one of those was michael hayden. general michael hayden welcome back to "america's newsroom."he report basically calls you a liar. did you lie about this? >> of course not. i was trying to explain the agency program, for the first time to all the members of the overtight committee. the agency actually worked within the admin surprised convinced the administration that's what we had to do. what you saw yesterday was our reward. bill require's -- bill rirts'sg report. what is not accurate in the report? >> let's start at the most important bottom line. the report says we got nothing from this program. no one involved in this program can even imagine how they got to that conclusion. they took 20 case studies. they took 20 case studies and said you got nothing here that you would not have otherwise have gone the from other sources or you already got from other sources. this is obama's central intelligence agency. the agency as many as response is in 18.5 of the 20 cases they are saying you and the horse you roa --you rode in on, we had it. bill: you are sayinged the interrogations

and this week former cia director michael hayden backed that up on america's newsroom.id not, the congress, the gang of four and gang of eight, knew this from the very beginning. >> so as michael hayden acknowledges some did not know. plenty of others did. megyn. >> which begs the question of course because dianne feinstein had no right to know earlier than when she ascended to her position on the intel committee. those who were in those top positions were told. and now she's pretending like that didn't happen. that's at least how it seems based on the evidence. trace, thank you. >>> well, the democrats went with this report despite repeated requests from secretary john kerry and others to at least delay its release out of concerns for the safety of our american military personnel. so now we're hearing questions about whether the woman in charge, senator feinstein, has an axe to grind here with the cia. we'll take a look at that next. plus, a 9/11 family member joins us to speak for those he says are not being heard in this debate. his powerful message ahead. so i'm the

while cia director michael hayden argued that rectal feeding was not an interrogation technique at all. >> jake, i'm not a doctor and neither are you. what i'm told is this is one of the ways that the body is rehydrated. these were medical procedures. to give you a sense. >> do you really defend that? >> i'm defending history. to give you a sense of how the report was put together. this activity, which was done five times, each time for the health of the detainee, not part of the interrogation program and not designed to soften him up. >> the statute says you can't under law cause intentionally cause somebody severe physical pain or suffering. it is not defined. severe mental pain. >> it gave them a lot of wiggle room. >> it has to last beyond what's transient. what the cia did did not violate the statute. >> outrage over the harsh interrogation techniques building harsh words coming from u.s. allies. germany calling the torture gruesome. other countries like china and north korea accusing the u.s. of hypocrisy and pointing the finger at them for human rights violations. cnn's ian lee

. >> reporter: to the agency's former director michael hayden. >> what stunned me about the report most is the fact it was written in the way it was written. it is an unrelenting prosecutorial document. >> reporter: both men say the cia is right inserting harsh interrogation techniques like shows shop in the film "zero dark thirty" methods prevented attacks and saved life. but on that crucial question, the white house takes no position. >> it is impossible to know the counter-factual. it's impossible to know whether or not this information could have been obtained using tactics that are consistent with the army field manual or other law enforcement techniques. >> the cia is lying. >> reporter: colorado democratic senate mark udall called on the president to clean house at the cia. the review conducted by former udall said an internal review of the interrogation program directed by former cia director leon panetta found the cia repeatedly misled congress about the brutal tactics. >> the president needs to purge his administration of high level officials, instrumental to the development a

>> she says she couldn't do it because of justice department -- >> not michael hayden.-level guys. and the investigation ended at some point and they didn't go back and talk to him. so i think kristen's right -- kirsten's right-o to disaggregate the process from the substance, but the process i think was clearly a travesty. >> why didn't she go? why didn't dianne feinstein and these others go to the cia and the operatives and the people who ran the program and ask them what they say? >> so what their answer is, you know, what you just said, which is that they couldn't because -- for -- because they were under investigation. that's been a little bit debunked. i suspect that they didn't do it because they feel that the cia has lied a lot and that the cia has an interest in lying and protecting themselves and so they probably felt we're going to have to put what they're saying side by side with these official documents and you're going to have people saying that -- basically making stuff up. i just don't think that they think they're honest brokers in this process. >> i be

never heard it, brian. >> part of our interview today with retired general michael hayden, former head of the nsa and cia. >>> as we switch our attention to the other stories we're covering tonight, that includes two major storm systems affecting millions of americans at both ends of this country. to the east, torrential rain bringing heavy flooding and some areas already hard hit are about to get a lot more. snow to the west. a storm with potentially hurricane-force winds bearing down. nbc's ron mott is in gloucester, mass, for us tonight. ron, good evening. >> reporter: brian, good evening to you. the snow coming with this system should stay well inland. now here on the coast we're getting heavy rain, strong winds that you can probably see or hear and possible flooding. from the mid-atlantic to the tip of maine, messy conditions to weather today, tonight and into tomorrow for millions of americans. >> i was getting a little worried as to whether i was going to get through it or not. >> reporter: slick roads, flooded streets, strong winds pushing 60 miles per hour, heavy rain and snow

we'll be speaking with michael hayden, the former cia director.s on this report. that's coming up. stand by for that. >>> let's bring in bob beir, jeffrey toobin and paul crookshank. jeffrey, you heard a lot about a disagreement on this crucial question whether laws were broken. where do you see this situation unfolding, whether u.s. officials, cia officials, government contractors, actually potentially broke the law? because a lot of the sorted details are contained in this senate intelligence committee report. >> i think as far as i can tell from the report that virtually all of them broke the law. torture is illegal in the united states, it's illegal under international law and united states government officials authorized it and conducted it. but i don't see any way that anyone is going to be prosecuted at this late date. the american government clearly is not going to do it. president obama has made that clear. and this idea of arrest warrants in europe, you know, i can understand why these officials are cautious. but i don't think there's a

to help us untangle this we are joined by bob orr and former cia director michael hayden. bob, i want to go to you first. we know the secretary of state did talk to chairwoman feinstein, do you think -- what do you know about whether she still intends to go ahead with releasing this? >> she's in a tight spot. she's not tipping her hand. everyone we've talked to expect the report to come out tuesday if it does come out as you outlined this will be a public smack down of the cia. this essentially will accuse the agency in very strong language of going outside the law, doing too much without authority to try to get information from these al qaeda detainees. on top of that the committee, democrats are going to alleged that this went for no purpose. no good intelligence was gleaned. the cia will defend itself not necessarily defend the policy, but they are going to say look, we tried to stay within the bounds of the law in the shadow of 9/11 when things were very tough, we made some mistakes but in the end real intelligence was had. >> schieffer: also my understanding republica

what do you make of those confrontations with dick cheney, michael hayden and dianne feinstein? >> i thought they were very good. i thought the journalists held their feet to the fire. wolf said diane was a friend and yet he continued in that interview to push you. but what i think is missing here is the overall context. that's not easy to do on television. in 2002 and 2003, americans were petrified about what al qaeda would do, about the next strike, about whether or not they had a nuclear weapon. and that doesn't come through. it doesn't come through that we were very upset. >> a country very on edge. steve, i know you think this senate report is inaccurate and partisan. my question is, have the media made it personal? >> no, i think they haven't. part of the reason is that the media buys the basic narrative that is put forth in this senate report. you didn't have the media do the kind of details tailed analysis of this report that you have had the media do on other things. so you have -- >> very few. you had some in the conservative media, i would say, do this breakdown. but

former cia director michael hayden has said clearly this program was valuable to stopping terrorist attackswould think he had some useful information that this investigation should have used, but they refused to interview him or anyone. jon: do you think this is a partisan report? >> it is the most partisan report produced by congress in the time i've worked in national security. this was a precooked report, and the reason they didn't talk to people like hayden and jose rodriguez and other former cia officials is because they did not want this precooked report to be spoiled by inconvenient facts. jon: well, you know, talking about the facts, i have not read the report yet, i am just reading some of what's coming out about it because it's only just now being released since we have taken air with this program. but, for instance, one of the conclusions of the report is that there were a number of other suspects that were subjected to waterboarding, more than the cia had earlier reported. why, why would that, why would that information just be coming out now? why was the cia -- why would the ci

joining me now is valerie plame and michael hirsch, interviewed michael hayden for his latest police for politico magazine. valerie, i noticed one thing about everyone who is trying to defend the program will not mention the specifics described in the report, especially all the rectal hydration. not one of them makes a single rectal reference when they're defending all of this. >>> hi lawrence, thank you for having me. under any common understanding of what torture is, it shows new that report. but here's another way of looking at it. if any of those techniques were used on u.s. military men and women overseas, the cry about torture against americans would be deafening. clearly, what vice president cheney is doing is defending his legacy, hoping if he puts it out there enough, it will be true. >> talk about general hayden. >> he has defended the program. he is miffed, though, because he came in in 2006 after the program had been discontinued. we have to remember as a country, these programs were not acceptable. water boarding was discontinued. by implication, there was agreement it w

also defending the agency former cia director michael hayden who served under president bush from 2006 to 2009. >> we thought we were doing the nation's will. and all these activities the president authorized them. the congress was briefed throughout objection and we carried them out. >> former director hayden also denied he mislead congress during testimony he gave back in 2007 as the senate intelligence committee report claims. meanwhile president obama reacted to the report in an interview with jose diaz-balart. >> some of the tactics that were written about in the senate intelligence report were brutal, and as i said before, instituted torture, in my mind. that's not who we are. >> let's start with nbc news perry bacon joining us live from washington. when the white house press briefing starts, we will bring it to you live here. perry, let's start here. the reaction at this point in the report appears to be predictly divided along political lines. republicans i did nou s denounc report as a sloppy partisan effort that got the facts wrong. how is it democrats and republicans seem to

general michael hayden, thank you very much. we have shown some already.really appreciate your coming on and taking all these questions, given in some ways that are very central to this. good to see you, sir, hope to see you soon. coming up, there is so much more as pike am hayden said about the cia interrogation reports to dissect, including the official who ruled on the legality of interrogation techniques. ahead, one staffer said jonathan gruber's architect of obamacare. it will be a lot of fun. apparently it was, we'll see how much, just ahead. discohi! card. so it says here i can redeem my cashback bonus for cash. do i need to have a certain amount? nope, now you can redeem your cashback for any amount, any time. that's great. yeah, you can use it for a statement credit or even get the cash. nice. i could use that extra cash for a last-minute gift... one less thing hanging over your head, right? tell me about it. (to guy.) gary, you got to go. who's gary? a mistake from last year coming back around again... too much egg nog! yes! laaaaa... at discover

there's also thoughtful reporting by michael hayden. and yet -- the media, it is interesting, i think that what andrea said is a good point. if president obama says that's not who we are, if the torture -- i'm not going to call it torture, enhanced interrogation, tough talk to some terrorists, that's not who we are. but we are okay with blowing to smithereens people we think may or may not be involved in terror and not trying to capture them and get the intel from them? i agree with you, who the helr are we then? >> brit hume mentioned this yesterday. let's roll that tape. >> the players who are the ones responsible for this program, were not not any of them interviewed by the committee. as mark caisson said to me a few minutes ago, he said look, why don't we just decry when rolling stone did it. and that was a report that comes out without ever having consulted with the people accused here. they didn't do that. >> good point. >> very good point. take both sides of the story, fair and balanced and let's hear from the other side as well.

when michael hayden, then the director of the c.i.a., when he sent that thank you letter, thank you for your service, that implicit apology and that folded american flag to a dying nosenko somewhere in the south in the summer of 2008. we're sorry we tortured you. we know it was wrong. we thank you for your service to this country. when he dispatched that banquet of senior cia officials, to go apologize to that man in the last month before he died, somewhere in the south in the summer of 2008, it was right before the president shl election, i hear. imagine what was going through e through his mind. george w. bush was about to leave office. the next president of the united states was either going to be the war hero republican senator who had been shot down over vietnam, taken prisoner and tortured brutally for years. whether or not he had become a clarion voice to ban torture. his whole rise had been kick started to the moral, strategic abominations of the war in iraq, war on terror and these disgusting revelations about torture. it was either going to be john mccain or barack obama looki

former cia director michael hayden disagrees. he says the information uncovered the identity of osama bin laden's courier and eventually led to the rate that killed him. >> the information we got from detainees including detainees who had undergone enhanced interrogation contributed to the wealth of knowledge that we needed to have in order to find abu ahmed al kuwayti. joining us now colonel ralph peters. michael hayden makes it clear, the interrogation techniques which haven't been used for ten years, the cia is a rogue operation, your reaction? >> first of all, senator feinstein knows very well she is being not just disingenuous but dishonest. of course you don't water board khaled sheikh mohammed and say bin laden would be standing on a corner in wins low, arizona tomorrow at 6:53 p.m., it's not like that. that's not how intelligence works. the way it works is you get connections. it's a vast mosaic, you put the complex puzzle together, you need good instincts sometimes intuition and can be a process that as with bin laden ta

they go into great detail about how michael hayden, the director of the cia, lied to congress and we it every day in the courts in the united states, my clients are often prosecuted for perjury for much less. i saw 30 counts of perjury my question is why isn't mr. hayden prosecuted. if we follow the rule of law we have to enforce it equally from top to bottom. >> what do you think the legal reaction will be from the international community, carlos, if any. >> well, i think the president has been very clear on this and he's correct that we have to practice what we preach. we cannot go to foreign nations and tell them all the wrong things that they're doing in the world and they can look at this report and nothing in this report came as much of a surprise, it shouldn't, to the public, the bottom line is we knew there was torture going on, it's inhibited our ability to relate to other countries internationally. guantanamo is a horrible black stain and frankly causes the president to not have the credibility to do what he wants to do international with these kind of black marks. >> heath

this week former cia director michael hayden got on america's newsroom. >> senator fine stin did not. gang of four and the gang of 8 knew this from the veryw-; beginning. >> some did not no plenty of others did. >> which begs the question. diane fine stein had no right to know on the intel committee. those who were were told. now she is pretending like that didn't happen. that is how it seems based on the evidence. trace, thank you. >> they went with this report requests. now we are hearing questions"bf about whether a woman inÑx char senator fine stein had an ax to grind here with the ci aushg. we will take a look at that next. a 9-11 family member joins up to speak to those not being heard in the debate. his powerful message ahead. can you help me up? [ snow intensifies ] [ sleighbells ring in the distance ] aleve. all day pain relief with just 2 pills. get back to being you. come from all walks of life. if you have high blood sugar, ask your doctor about farxiga. it's a different kind of medicine that works by removing some sugar from your body. along with diet and exercise, farxi

cia director michael hayden said rectal feeding was not an interrogation technique. >> jake, i'm not a doctor. this is one of the ways the body is rehydrated. these were medical procedures. to give you a sense. >> you are defending that rehydration? >> i'm defending history. to give you a sensz of how the report is put together. this activity which was done five times in each time for the health of the detainee, not part of the interrogation program and not designed to soften up for questioning. >> the statute says you cannot under law cause intentionally cause somebody severe physical mental pain or suffering. that isn't defined. >> it gave them a lot of wiggle room. >> the durational terms. it has to last. what the cia did did not violate the statute. >> the rage over harsh rage. germany calling it gruesome. china is accusing the u.s. of hypocrisy of torture and pointing the finger at them for human rights violations. cnn's ian lee is joining us. ian, any chance that will happen? the chance of sanctions and if it doesn't, what happens next? obviously we are having trouble with ian'

that was former cia director michael hayden this morning on "morning joe" making a spirited defense ofnal security program. thanks for being with me. appreciate your time. i'd like to get your reaction first to general hayden's statement this morning. >> well i think that the senate report actually puts a big crimp in the statement hayden was making this morning. because it shows, first of all, that the senate and the house were not actually briefed. and the briefings that they were given sort of minimize the severity of the takics that were being used in these black sites. and also maximized the effectiveness of them. in the sense they misrepresented the kind of information that was being given. that was being produced through torture. so to say that congress and the president, the white house and everybody else signed off on it is a little bit disingenuous. because, sure if you don't tell them the truth and they sign off on something, is that really sign off? >> yeah let me go -- talk a little bit about what the report says. in addition to water boarding. we had already been well doc

. >> few people know more about the dark military art of cyberwar than retired general michael hayden. he's a former head of the national security agency and was cia director under george w. bush. he knows a lot more about the attack on iran than he can say here. >> this was a good idea, all right? but i also admit this was a really big idea too. the rest of the world is looking at this and saying, "clearly, someone has legitimated this kind of activity as acceptable international conduct." the whole world is watching. >> the story of what we know about the stuxnet virus begins in june of 2010, when it was first detected and isolated by a tiny company in belarus after one of its clients in iran complained about a software glitch. within a month, a copy of the computer bug was being analyzed within a tight-knit community of computer security experts, and it immediately grabbed the attention of liam o murchu, an operations manager for symantec, one of the largest antivirus companies in the world. >> as soon as we saw it, we knew it was something completely different, and red flags start

. >> president bush's former cia director, general michael hayden also pushed back against the report that we relentlessly over an expanded period of time lied to everyone about a program that wasn't doing any good, that beggars the imagination. >> secretary of state john kerry has warned that the report's release, could incite violence and endanger our embassies around the world. cliff, what are the arguments against releasing this report? or even making this report? where do you stand? >> well, there are a lot of down side risks and i think only vague upside benefits. justice department did an investigation and filed no criminal charges. you have john kerry, the secretary of state, saying this is not a good time to release the report. you have various officials, leaders of the cia, who are questioning the report, saying there are distortions in it, saying it gives an incorrect picture. what is the benefit at this point? there was a real risk pointed out by a number of people, such as mike rogers, head of house intelligence, that it could lead to americans overseas being threatened a

michael hayden led the cia during the final years of the bush administration he sat down with jake tapperrsday and did not mince words. >> the democrats have used one unwarranted comment in one e-mail to justify the story that you have now bought hook line and sinker that we use this to abuse other human beings. >> you can hear much more of that interview with michael hayden a bit later in this hour. at least two people have died in the u.s. as that brutal storm continues to soak the west coast. powerful winds have knocked out power to more than 180,000 people travel on the roads becoming nearly impossible. with cars getting stuck in the water, and a passenger on a ferryboat says the waters were so rough he was airborne at one point. the rain was a godsend at first. you know about the drought they've been having in california. it has become too much. this ranging storm continues to battle california. derrick van damme has the latest for us now. it was quite a whopper and something they hadn't seen like this in a white. >> leaving highway 101 to a standstill. closing both directions in san

during a heated interview with cnn's jake tapper on thursday, former cia chief general michael haydenr from 2006 to 2009. he was replaced by leon panetta, who later served as secretary of defense. hayden denies claims by senator dianne feinstein that he misled congress about the tactics. >> is she saying that you misled congress. your response? >> yeah, my response is you've got to be kidding, all right? i'm the one who argued within the administration, frankly, with the strong support of the president in 2006 during that first summer when i was director, that we had to go full monte to the committees. this could not be just the president's program. it had to be america's program, jake. and to do that, we needed political support from the other political branch. so, i went down there in september of '06 and then later. the first time that all the members of the intelligence committee had been briefed on all the details of the program. and the only thing i told them that i had to withhold from them was the location of the sites. >> but to differentiate, if we can for the sake of this c

in an op-ed in the "wall street journal," george tenant, michael hayden and porter goss insisted they suspected bin laden was plotting to blow up new york city with a nuclear weapon adding it felt like the classic ticking time bomb scenario every single day. many top republicans accuse feinstein of unleashing a political attack. >> it's clear this appears to be an attempt to rewrite history by the democrats to bash the bush administration. >> but one gop senator, john mccain, a former prisoner of war, defended the report saying torture does not work. >> i know from personal experience wroo that the abuse of prisoners will produce more bad than good intelligence. >> reporter: as for the president's claim that those harsh interrogation tactics amounts to torture, white house secretary john ernest was asked that question, he said the president still stands by that claim. >> jim acosta reporting live from. u.s. troops around the world are bracing for the threat of retaliation to the so-called terror report. the senate investigation steer bid dianne feinstein detailed the cia's brutal tact

. >> sprinkled in amid the talking heads were two other unpaid former chief michael hayden and liz cheney, a defense of what many see as indefensible. >> they are absolutely flat wrong. >> it reads prosecutorial. >> it is information that led us to al qaeda leaders. >> a home depot-like storage of information on al qaeda. >> i never heard from anybody in any position of authority. whatever you guys do about this terrorism threat, please don't overreact. >> wall-to-wall with these folks today out there pressing the case. do you think there is any merit whatsoever in what they are saying. >> i think liz cheney is paid by fox news to be a contributor. a former cia directors and deputies, they do dispute about whether there was useful information gathered from these techniques. i think that's besides the point. if you think these are immoral, it's a bad idea. most of these are taken up with fog machines misdirection. yes, they didn't interview people because there was a criminal investigation going on. people act like they could have been doing this for months and months. i have found very li

. >> michael hayden ran the cia from 2006 to 2009. the program was in place before his take over and he defends it. >> as bad as some people think cia behavior was with regard to these 100 or so detainees, if swn everyone on the planet used cia behavior as the model, the over all treatment of detainees would improve. >> hayden added that information from detainees was used to go after osama bin laden. >>> now to the war on isis, it's also consuming capitol hill right now. the obama administration is wrangling with congress over the use of force in this fight. this times the no holds barred. john kerry testified before the committee as they prepare add report on isis. during the debate they argued against limiting the plt east actions. >> for the life of me i do not understand why it was such a clear idea of what the authorization should look like. you don't have anyone over there that could type that up real quick and send it over here so we could begin a debate? >> there is no doubt we are starting a third war in this particular regi

that's not how real interrogation is perceived. >> michael hayden said everybody is carefully vetd. this shows a lot of people, they are psychologists who had no experience in interrogations. they were contractors, who had shady back grounds and shady records. some who created companies that were making millions of dollars off this. >> by the way, a company that made $81 million. $81 million. >> no, no, that's absolutely right. when you see kind of the shear number of lies associated with this, that the american people were told, i mean, time and again, that this was a humane program, were you -- what else surprised you about this report? >> i don't think there was really anything in it that surprised me. i think for the public, just the scope and the pervasiveness of the program probably was a bit breathtaking. i think one thing that did surprise me, that you mentioned, is the contracting out. the extent to which these weren't agents. these were government contractors doing this for profit. and in the case of the two psychologists, richly rewarded for reverse engineering the siri p

three former cia directors, george tenet, porter goss and michael hayden agreed. in their own lengthy statment, they argued that the interrogations "led to the disruption of terrorist plots and prevented mass casualty attacks, saving american and allied lives." the former directors also said the c.i.a.'s enhanced interrogations, or e.i.t's., made possible the 2011 operation that killed osama bin laden. senator feinstein sharply disputed that claim in her speech. >> ifill: as to the decision to release the report, republican john mccain, a survivor of extensive torture as a prisoner in vietnam, strongly endorsed it today. i believe american people have a right and responsiblity to know what was done in their name. >> ifill: other republicans warned that making the executive summary public is a dangerous mistake that will prompt attacks on u.s. interests overseas. and, over the last several years, the obama administration repeatedly sought to delay the release of the summary, and it continues to withhold some documents related to the interrogations. there is no indi

. >> another critic, former cia director michael hayden. >> to say that we relentlessly over an extendederiod of time lied to everyone about a program that was not doing any good, that beggars the image. >> this will probably be the biggest story in politics. will this torture report be a one-day beltway story or bigger? >> first of all, this would not be this big of a story it wasn't for the fact we had this reporting from bloomberg view that said john kerry called the committee to say i want you to delay the publication of this report. that has blown it up into a bigger deal with all these bush people out in force. kerry just wanted her to inform him when she was going to put it out. i think that has blown the story up to a bigger level. >> this is going to be a partisan fight. the american people are totally conflicted because they don't want torture. they don't want lying to congress, but at the same time the other thing they wanted after 9/11 is america to be kept safe. i think their tolerance for some of this stuff is going to be pretty high. >> i will tell you one reason why it is

michael hayden who ran the cia for part of the time in question defended the agency on "face the nation." >> to say thatrelentlessly lied other a piered you of time, that begs the imagination. >> senator john kerry has asked senator feinstein to delay the release of the report. if it's not leads, it may not see the light of day. >> susan mcginnis in washington. susan, thank you. meanwhile six former guantanamo bay prisoners are beginning new lives in uruguay this morning. all six men were arrested in 2002. they were never charged. had been cleared for release in 2009 on the condition they don't return home but the u.s. struggled to find countries willing to take them. >> even though some of these individuals may not have been inner core al qaeda members, they did have connections to al qaeda affiliates and other networks. all these individuals,'ve finance they're deemed not to be security threats aren't angels and certainly have connections back to certain networks that are of concern. >> 136 prisoners remain at guantanamo. 67 have been cleared for release or transfer but are in limbo a

first, michael hayden. >> three out of the last four attorneys general have defined this as not beingorture. so let's get the legal definition off the table. >> jon: three out of four! you're not even making it to sugarless gum approval percentages! (laughter) >> i did the math on the fractions there. coincidentally, those all happened to be president george w. bush's a.g.'s. so if you want an even stronger statistic, you could say a hundred percent of attorneys general told to say it wasn't torture agree it wasn't torture! flap flap current c.i.a. director brennan. >> i certainly agree there were times when c.i.a. officers exceeded the policy guidance that was given, but we're not a perfect institution. >> jon: do not judge lest ye be judged. to put it in terms you'd understand, that gap's big enough to drive a tube filled with pureed hummus through. what is wrong with these guys? sounds like they're introducing even the smallest hint of nuance to the conversation. never thought i would say those two giving aid and comfort to the enemy. perhaps time for an american to be on the progr

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for more on this report and the fallout, i spoke with general michael hayden. he was the director of the cia from 2006 until 2000 nine during president bush's second term in office. you listen to that reaction from around the world and the damage this has done to america's standing in the world and you combine it with the there wasorts claim not a significant amount of useful intelligence gathered from these tactics, it wasn't worth it, was it? >> i would disagree with that conclusion, but i understand the terror my country is paying now because of this report. because of the report. it's because of the tactics. >> i'm not so sure. that would presume the report accurately represents what is happening. let's start with the hypocrisy of several of those governments your report or told us about. far more like a prosecutorial screed than a recent document. this is accusations. the people at the cia were never interviewed. no one actively involved in this bygram was ever interviewed on senate select committee intelligence staff. it's as if we were tried and convicte

together by senate democrats, didn't even talk to john brennan, george tenet, porter goss or michael hayden, the former cia directors. didn't even ask what they thought are the report and dlisherred it. sounds like the same thing as "rollingstone." >> not at all. you've got to remember this report is based on cia documents, in fact, the cia was trying to prevent the senate intelligence dplt gaining access to their own documents, eric. but you know, i think you're asking the wrong question. this is a business show, and the reason america is america, the reason everybody wants to do business in this country, the reason our dollar is so valuable, is because of our system of laws. our laws are predictable and enforced and if we give that up, if we allow people to break the law, if we allow people to somehow think that american values don't matter, and that we will torture and -- >> i love how juan tries to -- breaking a law. like we're tortures people who are jaywalking, right? torturing people stealings 20ds from the local convenience store. we're talking about people who dedeclared war, parti

a charge former director michael hayden denies. >> if everyone on the planet used c.i.a. behavior as the model the over all treatment of detainees on earth would actually improve. >> world leaders disagree. they have called for an investigation after the report said that there was evidence that the c.i.a. used waterboarding in this secret prison in afghanistan. >> this is really painful. the report indicates that some of our countrymen who were innocent were for futured. >> the americans by publishing this report lose their ally ability because every country will be wondering what extent it can be trusted that some operation sometimes on the verge of illegality but crucial for security will be possible to implement. >> for moran the u.s. should clean up its own backyard. an officer stain on already stained u.s. reputation on human rights. >> there was a career federal prosecutor assigned to this case. and upon looking at the facts in evidence i decided not to pursue an indictment. >> that violates treaties the u.s. has signed but experts say there is no way to force the p