why is metadata so important? it offers that inconsistency for more accurate than predictive analyses of who we are, what we've done and what we are likely to do. during one phone call to a credit customer service line with the content may suggest a problem in the recent billing cycle. repeated calls in single cause at the city cannot add at stanford university found that metadata is unambiguously sensitive even alike did on 500 people for a few months. scientists are able to encourage the commission based on meta-data. they spoke at length with cardiologist at a major medical center talked for a short time at the laboratories received calls from a pharmacy for a medical device used to monitor cardiac arrhythmia. another individual called a firearm source for the semi automatic rifle before customer service for a manufacturer that produces a line. one person telephoned and you have to wonder. they did know they were in the study. they went to a home improvement store. a hydroponic sealer to head shop. i'm from cal

as i understand it, the metadata becomes part of the disagreement in the metadata, we can talk and 20ople all about bit about what metadata is emma basically uses information to them help you target where you need it to be looking more specifically for communications involving potential terrorist, correct? >> guest: metadata is not content collection. if you take your telephone bill, some people still get telephone bills, no less the calls he made and the phone numbers of youth called at the date and time, that is considered metadata. the supreme court has said that there is no reasonable expectation of privacy and metadata. it's not protected by the fourth amendment. there's no constitutional issue. the question was whether not in a collection of metadata are you violating a statute, in this case, the foreign intelligence surveillance act, which how certain communications can be captured, collected by the cover. that was the source of the dispute between the white house and the department of justice. i might mention, this is a very important point, the dispute centered over an activi

metadata has to be stored for three years. the idea is that this, in addition to that, all encryption company must provide encryption keys to the government again, without any warrants, anonymous accounts are impossible if a provider or provider is obligated to terminate an account of a person cannot be identified through the account. and nullifies privacy completely. so it just goes for the population instead of organized informal groups. but the implication of that set of provisions is is huge. it also, one of the things that we think about is that when one country adopts a set of rules you can expect others to as well. in the sphere of internet the idea that some companies may start providing backdoors or somehow breaking encryption, what i should say about it is also the technical requirements are kind of ridiculous. there is not a lot. if it's end-to-end encryption it's probably not impossible to break. but the direction of this is very dangerous because if it is accepted in one place they can become accepted in another.

metadata has to be stored for three years. that this, in addition to that all encryption, company must provide encryption keys to the government again, without any warrants, anonymous accounts are impossible if a provider or provider is obligated to terminate an account if a person cannot be identified through the account. it nullifies privacy completely. so, it doesn't -- it just goes after the entire population as opposed to organized or informal groups but the implication of , that set of provisions is is is huge. it also, one of the things that we think about is that when one country adopts a set of rules , you can expect others to as well. in the sphere of internet the idea that some companies may start providing backdoors or somehow breaking encryption, what i should say about it is also the technical requirements are, kind of ridiculous. there is not a lot. if it's end-to-end encryption it's probably not impossible to , -- not possible to break. but the direction of this is very dangerous because if it is accepted in on

the metadata is the time involved and the parties the phone call.hone call. so if we get a suspicious number, we can run the suspicious number against the database to find out if it has calls for was called by someone who called them. and then build a database. >> you have to make a specific request of the provider, like very rise soften or anybody else, and say we need all of the met metadata on a number. when you get a corresponding number within the metadata they're looking at. >> so what we need to rethink some of the tools we have given up because this problem is not going away. >>> still ahead with this week's terror arrest, and this week's poh tests in charlotte, we need to have a law and order debate. so which candidate will be better for keeping america safe? joey run and get a cookie, ok? let me see it today. this is what it can be like to have shingles. a painful blistering rash. oh! mom. if you had chickenpox the shingles virus is already inside you. one in three people will get shingles in their lifetime. grandma, want to play? maybe la

the supreme court said there is no privacy in metadata.there is no constitutional issue and whether or not are you violating a statute in the foreign intelligence surveillance act that outlines how certain electronic communications can be captured and can be collected by the government and that was the choice between the white house and the department of justice. i might mention this is a very important point. we were walking along and doing fine and then in march of 2004 he gets ill and goes to the hospital. the program is free authorized by the president every 45 days or so and in connection with wih that reauthorization is a signature by the attorney general saying there is no legal impediment to moving forward in the program and so, the program is about to expire. we are coming up on this 45 day window and the general becomes sick so the duties with respect to the department of justice and the authorization in the program going forward calls to the deputy attorney. >> at this time that people at the office of legal counsel who had diff

one is metadata as mentioned here and the other is irony. during the last week for those who read a hard copy of the newspaper, the "washington post," for example, there was an ad that was sponsored in part at least by the aclu requesting that snowden be pardoned for this activities. it seems ironic now that what is going on in russia has been the revelation that metadata has been used to find out what is going on on the internet. what i am wondering is is -- and i don't think this is too harsh but has any portion of the russian public been horrified by what they learned about the use of the metadata? >> i am jump in on this. i think there is a couple of interesting things here. one is snowden himself came out strongly against this law. he himself said he is horrified at the way these provisions could be implemented against the russian people. there was in the initial stages of the drafting of the law and a stipulation that i believe people convicted under this law could have their russian citizenship stripped of them and that provision rais

systems, one of the roll outs will directly compete with metadata.hat's not 2005 technology. that's going to be more difficult, isn't it? >> sure. good competitor. we have a new product, ctms and that competes with metadata. the market needs competition. our approach, what will be a little different is we're going after a unified suite of products. >> what does that mean? >> we have ctms, clinical trial management system, but we also have the electronic trial master file. so we not only have the management of it, but we have the repository of it. so that's kind of -- people are sometimes looking for that unified suite. >> last question. the total addressable market is really big. you all know everybody. everythi everybody knows everybody out there. now, they were dominant in one form, human capital management. then they said we'll do financial. your stuff sounds so good, one day do you something else or this is where you are and you want to dominate? >> i call that the second act, right? financials is really the second act of work data. the interesti

. >> as i a understand did that the metadata use the information to help target where you need to bee specifically for a potential terrorist. >> assuming people still get telephone bills with the date and the time but the supreme court has said there is no expectation of privacy with metadata. so there is no constitutional issue but whether or not the collection was violating a statute that outlines how electronic communications can be captured or collected by the government. that was the source between the white house and department of justice. with this important point to the dispute activity that the attorney general ashcroft approved over two 1/2 years. we were walking along doing fine but then he gets ill and goes into the hospital. the program is reauthorize by the president every 45 days or so. and in connection with that we authorization is the signature by the attorney general. it is about to expire in general ashcroft become sicking goes into the hospital so the authorization falls to the ed deputy attorney general james komi. >> at the time we also have new people and the

. >> analyzing metadata. >> no one is listening to your telephone calls. john: both are true.are just gathering, looking for patterns, and may be able find a will find a terrorist that way. >> but that reveals a lot about you. >> maybe they will find someone who wants to kill us >> but this program has been wholly ineffective at doing that. it does not keep us safe. john: congress has kind of taking your side at least saying that the phone companies have to hold the data. >> exactly true, and and i was on the right side of history here. john: why is it less problematic? >> the phone company has records of certain customers they don't have everyone's record in one database. they are not going to look up her records, but someone who may be on their radar, and the political party not favor by the government, they can learn a lot. it is who has the information that matters, and the government is powerful. john: this is expensive. good for you for fighting what you believe in. coming up, where you work? are there notices like these posted? they are not they're because workers areea

. >> analyzing metadata. >> no one is listening to your telephone calls. john: both are true.ng, looking for patterns, and may be able find a will find a terrorist that way. >> but that reveals a lot about you. >> maybe they will find someone who wants to kill us >> but this program has been wholly ineffective at doing that. it does not keep us safe. john: congress has kind of taking your side at least saying that the phone companies have to hold the data. >> exactly true, and and i was on the right side of history here. john: why is it less problematic? >> the phone company has records of certain customers they don't have everyone's record in one database. they are not going to look up her records, but someone who may be on their radar, and the political party not favor by the government, they can learn a lot. it is who has the information that matters, and the government is powerful. john: this is expensive. good for you for fighting what you believe in. coming up, where you work? are there notices like these posted? they are not they're because workers areeager to read this

. >> fbi is searching for a suspected serial child abductor they believe it's a metadata the grueling cleveland is tied to an attempted abduction in the area and all possible another case in north ridgeville. >> will ujekjo >> reporter: good morning. fbi says they have forensic evidence that 100% connects this abduction in cleveland that happened in may. a six-year-old girl from west 10 4th street to the attempted abduction out in old area that happened in february now the possible connection to an abduction that happened in 2015 in north ridgeville. this is who they are searching trimmed beard about 5'10" and at least one tattoo. cleveland -- the grueling cleveland said the man who looked like this about her and kept her in the bedroom with a white door black front porch before she was released near lyric avenue. a man was awakened by his daughter claiming a man tried to pull through the bedroom window. in 2015 north ridgeville casey gill girl was taken from a man -- a man entered her bedroom in the middle of night with the dead and other siblings sleeping he took her down the street

it takes time to undo these things. 15 years after he passed that order was the bulk phone metadata programlicitly rolled back. donald trump can do a lot, fast, and with enduring effect. jake: as you noted, presidents carry out more than 70% of their promises. thank you so much. the story "what would president trump do?" on newsstands. thank you. evan: my pleasure. thanks, jay. ♪ >> let's begin with a check of your first word news. a white police officer in tulsa, oklahoma has been charged with first-degree murder, first-degree manslaughter less than a week after she killed an unarmed black man. court documents say she reacted unreasonably when she shut -- shot terence crutcher when he was walking away with his hands in the air. lawyers say crutcher did not follow police commands. charlotte police are refusing to release video of the fatal shooting of a black man until his family sees it first. police chief kerr putney says he has reviewed the footage.

undo theseme to things. 15 years after he passed that order was the bulk phone metadata program explicitlyled back. donald trump can do a lot, fast, and with enduring effect. jake: as you noted, presidents carry out more than 70% of their promises. thank you so much. the story "what would president trump do?" on newsstands. thank you. evan: my pleasure. ♪ ♪ john: it is four days away from the first presidential debate, and one major story is dominating the national news. ult inme old -- the tum charlotte, north carolina, the second night of violent protests after the police shooting of an african-american man on tuesday. today, charlotte's chief of police said the video of the shooting supports the officer's version of events, but does not definitely show scott pointing a gun at police. the city refuses to release

violated, my problem is snowden is he didn't just take information about vast government spying and metadatahe took a lot of defense secrets well beyondsa the house report exposed, well beyond domestic surveillance and fled to enemy countries, first attempted to make it to china and now russia. we don't know where the information is, what's being done with it. he didn't stay narrowly focused on that piece he thought was extra constitutional and decided to steal defense secrets and leave. a whistle-blower he could have been but for those of us who believe you oath to protect classified information, sources and methods people on the ground who do work for us in difficult, dangerous places, he violated that. judge napolitano: a couple of things, pete. no proper names, no places, he really bent over backwards so that individuals might be harmed and you and i know folks in the intelligence community are not happy their methods were revealed. but how do you feel about the person most responsible for getting him indicted for espionage, former attorney general eric holder saying i think he did the r

showed a little more ankle on section 215 on the metadata program. we should have gotten out there ahead of time so that we could have, you know, we could have been part of the narrative. we could have explained why it was important. we could have explain why it's constitutional in his view, you know, as opposed to losing control of the narrative. and it seems to me that that's, you know, part of the mind-set that cia ought to have. and it's hard to get there. but going back to what carrie said at the outset, we're not going back with digitadigitaliz. we're not going back. and it just seems institutionally in your interests and in our interests -- >> yes, very much so. >> funny how those things coincide. >> yeah. and all of your interests too. >> yes. >> to just put it all out there. >> okay. seeing no more questions from the audience -- we have time for one last question then we're going to close this up. >> thanks, katherine how kins from the constitution project. i wanted to know one of my biggest frustrations is when information that has been in

harris: what is intriguing about that though, this whole conversation about how much metadata the unitedgovernment was collecting on us. navel gazing with cell phones and it didn't help catch the boston bombers. kennedy: or san bernanadino. harris: it is an excellent question, julie, whether liberty was be at steak. julie: kennedy and i are on the same page about the civil liberties. i will also say, if you read the 9/11 report, governor tom kaine, former governor of new jersey, who led the 9/11 commission, there was absence of imagination. that we couldn't imagine what this attack would look like. we couldn't fathom it. take a plane. fly it into a building right. but we couldn't imagine it. my fear are we still lacking imagination to imagine what the next attack would look like. harris: i can't imagine that, isis videos tapes all the horrible things they do. julie: if that is how we're anticipating they will hit us and may be something totally different. who knows. it could be anything. kennedy: go to a rock show and kill 90 people in paris. melissa: our imaginations are running wild wh

they were basically collecting so-called metadata. any way that program he's suggesting something like it, some sort of something that would allow us to get in their business would be helpful and you're saying we're disarounded in the fight to a large extent. where does that leave us? i understand we've got donald trump and hillary clinton. but do you actually see a difference in the country's safety depending on what happens here on november 8th? >> absolutely. i mean, you know, domestically we're disarmed. we should rearm. internationally, take a look at what our intelligence capability in places like libya and in egypt, six years ago these two countries were a rich source of intelligence you know throughout northern africa and into the middle east. egypt and libya had fantastic intelligence organization. when america partnered with radical jihadists to overthrew gaza fi, we lost those networks. we're blind in northern africa. in the past who have partnered with us on intelligence capabilities are much more hesitant to partner with

this has provisions in there, section 215, i believe, talked about the importance of collecting metadatadonald trump is for that. hillary clinton isn't. donald trump is also for surveilling moss. unclear under what constitutional authority he will do that. hillary wants to enlist silicon valley. she wants to harness some of the social powers of the internet and use that as a force to stop, prevent terrorist attacks. we'll see to what extent she teases that out. >> hans nichols, good to see you in the flesh. welcome aboard. >>> nbc news' chief foreign correspondent richard engel joins us from istanbul, turkey. richard, it was very important for us to have you as a part of this conversation, to talk about some of the critical issues facing the next president, facing the next commander-in-chief, defeating isis, the crisis in syria. what would you like to hear from donald trump and hillary clinton tonight? >> reporter: well, i'd like to hear what keeps them up at night. what are their priorities. it's obvious that syria is a problem. it's obvious that isis is a threat to the united states an

if they can get the metadata from the phone on the pressure cooker, it may reveal what number called it. if they get that thunumber, it might track back to the person interesting the phone and identify that person. secondly -- >> let me jump in there, tom. i have a follow up question on that. after we saw the terror attack in san bernardino, the whole ensuing debate over encryption and what could be found on the iphone and what, you know, apple would, you know, help or not help to be deciphered, you know, given smartphones and given encryption, given the passwords and everything to get into them, how much does it complicate or make their job harder. >> they can get from the phone company, the records of what numbers dialed the phone and what were sent. >> not from the device but from the phone company. how long would that take? do they need a court order? >> yeah, they'll get that. no problem. they'll get all that. but it's the data on the phone. the actual text messages would be recorded into the memory of the phone. that's what the fbi was trying to get from farook in san bernardin

online andd they're hosted digitally, people have the ability to click on that badge and get at the metadata associated with how the learner, the student, achievedde that particular badge. so if i am so inclined, i can look at assessments that were a part of that badge, i can lookge at the work, the body of work that the student did in order tr earn that badge. >> the same degree from different schools producesdi different workers. >> sreenivasan: some emerging for profit education ventures see a much bigger role for digital badges.anitdg >> a degree doesn't say a lot, a badge or a micro credential, can say a lot more. >> sreenivasan: ryan craig is the author of "college disrupted: the great unbundling of higher education." >> the primary credential that we use in our labor market is the degree, that's the sort ofee default credential. micro credentials, or badges breaks that down into literally competencies. what microcrendentals are signaling the shift from degree based hiring, to competency d based hiring. >> linkedin, it's not just for top executives, it's for you, and it's a great place

. >> obviously the informational procedures that you talk about, whether it's the metadata or enthusiasm intelligence failed tonight. someone put something in that garbage can that blew up and injured 29 people. thankfully, most not seriously injured. we're told now that one has been seriously injured. certainly, someone could have been killed. there's obviously been a failing somewhere on this, but how do you find somebody who may be in their basement building a bomb, deciding to go out and do this? look at what happened with the bombing of the world trade center in 1993. a cell that was led by the blind sheik, they were under our nose. he he was tried as a lone gunman. rasheed baj shows ari haberstam on the a brooklyn bridge. they said it was a traffic dispute and road rage. a palestinian man shoots and kills a young man on the deck of the empire state build and authorities say it's a lone gunman and now we have this pattern. >> to answer your question, how do we prevent it? we have consistently say, if you see something, say something. and every single investigation conducted by our l

and eventually 15 years, 14 or 15 years after he passioned that executive order, was the-- was the metadata program explicitly rolled back. so donald trump could do a lot and do it fast and he can do it with enduring effect. >> and in fact you note in the piece at the beginning, presidents kerry-- carry out generally more than 70% of their promises, thanku-- thank you so much. the story what would president trump do on news stands today, thanks for joining us. >> my pleasure. thanks, jake. >> for more about this program and earlier episodes visit us online at pbs.org and charlie rose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. ♪nformation services worldwide. with tyler mathisen and ness >>> most participants do expect that one increase in the federal funds rate will be appropriate >> standing pat. the fed refuses a hike, but only for now. and some investors are wondering if the central ba

they're still crawling through the metadata. that's very important. see if anybody was using a cell phone connected to the new jersey attack, even minnesota. we don't know that yet. it will take them some time. symbolically new york is an important target. it's the best protected city in the united states. we have 9/11, of course. that suggests political motivations but we could be dealing with a domestic group trying to imstate international terrorists or simply a psychopath. what bothers me are two devices. one device you can dismiss. two devices suggests something more organized. >> could it not just be one person who built two things, put one there, put one there and then left? >> well, it suggests a military tactic. everything in the military is done by twos, two shooters, two bombs, two guys entering a room. and these people try to mimic military tactics. this is -- you know, we're reaching for an explanation but sor the new york police and the fbi. >> you seemed concern that the word terrorism wasn't used. do you think that -- i don't know what

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national release after film about him by oliver stone, snowden claims subsequent changes to the way metadatath vindicates him. he sticks to the individual line that indiscriminate spying does not make us more secure. >> people all over the world are realizing those programs don't make us more safe. they hurt our country, they hurt our country, they limit our ability to speak and think and live and be creative, have relationships, to associate freely. reporter: martha, in an interesting twist last spring, former attorney general eric holder says he believes snowed den has a done a public service to the country but to very many others he is simply a traitor, martha. martha: how does the exile in russia impact all of this, amy? reporter: well, you know, it certainly begs the question, this hospitality by the russians, martha, what exactly has snowden given in return for it in terms of information possibly? snowden claims that he actually has no contact with kremlin officials and few ties there. the film about him opened in moscow last night. snowden's residency permit in russia runs out next ye

>> that goes through the 702 program. , one wase two programs the telephone metadata program, which wethe government's and gathering that anymore. we go to phone companies after court when we need it. the other program which has been much more important in terms of counterterrorism is something , which authorizes the collection of communications between foreigners on foreign soil. these you has been raised, what happens when you are collecting communications between foreigners and you inadvertently capture communications of someone who is on american soil or is a u.s. person on foreign soil. it is not always apparent from the identifiers of the communication where they are. we are certainly overseeing that now and have been for some time. we will have a debate on that when we go through the authorization next year and figure out is there anything more that needs to be done. has asked how many americans are caught up inadvertently in this program. it is veryanswer is difficult to figure that out without having to go into all of those e-mails to figure out are these americans or are thes

it's a system of total surveillance.as acces metadata has to be stored for three years.ll the idea is that in addition to that encryption a company must provide encryption to the government and anonymous accounts are impossible if a provider is obligated to terminate an account if a person cannot be -- the recount.ccount. it nullifies privacy completely so it goes after the entire population as opposed totoso organized or informal groups but the implication of that set of provisions is huge. it also, one of the things that we think about is when one country adopts a set of rules you can expect others. the idea that some companies may start providing a backdoor for somehow breaking encryption, what i should say about it is also the technical requirements are kind of ridiculous. encryption is probably not possible to break. but the direction is very dangerous because if it's accepted in one place it can be accepted in another. if it's compromise here can be compromised elsewhere and these pieces although again it wasn't initially in force but now it's very much enforced. it's not enforc

>> so this is where we use metadata and artificial intelligence. this is not a human being sitting there looking at it and saying, i see a change. there is way too much data to do that on. you can have a situation where you have artificial intelligence, screening the connections, which youtube videos are watched, these days most of the suspects we're worried about are communicating on encrypted devices but you can know that people are switched from an open communication channel to an encrypted device, things like that. not going after the content until you put together a full pattern, digital pattern of life, that would indicate this person is an actual suspect you would want to look at more closely. but the thing is, we're not allowing ourselves to get those tippers. we have to wait until something happens to get the tip that now we want to go where did this guy live who were his friends, who did you make phone calls to? we had no ability to do pattern analysis in advance because we're not allowing ourselves to use the tuth we buiechnology we. >>

we're not using adequately but yet there seems to be a great deal of lobbying to get new power, new metadata, any encryption technologies when in reality we need to admit maybe there are problems in our current investigation, also acknowledging we're fallible and we all make mistakes and you can't be perfect and things will slip through. but i think to say, well, we said these people were not credible threats but we didn't make a mistake. they just weren't. they were credible threats. repeatedly. when a parent says my son is a terrorist, as a parent i can tell you that's a pretty hard thing to do that maybe we should try a little harder. the most recent guy was in jail. they said, well, we didn't investigate he was in jail. well, we never even prosecuted him, which is a whole other criminal justice issue. you don't get prosecuted for stabbing your brother. but the thing is, if you had a lawyer at the time, you should have requested and maybe the lawyer says you can't talk to my suspect but someone should have asked. he gets out of jail for three months, never prosecuted, nobody follows up. i

to be a great deal of lobbying for the fbi for new powers, getting new third party data and new metadata, new rules on encryption, banning technology and trying to get involved with technology when in reality i think we need to admit that maybe there are some problems in our current investigation, also acknowledging that were fallible and we all make mistakes and you can't be perfect and things will slip through, but i think to say well, we said these people were not credible threats but we didn't make mistake, they just weren't, well they were credible threats, repeatedly and when a parent says my son is a terrorist, as a parent, parent, i can say that's a pretty hard thing to do that maybe we should try a little harder. the most recent guy was in jail. they say will we didn't investigate as he was in jail. we never even prosecuted him which is a whole another criminal justice issue. you don't get prosecuted for stabbing your brother. the thing is if he had a lawyer at the time he should've requested and maybe the lawyer said you can't talk to my suspect but somebody should've asked. he