conversation can be graphic at times. here's nbc's national investigative correspondent, michael isikoff. >> reporter: jerry sandusky's adopted son, matt, in his own words, describes for the first time how he says he was molested by his father. >> like, the showering, with the hugging, with the rubbing, with the just, the talking to me, the way he spoke. >> reporter: nbc news has exclusively obtained a 29-minute tape, recorded by police detectives the week before jerry sandusky's conviction. at the time, they were preparing sandusky's son to testify as a surprise prosecution witness at his adoptive father's trial. matt sandusky told police he was repeatedly molested and would try to avoid being touched. sometimes hiding in a fetal position when his father entered his bedroom. >> if you were pretending you were asleep and if you were touch ordinary rubbed in som

the bombshell, though, that the jurors will not hear, matt sandusky, the adopted son of the former penn assistant football coach, telling prosecutors that he was molested by sandusky. we'll go to our reporters. we'll also speak with our legal panel. about why prosecutors chose not to have matt sandusky take the stand. he was apparently willing to testify about this. also, that disturbing video with a surprise ending. the disturbing, really incredible verbal abuse heaped upon this woman. a 68-year-old bus monitor. karen klein. by a group of middle schoolchildren. we'll show you parts of the video. it's so disturbing, had a hard time watching. there's been an outpouring of support, including donations towards her, more than $300,000. several of the kids have actually written letters of apology. we're going to read them to karen, get her reaction. we also have a big surprise to her. those stories and tonight's riduculist. >> really looking forward to that. >>> now, our next story "outfront." trayvon martin case. this really is the most compelling evidence released so far. for the first tim

and that is where matt sandusky's -- that's the day matt sandusky's name surfaced in the testimony.ght. he was not seen back in the courtroom. and did not reemerge in the courthouse until our nbc cameras caught him entering the courthouse yesterday morning with state troopers. and then exiting right after court adjourned. so all indications are that matt sandusky had flipped, had gone over to the prosecutors. in fact, the statement from his lawyers today says he was retained last week to negotiate an arrangement to contact the prosecutors in this case. and that they had him on hand to testify if jerry sandusky took the stand they would bring matt sandusky on as rebuttal. >> and quickly, it underscores the prospect of more charges that jerry sandusky coul when this outcome is behind us. >> certainly that, but look. there's a lot of other aspects to this case as you know. there's a wide ranging investigation including into testified to, whether they testified to truthfully. there are new e-mails that have been gotten. they've got a lot on their plate. i think prosecutors are hoping to

at that point, matt sandusky agreed to be adopted by jerry and dottie and he changed his last name to> at that point. paul kallen, the jerry was already sequestered when this came out. will they find out about this? >> no, they won't find out about it. frankly, if they did, this is such a devastating accusation it would almost certainly result in a mistrial. the reason they have been sequestered is to shield and protect them from any outside information relating to the case. they can only consider evidence that was developed in the courtroom and hopefully if the court officers are doing their job properly, they'll never hear about this new accusation. >> sara, the closing arguments were today. one thing dish just want to point out, everyone, that's matt sandusky you're look at, at the screen, the man on the right. sara, closing arguments. i know the prosecutor had the last word. he was standing behind jerry sandusky. he says, quote, he knows he did it and you know he did it, find him guilty of everything. was that the most powerful thing that was said? what did the defense say? >> it

when this trial started 11 days ago, matt sandusky was sitting with the family with dottie sandusky andy. he was even sequestered with other defense witnesses at the start of that trial. now, it was interesting and where things started to seem like they might be changing, is that he broke that squest trags and came back into the courtroom listened to victim number four who mentioned matt sandusky in his testimony. there was a time when he was in the shower with jerry sandusky and horsing around and touching was beginning and matt got out of the shower. when he was asked, when victim four was asked, what matt san dusdy was doigs or looked like. just said he looked nervous. matt sandusky, i never saw him in the courtroom after that day. that was day number one. it wasn't until the jury went into deliberate, day ten, that we heard from him again through his attorney saying for the first time in, like i said, more than a year, this he is a victim of jerry sandusky. >> and of course the jury won't hear any of this because it comes after the case has gone to the jury in the jury room. sara ga

>> correct. >> reporter: matt sandusky told police woe try to escape from the sandusky house, one night. he also said he tried commit suicide. >> i know that i really wanted to die at that point in time. >> reporter: sandusky told police he has been seeing a therapist and memories of his abuse are just now coming back. >> and you said that at the beginning of our interview last night that things happened to you but there was noer -- but that you can recall, there was no penetration oral sex is that correct? >> yes, that is -- at this time, i don't recall that. >> reporter: after years of denying that he had been abused, including to a grand jury, matt sandusky told police he was coming forward now so his family would know what really happened. >> so that they can really have closure and see what the truth actually is and just to right the wrong, honestly i of going to the grand jury and lying. >> reporter: sandusky's offered to testify was a crucial turning point in his father's trial. when jerry learned that his son had turned on him, he was crushed and it kept him off the witness stan

but it is very interesting this matt sandusky, because this is the alleged reason they did not put jerry sandusky on the witness stand. they feared that as a rebuttal witness the government would call matt sandusky who would, after all this time, saying, no, my father never touched me. he never touched me. now all of a sudden he was going to get on the stand and say, yes, i was molested. >> avery, we don't know. what were the sequence of events here? at what point did matt scanned step forward and say, i have a story to tell? or did the defense say we want to use him or the prosecution we want to use him as a rebuttal witness potentially as opposed to just calling him in the first place? what could have potentially happened here? >> well, i think there are a in many of things going on. number one, i think both the prosecution and the defense realized that matt sandusky had credibility issues and, to me, i never bought the explanation we heard last night from the counsel for jerry sandusky that, well, you know, we knew matt was going to testify and then jerry was going to testify, we were

parents and adopted him at age 18. >> and when you were staying at your house -- >> reporter: matt sandusky told police he would try to escape from the sandusky house, one night fleeing barefoot to hide in his grandfather's basement. he also said he tried to commit suicide. >> i know i really wanted to die at that point in time. >> reporter: sandusky told police he's been seeing the therapist and memories of the abuse are just now coming back. >> and you said at the beginning of our interview last night that things happened to you but there was no -- that you can recall, there was no penetration or oral sex. is that correct? >> yes. as of this time, i don't recall that. >> reporter: after years of denying that he had been abused, including to a grand jury, matt sandusky told police he was coming forward now so his family would know what really happened. >> so they can really have closure and see what the truth actually is. and just to right the wrong, honestly, of going to the grand jury and lying. >> reporter: sandusky's offer to testify was a crucial turning point in his father's trial. w

throughout the last couple of days here that the jury in rendering this verdict had no idea that matt sanduskyallegations against his father. the jury has been see he they have no idea that matts a. sandusky made these allegations and that is, indeed, another component to what is unfolding here tonight by chance jerry sandusky should be acquitted there is still the possibility that there could be further legal action targeting him. not just here in pennsylvania but the possibility that he may have committed criminal acts in other locations such as texas where some of the alleged victims were taken. there is the possibility of federal charges as well. so no matter what the outcome tonight, it does appear that the legal problems for jerry sandusky are no where near over but his own attorney conceded earlier he does expect there is going to be a conviction on at least some of the 48 counts you detailed just a moment ago and a great possibility that jerry sandusky is in it fact going to be taken to the center county jail after the verdict is rendered if he is found guilty of these charges bail wou

there was one time he ran away from the sandusky home in the middle of the night. but mattt and continued to live at the sandusky home. he was even adopted as an adult. of his own choice to have an adult adoption to change his last name to sandusky. and for years, you know, even after his mom testified before the grand jury in 2011, he continued to deny that anything ever happened. >> let me turn to our team for a moment. you know, it's interesting as this is going to clearly head to a civil trial, and a civil trial means they'll be looking to get money probably, victims from penn state and certainly from jerry sandusky himself. i think some people sometimes raise the issue of timing for that as well. >> yeah. >> well, i mean, i'd be very curious to hear, to the extent our former guest actually asked, implied that matt sandusky was in his own way a bit of an enabler. do you see that? >> you know, it's hard to tell. i have seen -- i have heard from others who have been around the sandusky home. for example, the attorney for the person who's being called victim number 11, tha

matt sandusky is his name. aid through his attorney late today that jerry sandusky sexually abused him and that he was prepared to testify for the prosecution during the trial. he was not called to the stand. we're going to get into why in just a moment because that's the question everybody wants to know the answer to. matt sandusky is 33 years old now. he went to live with them as a foster child and he was later adopted. he denied ever being abused by sandusky until just this week. as the trial was going on, he apparently approached prosecutors and told them that his adopted father did molest him. jason carroll, cnn contributor and sarah gannon. jason, if matt sandusky's claims

we found out, we knew today that matt sandusky was prepared to testify against his father, and apparentlyhey were going to put jerry sandusky on the stand and that would have been one dramatic point in time in this courtroom, if a father faced off against his own son, against the backdrop of facing 48 counts of child molestation, and then a father, father's word against his son's word in a case like this. dramatic as well. and, you know, obviously you can see jerry sandusky being taken into custody. and just a last point here, i thought it was interesting, i think joe amendola likes to talk a little bit here, but for him to say that he's not surprised that his client was found guilty because there was so much evidence that the defense didn't have time to weed through it. you know, first time i've ever heard a defense attorney complain that there was a prepop drains of evidence that he didn't have time to get through it all. >> very surprising to hear that. again, these are pictures of jerry sandusky being led away in handcuffs this afternoon. as brian mentioned, you heard the crowd there

we saw matt sandusky come into court that day but we didn't know at the time that prosecutors had him in their back pocket to bring forward. but because sandusky didn't take the stand, they weren't able to use matt sandusky's newfound allegations. >> so, susan, i know this is probably way too early to ask given that the announcement of this alleged abuse came yesterday. but does anybody have any idea as to whether prosecutors are harnessing this, making a decision on what to do about it, considering a separate indictment, separate from the trial that we're in right now? >> well, certainly one reason why this is surprising is because in public statements matt sandusky had been supportive openly of his father but he did testify before the grand jury and at the time the defense attorney for jerry sandusky said he wasn't worried about what matt sandusky had to say. now apparently he may have to. certainly when anyone comes forward with allegations, they are investigated. will this lead to additional charges against jerry sandusky? it's too soon to tell. >> well, i tell you what, they have

matt sandusky. you're going to see him shortly. he is in a striped t-shirt. you see him on the right. he says he too was sexually abused by jerry sandusky. national correspondent susan candiotti is outside of the courthouse. susan, i want to talk a little bit about matt sandusky. he says through his attorney that he was ready to testify. why didn't he? >> well, he didn't testify, carol, because he -- because his father didn't take the stand. it was a pivotal moment back on wednesday when we were all waiting to find out whether jerry sandusky would take the stand in his own defense. we saw matt sandusky come through the witness door that day, and then it was revealed that prosecutors through sources had matt sandusky on standby in their back pocket to bring out as a surprise rebuttal witness if matt's father, jerry, had taken the stand in his own defense. that didn't happen. so matt didn't testify. but then it was revealed yesterday through that statement that you just mentioned, through matt sandusky's lawyers, saying that matt is now revealing that he was abu

sandusky's son, matt, says his father sexually abused him. considering all the testimony we heard, were you surprised by these latest allegations? >> i wasn't, shawn. frankly in the fall when matt sandusky's wife appealed to the court and asked for an injunction for coach sandusky being around her three children, it seemed obvious to me that matt sandusky was a possible victim at that time. >> let me ask you, as a survivor yourself, you can help me understand what matt sandusky might be going through. as we said, he's 33 years old, a father of three young children. obviously he grew up in this house. he was a foster child, legally adopted as an adult. what might he be going through right now? >> a lot of trauma. reliving the most traumatic experiences of his life. and he's a family member, which makes it more complicated for him as an abuse survivor. when he came forward, i think it showed a lot of great strength and courage for him to do so. and also, i would be concerned about the other kids that they had adopted. this was unfortunately a c