mr. cummings came to make a point of his objections to the process we have been going through. he was slandering me at the moment that the microphones did go off by claiming this had not been a real investigation. this has been a bipartisan investigation by multiple committees in which we had testimony in multiple hearings, including esther jordan subcommittees, in which it was very clear there was targeting of conservative groups in which there were people who are acting outside the norm. we will continue our investigation. just because mr. cummings would like to have a more convenient truth does not give them the right to make a new speech. clear from multiple questions that she would not do it and she would not do it with the delay her attorney asked for. >> [inaudible] >> i have exhausted any possibility. -- we're goinged to go forward with the investigation. mr. jordan has additional work to do. >> [inaudible] >> that is something that has to be considered. at this point, we have been looking for the truth. we hoped is lerner, it in light of semi-direct e-mails -- in the l

mr. cummings to be able to raise exactly those points. i mean, there have been time and time again where mr. issa has effectively cut off the participation of the minority because he doesn't want to hear the fact that there is no there there in this so-called scandal. >> i know. >> and mr. cummings was trying to raise that look, i think that they're not only are there violations of the rules in the house, but there actually may be ethical violations as well. and mr. issa needs to be held to account. and if the leadership doesn't do it, then we have to find some way in our process which will allow those issues to be raised. pardon me? >> will the cbc stay on this case and continue to push for his removal as chairman? >> well, i think that we have to there has to be an account here. otherwise, all of the rules are just completely up in the air. what other committee chairman is going to decide that they want to effectively shut down the minority voice? and why does darrell issa get to decide how elijah cummings uses his time that is legitimat

mr. cummings decided to have quite a hissy fit. the truth is, if he wants to talk i give him lots of time to talk. we'll have additional hearings on the ir, ms. lerner, he had a chance to speak as much as he wanted to in the vote. >> i get that, you're not going to shut down the probe of the ir because of this dust-up. and 71% of the american people agree with you, they want the investigation to continue. this is a side issue. because people are saying that the democrats are now using this. the democratings are using this against you and are making a big deal out of this. and you're a powerful man and you're one of the only people pushing on the investigation. so now some of the republicans are mad at you because they feel you distracted what is a legitimate issue, and now becomes does darrell issa want to shut down the debate? does he want to shut out the minority voice? is that what the republicans want to do, shut down the minority voice? >> the accusation is that i am somehow anti-african-american. that kind of accusation is be

mr. cummings chairman issa meeting with republicans in canadian looking -- and moving forward potentially with contempt. did he talk to you at all about that? ,f he does go ahead and do that what will be the response from democrats? >> let me go back to with this gentleman asked. one of the things i came up yesterday that we found out while chairman issa was asking the questions of ms. lerner was that apparently they had betweenions and talks issa and her attorney. and they asked for a postponement. that is what we found out yesterday. a postponement. it sounded like she was willing to come forth in a week. for some reason, chairman issa would not grant that postponement. is he afraid of what she might say? i'm not sure. the content is along,ed, you know, all what happened as her attorney, from the very beginning before the last hearing, he wrote was sent said that she was going to assert the fifth. she came in and made a statement and asserted the fifth. because she made that statement, she -- they claimed that she had waived it. think that her intention was to assert the fifth. our expe

mr. cummings' microphones.d never seen anything like this before. >> this is the ranking member on the committee. for folks who are watching, i've covered congress. and even at moments during intense discord. the ranking member and the chair tend to work together. they have to just to get the committee running. their staffs work together. i've never seen anything get this heated. >> we understand that this committee is really up to -- it's just a grandstanding tool for mr. issa. we get that, but at some point have you to ask the question, how effective is that to the people, you know, the swing voters in america, who like to have a little more meat on the bones than just shouting irs or between ghazi? how effective is this kind of tom foolery to the average american voter who could vote either way? >> i don't think it's been -- the answer to that is, it's not been very effective, in some ways, not very much of use has come out of that committee, and it's a committee that has produced lots of useful things in th

mr. cummings. he allowed him to take the microphone and speak until he didn't like what mr. cummings was saying. and then he stood, ordered the mike phones to be cut off. what a statement that is. what gall it takes for a member of congress to determine for everybody else, not only who gets to speak and when they get tow speak, but what they get to say. that is where he went too far. the reason we took this resolution to the floor is we can't just let this stand. he can't publicly violate the rules and then quietly, privately call mr. couplings and say look, i'm sorry about that. he owes the american people an apology. he owes every member of the house of representatives an apology. we ask him to do the right thing, be the man you say you are. come to the floor of the house and stand on your own two feet and say you are sorry. >> all right. congressman, i think you made that point. thank you so much. >> thank you. >>> abthousands of russian troo lined ukraine's eastern border in advance of a much criticized ref aren't dumb whether the crimea region will leave ukraine and join

mr. cummings is there with the president on not a sminlion of evidence. as a matter of fact, our evidence leads to lois lerner. and that's why we'd hoped to hear from her. if the ranking member had wanted to make a motion before i had adjourned i would have accepted. i adjourned. he then said he had a question. what you played there was after an adjournment. he then perked up and said i want to ask a question. i said what is your question. and then that exchange occurred because he didn't have a question. he was endlessly slandering the efforts of the committee. but having said that, we want to get to the truth. if the attorney had a proffer, which, as you know, would be tell us, don't tell us your client's innocent, tell us what we need to know. and he's never offered to do that. we've offered with his attorney, to be quite frank, his attorney in writing had supported the idea that she would testify under certain conditions. as we began rolling out an a little bit about what we intended to do in the hearing as far as question, she decided not to testify.

mr. cummings came to make a point of his objections to the process we have been going through. he was actually slandering me at the moment that the mikes did go off by claiming this had not been a real investigation. this has been a bipartisan investigation by multiple committees in which we had testimony in multiple hearing including in jordan's sub committees in which it was clear there was targeting of conservative groups in which there were people who were acting outside the norm. we are going to continue our investigation. but just because mr. cummings would like to have a more convenient truth doesn't give him the right to make a speech. i went through a process of asking questions to determine whether miss lerner would testify. she made it clear through multiple questions that she would not do it and she would not do it with the delay her attorney asked for. i have exhausted any possibility of her speaking at this point. we have attempted multiple ways including it making it clear we could do a one-week delay. they changed their you mind and declined that. mr. jordan has

mr. cummings said he had questions to ask. instead he began making an opening statement. even after the committee had been adjourned. therefore the committee stood adjourned. >> mr. chairman, how much of this is political play for republicans in the election? >> none. not a shred of it. not a smidgen of it. not a smidgen of it. the fact is that this targeting is something that the president initially came out outraged against as we were. as we began our investigation, we discovered that there was clear differential treatment of conservative groups, particularly if their name included patriot or tea party, and for some reason the administration has gone from supportive of this kind of bad behavior when they said it was only in cincinnati to opposing it and saying there isn't a smidgen of evidence. >> republican leadership that the opposite of this will affect -- >> i have no idea what's in the minds of republicans other than the ones on this committee. the ones on this committee have sat through hearings, reviewed information, and are prepared to continue the investigation

mr. cummings' microphone.e had never seen anything like this before. >> this is the ranking member on the committee and for folks that are watching, i mean, i covered congress and even at moments of intense partisan discord, the ranking member and the chair tend to work together relatively closely. they kind of have to logistically just to get the committee running. their staffs work together. i have never seen anything get this bad. >> we understand that this committee is really up to -- it's just a grandstanding tool for mr. issa. we get that. but at some point you have to ask the question -- how effective is that to the people -- you know, the swing voters in america who like to have a little more meat on the bones than just shouting "irs" or "benghazi." how effective is this kind of tomfoolery to the average american voter who could vote either way? >> i don't think it's been -- i think the answer to that is that it has not been very effective and in some ways not very much of use has come out of that comm

mr. cummings came to make a point of his objections to the process we have been going through. he was slandering me at the moment that the mics did go off by claiming that this had not been a real investigation. >> after she established she was pleading the fifth, you still asked several questions, yet you did not give your democratic colleague that same opportunity. >> he was not intending to ask questions. >> he didn't have a chance to ask. >> mr. cummings said he had questions to ask, instead making an opening statement even after the committee had been adjourned. therefore we adjourned. >> we are going to hear from the other side of things with the congressman joining morning joe to give his side of the story. >>> people who like their plan can keep it a little longer. americans, health insurance policies that don't meet obamacare guidelines can be extended through 2017. it affects up to 1.5 million people and allows extra time to meet the criteria. open enrollment is november 15th, 11 days after the midterm elections. republicans criticized the announcements. >> headline p

mr. cummings said he had questions to ask. instead he began making an opening statement. even after the committee had been adjourned. therefore the committee stood adjourned. >> how much of this is a political play for republicans in the election? >> none, not a shred of it. not a smidgen of it. not a smidgen of it. the fact is that this targeting is something that the president initially came out outraged against, as we were. as we began our investigation we discovered that there was clear differential treatment of conservative groups, particularly if their name included patriot or tea party. and for some reason the administration has gone from supportive of this kind of bad behavior when they said it was only in cincinnati, to opposing and saying there isn't a smidgen of evidence. >> there's concern among the republican leadership that the object of this will effect -- >> i have no idea what's in the minds of republicans other than the ones on this committee. the ones on this committee have sat through hearings, reviewed information and are prepared to continue the inve

mr. cummings said, here's the case is closed. we started our investigation and june 9th, in may, we started our investigation june 9th. mr. cummings, the ranking member, said here's the case is closed. and then, june 9th -- well, he said, i've seen the case is solved, and so me i'd wrap this case up and move on and be frank. so he tries to throw the case under the bus. he tried to throw the chairman under the bus. he sent a letter just before that, your actions over the past three years do not reflect a responsible bipartisan approach to investigations. now, he has a constitutional and a house responsibility for investigations, and oversight, you have a responsibility to provide us with information. now we've asked you specifically for about a half a dozen individuals e-mails, including lois lerner, is that correct? >> yes. >> okay. and you said you just testified that probably most of the -- you said you gave 640,000 to the ways and means and 420 to our committee. but you also said here, and we can play the tape back, probably m

mr. cummings said, he hopes, as they move forward, that they will respect all the opinions of members of the committee and seek resolution instead of unnecessary conflict. true knee ofed the the irs over tea party groups. consideredley can be to be the first american female superstar. she was an entertainer. she was discovered when frank adler, an exhibition shooter, andtraveling town to town he challenged the best shooters of the towns he went to to a shooting contest. out thisght 15-year-old girl and she shot side-by-side and actually beat him. he came back a year later, married her, and from then on they traveled as exhibition shooters and and he became the nie became then star, a sure shot. it says annie oakley, little william f cody. of course, that is buffalo bill. we can guess what this presentation might have been. at that time, she was touring with the wild west show in london and europe. bill lend her some of his gunpowder, of a different type, and it blew up her shotgun. -- so this is sorry i blew up your shotgun. >> part of american history tv this weekend on c-span 3. >> tom

mr. cummings' mic and attempted to walk out of the hearing. watch. >> for the past year, the central republican accusation in this investigation -- >> we're adjourned. close it down. >> minimal solution -- [ inaudible ] >> thank you. >> while you can cut off a mic, you can't cut off a congressman like elijah cummings. not when he's this hot and has a relationship this strained and tempestuous with the chairman. >> he was not asking any questions. he was determined -- >> mr. cummings said that he had questions to ask and instead began making an opening statement. even after the committee had been adjourned. therefore, we adjourned. >> was it a bipartisan hearing? not one member of the democratic side had an opportunity to say one scintilla, one syllable before the chairman adjourned. that's not -- that's not bipartisan. >> and that was it. nope -- not hardly. once both men were finished, they took their fight outside the hearing room with each man denouncing the tactics of the other party. first, chairman issa, then ranking member cummings went

mr. cummings after the house voted down a measure to censure him. we will be taking a look at that hearing with lois lerner, followed by comments from darrell issa. the purpose of the hearing is to gather facts about how and why the i.r.s. improperly scrutinized certain organizations that applied for tax exempt status. today we have recalled ms. lois lerner, the former director of exempt organizations at the i.r.s. ms. lerner appeared at the may 22, 2013, hearing you should a subpoena and that subpoena remains in effect. before we resume our questioning, i'm going to briefly state for the record a few developments that have occurred since the hearing began nine months ago. these are important for the record and for ms. lerner to know and understand. on may 22, 2013, after being sworn in at the start of the hearing, ms. lerner made a voluntary statement under oath discussing her position at the i.r.s. and professing her innocence. ms. lerner did not provide the committee with any advance notification of her intention to make such a statement during h

mr. cummings said he had questions to ask. instead, he began making an opening statement. even after the committee had been adjourned. there are the committee stands to adjourn. >> ew. donny? >> i mean, you know, that is a big black eye for darrell issa to basically go off procedural things and he buried the lead and the whole thing about the irs gets lost in the republicans one more time like a party of no. to me it was a pathetic display on issa's part. >> you wonder why people hate congress. harry reid making koch puns and the oversight committee shutting down a respectable colleague who simply wanted to ask a question. >> in the sick of this process. >> i think it's a great point. you're right. while harry reid is going around calling guys that give billions and billions of dollars to hospitals and institute, art institutions, he is sitting there with, what? an 8%, 9% approval rating in congress? for good reason. ron fournier, what would you guess is the number one place that buzzfeed says is the worst place to get into a

mr. cummings decided to have quite a hissy fit.ucil. 3 amazing benefits in 1 super fiber. [ cellphones beeping ] ♪ [ cellphone rings ] hello? [ male announcer ] over 12,000 financial advisors. good, good. good. over $700 billion dollars in assets under care. let me just put this away. [ male announcer ] how did edward jones get so big? could you teach our kids that trick? [ male announcer ] by not acting that way. ok, last quarter... [ male announcer ] it's how edward jones makes sense of investing. ♪ my sinuses are acting up and i've got this runny nose. i better take something. truth is, sudafed pe pressure and pain won't treat all of your symptoms. really? alka seltzer plus severe sinus fights your tough sinus symptoms plus your runny nose. oh what a relief it is to nbcuniversal's coveragens of the biggest loser olympic winter games ever, with the most coverage of the most events on every device. and the most hours of streaming video on the nbc sports live extra app, including the x1 platform from xfinity. comcast was honored to

mr. cummings, the fierce advocate, was not going to be silent. it's been an abusive waste of time.t going to get anything out of -- i know you disagree, that's fine. i disagree with everything you said as well. >> it does seem that there's so much politics. is it making itself irrelevant? >> no, it's not, these matters are sometimes not pleasant, but at the end of the day the -- >> disrespectful. >> the duty is to find out the truth and get to the bottom of what's going on. and that's what they're doing. sometimes they are long and tedious, but at the end of the day hopefully we find out what the truth is. that's what congressman issa is trying to do. whether people like it or not. angela, there's no need for us to be ugly to each other. we can disagree on issues. >> i'm not being ugly. >> but we canning being civil. >> and sang. >> i'm being very civil. >> i know you are. >> same with the congressmen. i know they're both fine human beings, and they are good congressmen. they can certainly be civil to each other, i'm sure. >> we will hear from congressman cummings when he comes to

mr. cummings decided to have a hissy fit. >> hey, shut up. >> darrell issa apologizes. >> mr. ad a pre-staged event. he lost his temper. >> you can't have a hearing without hearing one siylabol. >> that is not american. it is not the way we do it in america. >> the top trender. hitting the brakes. >> i probably am public enemy number one. >> senator corker is probably the face. >> a reversal by the national labor relations board in chattanooga would be unprecedented. >> they are saying we interfered. >> corker was misleading workers and making threats. >> unprecedented if the national labor relations board actually overrules for that reason. >> i stand by those comments. i would have never made them if i did not have full assurances that everything i said was 100% fact. >> the right to have a union should be left to the workers. >> joining me tonight is the national steel workers international. the uaw has decided not to talk about it. the bottom line is senator corker continues to talk about it. he wrote in the wall street journal about his actions involved in this. mr. gerard

mr. cummings would like time. \[inaudible] >> we're going to -- we're going to there's cameras everywhere. we will confer to see our next steps. but ms. lerner is not our primary concern today. nor is the contempt. obviously we're going to continue investigating others at the i.r.s. and make a determination of how we can, you know, you asked a question earlier of, do you think she's going to testify? i have less than likely, but there is in fact a possibility that given a federal judge's orders she would testify. so we're going to have to consider all of those possibilities of whether or not there's any way to get testimony by a key character who very, very clearly had information and isn't willing to give it to us. thank you. ok, thank you. >> today i wanted to make clear that from the very beginning this has been an effort to blame the white house for or claim that the white house targeted political enemies of the president through the i.r.s. we have now interviewed 38 i.r.s. employees, hundreds of thousands of

mr. cummings have said, it's not what the american people expect. we are better than this as a country.irman issa needs to apologize because it was the wrong thing to do. >> i just want to be clear. everyone i think has been playing that small section of the footage that we played at the top. chairman issa brought lois lerner into the committee room. he had promised the weekend previous on "fox news sunday" we're going to have her back, i'm breaking news now, she's going to answer some questions. she pled the fifth again. darrell issa asked her a bunch of questions. at no point, am i correct, correct me if i'm wrong, did the ranking member get to say anything? >> not only did he not get to speak, but once he was asked for permission under house rule 11 to get his five minutes, as every member of the committee is entitled to, the chairman, mr. issa, initially refused and then did yield him the microphone and allowed him to begin his comment or question and because he didn't like what he was saying, stood over him and turned the mike off, silencing his ability to continue his inquiry, and

mr. cummings -- that does the same thing. mr. cummings, there was a meeting with the republicans on the committee. did he talk to you at all about that? ,f he goes ahead to do that what will the response be? >> let me go back to what this gentleman said. one of the things that came up yesterday that we found out while they were asking the questions without apparently there have been negotiations and sheet, -- she, issa , and her attorney. they had asked for a postponement. it sounded like she was willing to come forth in a week. for some reason, chairman issa would not grant that. if you read what she might say? i am not sure -- is he afraid of what she might say? i am not sure. keep in mind that her attorney said that she would plead the fifth. she came in, she made a statement, and she asserted the fifth. because she made that statement, they claimed that she had waived her right. our experts have told us that she did not leave her right. - waive her right. i will stand up for the constitution. i think when somebody's attorney h

mr. cummings in what appears to have been a prestaged event, then went into this "i have a right to talk" screaming and so on. the fact is that i did things according to the rules. i fell for the script and mr. cummings decided to have quite a hissy fit. >> it's fitting issa made those comments on fox news because fox news and darrell issa have been co-producers of sorts in an ongoing obama scandal series. issa issues the subpoenas and gets the testimony and fox runs the stories. it's a symbiotic relationship. it doesn't seem to faze either party if the line of attack has already been thoroughly discredited. in fact, this situation is a great example of that. listen to megyn kelly in the interview with issa last night. >> you're not going to shut down your probe because of this dustup. the polls show as recently as late february that they want the irs investigation to continue. this is a side issue. >> you see, issa's investigation is legit, this is just a side issue. in fact, wednesday's hearing appeared to have been designed to further the claim that the irs had targeted conservatives.

mr. cummings who accepted his apology.did things according to the rules defense seems even shakier. in a letter to house speaker john boehner last night congressman cummings backed by two constitutional law experts charged that amid all the confusion issa committed a fatal procedural error and failed to meet the prerequisites required by the supreme court to hold a witness in contempt. holding lois lerner in contempt of congress has literally been the whole point of darrell issa charade for the past few months. it is the thing that darrell issa has been angling to get out of this colossal waste of money and resources and time. so is darrell issa going to let something incidental, something trivial like a supreme court ruling stop him from trying to hold lois lerner in contempt of congress? absolutely not. after ten months of congressional inquiry, over 15 hearings, 400,000 documents which resulted in 255 irs employees spending 97,000 hours, 97,000 hours responding to congressional investigations all at a whopping cost of $

mr. cummings was talking about in that news conference today. important to say that the speaker of the house republican john boehner spoke before mr. cummings came out and was asked whether he supports what issa did. he said he does support him. he also said that in his view the chairman of the committee, daryl issa, acted appropriately. bottom line here is congressional black caucus supported by many democrats has offered a privilege resolution calling on sanctions against the chairman, congressman issa. not likely to go anywhere, as i can see it, simply because republicans control the house and issa's a republican, ashleigh. >> well, and the headlines if the republicans wanted the headlines to be about the irs, the headlines today are about the drama and not about the substance of the hearing. so, joe johns, thank you for that. do appreciate your reporting on it. we have another big special coming guns, gangs and the problem of what to do about them. all an ongoing battle in chicago. and cnn is taking you inside that battle with a brand new se

mr. cummings. >> mr. chairman, this hearing has been very helpful in that i see we were able to some degree focused on the ig report. the ig had nine recommendations and they have all been met. i want to take a moment to say to the irs employees who are watching ntu, mr. koskinen, i want to thank you for your service. you all have one of the toughest jobs in america, collecting taxes. at the same time, you have laws that you have to make sure i adhere to. when people get those letters, they're about to have an audit or they get anything for the irs accepted check, the blood pressure probably goes up a little bit. because they are concerned. the reason why i say all of that i want to go back to some thing that, i think that when you have any kind of breach of trust, what happens if it makes everything suspect. you have come in to try to restore that trust. and it's not easy. on one hand, you come in and you take it up and i do have a lot of credit. i know you do. and now the employees hour after hour in gi

mr. cummings what had his opportunity. some of that was theatrics he was trying to close this down from date number one. neil: what beta of the republicans walkout? the hearing was recessed or adjourned at that point. the next one is democrats they are always given an opportunity. neil: they cannot ask questions that this one? to make it was a continuation of the chairman's question in of the hearing that we started where she claimed her innocence with a long statement. neil: by a understand but when someone tells me look i will continue to plead the fifth. to have to know this is coming. >> that when she would come in and testify. >> listen. next to the last question he said there had been discussions and she had been given in one week more would she come in and testify? so most recently they asked for an additional week just prior to having her come in today. we had an agreement she was subpoenaed. they are playing a game. they're stretching it out and she will continue because we think she is the source of a lot of the

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whereas ranking member cummings protested immediately stating, "mr.rman, you cannot run a committee like this. you just cannot --" >> gentleman will suspend. chair is going to ask for the decorum of the house that members not display their ipads. it's a violation of the house rules. >> which rules? >> it's a violation of the house rules. regular order would be putting the ipads down. >> which rules? regular order would be putting the ipads -- my own point of order here, i think there were a few other brands of things held up there other than just ipads. still, though, the reason for this remarkable scene today in the house, the reason these members of congress were holding up tablets and phones and one poor guy with a piece of paper, the reason they were holding these up was to show everyone one specific photo. this photo of republican congressman darrell issa last week in his capacity as chairman of the house oversight committee, darrell issa drawing his fingers across his neck giving the old shut it down, cut it off sign to the audio guy apparently

mr. cummings about lois lerner. says talking about potentially moving forward with the charge of contempt. i'm wondering if he has spoken to you at all about that. if he does go ahead and move to hold her in contempt, what will be the response from the >> one of the things that came up yesterday that we found out while chairman issa was asking the questions of ms. lerner was that apparently there had been negotiations and talks between she, the chairman, and her attorney. they have asked for a postponement. that is what we found out yesterday. it sounded like she was willing to come forward in one week. reason, the chairman would not grant that postponement. is he afraid of what she might say? i'm not sure. as far as content is concerned, all along, keep in mind, what happened is her attorney from shevery beginning said that was going to assert the fifth. she came in, made a statement, asserted the fifth. because she made that statement, she claimed that she had waived it. again, i think her attend -- intention was

mr. cummings is there with not a smidge again of evidence. we have never sat and said this leads to the president. our evidence leads to lois lerner that's why we hoped to hear from her. >> now the biggest question, what is next for lois lerner as chairman issa and john boehner are considering holding her in contempt. >> i have conferred with some of my members. i plan ton speaking to them and we plan to do it as early as next week. >> they could force her to testify. the fox news poll shows 71 percent of the country believes congress should investigate the irs. certainly a story we will be watching as it progresses. ainsley, tack to you. >>> thank you, mary ann. >> an arrest in the 2011 kidnapping and murder of nursing student holly. zachary adams now indicted in the 20-year-old's disappearance. there is no bond set. they will consider the death den ality if adams is convicted. >> day tour of the oscar pistorius trial. they showed the blade runner arriving in court early this morning. his neighbor is back on the witness stand. he says he hea

mr. cummings tells us he was going to say if i can help you get the answers to these questions let's findnother way to do it his way is behind closed doors but still it's a start. i have known both of those men for three years. they have a very good relationship 99 percent of the time. >> i have been in the hearing room and i have seen there's a certain congeniality between the two of them. stick around. we will be right back with much more after the break. some time? the next time you nt a dvd, don't bother rewinding it. the way i see it, it's t next guy's problem. oh, larry. she thinks i'm crazy. mm-hmm. but would a crazy person save 15% on car insurance in just minutes? [ chuckles ] [ malennouncer ] 15 minutes for a quote is crazy. with esurance, 7½ minutes could save you on car insurance. welcome to the modern world. esurance. backed by allstate. click or call. >> back with me trey gowdy. we have been talking about lois lerner. i was looking at some of the e-mails and testimony of irs officials which you have access which indicates this isn't just a caning rue investigation there is m

mr. cummings tells us he was going to say if i can help you get the answers to these questions let's findnother way to do it his way is behind closed doors but still it's a start. i have known both of those men for three years. they have a very good relationship 99 percent of the time. >> i have been in the hearing room and i have seen there's a certain congeniality between the two of them. stick around. we will be right back with much more after the break. so our business can be on at&t's network for $175 a month? yup. all 5 of you for $175. our clients need a lot of attention. there's unlimited talk and text. we're working deals all day. you get 10 gigabytes of data to share. what about expansion potential? add a line, anytime, for $15 a month. low dues, great terms. let's close! new at&t mobile share value plans our best value plans ever for business. ♪ ♪ ♪ told ya you could do it. (dad vo) i want her to be safe. so, i taught her what i uld angot her a subaru. irl) piece of cake. ♪ (announcer) love. it's what makes a suru, a subaru. the next time you nt a dvd, don't bother rewinding it

mr. cummings' letter. i do not agree with that analysis in any way, shape, or form. clear on more than one occasion that miss lerner should testify or be held in contempt. >> will the house be made available to express his or her opinion? >> i'm sure we'll see an opinion at some point. >> congressman, i have your letter here, several pages long, very clear parliamentary specificity on every single item you're talking about. so when you hear the speaker just kind of brush it away with no specificity whatsoever, what's your reaction to that? >> my reaction is that, mr. speaker, if you have an opinion that goes counter to the opinion of experts in this area, folks that have written textbooks on this subject, folks who have the subject, if you have an opinion that is difference than theirs, let's have it. you've got ours. by the way, lawrence, once we obtained the opinions that we got from stan brand and mr. rosenberg, we then had five additional experts to agree with that, with the opinion. so if they have an opinion, we need to see it. >> and just so i -- you and i kno

mr. cummings said, congressman cummings. and it's time for us to act like adults. >> when you are chairman of an oversight committee and you're talking about serious things like his investigation of the irs or the attorney general or whatever, why would you act in a rude way, cutting off mics and all, unless you're really not trying to get the answers to what happened or didn't happen or the truth, be you are really trying to have something lean the way you want it? >> so that's precisely the point. it was theater, and it was a step in the direction of then subsequently holding lois lerner in contempt. and that's sort of his game plan. the real tragedy here is that lois lerner wanted to testify. she wanted another week to prepare, and he was unwilling to give her that week. so she plead the fifth as she has the right to do. so and then he gavelled the committee hearing to a close without giving the other side, the democrats on the committee the opportunity to have opening statements and to pose questions as well. this is a d

mr. cummings decided to have a hissy fit. >>> the latest is conservative billionaire. one who compared the fight against inequality to hitler's action in nazi germany. it was outrageous. last night he apologized, sort of. quote, my remarks were intended to discourage pitting one group against another group in a society. if my choice of words was inappropriate -- and they well may have been that -- i extend my profound apologies to anyone and everyone who may have been offended. if it was inappropriate, apologies to everyone who may have been offended. did he think we ignore his sorry excuse? nice try. sorry i'm not sorry because we got you. anything we purchase for the paper cottage goes on our ink card. so you can manage your business expenses and access them online instantly with the game changing app from ink. we didn't get into business to spend time managing receipts, that's why we have ink. we like being in business because we like being creative, we like interacting with people. so you have time to focus on the things you love. ink from chase. so you can. (music

mr. cummings said that he had questions to ask, instead he began making an opening statement, even aftercommittee had been adjourned. therefore, the committee stands to adjourn. yes, sir? >> mr. chairman, how much of this is a political play for the republicans in the election? >> none, not a shred of it. >> no, i have not. what we have done, and i applaud my members of my committee, i'm very proud of them, they've come here seeking the truth. we really do -- and i said this many times, it is very important for us to make sure the government operates properly and operates effectively and efficiently, and all of our members are determined to make that happen. >> mark, mics were turned off, words like "un-american" there, as well. this will likely play some role in the midterm elections, in that it is such an issue that is divided between left and right and how people see this investigation. >> well, it's more indicative of where politics are, particularly on capitol hill, tamron, and i think what we witnessed at that hearing today was a breach of decorum. i've covered many congressional h

mr. cummings said he had questions to ask. >> the chairman defended his decision to cut off proceedings. >> the former irs director -- >> he knew precisely that lawrence learner was go i think to feed the fifth. >> issa on "fox news sunday" said she's willing to testify. >> her attorney indicates now she will testify. >> we understand that she is again pleading the fifth. >> i'm so tired of lois lerner and the fifth amendment and cummings and all of this. >> we know what she did. what we don't know is why she did it. >> do you know what happened? do you know what the irs did? >> okay. when is the last time that this happened in a congressional hearing? >> ladies and gentlemen, seeking the truth is the obligation of this committee. i can see no point in going further. i have no expectation that ms. lerner will cooperate with us. >> mr. chairman, i have a procedural question. mr. chairman, i have a procedural question. mr. chairman, you can not run a committee like this. you just cannot do this. we're better than as a country. we're better than that as a committee. i have asked for a few m