michael starr hopkins is a democratic strategist who's worked on several presidential campaigns, including that of president obama. and john hohlenwanger is a senior politics reporter for "business insider." michael starr hopkins, doesn't sound like a complicated, tough reach, except it is. how does joe biden get to decency in the political environment that we're in? >> look, joe biden couldn't be more perfect for this moment. he's a man whose political superpower is his empathy. he's overcome tragedy. he knows how to talk to our better angels. and so, i think in this moment, he has to do that. this is reminiscent of 2008, when we were going through a crisis and president obama had to steady the ship. joe biden is going to be the person who has to do that exact same thing. and the polar opposite between he and trump -- trump, a man who's small and pathetically, pathetically insufficient at being able to do his job -- i think tells us everything we need to know about what the next administration's going to look like. >> beth fouhy, when i was out traveling before the election, you know, eve