mr. berman give -- does very an idea of the motivation behind mr. barr's insistence that mr. eave that post? >> that's a great question. he was asked over and over again particularly very ably by our committee, and he was, i think, very appropriate. and really narrowly defined his voluntary participation in this interview, and said i cannot speculate on the motivation of the attorney general. but he warned us over and over again that the reason for his reluctance, the reason for his resistance was to say that simply by putting in an outsider in that position, that extraordinarily important position, is would necessarily interrupt the important investigations. it would necessarily delay. so while he didn't comment on motivation, he commented on the factual reality of what would happen if he were replaced by an outsider. >> i imagine this was behind closed doors so you can talk about sensitive, perhaps, some sensitive cases or investigations that he may have been working on or the office may have been working on -- >> no, you would be wrong. >> did he believe -- okay. well, does

mr. berman to resign from his position.was having nothing of it, and that's what he said to us in great earnestness. he limited his testimony. you will see from the transcription to just those couple of days. he made no attempt, mr. berman, that is, to identify the motivation of ag barr, but we do know that what he was worried about was if he got fired and then they replaced him or they asked him to resign, actually, then they replaced him with some outsider, there would be a disruption and delay in the important investigations, some of them including this administration's corruption. so mr. berman got the better of that and would not have that happen and his first deputy now stands in his place. we saw a man of great honor, of no political -- he's a republican, i believe, in his past, appointed as a republican, but he showed no politics, no fear, no favor. he just wanted to do his job and protect the investigations. >> i have been in awe of how he played those 24 hours and somehow got to install the successor that he wante

mr. berman thankfully held firm., lawrence, how do we know that there was ill intent by attorney general barr? well, one, there's no innocent explanation for taking a prosecutor who had good reviews publicly and privately and putting in someone who is a golfing buddy of the president, who is inexperienced and, oh, by the way, attorney general barr lied about it in his public press release. >> let's listen to what madeleine dean, one of your colleagues said, about what she heard in the testimony today. >> he warned us over and over again that the reason for his reluctance, the reason for his resistance, was to say that simply by putting in an outsider in that position, that extraordinarily important position, it would necessarily interrupt the important investigations. it would necessarily delay. >> did geoffrey berman explain how he managed to, in effect, win on the way out the door when he agreed to resign with the stipulation that his trusted deputy would take over the office instead of the person donald trump and

mr. berman was stepping down, did mr. an tell you he was stepping down. >> no, but stepping down is the language that i am told. >> he goes on to say that i'm told we use. but, again, friday night, this big office. do you think there is anything more to this, and do you think the hearing moved the ball on it or not? >> look, i don't know that there is really any evidence that the attorney general was trying to interfere with any cases. and if he did that that was his intention. he didn't succeed because now he has strauss there and now that's not going to happen, i don't think. what i do think was happening here is that jay clayton indicated he'd like to stay in new york. he'd like to have that job. you know, that would be pretty convenient to get rid of berman who has all these cases involving the president and instead put a crony there. so i don't know that was kind of intentional to interfere with the cases. but you know what? we have the opportunity. let's seize it. >> yeah. and big picture what did you think of what w

mr. berman would be stepping down. now let me just be clear. when you told america that mr. g down, did mr. berman tell you he was stepping down? >> no. >> okay. >> but stepping down is the language that i am told. >> okay. he did not tell you that? >> no, no. but it is the language we usually use to leave flexibility as to whether the person is doing it on their own. >> on june 20th when asked about the basis for mr. berman's removal on the very day you announced he was being fired, stepping down, the president's personal attorney, mr. giuliani, suggested that, and i quote, the reason may lie in the fact that berman's office got involved in what giuliani described as baseless investigations. sir, if that wasn't true, if you didn't remove mr. berman because he was over seeing investigations of the president and those close to him, why would the president's personal attorney think that? >> i'm sorry. what did he say and when? i didn't hear the quote. >> mr. giuliani suggests that -- >> when? when? >> june 20th. june 20th. that he may have been fired because he was investigatin

mr. berman would be stepping down. when you told america that mr. berman was stepping down, did mr. ell you he was stepping down? >> no. stepping down is the language that, i am told -- >> he did not tell you that? useo, but it is language we to leave flexibility as to whether the person is -- >> june 20, when asked about the basis of mr. berman's removal come on the very day you announced he was being fired, mr. giuliani suggested that "the reason may lie in the fact that berman's office got involved in baseless investigations." you didwas not true, if not remove berman because he was overseeing investigations of the president, why would the president's personal attorney think that? >> what do you say? --mr. giuliani suggests >> when? >> june 20, that he may have been fired because he was investigating baseless investigations. >> if he said that, that is nonsense. anyone familiar with the department of justice would say removing a component head is not going to have an effect on investigations. >> i know you are rare that you are aware -- attorney's personal associates and his presi

mr. berman was stepping down, did mr. berman tell you he was stepping down? >> no. but stepping down is the language that i am told. >> okay. he did not tell you that? >> no, no. but it's language we usually use to leave flexibility as to whether the person is doing it on -- >> on june 20th when asked about the basis for mr. berman's removal on the very day you announced he was being fired, stepping down, the president's personal attorney mr. giuliani suggested that. and i quote, the reason may lie in the fact that berman's office got involved with baseless investigations. sir, if that wasn't true, if you didn't remove mr. berman because he was overseeing investigations of the president and those close to him, why would the president's personal attorney think that? >> i'm sorry. what did he say and when? i didn't hear the quote. >> mr. giuliani suggests -- >> when? >> june 20th. june 20th. that he may have been fired because he was investigating baseless investigations. >> well, if he said that, that's nonsense. number one, anyone familiar with the department of jus

mr. berman. as you said, mr. berman testified in front of our committee and made it very clear the circumstances regarding his departure. >> let's listen to how this congressman described the difference how william barr sees protesters depending on what they're protesting. >> let's look at how you respond when the protestors are supporters of the president. on two separate occasions, after president trump tweeted, liberate michigan to subvert stay-home orders to protect the public health of people in michigan, protestors swarmed the michigan capitol carrying guns, some with swastikas, cop fed nfe flags, and one with a dark doll with a noose around its neck. are you aware they called for the governor to be lynched, shot, and beheaded? >> no. >> u you are not aware of that? >> i was not aware of that. >> congressman swalwell, your reaction to that? >> i thought it was one of the best points made, that their selective use of militarized police, that then is used for our footage that goes into the president's campaign

mr. berman would be stepping down. and let me just be clear. when you told america that mr. berman was stepping down, did mr. berman tell you he was stepping down? >> no. if stepping down is the language that i'm told -- >> okay, he did not tell you that. >> no. that's the language we usually use to leave flexibility as to whether the person is doing it on their own -- >> what on june 20th, on the very day you announced he was being fired, stepping down, the president's personal attorney suggested that and i quote "the reason may lie in the fact that he got involved in what giuliani described as baseless investigation." sir, if that wasn't true, if you didn't remove mr. berman because he was overseeing investigations of the president and those close to him, why would the president's personal attorney think that? >> i'm sorry. what did he say and one customer i didn't hear the quote. >> june 20th. that he may have been fired because he was investigating baseless investigations. >> well, that's nonsense. number one, anyone familiar with the department of justice would say they

mr. berman rejected that. >> did mr. berman testify that he was pushed out so someone could come in and have an impact on the ongoing investigations? >> he wouldn't go into any ongoing investigations. that's appreciated. we don't want to jeopardize those. he did say it made no sense. he was told privately and publicly that he had done a good job and for him to be replaced by someone with no experience in criminal prosecutions that was concerning. concerning because that office -- he did not say this. i believe it was implied. that office investigates very sensitive -- involved in very sensitive investigations. it prosecuted a number of allies of the president and allies of the president are currently under investigation. >> one of them is rudy giuliani. other than the headline about him being punked by sasha baron cohen we haven't heard much about the investigation concerning two of his former associates and all his business dealings. that's gone very quiet which doesn't mean anything about what's happening behind closed

mr. berman testified under oath to this committee it was not -- >> no, he was removed. he was removed and i wanted an opportunity to offer him another job -- >> came to rationization -- >> it's not a rationalization. >> we'll let the answer speak for itself. mr. attorney general, earlier this year, president trump stated that he had planned to make what he described as vice president's quote ukraine dealings an issue on the campaign trail. earlier this year on february 10th, you stated that you had set up a quote in take process for submission of information, excuse me, intake process end quote for submission of information relating to the ukraine, to the justice department and that included quote these are your words anything mr. giuliani might provide. do you recall making those comments? >> something along those lines. >> you can see there isn't anything standard about the attorney general creating a special process for information related to advancing -- >> i disagree and also made it clear that is a vetting process that's available to anybody. >> is that right? whi

mr. berman. but we know better.s again the perception of honesty, the perception of justice, the perception of fairness. just answer the question. it's not hard. it's like the foreign assistance question. it's not that hard. >> yeah. they're all pretty simple, if you really be honest. you guys are great. thank you very much. >>> up next, the craziest damn thing in the world. still haven't said it yet. [ laughter ] ] (neighbor) whatcha working on... (burke) oh, just puttering, tinkering... commemorating bizarre mishaps that farmers has seen and covered. had a little extra time on my hands lately. (neighbor) and that? (burke) oh, this? just an app i've been working on. it's called signal from farmers, and it could save you up to fifteen percent on your auto insurance. simply sign up, drive and save. but i'm sure whatever you've been working on is equally impressive. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ >>> we are in the midst of multiple national crises. and what is the president of the united states doing

mr. berman testifying. what he did by not accepting the attorney general's june -- i guess it was 19th -- attempted night friday night massacre of his position, was he made sure that his first deputy was put in control of the ongoing investigations because he worried about destruction or delay of criminal investigations into this administration or other investigations. this is a patriotic person who came forward. i appreciate what you did, you laid the background here. we have covid burning across this country. we have people in economic pain. we have civil rights pain. and we have an utterly lawless administration. what mr. berman said is without disruption or delay, we have to continue with these investigations. i'm pretty sure that these things will go much more quickly. >> congresswoman, one of the things that may affect you, although there is some doubt as to whether it will come before congress in enough time do anything about it, was the supreme court ruling that the president is not immune to the ex

mr. berman would be stepping down. when you told america that mr. berman was stepping down, did mr. ell you he was stepping down? >> no. stepping down is the language that, i am told -- >> he did not tell you that? useo, but it is language we to leave flexibility as to whether the person is -- >> june 20, when asked about the basis of mr. berman's removal come on the very day you announced he was being fired, mr. giuliani suggested that "the reason may lie in the fact that berman's office got involved in baseless investigations." you didwas not true, if not remove berman because he was overseeing investigations of the president, why would the president's personal attorney think that? >> what do you say? --mr. giuliani suggests >> when? >> june 20, that he may have been fired because he was investigating baseless investigations. >> if he said that, that is nonsense. anyone familiar with the department of justice would say removing a component head is not going to have an effect on investigations. >> i know you are rare that you are aware -- attorney's personal associates and his presi

mr. berman, former u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york stepped down, you are aware of that statement being released by the department, correct? >> yes. >> do you testify today that statement was true at the time the department issued it? >> he may not have known it but he was stepping down. >> he may not have known that he was stepping down? that's your testimony today? >> he was being removed. >> mr. faernl, the statement did not say that he was -- >> mr. attorney general, the statement did not say that he was being removed, it did not say he was being fired, it said that he was stepping down, your testimony today is that that was accurate when mr. berman testified under oath to this committee that it was not, i want to talk -- >> he was removed and i wanted an opportunity to offer him another job and i offered to him the next day -- >> a rationalization. >> it's not a rationalization. >> mr. attorney general, earlier this year president trump stated that he had planned to make what he descr

mr. berman, the former u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, have, quote, stepped down. you're aware of that statement being released by the department. >> yes. >> and do you testify today that that statement was true at the time that the department issued it? >> he may not have known it but he was stepped down. >> he may not have known that he was stepping down. that is your testimony today? >> he was being removed. >> mr. attorney general, the statement did not say that he was being removed. it did not say that he was being fired. it said he was stepping down and apparently your testimony today is accurate when mr. berman testified under oath to this committee that it, in fact was not. >> no, he was removed and i wanted an opportunity to offer him another job and to -- >> the rationalization for your answer. >> it is not a rationalization. >> mr. attorney general, earlier this year, president trump stated that he had planned to make what he described as vice president's quote, ukraine dealings an issue on the campaign trail. this year on february 10th you stated that y

attorney in which mr berman wise serves at the pleasure of the president and if the president through the attorney general asks the person to step aside they really ought to merely have no choice but to do so you have it in the middle of an apparent investigation of trump's friends. doesn't paint a pretty picture does it. well mike i say the timing of the timing could have been a lot better if in fact the administration had a significant or serious problem with the acting u.s. attorney they should have made that known a long time ago and not waited until you know in this case several months before an election with those sort of sensitive cases pending so. i agree with you a good time the timing was not very bright you know more than 1000 x. justice department officials signed a pulp with letter calling on william baudot resign more recently more than 1200 acts d.o.j. officials called for an internal investigation into bars roll in the clearing a protest is from one of the at square how do you regard that. i think it's an overreaction i have my own views on what happened with my fired

mr. berman to step down voluntarily. ven after berman made clear that his leaving would disrupt certain sensitive cases. we don't know yet if the attorney general's conduct is criminal, but that kind of quid pro quo gets awfully close to bribery. >> right. tremendousson, bribery, and high crimes and misdemeanors. ellie couldn't foresee it. could you foresee a second impeachment based on potential bribery or an impeachment of william barr? >> first of all, "joy," can i say congratulations on your new show? it's so amazing. it's going to be wildly popular. secondly, i talked to numerous members of congress on my radio show. none of them have the appetite for impeachment again. i have to be honest with you. they don't do it we're going to impeach donald trump and remove him. january 20th, he gets removed and that's the key to this. joy about the case you were discussing with david, we had the supreme court decide on thursday donald trump is not a king. despite his lawyers arguing that. literally arguing he's immunity what do

mr. berman has testified under oath to this committee that it, in fact, was not.emoved. he was removed. i wanted an opportunity to offer him another job. >> i understand your rationalization for your answer but the american people -- >> it's not a rationalization. >> will let the answer speak for itself. >> congressman, talking about mr. berman in the southern district of new york being removed from his job, he said he was removed. he didn't resign. he was given the choice to resign or be fired. what were you getting at specifically with attorney general barr there? what do you think was underlying the attorney general's decision in that case? >> good morning, willie. it's good to see you. look, i think the attorney general, to be honest, i was surprised he would attempt to rationalize the misrepresentation his department made previously about the depa are tour of geoffrey berman. it's the pattern under this attorney general with respect to the comment they made regarding the white house fully cooperating with the special council's investigation when we know that

mr. berman, a former u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, had, quote, stepped down.'re aware of that statement being released by the department, correct? >> yes. >> and ydo you testify today tht that statement was true at the time the department issued it? >> he may not have known it, but he was stepping down. >> he may not have known that he was stepping down? that's your testify today? >> he was being removed. >> mr. attorney general, the statement did not say that he was being removed. it did not say he was being fired. it said that he was stepping down. >> barbara, i misled my control room there, and this was actually a different exchange but an equally good one with congressman neguse of colorado. this had to do with the firing of the u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, geoffrey berman, and the fact that you will recall that night, barbara -- i think you might have been on tv with us that night. it was very confusing. it was he stepped down. then he was fired. then he came back to say he's not stepping down, and finally there was some agreement

mr. berman will figure that out at some point. now is boots or still working for the fbi? so he worked for the department ofor justice. >> we have heard so much information about his basically being the go-between between the dnc, the clinton campaign, fusion gps, christopher steele, the russian propaganda it's incorporated into his dossier. i know kleinsmith, christopher wray indicated kidman given the chance to resign, go get a better job. i am wondering, how long bruce or will be staying where he is? it's incredible to me that he is still there. >> i cannot talk about individual personnel matters. >> thank you for your service i am sorry for the abuse you have taken when you are just trying to do your job. appreciate it very much. so that settlement time has expired. recognizes the gentleman from tennessee for five minutes. smacked thank you madam chair. i'm the chairman of the subcommittee and the constitution of civil rights and civil liberties this is a most pertinent hearing to me. personally i like to ask if you'll work with us and allow the head of the civil right

mr. berman will figure that out at some point. now, is boots gore still working for the fbi? >> he works for the department of justice. >> well, we have heard so much information about his basically being the go between between the dnc, the clinton campaign, fusion gps, christopher steele, the russian propaganda that were incorporated into his dossier. i know klein smith, christopher wray, indicated he had been given the chance to resign, go get a better job. i'm wondering how long bruce ore is going to be staying where he is. it's incredible to me that he's still there. >> i can't talk about, you know, individual personnel matters. >> well, thank you for your service. i ha i'm sorry for the abuse you've taken when you're trying to do your job. yield back. >> the gentleman's time expired. the chair recognizes the gentleman from tennessee for five minutes. >> thank you, madame chair. mr. barr, i'm the chairman on the subcommittee on the civil rights. firstly i would like you if you will work with us and let eric dryband to testify before this committee this fall. >> i'll talk

mr. berman will figure some point. ore still working for the f.b.i.? a.g. barr: he works for the justice.nt of rep. gohmert: we have heard so about him ation basically being the go between between the d.n.c., clinton, g.p.s., christopher propaganda ussian were incorporated into his klein smith, w christopher ray indicated he had resign,en the chance to go get a better job. wondering how long bruce ore is going to be staying where he s, it's incredible to me that he is still there. about rr: i can't talk individual personnel matters. gohmert: thank you for your service. i'm sorry for the abuse you have to do hen you're trying your job. i appreciate you very much. i yield back. gentleman's time has expired. the chair recognizes the from tennessee for five minutes. chair.nk you, mr. firstly, i would like to ask you f you will work with us and allow the head of the civil rights division, assistant general eric dryband to testify before this committee this fall. to him r: i'll talk about it. >> will you encourage him? him barr: i'll talk to about it. >> all righ

mr. berman will figure that out at some point. is bruce orr still working for the fbi? >> he works for the department of justice. >> we have heard so much information about his basically being the go-between between the dnc, clinton campaign, fusion gps, christopher steele, the russian propaganda incorporated into his dossier. i know klein smith, christopher wray indicated he had been given the chance to resign, go get a better job. i'm wondering how long bruce orr is going to be staying where he is. it's incredible to me that he's still there. >> i can't talk about individual personnel matters. >> well, thank you for your service. i'm sorry for the abuse you've taken when you're just trying to do your job. i appreciate it very much. i yield back. >> the gentleman's time has expired. the chair recognizes the gentleman from tennessee for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair. mr. barr, i'm the chairman of the subcommittee on the constitution, civil rights, and civil liberties so this is a most pertinent hearing for me. firstly i would like to ask if you will work with

mr. berman will figure that out at some point. now, is bruce ohr still working for the fbi? >> he works for the department of justice. >> well, we have heard so much information about his basically being the go-between between the dnc, the clinton campaign, fusion gps, christopher steele, the russian propaganda that were incorporated into his dossier, and i know kleinsmith, christopher wray indicated she e had been given a chance to resign and go get a better job. i'm wondering how long bruce ohr is going to be staying where he is. it's incredible to me that he is still there. >> well, i can't talk about individual personnel matters. >> well, thank you for your service. i am sorry for the abuse you have taken when you're just trying to do your job. i appreciate it very much. i yield back. >> the gentleman's time has expired. the chair recognizes the gentleman from tennessee for 5 minutes. >> thank you, madam chair. mr. barr, i'm on the chair of the constitution of civil rights and this is pertinent to me. first, i would like to ask you if you would work with us and allow the

mr. berman will figure that out at some point. is bruce still working for the fbi? a.g. barr: he works for the department of justice. rep. gohmert: we have heard so much information about his being the go-between between the dnc, the clinton campaign, fusion gps, christopher steele, the russian propaganda in his dossier, and i know kleinsmith, christopher wray indicated he had been given the chance to resign, get a better job. i'm wondering how long bruce or will be staying where he is. it is incredible to me he is still there. a.g. barr: i cannot talk about individual personnel matters. rep. gohmert: thank you for your service. i am sorry for the abuse you have taken when you're just trying to do your job. appreciate it very much. i yelled back. >> the gentleman's time is expired. the chair recognizes the gentleman from tennessee. >> i am the chairman from the subcommittee on the constitution, civil rights, and civil liberties. this is a permanent hearing to me. i would like to ask you if you will work with us and allow the head of the civil rights division to testify b

mr. berman as part of a clear and dangerous pattern of conduct. actions have made clear that the president's allies get special treatment. the presidents enemies real and imagined are targeted for extra scrutiny and the needs of the american people are ignored. his practice of using the department to shield the president and his allies goes back to the beginning of his tenure at the doj. last year when the special counsel had completed his thestigation, when he had report in hand but the public couldn't read it, the attorney general blatantly mischaracterized special counsel's findings on the president's behalf. he pretended that compelling evidence of obstruction of justice including evidence that the president may have lied directly to the special counsel simply did not exist. his deception seems blatant, but don't take my word for it. the special counsel wrote to mr. barr directly to complain about the inaccuracies. a judge later said that his inconsistencies were so misleading that he questioned mr. barr's credibility. nadleret was chairman la

mr. barr that's come before congress. geoffrey berman, attorney for southern district of new york, he went and testified before the committee. i understand you were briefed on that testimony. he briefed in closed door testimony to the house judiciary committee a pressure campaign led by attorney general william barr to get him to leave his post as one of the nation's most powerful federal prosecutors in the 48 hours before he was fired. berman said on two occasions that he refused to resign contrary to a statement the justice department released at the time. in an effort to get him to leave, the attorney general offered him several other high-profile jobs. does this indicate to you that bill barr is corrupt? and if he is, what might the judiciary committee do about that? >> well, what it indicates to me is that barr is consistent. i think that his corruption he testified to in his confirmation hearing. he's the personal attorney, personal defender, personal fighter of the president of the united states. i think his corruption, unfortunat

mr. jordan is recognized. >> let's start with a few things. judge berman jackson agreed with your stone sentencing recommendation, is that right? >> that's right. >> she said, "i am concerned 7-9 years would be greater than necessary paid i agree with the memorandum." it couldn't be more clear they agreed with you. lafayette square. would st. john's church be standing today if you had not taken action? >> i think that was on sunday night, and i think law enforcement data use tear gas. my understanding is they cleared the way so the fire trucks could get in to save st. john's church. >> the church -- >> that was on sunday. >> understand the time frame. would it be standing today if they had not been action taken by federal law enforcement and local law enforcement? >> right. >> 38 people unmasked michael flynn's name, 48 signed in a two month time frame. several people at the treasury department unmask michael flynn's name. is this an issue that general durham is looking into? >> i asked another u.s. attorney to look into the issue of unmasking, because of

mr. attorney general, let's clear up a few things. judge berman jackson agreed with your stone sentencing recommendations, is that right? >> yeah. she said i am concerned 7 to 9 years would be more than necessary. i've agreed with the second memorandum. couldn't be more clear they agreed with you. would st. john's church be standing today if you had not taken action? >> well, i think that was on sunday. that was on sunday night. and i think law enforcement did use tear gas. my understanding is that night to clear the way so the fire trucks could get into save st. john's church. >> the church -- >> that was on sunday night. >> i understand the time frame. but would it be standing today if there had not been action taken by federal law enforcement and local law enforcement? >> right. >> 38 people unmasked michael flynn's name 49 times in a two-month time frame. seven people at the treasury department unmasked michael flynn's name. is this an issue that mr. durham is looking into? >> i have asked another u.s. attorney to look into the issue of unmask