i think he and mcveigh were good friends. he talked very calmly about mcveigh. he had this incredible memory of their every interaction, which suggested to me that it wasn't just 10 minutes at a gun show in 1993. it was a relationship that went on for much longer than that. the impression i got is here he was, his father was a prominent politician in germany. he had a fascinating background, which i dug into. he spent a lot of time in israel. he was put on patrolling and went on hikes with the israeli army. he was the architect of the 1982 invasion of lebanon. he has remarkable access to high-level people. he had some kind of -- intelligence related connection going. he came to united states. one of the first people he contacted was a cia officer by the name of the trustee, who according to murrah federal building he was hoping to get a job when george bush was defeated, he didn't do the job. it all fell through. everything i found out was falling apart at that point. he became listless, he didn't want to do. he showed no interest in getting a job board leaving

it was not made by timothy mcveigh. timothy mcveigh was in the army sure. he and my second son rescission together at fort riley kansas. they did not make bombs. they also went to the persian gulf together. terry nichols wrote me and told me that bond that he told me to not blow up the federal building be as they to know how to make bombs. it was real lumpy. there are a lot of things that seemed like nobody wants to talk about. >> okay. let me address one are two of those things. you know, i think a lot of rumors have been circulated. i think a lot of troubling and some of information are out there, and that think it is very important to try to distinguish fact from fiction. it is absolutely true that terry nichols has written. he wrote this to us as well. he wants to believe the bomb that the bill with mcveigh was not the one that blew up the

mcveigh -- i didn't care to be part of it. >> what are your thoughts on them synod d them today? >> i think they are guilty. i think there are theories whether they had others involved or not. i don't think there was any widespread conspiracy. i think through everything that i saw in the trial that they convicted the right two people, and mcveigh was the principle and nichols was the assistant or helper you might say. one of the good things that it did which is create i think a lot of the kind of anti-government folks, underground militias and so forth who were fighting the government and anti-government and everything, i think that it caused the people to take a little more serious look at how potentially dangerous some of those groups could be. and you didn't hear much about them for a while. i have some concern that there's the new kind of growth of some of this anti-government feeling which the government is you know, certainly the government's big, it makes hearsay takes, we don't agree with a lot of our officials but it's still us. and once we start trying to destroy our ow

i think he and mcveigh were extremely good friends. he talked very fondly about mcveigh. he have this incredible memory of their every interaction which suggest to me it wasn't just 10 minutes at the gun show in 1993 but a relationship that went on for quite longer than that. and the impression i got is harry was. his father was a prominent politician in germany. yet a fascinating background which i dug into which had not been previously known that he spent a lot of time in israel. he was put on patrolling duties near the goal line heights with the israeli army. he met general rafael who was the architect of the 1982 invasion of lebanon. he has remarkable access to all kinds of high-level people. he goes back to germany and you still in the german army at that stage doing intelligence work. just that itself concerns me. it seems he had some kind of you know, intelligence related connection going. he comes to the kent in the one of the first people he contacts is a cia operative by the name of vince petroski who according to strausmeier was interested in hiring him to be l

part of the motivation for timothy mcveigh to blow up the federal building in oklahoma clearly, clearly came from him drawing on the apocalyptic myth. how that works is instead of the antichrist being some demonic religious being, the antichrist for timothy mcveigh, militia groups, patriot groups, white supremacist groups, that's the united states government. and their idea is the antichrist is the attempt for the united states government to bypass the constitution and take away their rights. so what does he do? a dangerous thing in the secular apocalyptic theodicy- he says, "i can bring on armageddon, because after armageddon becomes paradise. i'll survive it, so i'll initiate it. how will i initiate it? i strike at the belly of the beast." and so he puts that bomb in the truck outside the building, and hundreds of innocent people die- who may or may not have believed in the apocalyptic myth, but armageddon came to them that day. >> see, this is an incredibly complex set of ideas that we're mixing together, but you know, you can begin to get the feel here, that okay, a religious apocal

>>greg: all they have is mcveigh.>bob: mcveigh and that crowd are around carrying their guns and their soldiers, frustrated former ... something. >>greg: that is all you have. >> wasn't that before the patriot act? kimberly: it was and the way they caught these guy was gathering intelligence and the guys got the target list. that is grandly. nonviolent protesters. >>greg: younger people tend to do dumb are things because as you get older you get wisdom. but at least you have to know the guy in the mailroom is not a 1 percenters, sending him a powder ruins his life. the average age in the tea party movement is 60. >>greg: we are --. kimberly: bob is unbelievable. >>greg: how come, in seattle, with the buildings being under attack county how come the people do not defend the building? why can't you shoot a looter? can you? kimberly: depending on the level of threat and the laws of the state whether you are --. bob been you are going to shoot a looter? >>greg: definitely. someone coming in and taking your stuff, you shot

that attack execute by timothy mcveigh and terry nichols killed 168 people. mr. gumbel's research with the assistance of his co-author, roger charles, includes views of government documents, the correspondent with terry nichols, and over 150 interviews with individuals ranging from the prosecution and defense team to members of the radical right and law enforcement officials. >> thank you for coming to full circle bookstore this season. we do appreciate the fact that we have such great support. where the oldest a large independent bookstore in oklahoma city but admits a great deal for us to be able to present author andrew gumbel. >> thank you so much a plot but. >> thank you all for coming tonight. this is a very tough subject to normal when you do to book tours you go to different cities can you talk about connections the place as with whatever you britain about the this is a rather special place in this context and uncertain not here to tell you your own story of what happened in this city 17 years ago, because i'm sure you know it much better than i ever will

tell them if i conclude that there is somebody else involved, well, i concluded that it was only mcveigh and nichols. that perhaps took six months also. that's all i did for six months. i didn't practice law because that was a huge, huge amounts of interviewing people, some of the victim's interviewing. the book was not about the victims but interviewing other fbi agents participated in the investigation, even interviewing some of the lawyers who represented some of the defendants. this is my basic, what i call might 18 library. if i am writing a book in this room there is hardly any oklahoma history questions that i can't find the answer to in here. for example, we had a very famous governor back in the 1930's. he was quite a character. well, bill murray broke a four volume set of oklahoma history, or as he calls it memoirs of governor murray and the true history of oklahoma. if i'm riding -- for example, last year wrote a history of our constitutional convention the territory we had a constitutional convention. bill murray was the chairman of that constitutional convention. often in wr

i don't know if they represent me more than timothy mcveigh represents your side. is that fair?d laud them early on. >> kimberly: nobody supported timothy mcveigh, bob. >> bob: i don't think he represents conservatives. he's a fringe like these people. but you associate it with evening on the left. >> greg: the beauty is the media does. they romanticize this. saying this is the new mov movement. now they're scum and running away. >> dana: people of the year. time magazine. >> bob: we are not running away from the message, even unfair system rewarding people at top. >> greg: coming up, over 40 catholic groups filed lawsuit over obamacare on religious freedom ground. details are next. if you leave now, dana will crush another butterfly with her cold, heartless hand. ♪ ♪ another cup of coffee? how long is this one going to last? forty-five minutes? an hour? well... listen. 5-hour energy lasts a whole lot of hours. take one in the afternoon, and you'll feel alert and energized 'til the cows come home. it's packed with b-vitamins and nutrients to make it last. so what's it going to b

i don't know if they represent me more than timothy mcveigh represents your side. is that fair?d them early on. >> kimberly: nobody supported timothy mcveigh, bob. >> bob: i don't think he represents conservatives. he's a fringe like these people. but you associate it with evening on the left. >> greg: the beauty is the media does. they romanticize this. saying this is the new mov movement. now they're scum and running away. >> dana: people of the year. time magazine. >> bob: we are not running away from the message, even unfair system rewarding people at top. >> greg: coming up, over 40 catholic groups filed lawsuit over obamacare on religious freedom ground. details are next. if you leave now, dana will crush another butterfly with her cold, heartless hand. ♪ ♪ g. every bite goes above and beyond the call of deliciousness. that's a big 10-4 kosher. with no fillers, by-products, artificial flavors or colors. hebrew national. the better-than-a-hot dog- hot dog. >> eric: welcome back, everybody. catholic church, 40 groups suing the obama administration for the federal mandate ove

communicate with our citizens for example the whole open government initiative that was headed by mr mcveigh when he was. the president of russia there was about this this issue so how we could use this technology how we could use this . new media and this these new challenges to. to change the way we communicate with the citizens what about the elec trying to mock i think the so-called new democracy t.v. believe in it i mean and if yes then if russia in its present. ready for something like that i do believe in even more chrissy but democracy sometimes it's so much focused on totally electronic elections i think that democracy is. why the concept and we don't have just to think about electronic election that could be somehow done with i don't know issuing electronic digital signatures to every every citizen or using our mobile phones i think the democracy is more about influencing particular government. decisions is about trying to find and state some priority issues i believe that we could introduce some kind of a federal level regulation on that so that. every every single government inst

i just said mitt romney is just like tim mcveigh in every way. thought i would stir things up a little bit. sometimes i like to poke the right-wing hornet's nest with a stick. >> huh? >> what did stephanie miller just say? >> mitt romney is exactly like tim mcveigh and hitler -- >> in every way. >> so i stopped there to there could be a clean edit. [ applause ] >> all right. yes, it was a holiday weekend, the president on memorial day yesterday. >> for the first time in nine years americans are not fighting and dying in iraq. [ applause ] >> we are winding down the war in afghanistan and our troops will continue to come home. >> that's the best thing we can do for soldiers is stop sending them into wars unnecessary in particular. >> for all of you who carry a heavy burden on your heart, we can make it a point of understanding as americans. came home and sometimes we're denigrated when you should have been celebrated. it was a national shame, a disgrace, it should never happen. that's why here today we resolve that it will not happen again. >> i h

trust me, there are more people who look like timothy mcveigh driving through the streeted of arizona than like salso, and we're not getting stopped. we see paper selection process of people being brown, especially wearing a straw hat. say nothing about the rule of law. one final story, rosa is 14 years old, i met her when we were speaking together. she came up to me-before i spoke and said, pastor, will you please pray for me? the sheriff's deputies came and took my father and mother from our home today. afterwards i talked to her, she's 14 years old. she told me the father of her story, armando, he grew up in the southwest part of mexico and recruited to come in the late '80s to the border to work in the plants there. international companies from china, australia, korea, the united states, recruited, 300,000 people to live without electricity, without water. they worked for 32 pesos a day when they first got up there. remember, nafta devalued the peso in half twice. so after a couple of years they were earning eight pesos a day, which at that time was ten pesos to a dollar. they wor

or to time to gave information to a perfectly legal route will make it out to be the next timothy mcveigh now the government is basically saying here is stop asking questions about shady corporate practices or prepare to suffer the consequences take for example the story of andy's to pani and we spoke to him last year about his activism and how it landed him in an isolation unit at a jail in illinois. i ended up in one of these units because it was legislated and convicted underneath an overly broad law called the animal enterprise protection act in two thousand and six the law the animal enterprise protection act was amended to be called the animal enterprise terrorism statute the animal enterprise terrorism act is a law that says that if you inflict financial damage or an economic disruption or physical disruption on a enterprise that uses animals for profit you could be charged as a terrorist now after nine eleven. now the animal enterprise act and he talks about well that was a piece of model legislation written by the american legislative exchange council the controversial right wing

i'll try to make the case that, though it's not religious, what's motivating someone like a timothy mcveigh, the unabomber, or the person that blew up the abortion clinic in atlanta or maybe set off the bombs at the olympics may well be driven by that. but we have a wonderful - a little bit longer, about eight minute further interview with rebecca in which she comes out and answers some of the questions we're raising, in a way that i have never heard before. in particular, keep in mind as she talks about this, our "belief of believers equals behavior" - your $64,000 question: who's the victim? wow. let's take the words from rebecca on this. >> what exactly did the people's temple adherents believe in? >> well, people's temple was affiliated with the disciples of christ denomination, and certainly began as a christian group, or within traditional christian belief systems and structures. however, it had an interest and commitment to racial justice and equality, beginning in indianapolis in the 1950s, continuing on into a move into california in the 1960s, and into expansion within the inner c

notice that it's just it's a person it's a personality thing in the west he's seen as harsher than mcveigh defense specially on foreign policy which could prove to be a challenge on issues like the reset with the u.s. and pushes for intervention in the middle east. just but on the economic front analysts have already made sense to change at least three key issues w.t.r. entry privatization investment climate reform we see. putin changing his. emphasis and direction on particular issues in a way which corresponds with a political shift a shift that is most evident on the web russians have never been more active in politics more than logs twitter facebook or something putin will have to embrace if he wants to stay in touch yes to participate otherwise you'd be excluded and you don't have the other russia which talks its own language and the president will talk his language leaving the question now that he's back can put him through forward this time hell have six years to try to deliver on reforms and change which could make or break putin's presidency and he's now a r.t. moscow. marcus papa

controversy arose over the sculptor william mcveigh's depiction of the wartime minister, not because of his defiantly stance and the right hand raise and the trademark "v" for victory salute. it was the other churchill icon, the cigar in his left hand, that offended some of the english-speaking union, the organization responsible for the sculptor. in the end authenticity and the cigar won out. unveiled a year after churchill's death in 1965, the figure seems even larger than its 9-foot dimensions would indicate. almost half a century on, winston churchill still manages to dominate his surroundings. >> by the way, i can not help but reflecting that if my father had been american and my mother british, instead of the other way around, i might have got here on my own. [ laughter ] >>> why do we study first ladies? that was the question posed and answered at a conference titled "america's first ladies, an enduring vision." the conference was the second of three planned at presidential libraries in texas and was convened at the george w. bush presidential center in dallas. over the next h

tendency in the united states is if they see white male in gauging in a terrorist plot mentioned timothy mcveigh or the you know bomber or the like the public tends to say ok this is one individual who is a bad actor and that does not anyway shed light on how other white males or christians are portraying or are that is not the case with muslims so i think was going to be interesting is how the public whether the public is skeptical or why they're it accepted at face value that ok they're accused of terrorism so they must be terror and and we won't question a government motives or this dubious use of is dubious informant well a couple things about what you said are first of all when this case first happened when it first came out. it was very difficult to find anyone on in the media call any of these guys terrorists you know or even there's a terrorist plot and i wonder if the color of their skin may have had something to do with that but it's really interesting when you do see something like this would be agency involved whether it's the f.b.i. or the cia they almost always make the case that t

books written about foreign involvement and air connections, i concluded that it was only timothy mcveigh and nichols. that took six months, also. that's all i did for six months. i did not practice law assembly because that was a huge, huge amount of interviewing people. some of the victims, interviewing -- the book is not about the victims, but interviewing other fbi agents who participated in the investigation, even interviewing some of the lawyers who represented some of the defendants. this is my basic -- what i call my a team library. if i am writing a book, there is hardly any oklahoma history question that i can't find the answer to hear. for example, we had a very famous governor back in the 1930s named alfalfa bill murray. he was quite a character. well, bill murray wrote a history, or as he calls it, memoirs of governor murray and the true history of oklahoma. lester, i wrote about our constitutional convention. bill murray was the chairman of the constitutional convention. often, in writing that book, i would have to come to his history to see what his words were. there are so

applause] [applause] oklahoma city is known for the 1995 attack of of the mara building by timothy mcveigh. booktv this is the city to share the local literary culture of the area. >> my name is joe and ann i am the african curator of the john and mary nichols rare books and special collections at the university of oklahoma. this is a wonderful collection that was named in honor of john and mary nichols on behalf of a longtime service to the university university and the library. and with the generous support we were able to establish this fourth of several special collections on the campus at the university of oklahoma. what i found as i brought up some books for the collection which is coming up to about 13,000 books. the collection itself highlights and has important work in british-american european literature from the 16 centuries to the present and what i have shown you here are some of the most beloved authors of the english language, written and english and american. one of the core parts of the question is the dickens collection which is really remarkable. we have first editions o