maya wiley, former assistant u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, a veteran of the new york city mayor's office, now with the new school here in new york. and dr. kavita patel, former senior aide in the obama white house advising on health reform, financial regulatory reform, economic recovery issues. also happened to be a clinical physician and among our medical contributors. good evening and welcome to all of you. dr. patel, i'm duty-bound to start with you. today mike pence said that oklahoma had flattened the curve in advance of the president's rally. they've done nothing of the sort. a graphic of various nations in the world in "the new york times" today shows spain, germany, italy having crushed it. the united states still continuing at the same level of cases. the president insisting texas and florida are doing great. they are not. my question is where's the cdc? where are the other elements of his government? where would the cdc be in saying that maybe a gathering of 20,000 people in one arena,

we really appreciate it, as always. >> my pleasure. >> back with us now, our kristen welker, maya wiley, donna edwards, and phil rucker. kristen, first of all, from the president, we heard some mixed messaging because he wants to emphasize his law and order credentials, his support for police, at the same time attacking the obama administration which actually did do police reforms that were dismantled by the incoming trump white house. >> that's right, andrea, there was a fair amount of mixed messaging. you had president trump unveil his executive order which he says, to your point, after review by the justice department, presumably outlaw chokeholds unless the officers' life is at risk. that's a big loophole because of course if an officer argues that his or her life is at risk then the question becomes what is the counterpoint to that. but clearly trying to unveil his plan to address some of these concerns by protesters while also painting himself as the law and order president yet again, andrea, underscoring the extent to which he sees police departments as important, and that he doe

maya wiley, how significant is this, and forgive my pessimism. will it matter in the end?> this is extremely significant, and let me just draw one comparison. we laid rayshard brooks to rest today. the nation watched that happen. it's called equal justice under the law, and rayshard brooks didn't get it. but donald trump, donald trump insists on loyalty and that his friends and allies get something no other american can, and that's to rise above the laws of this nation. and that's essentially what we are hearing from career public servants, from public servants who it was already highly unusual when we saw them step off the briefings filed in that case. that said to a lot of us who have any experience with the department of justice that something really smelly is going on, or we wouldn't have seen that. and i think that this is not surprising in light of everything we have seen, including if we just go back, just go back to the mueller report. just go back to how william barr spun and misrepresented that report in a summary that he released that even had robert mueller at

and maya wiley, former assistant u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, a veteran of the new york city mayor's office, now with the new school here in new york. and, counselor, maya, i'd like to begin with you and this phrase "defund the police" because it's out there now. it's visible from space on 16th street. it's all over the web and on every broadcast like this one. i heard democrats today call this a straight-up valentine politically to the republicans. we've seen the fruits of that already today and tonight. i've heard democrats reassure people that this isn't what it says, and i've seen a lot of complaints on social media that when you use the phrase, explain the phrase. assuming reasonable people want something to happen when they call 911, maya, what's your understanding of defunding the police? >> so my understanding of defunding the police is fundamentally about recognizing that we have had a peace dividend that the we have not spent on our people. what i mean by that is police budgets have been g

maya wiley, you get our final question. the killing of rayshard brooks when compared to the killing of george floyd, obviously no two are alike, no two victims are alike, is there anything mitigating about it where the police are concerned? is there cover for police officers in the atlanta case that there was not under that grinding and fatal knee that we all saw in minneapolis? >> what we expect to hear is a defense that says there was a public safety concern and a safety for the officers because we saw rayshard brooks struggling and because he had a taser. what i would ask people to remember is you're only allowed to use the force that's necessary to protect human life, to protect the officers. he had a taser, not a gun. there was no indication that there was a gun, and the officers had tasers, which means they had the opportunity to use something that's extremely painful, and i think there are concerns about, but that certainly are not as life-threatening as a gun. and in fact, that's why police departments have started

and maya wiley, former assistant u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, a veteran of the new york city mayor's office, now with the new school in new york. maya, we're going to begin with you because the news tonight has to deal with your old shop. the southern district of new york. for people who missed the explanation what it is during impeachment, it is basically the department of judgment, new york city office. here's the headline in "the new york times." it's about that man, geoffrey berman, u.s. attorney who investigated trump associates, including but not limited to mr. giuliani, is abruptly replaced. maya, he's out on a friday night. the former u.s. attorney preet bharara making it clear on twitter he does not think this was a resignation. we know berman was offered other jobs at doj and declined them. what do you make of it? >> you know, we used to call it the department of justice, not the department of just trump. unfortunately all too often it seems, as certainly the optics are, that this is a dep

and with us is maya wiley. >> jared, what are you thinking about on this issue?k you for having me on. it wasn't along ago you had my on for the laquan mcdonald case. he was assassinated by the police, recorded. the officer found guilty but receives a seven-year sentence. so we're not even past that and here we are again with two more cases what i would analogize is to this, ari. we continue to try to change the faucet where we see desperately need to tear up the floor and fix the pipes. that's what we're doing with these conversations that we're having. people are losing their lives, ari. for black men and black people in general, this is the same movie, we're in the same seat, we got the same drink and the same popcorn, expecting the same outcome, which is the sentence not to fit if he is convicted. >> maya? >> yes, i really think the important thing here is exactly that, is tearing you the floor and fixing the pipes. here's the thing that's so important about what congress is trying to do. it's trying to say, one, you have to know what you're supposed to do th

. >> maya wiley, after everything we've seen over the past week and a half, the marches, the protests, do you think we're at a point now where we're going to see some real change, specifically regarding policing in our country? are we at that moment? >> we're certainly at the moment where we have seen some meaningful reforms, meaningful in the sense that before this senseless and brutal killing of george floyd and ahmaud arberyb garner and so many others, the politics of fear and fearmongering in many instances that we heard from police unions, that fear has been partially broken down by the hundreds of thousands of people who have poured into the streets for two weeks. and those reforms we were struggling for a year ago. that has meaning. things like, the police in new york city can't hide disciplinary records. that means decisions like in los angeles and in minneapolis to take funding from the police departments to put them in the communities that have been overpoliced. i think what we still do not know is whether the transformation will be much deeper and much more meaningful, a ki

also with us is maya wiley, former assistant u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, a veteran of the new york city mayor's office, now with the new school here in new york. and, maya, i'd like to begin with you and press you into further service for this network. you were with us for our live coverage of that very sad service in minneapolis today. and in the intervening few hours since i spoke to you last, you've been out in one of the protests tonight. tell us about what's happening in the streets. >> thank you, brian. it was wonderful to spend that time with you today at such an important moment, and it was really important to be with demonstrators in the street, in new york city tonight, the night of that funeral, the night after we heard our reverend al, our new yorker, call on us to continue to push for justice. and what i saw were certainly protesters who were committed, who were vigilant, who were calling to the police, saying we're peaceful. why are you wearing riot gear? it was peaceful. the police were peaceful

it's time to turn the page. >> marc morial and maya wiley and eugene robinson, thank you all so much. >>> and as we continue, as the nation has exploded in anger and sporadic violence over the brutal death of george floyd, there has been an unprecedented lack of presidential leadership. we've touched on that. and now, let's drill deeper into it, because in fact, a few republican allies of the president's have joined critics in suggesting that president trump's tweets and his failure to appeal for unity have exacerbated the crisis. on friday night, as hundreds of protesters outside the gates of the white house were then joined by others after nightfall, throwing bricks and bottles, the secret service took the unusual step of rushing the president to an underground bunker, a bunker previously used for vice president cheney on 9/11. we are told that president trump was returned to the residence within an hour. joining me now are peter baker, chief white house correspondent for "the new york times," and yamiche alcindor, white house correspondent for pbs news hour. thank you to you both.

i want to bring in maya wiley, former assistant u.s. attorney in the southern district of civil rights decisions. she's obviously well positioned to address this issue head on for us. maya, i appreciate your expertise on this right now. walk us through this. when it comes to no knock warrants, how widespread is this as an issue nationwide, and would a ban on it have a significant impact in cases of police brutality? >> it's a really important question and it's a widespread practice. very hard to get data on it. but let's start with the fact that it is an important shift because people die. people die because of no knock warrants. breonna taylor's death shows us that. but there's even statistics to bear that out. in fact. one researcher found that between -- over about a six-year period, 94 people were killed as a result of no-knock warrants. one example was a toddler in georgia in 2014. police burst into the home and threw a grenade into the toddler's play pen on a no-knock warrant. that child fortunately survived but was in a coma. that

he joins me with maya wiley. congressman, explain your views on this. >> well, the call that i made last night was for our troops to be prepared to disobey the unlawful orders of our commander in chief, because that's where i see this heading. trump has used and abused the military in the past to push his political agenda, and the fact that he has in a tweet called for troops to shoot on civilians, the fact that he has now called for using our active duty military to suppress dissent at home among peaceful law-abiding americans is called for every young man and woman in uniform to remember that their oath is to the constitution, and those interest principles that they have to uphold. >> given your service, i think people know what you've been willing to do in the past here. so you take these issues extremely seriously. how do you also balance against overreacting to donald trump saying and threatening so many things, just like during the start of the virus when he said he would do things that he didn't have the p

single state in the entire country now having walked through the breakdown, i want to bring in maya wileyvil prosecutor. she worked for the mayor of new york city and was chair of the new york civilian complaint board which provides independent police oversight of nypd. maya, that makes you not only an old friend of beet, but substantively, quite perfect guest for these challenging topics. good to see you. >> god to owe see you, ari. >> can you think of a felony murder conviction that's ever been won against an officer and if not, how do you think this will work and apply here? >> well, i don't know of one. i can't say there's never been one. but i think you said it well. look, the felony underneath this is aggravated assault. that's what we heard from the attorney general essentially. and what we see is certainly an easier to prove the aggregated assault, you intend that and then the murder happens on top of that, then the other officers, because they had reason to know that this was going to possibly result in death and then results in death, you participate in it physically, and you pa

joining our conversation, university professor at the new school, maya wiley. ve been dying to ask you what you think about this whole conversation. and if we're getting it wrong in the way we're covering it. i count on you for the brutal truth. >> you know, i count on you for the great questions, nicole. and here's the thing the reason, as you said earlier, that more people are showing up every day to protest, the reason we are in week two, the reason that we are seeing a multi-racial, even multi-generational set of protests is because policing is fundamentally broken in this country. it's broken. or maybe it's not broken, it's just working exactly how it's supposed to. and the point about what people are demanding is, then break it. then make it different. meaning, not end safety, but make it vastly different. and i think this is part of what we can do a better job of in discussing in the coverage that it is about justice for george floyd, of course, but that people are demanding something much larger and much more transformative. and it goes straight to the h

. >> joining us now, msnbc legal analyst who worked with the sdny civil division, maya wiley and eugeneon. great to have you both here. maya, not the first time the president has threatened protesters or taken action against protesters or referred to protesters in incendiary language calling them hoodlums. what do you make of what we just heard? >> maya, are you not hearing me? eugene, hopefully you heard that question. what do you make about what we just heard? >> well, it sounds to me like president trump playing to his base, trying to adopt the law and order position. not so much the way richard nixon ran his campaign in 1968 but the way george wallace ran his to go to sort of that extreme. they're all hoodlums. no sort of attempt to reckon with the history that some of these statues, particularly the confederate monuments glorify. no attempt to understand why people are still in the streets after george floyd's death. none of that. just, you know, flat out trying to throw red meat to the base and see if this is something that catches on. and he's out there looking for a spark. he's

we're joined for our coverage by msnbc legal analyst maya wiley and mark claxton and neal katyal. first on the all, some of the most interesting things he said there was at the end, all the benefit, i've learned this from my colleagues of getting that one last question in, he leaned in and said these cases have been underprosecuted. your thoughts on that comment? and what does that mean for these four cases? >> these cases have been generally underprosecuted. i think he's exactly right and at a sad moment in time, news today -- the underprosecution in this case, they charged officer chauvin third degree murder. today, those charges were upgraded to second degree murder. second degree is a much more serious offense. up to 40 years in prison for it. third degree murder, those charges were very vulnerable, likely to be tossed out, the defense in minnesota to third degree murder is bizarrely -- i intended to harm this specific victim not randomly intended harm in general, that's a defense, the third degree murder. the second degree murder captures this. the charges of the other three,

maya wiley, what are the legal repercussions here? what are the tools?rom experience it can be difficult to prosecute these cases against police officers. what protections do they have that perhaps the country should start talking about changing? >> that's an excellent question, kasie, because it depends on where you are. in new york city we have a civilian complaint review board. i actually chaired it. the thing about civilian oversight is it gives the public an opportunity to come to a civilian agency and say something happened to me that violates the law, police policy or even rude, bad behavior. that has been important because then you have data that shows patterns of complaint and where they are coming from and what kinds of complaint. police departments themselves have their own ability to receive complaints. but in far too many cities there is either no civilian oversight or no sufficient transparency into what those complaints are and what the police do with them. one of the ropes we see so many people protesting across the country is for far too

maya wiley and dave aronberg, thank you both for your perspective. let's turn to u.s. national editor at the "financial times," ed luce, who is asking in his latest op-ed, out moments ago, how things could go so very wrong in america. he writes, the cue is to view these through the lenses of reality television. mr. trump wants people to believe the white house is threatened by thugs, looters, and killers, words he's used frequently in the last few days. u.s. stability is under threat, he claims. the president's life and those of decent law-abiding americans are threatened by those on the streets. that's the gist of mr. trump's message. it requires a backdrop, the hyped up situation in washington. a sober assessment is that mr. trump's poll numbers are dropping. he is faced with triple cocktail of a badly managed pandemic, the worst economic contraction since the great depression, and an inability to quell the legitimate anger behind america's demonstrations. theesz are the acti these are the actions and inactions of someone with little interest in gorch iverning. mr. t

maya wiley, former assistant u.s. attorney in the southern district of new york.r counsel to the mayor of new york city. and chairman for center of african-american studies at princeton university and joy reid, host of our broadcast, "a.m. joy." joy, i'd like to begin with you. normally a memorial service absolutely a celebration of life. but normally intensely private. it is for friends and loved ones. this being televised nationwide. the advantage of, of course, the educational role it will play in instructing people about the life of george floyd. >> yeah. and you know, we can't forget that this is also taking place during a pandemic when these kind of gatherings are the thing that has been slive been essent forbidden. so it is striking to see that choir and to see this memorial service that is so familiar in the black church, this black church experience that's being allowed to happen. it sort of has to happen because of the way that george floyd died. you know, these events are hard. you know, i've sat through these for sandra bland and sat through these for

. >>> when it comes to the debate over police reform on capitol hill, maya wiley summed it up best.rites, quote, democrats and republicans agree that police misconduct should be better tracked, but the agreement appears to end there. on thursday house democrats approved a sweeping police reform package that would ban choke holds and no-knock warrants but republicans say that bill has no chance of passing the senate and the white house has threatened a veto. that legislation was approved one day after senate democrats blocked a gop-sponsored reform bill that would, quote, encourage police departments to revise their practice, not mandate any changes. they blocked a bill to encourage police to do a better job. joining me now, joyce vance, professor at alabama school of law and msnbc contributor. jill, thank you for being with us. i'm always fascinated by the low hanging fruit we can't get down, right? with daca, with basic gun laws, the stuff that an overwhelming number of americans support, but we can't get past even the basics on this one. i want to put up for our viewers the differ

. >> let's bring in maya wiley who worked in the civil division of the u.s.ttorney's office in the southern district of new york. she's a longtime civil rights activist. the buffalo police department claimed that the man tripped and fell, that clearly did not happen. i got to ask you, if these incidents were not being recorded, were not being filmed, you have to think of how many of them would just completely go unnoticed. what is the next step in accountability here look like? >> good to be with you, ayman. i wish we could have a happier topic. it depends. i actually don't know what the complaint process is in buffalo. i will tell you that first of all this point to a problem that has been sufficiently significant that in new york city we just passed a referendum that enabled our civilian oversight to charge lying as police misconduct. there's a perception in the public that because police are law enforcement, they don't lie. and unfortunately we have too many cases where we can't -- we weren't empowered to actually say that part of the misconduct was police

. >> all right, maya wiley and betsy woodruff swan, thank you for being with us. >>> what impact is black matter and the protest going to have on the upcoming election tomorrow? we've got two very interesting tests. if black lives matter is having a big effect on democratic party politics. that's coming up next. this is an athlete, twenty reps deep, sprinting past every leak in our softest, smoothest fabric. she's confident, protected, her strength respected. depend. the only thing stronger than us, is you. ♪ you know limu,g after all these years she's confident, protected, her strength respected. it's the ones that got away that haunt me the most. [ squawks ] 'cause you're not like everybody else. that's why liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. what? oh, i said... uh, this is my floor. nooo! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ and its mission is to make sleep...feel...cool. so, no more night sweats. no more nocturnal baking, or polar ice cap air-conditioner mode. because the tempur-pedic breeze° delivers superior

. >> joining us now maya wiley and dave aaronberg. by the information revealed yesterday in that news conference that after brooks was shot twice in the back, there was a failure to give him medical assistance, along with, apparently, images on video footage of the officers kicking him and standing on his lifeless body. i cannot think of one thing that would explain that act, except hatred or racism or just a complete disregard for humanity. >> all of the above, mika. all of the above. i think what was so important about the charges that we heard yesterday is a real signal to the people of atlanta, as well as the american public that law enforcement can't be lawless. and the charges, you know, including felony murder, mean to the -- we saw district attorney saying we are going to bring every count we possibly can against these police officers because they did grievous wrong. not just wrong. remember that in this -- in the conference what he also made clear was, that third shot -- remember, there were three shots, two of them hit mr. b

joining us, msnbc legal analyst who worked with the sdny, maya wiley and former top state department ficial, rick spengle. maya, mayor bottoms saying that she was signing an administrative order that would take their grievances and solutions and she said this wasn't just for atlanta, she hoped it would become a model for the nation. she has, to me, emerged as a real nation figure, very aware of this moment, not just in her city, but in her country. >> absolutely. and we're seeing black women who are mayors of major cities around this country leading the conversation about transformation, from london in san francisco to lori lightfoot in chicago, muriel boor muriel d.c. it's a struggle to move from tinkering to transformation. because the pain we heard from the family is a pain that resonates deeply now and fortunately, not just within the black community, but within the why white community. it is a painful loss when we see these videos and recognize that people are dying. but they're not just dying, they're also being overpoliced. so, what's so important is that she is both putting to

that absolutely should be, certainly, something concerned about, based on the data we see. >> maya wileyyou very, very much for being on this morning. >> thank you. we were having a little connection there, but glad we were able to finish that. maya is so right. not only did the president and the attorney general not bring up the 98%, the neo-nazis, the white supremacists, you can go back to charlotte in 2017. that's where the president, after a cursory dismissal, then talked about how there were good people on both sides of that protest. >> yeah. >> of course, the an anti anti-trump squad came out immediately and tried to defend the president. their defense sort of fell on deaf ears when it came to david duke, the former class m eer ce after charlottesville, thanked president trump for being on their side. >> the comment, what do you have to lose, that he made after the campaign. >>> up next, it is tough to see 6 feet apart in the middle of a protest. did you see that? we'll talk about the health risks associated with these mass demonstrations amid the covid-19 pandemic. the first and o

legal analysts for nbc news and msnbc maya wiley and dave aronberg still with us. a lot yesterday on instagram live, those words you find to be pretty severe, but where does it go from here? >> those words were extremely severe. i have to say, i don't think i have ever read a brief that so blatantly called the justice department liars, because that's what the brief does over and over and over again. where it goes from here, is the judge obviously has to wait to hear from the other side and he will make a decision whether or not he'll agree to dismiss. one of the most interesting things to me about this is judge sullivan actually asked mr. gleeson should i go a step further, should i also hold michael flynn in criminal contempt for perjury, which gives him the ability as the judge essentially to put flynn in jail. actually what he says is, don't do that, don't do that. just go after him. even though he perjured himself again in this proceeding about dropping these charges. but use that in sentencing to increase his sentence. >> yeah, so michael steele, i know you ha

let's bring into the conversation legal analyst for msnbc, maya wiley. good to see you again.he president has this executive order, it does not get to most of the concerns that we've heard from activists in the streets and democrats in the house and some republican senators across the aisle. what do you see coming out of all this? we have the president talking about law and order but you have democrats serious about banning things like chokeholds and no-knock warrants and tim scott and other republican senators, even mitch mcconnell, saying he wants to get something done on police reform before the july 4th recess. what do you see in total coming out of this? >> in total i see coming out of this nothing sufficient to address the fundamental problem of policing in the united states. and i say that, one, because we have a president who keeps reinforcing a fear mongering about the need for law enforcement. we saw him do this when he ran for president, the suggestion that there was just rampant violent crime across communities of color and that people of color were constantly comm

. >> back with me are david jolly, maya wiley and david corn. door prize of getting to respond to that, david. >> well, you know, making light of this, it was a light moment for donald trump, we have 120,000 dead americans because of the pandemic, we are heading towards 200,000. he won't talk, he won't mention a victim when he discusses this. it's about china, china, china. it's horrific. i don't know what it takes to get more outrageous. we have been on the show for years talking about his offensive remarks. it's hard to think of anything more dumb and offensive and horrific than have the president of the united states making light, making a joke if that's what it was -- not sure it was -- about 120,000 americans dieing on his watch. what else do we need to know about this man? >> yeah. it's weird, according to john bolton's book -- which i hope everyone will get at the library rather than paying money for it. he says that donald trump begged that same country, china, who his trade guy is accusing of a conspiracy to send people here to infect a

. >> and joining me now maya wiley, nbc legal analyst, professor at the new school.re's some disturbing aspects of it. first of all, the charges. what do you make of those? >> well, i honestly have not had time to review the charges themselves. i think there's no question that charges are appropriate based on what we saw in that video, that looked like an aggravated assault. it was uncalled for. it apparently this gentleman at least just by virtue of what you can see in the video was doing nothing to suggest that he was either a danger to public safety or the police officers themselves or that he had any intention of failing to or refusing to comply with directions. >> you know what, maya, as we've been speaking i've just gotten an update. apparently these two officers were charged with second degree assault. it is a felony, both have pleaded not guilty. they are released without bail. they are scheduled to return to court on july 20 for a felony hearing. something else we're told for those, one of my writers watching the live event as those two police officers went

. >> yamiche, a point our mutual friend maya wiley brought up has to do with optics and in many waysacking for any substance in this argument, also optics have never been so important, because the protest movement in its 22nd day in these streets of our cities and towns is a kaleidoscopic move of american life, all encompassing. maya was making the point that this event lacked those opt ix, it's also clear that the president is going to test-drive just how many voters are attracted to the law and order label and he was hardly speaking in code, telling them more people care about it than may even know themselves. >> that's right, you could see in the rose garden that the president as he was even rolling out this executive order, which is one of the most sweeping things that he's done in his presidency in terms of policing. he was still trying to make sure that he was placating and winking to his base and making sure people understood that he's still wanting to be that law and order president. in talking to the brother of a man who died mysteriously in that pennsylvania prison who met

. >> chuck, joining us now is msnbc legal analyst maya wiley. really great to you have today. know we're waiting on the charges to be announced for the three other officers. run through what might be on the table. >> good to be with you, katy. you know, what might be on the table is aiding and abetting. that means that the other officers -- two elements, the other officers helped, supported, were complicit in the death of mr. george floyd in a way that is intentional and intentional here means, one, that you knew this was happening. you know, that this murder was in process. and that you then intended to help. in this case, helping means not helping mr. george. but it goes a little further that that. . i think paul talked about this earlier. you know, the question here is how they will lay out the specific role that each individual officer played. as we know, we've seen the video where two of the officers are physically holding mr. george down as well and at least one appears to have pressure on his back. we know from the autopsy report that the family commissioned that those

joining us now is maya wiley and attorney dave aaronberg.the defense used by two police officers is they were rookies and just following orders. how will that play out in court? >> well, let's first start with the court of public opinion, which is there are no orders that say you can murder a man that you have in handcuffs laying prone on the street who has done nothing to endanger your life. so the call for this is going to be very sharp from the public standpoint. from the legal standpoint, the primary issue is are there facts to show they were really supporting what was happening. by supporting, there's specific kinds of evidence, like the fact that two of them were helping to -- literally to hold mr. floyd down. they were not just standing around wondering what to do, they were participating physically. and the second is the length of time and the fact that one of the officers goes and checks for a pulse, says he doesn't feel one, and officer chauvin's knee remains on george floyd's neck for two more minutes after no pulse, and not one o