mieke eoyang is with us, and evelyn farkas, deputy secretary of state in the obama administration and a former staff member of the house foreign affairs committee. she also served on the staff of the senate armed services committee for seven years. she is an msnbc national security analyst. and ambassador sherman, let me start with you. what is your reaction to what we're discovering in these transcripts today? >> i must say, lawrence, flipping through the 500 pages and reading the summaries that you're referring to, i could just feel my blood boiling, getting angrier and angrier. the president talks about the time about the deep state, but these are the deepest of patriots, masha yovanovitch and mike mckinley, phil reeker. these folks are coming forward, lieutenant colonel vindman. they are trying to uphold the oath they can they took to the constitution, and here we have people who are undermining them right and left, and who is at the bottom of all of that? the president of the united states. masha yovanovitch didn't know why carol perez, the director general was asking her to come

that's why i think it was imperc imperative fngress to act. >> woodruff: mieke eoyang, we earlier inat there have been that many,y the fourth one, the judiciary committee is involved. it is unusual to have the etelligence committee of house involved. how awkward is it? how does intelligence fit in to this story? >> i think that it is very precedent-break, in part because when you look at the two most recent impeachment to the modern era, you have a standtutory indet council who did the investigations that the house has to do itself now because thers no way you ca get an independent counsel passed and signed by this president. so you have the intelligence investigation because of tissues that arose because to have the whistleblower and because it's foreign policy and also becauseh chairmanf is one of the investigators in the house and a careful and thoughtful so when the speakers looks at the choices, he made the most sense. >> woodruff: michael all, how does this come down to you? invest our whole committee with impeachment. >> woodruff: a big mistake? a g mistake. the intelligence c

mieke eoyang is going to stay with us for more. when we come back gordon sondland who apparently brought hismer ambassadorship took a stunning step yesterday that congressman meeks just referred to when he changed his testimony in the deposition after the fact by adding some written material to it. does that save him from possible perjury charges? is it that easy? we will ask a former federal prosecutor next. we will ask a former federal prosecutor next. ♪ we would walk on the sidewalk ♪ ♪ all around the wind blows ♪ we would only hold on to let go ♪ ♪ blow a kiss into the sun ♪ we need someone to lean on ♪ blow a kiss into the sun ♪ we needed somebody to lean on ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ all we need is someone to lean on ♪ thbecause with nband after thleague pass on xfinityr. you can watch the out of market games you want- all season long. and with the all-new xfinity sports zone, you get everything nba all in one place- even notifications about your favorite teams. watch the dropped dimes, monster blocks, and showstopping dunks. plus get instant a

mieke eoyang is going to stay with us for more. when we come back gordon sondland who apparently brought his ambassadorship with a $1 million donation to donald trump's inauguration after actually being an opponent to donald trump's candidacy, took a stunning move when he changed his testimony in a deposition after the fact by adding some written material to it. d does that save him from possible perjury charges? is it that easy? we will ask a former federal prosecutor next. e [sneeze and sniffles] are you ok? yah, it's just a cold. it's not just a cold if you have high blood pressure. most cold medicines may raise blood pressure. coricidin hbp is the... ...#1 brand that gives... powerful cold relief without raising your blood pressure. introducing a razor that works differently. the gillette skinguard has a guard between the blades that helps protect skin. the gillette skinguard. are all non-gmo, sundown vitamins made with naturally sourced colors and flavors and are gluten & dairy free. they're all clean all the time. even if som

mieke eoyang and katie benner, justice department reporter for "the new york times." good evening and welcome to you all. counselor, i'd like to begin with you here in new york. what is this week likely to yield? how further down the road on the story arehe we likely to be sitting here friday night?ik >> so what we saw last week was the action happening in ukraine. what our officials in ukraine understood wereic the president instructions. this week the action moves to washington inside the white house and we are going to hear from people who are hearing directly from the president what he wanted in terms of this exchange with the ukrainians for an investigation, exchange of white house visiton for an investigation of his rival, and the republicans are going to have a very hard time arguing that these are people who are not in direct communication with the president. >> so they're fallbacks are falling away with each increasing witness. >> that's true. every time they have come forward with a defense of the president, what they a have fou is that defense is later unde

joining us now is mieke eoyang, and ambassador wendy sherman, former under secretary of state for political affairs. she's an msnbc global affairs contributor. and ambassador sherman, i want to get your reaction to this new testimony that we're learning of tonight from david holmes. this is a high ranking staff member in the embassy in ukraine who's a note taker. he's been in countless meetings with the president of ukraine and the previous president of ukraine. this is detailed man as it were, and this is a clear and precise account of the gordon sondland phone call. your reaction to that. >> indeed. david holmes was the political counselor. that means he was in charge of the political section. he was the advisor about the politics of ukraine. not our politics, but the politics of ukraine. and one thing that your viewers, and i hope all the members of congress understand, even though he did not take contemporaneous notes the foreign service trains its officers particularly its political counselors to have complete recall of what goes on. because they find themselves in many situations wher

for more we're joined by mieke eoyang. i want to start on that episode. as someone who has worked around the national security apparatus of this country, how normal or abnormal is this kind of thing, that a presidential phone call triggers someone going to the lawyer for the national security counsel who then buries it in the classified system? >> this is very abnormal. normally a conversation like this you'd want it widely disseminated. and now we can all work from that understanding which is the shared understanding of our country. by burying this phone collin a classified database they knew there was something wrong there. they were trying to hide it. that creates huge national security risks. now the other country knows what happens and our diplomats, our national security apparatus is in the dark. so they are wondering what is going on, why is this country reacting the way that it is? it's actually quite a strong addition of a guilty conscience here. >> mr. morrison who's the top expert he's still at the national security counsel, i think he's on his

. >> mieke eoyang, if you were still with the intelligence committee you would have been in that closedr deposition today taking notes there as a staff person. i want to get your reaction to what is very clear in david holmes' opening statement that the reason he came forward is what he was hearing from republicans. he doesn't say republicans, but he says all of the complaints that he was reading about about hearsay testimony. and he realized that, okay, i have something to say that is not hearsay. i have something to testify about i was present for that's very important along with several other elements of his testimony that supports the testimony of other witnesses. >> yes, it's really interesting because what we've seen throughout these open hearings are the republicans trying particular defenses of the president of the united states. saying this is hearsay evidence, there's a due process problem, that perhaps sondland and giuliani were freelancing on their own. the problem the house republicans have with every single one of their defenses is they have no idea whether or not those de

i'm joined right now by democratic congressman raja chris moorgty and mieke eoyang, and john meacham of course our presidential historian. congressman, yesterday, today and tomorrow seemed to be strengthening a lot of confirmation the president did in fact have that phone call with zelensky, the president of ukraine but also there was a lead up to it, and we're learning just now two witness tuesday the follow up. the very next day the president is on the phone with sondland saying are you getting this job done, are you getting this dirt you're asking zelensky for? it shows personal involvement it seems to be how you're looking at. how are you looking at it? >> that's right. i think the evidence from yesterday points to basically the president even more involved in this scheme than we knew before. and as a consequence we're following up on this new information. and at the end of the day i think ambassador taylor's compelling testimony and revelation of this piece of news makes it even more important that we proceed with the inquiry and ask further questions. >> it seems to me just fro