thank you, michael shermer. i want to believe that people in business are rational because money's at stake. if you're hiring someone, you want to make sure the new employee is competent, but turns out that job recruiters are not rational about that. once in abc days i sent pairs of actors out to apply for the same job. exact same resume told them to say roughly the same things, and they did. there was only one difference between the two people. one was especially good looking. the other was not. before we sent them out, we had a makeup artist increase the difference. she touched up the lookers and others added blemishes and bags under their eyes and sent them out in matching outfits. both applied for the same secretarial job. without seeing the recruiter's face, you can hear the warmth as he talks to pretty dania. >> looking for somebody that we like to have a good time at the same time. john: to less attractive amy, the interviewer says roughly the same things but tone is less friendly. he tells her there's a

michael shermer is the author of how science and humanity lead to you truth, justice and freedom. l, welcome. >> thanks for having me, good evening. kennedy: thanks for being here, very good to have you here again. you are the nation's foremost skeptic. >> mr. skeptic, yes. kennedy: you are mr. skeptic. you are a prominent libertarian, and an atheist. i share your libertarian points of view, and i certainly am skeptical about a lot of things, but i am a believer, does that make me crazy? >> you're three quarters of the way there, keep working on saving your soul for science. no, not crazy, not at all. the vast majority of humanity believes in one of the various gods and adheres to one of the many religions. that aside, what i'm arguing in the moral arc is moral progress is largely due to secular forces, secular forces you would agree are good, like the spread of liberal democracy, the expansion of civil liberties and civil rights to african-americans and women. the franchise for all adults. gay marriage and same-sex marriage and gay rights. i presume you're on board with that as a