joining me now is nbc presidential historian michael beschloss. l, it's great to see you again. thanks for coming back on the show. >> -- thank you. >> let's start with your reaction to trump's social media post and the special counsel's request for protective order. what do you make of this rapid development over the past 24 hours? >> any other president, and the other ex president who had been presented with an order like the one judge chutkan issued. with eat it even if he disagreed because every other president, more or less, with a few exceptions, has believed the rule of law. what donald trump has demonstrated, before he was president, through his presidency, right up to this, night is this is someone who has contempt for the rule of law. contempt for the institutions of our democracy, like the way we elect our president and transfer of power. the amazing thing is that he gets away with calling himself a conservative. a conservative believes and preserving institutions out democracy. conservative beliefs, above, all preserving the rule of law

joining us now, nbc presidential historian michael beschloss.n wanting to talk to you since this happened. how do these latest charges impact our history, our history of democracy? >> i think the way to look at it, andrea, and i'll begin with a positive statement, our american democracy is an amazingly resilient system. here we are how many years later, over two centuries, we're still a democracy, we're still vibrant. a vast majority of americans love democracy and understand democracy, but we've gone through crises, the british tried to take it away in 1812, so did jefferson davis in 1861. so did the nazis and imperial japanese in 1941, osama bin laden in 2001. these are different episodes, obviously, but the general story here is that americans are slow to anger and we're slow to rise up against a threat to democracy. but once we roll into action, we make sure that the democracy survives. it happened in all of those cases. so what i would say is this indictment is late. i think i would have felt better if it had happened two years ago because

and i want you to ruminate on that last piece of what michael beschloss said. i think it's a perfect place to come in. donald trump's supporters including marjorie greene, she represents that part of georgia, are trying to use his booking photo as some sort of badge of honor, and making their own fake booking photos. as if they are like the civil rights workers in the 1960s who did have their booking photos as badges of honor because they were fighting to expand voting rights. these people think they can cos play as that with and for donald trump. so you as a civil rights leader, rev, i'm going to let you respond to that. >> i think that when we look at the king mugshot and those important in the civil rights movement and went to jail, when you look at donald trump's mugshot, aside from them trying to figure out how to pose and what he wanted to look like, you also have to look at what he is in the mugshot for. he's in the mugshot for trying to rob the votes of people that suffered and died to have that right to vote. that dr. king gave his life for, that mrs.

with me to discuss, celebrated author michael beschloss.t writes that the trump mugshot is not only his forever photo, but an image that can never be deleted from our national memory. as a historian, what is your reaction to this moment? >> i think that's right. we have never seen a mugshot from a ex president, you should, president ever. and we live in a very visual society. in 1974 when richard nixon resigned, he was very eager to cop a pardon from gerald ford, his successor, for a lot of obvious reasons, but one of them was that he didn't want to get to the point where he would be indicted, he would have to be fingerprinted, he would have to have a mugshot taken because nixon knew enough about what was even then modern media to know that if there was a picture of him in a mugshot or his fingerprints were disseminated, be very hard for him to argue as he later did that he hadn't done much wrong. >> you know, you speak of richard nixon and 50 years ago today, the new york times published this article about nixon and the watergate scandal.

i'm joined now by nbc news presidential historian and friend of the show, michael beschloss. michael, that we are here. but i want to zero you in on one specific aspect of it. and it is the shakespearian tale of the man trump said per the indictment you're too honest, mike pence. >> right. >> from the indictment. the vice president was told you need to overturn the election. the vice president responded that he thought there was no constitutional basis for such authority and that it was improper in response donald trump said to him, you're too honest. he was the most sick fan tick vice president probably in american history. he then becomes -- >> door mat. >> a door mat. but he was going to be hung that day. what what do you make of the fat that he will be the star witness in this trial? >> you live long enough, you get to see everything. mike pence is a hero? i don't think he is. >> no. >> he's doing the absolute minimum. he showing a pulse. he's not lying under oath, i think. but is that what we want? is that the test of our leadership in this country? you're absolutely rig

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. >> jen psaki and michael beschloss, thank you both so much for joining us on this historic day.coming up in a little more than three, weeks we will learn the trial date for donald trump's latest case. so when should we expect one of the most if not the most important trials in american history to begin, next. mmercial, i think i'm late on my payment. it's okay, the general gives you a break. yeah, we let you pick your own due date. good to know, because this next scene might take a while. for a great low rate, go with the general. sleepovers just aren't what they used to be. next scene might take a while. a house full of screens? basically no hiccups? you guys have no idea how good you've got it. how old are you? like, 80? back in my day, it was scary stories and flashlights. we don't get scared. oh, really? mom can see your search history. that's what i thought. introducing the next generation 10g network. only from xfinity. >> donald j trump has been indicted and rain, as you, know three times this year. it may not be done quite yet. he is now facing 78 felony counts, three di

podcast, also with as jennifer reuben washington post columnist an msnbc political analyst and michael beschlossc presidential historian. good evening to all of you, this is an historic evening, michael, we will kick it off with you. and this mugshot, right? let's start with that. it's historic because no president has had a mugshot taken, it is an interesting picture idol beast that heat for a long time, looks like donald trump meant something when he took this picture, i'm curious if you get these things right on the first governor they let you take another one. he took this mugshot, they are fundraising off of it right now. he posted his first post to twitter since he was banned in an band. there is donald trump understands the moment he understands something important is happening tonight, what should the rest of us understand? what do you feel about all of this? >> let's start with the mugshot. i agree with exactly what you said, ali, this is a guy who said not long ago i am your retribution and you look at that face, that is the face that is almost fierro. the, angry try to look strong, i'

michael beschloss, it's always a pressure. >> thank you, ayman, you're doing great. picked up in history. >> joining me now is carlos curbelo and david henderson, and jennifer horn, a former new hampshire looking party chair and host of the is it just me or have we all lost our minds podcast, which i would argue is one of the best titled podcast out there right now. jennifer, i'll start with you. i want to get your thoughts on the developments of the past 24 hours but specifically trump's post. if you go after me, i'm coming after you. is there any world in which this is not intimidation? >> not by my definition of intimidation, certainly not. but you know, i think we're missing part of the point here, as we were discussing this and the past 24 hours or 12 hours, however long that week has been up. everyone's worried about him trying to intimidate witnesses. is he talking about, going after jack smith? who's he going to go after? we have to be clear, this is a second audience for the. tweet it is the donald trump jenner six posse. it is sending word out. letting all

. >> joining me now, nbc news presidential historian, michael beschloss, you know, every time we talkme it's a former president's mug shot. what goes through your mind when you look at it. >> when i look at it, i would agree with what john bolton says in the video that you just had, and that is that trump does not do things like this by accident. i would bet that he has been spending a lot of time in front of a mirror. maybe even on that plane that flew down from newark to atlanta before he went to fulton county jail. and, you know, everything is for a purpose. he felt that this look on his face would help him raise money. it makes him look beleagued and angry, and a tough guy. this is a guy who has said in recent months to his crowds, i am your retribution who has said on social media, you come after me, i will come after you. this all goes together. so, if trump is trying to intimidate, you know, a judge or a district attorney or members of the grand jury or others or politicians who might fly way from his support, the best way, just given the wait his mind works is for them to be s

let's talk about this with nbc news presidential historian michael beschloss. >> it's great seeing you is greater than anything nixon did. >> that's because this is a president -- he is accused of obstructing justice as nixon was accused, abusing power, the same. but there was no january 6th. this was an effort -- even if you are the most ardent trump supporter -- where president trump and the people around him made an effort to overturn the results of the 2020 election, to keep joe biden from getting in power, to stop the counting of the electoral college electors. had that succeeded -- it came close, because remember how close those rioters were in the capitol. they were 40 feet away and short of conceivably killing the vice president, killing the speaker of the house. this is speculation, but the president might have responded by invoking the insurrection act or de -- >> that was discussed according to the indictment. >> before then and since then. had that happened, it's not too much to say that we might not be here. we might be living in an authoritarian country where there might

our moderator for this episode of white house history live is acclaimed presidential historian michael beschloss. michael serves on the association's of directors and is chair of our committee. he has written, edited and contributed to many. his most recent one. presidents of war the epic story of 1807 to modern times was a best seller. thank you, michael, for joining us this evening. we will be taking questions at the end of the program from our in-person audience and also from virtual audience. so if you're watching tonight on facebook or youtube just type those questions into the chat and we'll get to as many them as possible at the end of the program. we welcome you this evening. and i'm going to turn program over to michael beschloss. thank you very much, colin. just to make sure you know that you're in the right place. morning, the president. i'll begin by saying that everyone buy a ten copies, read it ten times at least, and share friends and family. it's really a wonderful book and really appropriate that do this here for a number of reasons. one is stuart mcclure, who was too modest to

. >> jen psaki and michael beschloss, thank you both so much for joining us on this historic day.coming up in a little more than three, weeks we will learn the trial date for donald trump's latest case. so when should we expect one of the most if not the most important trials in american history to begin, next. to begin, next rsv can be a dangerous virus... [sneeze] ...for those 60 and older. it's not just a cold. and if you're 60 or older... ...you may be at increased risk of hospitalization... [coughing] ...from this highly... ...contagious virus. not all dangers come with warning labels. talk to your pharmacist or doctor... ...about getting vaccinated against rsv today. [sneeze] (♪♪) astepro allergy, steroid free allergy relief that starts working in 30 minutes, while other allergy sprays take hours. with astepro's unbeatably fast allergy relief you can astepro and go! (vo) ninety-two percent of students in high-needs schools can't with astepro's unbeatably fast allergy relief afford essential school supplies. subaru and our retailers are there to help by giving millions of dol

' class trying to please michael beschloss. getting a lot of attention is the history of peaceful transitions of power. and i was working in the obama administration when barack obama came in and took over for the bush administration. there were lots of disagreements on many policy issues, iraq, the iraq war being a big one, but we worked in lock step with the bush team to help address the financial crisis, to help address any national security threats. that is how it is supposed to work even when you have substantive disagreements. you accept the outcome, but you also work with people where you have battled, where you have fought publicly, where you have debated. when donald trump came in and i was in the obama administration during that transition, what president obama said to all of us is, yes, this is not the outcome we wanted. that is clear. but i expect all of you to behave the way the bush team behaved when we came in, which is to treat people with grace, with respect, provide them with information. yes, we disagree with

joining me now is nbc news presidential historian michael beschloss. it's great to see you.t the confluence of events we are seeing this week? donald trump dominating the republican debate without even showing up, on the eve of turning himself in to be arrested on charges that he allegedly tried to overthrow the peaceful transfer of power. >> right, for most of american history, one tiny fraction of what trump has been accused of would have driven him out of the race. instead, here we are. he's overwhelmingly at the moment the republican front runner. you know, what has happened to our country, only 23 years ago, a moment that you and i remember very well, a couple of days before the 2000 election, george w. bush versus al gore, it was revealed that bush had had a dui offense in maine in his 20s about 25 years earlier, and i'm sure you've heard the same thing that i had from some of the people around george w. bush, they felt that just that one thing, that old dui revelation drove millions of voters away from bush, especially evangelicals in the republican party. that was 20

we welcome you this evening and i'm going to turn the program over to michael beschloss. >> thank you very much, colleen. [applause] >> just to make sure you know that you're in the right place, mourning the presidents, i'll begin by saying that everyone should buy 10 copies and read it 10 times at least and share with friends and family. it's a really wonderful book and really appropriate that we do this here for a number of reasons. one is stuart mclaurin, too modest to say this himself, who was our leader, had a lot to do with the ronald reagan centennial and the fact that honors that were given ronald reagan several years after that, that was 2011 and president reagan died in a little bit earlier than that, in 2004. but he is very much involved in legacy and understands how to honor a president, not only at a time that a president passes. our authors have been setting the subject for how many years? [laughter] >> don't everyone step up at once. a long time. >> several. >> but it's an eternal subject and additionally important not only because this is the white house historical ass