mr. d'souza. >> first of all, that's logically idiotic. if someone is wrongly convicted of something or isressur or udgeoned int making a plea deal and then you're pardoned, by accepting the pardon, you're doing no more than clearing your record and rectifying the original injustice. so, the notion that just because you've accepted a pardon automatically means you're guilty is reasoning for stupid people. >> but you eventually pleaded guilty to this. >> i did, but you have to realize the process that leads to this. what the government does is they try to threaten you with all kinds of preposterous and redundant charges. we're going to get you for mail fraud. you're like, mail fraud? they're like, yeah, because you put the check in the mail. we're going to get you for bank fraud. you're like, bank fraud? they're like, yeah, because you took the money out of the bank. we're going to get you for filing a false document. you're like, i didn't file any documents. theye like,yeah, but the guys who sent

mr. d'souza pled guilty. he said i did it. the president feels it was unfair to mr. d'souza. he used that phrase about sheriff arpaio. he used it about scooter libby. he says it about president trump. scooter libby lied to a federal grand jury. martha stewart lied to fbi investigators. d'souza violated campaign finance laws. there's no question he's sending a message. his lawyer was dangling pardons which could be legally problematic in front of witnesses and defendants. >> they would not characterize it as dangling. there was a mention. >> there was a big dispute on that as well. >> terry? >> look, there are thousands of worthy people of come ypardons. i worked on an effort when i worked in congress for many years for two border patrol agents who were prosecuted for shooting an illegal drug smuggler. we put in two and a half years of hard work. the president of the united states george bush commute ed their sentences. president trump please pardon those guys. those are worthy people of pardons. do you think that one of the most corrupt governors in history is worthy of a par

mr. dinesh d'souza was prosecuted for a campaign finance violation which he admitted to. he apologized for. he's never sought a pardon in conjunction with that conviction. but nevertheless the president issuedhat pardon last week to dinesh d'souza and it may have just been a wild hair on the president's part, but strategically it seemed timed for the president to show off how aggressively he could flout norms and traditions for how presidents issue pardons. and why they do it and to whom. because mr. d'souza is a conservative media figure, that pardon also seemed designed to kind of wire the president's fox news base that they should cheer for his pardons, particularly ones that seem shocking or outrageous or even radical to anybody operating from a mainstream perspective or in terms of legal precedent. the president kept that up today with his online declaration this morning that of course everybody believes that he can par himself as president. almost nobody actually believes that the president can pardon himself. there's one controlling legal finding on that question f

mr. d'souza are the same people that went after my husband and they are going after the president now. it's the same m.o. they are using their offices to undo elections and play politics instead of do what they are supposed to do which is to seek justice. our system of government has a system of checks and balances for a reason. the courts and prosecutors can get it wrong whether maliciously or by accident. and it takes a strong leader like president trump to right those wrongs. judge jeanine: i think my viewers need to understand what you are saying. the guy who prosecuted your husband is a guy named fitzgerald. fitzgerald is pals with comey who put martha stewart in prison and fitzgerald is representing comey, and it's like comey, fitzgerald who have gone over to the dark side, many think, in terms of the way they are handling these cases. >> absolutely. they create crimes when there are no crimes. this is the case with my husband. it was this ridiculous selling of the senate seat was overturned on appeal years ago. people don't understand that. that was considered political log roll

mr. d'souza said he told him. >> this president is very much amplifying the message he wants to preach. this not a complicated formula. this is what is good for him as opposed to what is good for the country or a good use of this incredibly unique power that the president has. this is one of the few abilities that a president has that really is just quick and easy. his view of executive power has always been that it would be something of that. he has discovered the realities of washington that you is to go through congress and a lot has been thwarted. this something he can make happen fast. >> he's doing it because he can. >> just to underscore one more time the message he want to get out from dinesh, we don't know exactly what it is but we do know dinesh's twitter feed and one of the messages in february was about the parkland student and their grief. he said worst news since their parents told them to get summer jobs. that is the kind of vile message that dinesh expressed. >> dinesh has a history of saying vile things on tv and on twitter. in the case of dinesh and rod blagojevich, th

mr. d'souza, are the same people that went after my husband, the same people that are going after my husbandws. of course there's a debate whether the president is sending a message to his friends. frank, is this the inevitable kind of end point of the fox news presidency, people going on fox, first to lobby for pardons, then once you're pardoned, you go on to thank him? >> it's like now turning the president not just into a reality show, but a game show if the price is right, there's something behind the curtain and you get the big prize. what i find is something that is not explored enough is what are these pardons worth to some of these people? particularly martha stewart, mew thmew -- martha stewart was dissed by trump when she got in trouble with the law. and it may be another example of trolling, because she's bit up her business again and built up a brand, and how does a pardon from president trump help her? >> and i wonder if people even benefit by being speculated about and that remains to be seen. let me turn to succession, i mentioned it a minute ago, it's this new hbo series that

mr. d'souza was in the president's opinion a victim of selective prosecution for violations of campaign finance laws. former u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york preet bharara, who oversaw d'souza's case, wrote this on twitter today, quote, the president has the right to pardon, but the facts are these. d'souza intentionally broke the law, voluntarily pled guilty, apologized for his conduct, and the judge found no unfairness. the career prosecutors and agents did their job, period. d'souza wrote back on twitter, quote, bharara and his goons bludgeoned me into the plea by threatening to add a second redundant charge carrying a prison term of five years. xxxx president trump flew to texas to meet with families affected by the shooting in santa fe, and during the flight, the president returned to the subject of pardons. he told reporters onboard air force one that he's considering clemency for martha stewart and rod blagojevich. martha stewart was convicted in '04, and former democratic governor rod blagojevich is serving a 14-year prison sentence on corruption charges including try

mr. neocon, dinesh d'souza. arpaio, illegal immigrants, hate them.ding categories of people and given he's iconic person of each one of the communities. >> i argue it's three categories. as you just said, certainly, those people who have had their causes championed by conservatives, those who have had this causes championed by celebrities like jack johnson, and those who were on celebrity apprentice kwie apprentice. those are the people he knows. that's the world he knows. those are the folks he wants to send a signal with. i think there's no question whether it's flynn, manafort or other people in the probe, that's part of this too. look, i have this power. i'm not afraid -- >> do you guys all agree he will use it to protect himself? if jared kushner gets prosecuted, if his son and namesake donald junior gets nailed, will he move -- is there any doubt in your mind? >> i have doubt. >> he might not spring his son-in-law. he might not spring his daughter? >> i think the ivanka line is the red line. that's pretty clear. >> not the son? >> in law. >> i'

mr. trump says he gave dinniesh d'souza a pardon. >> he said you've been a great voice for freedom, and he said that i got to tell you man to man you've been screwed. he goes i've been looking at the case. i knew from the beginning that it was fishy. but we held an injustice had been done, and using his power he was going to kind of clear the slight. >> who could be next? rod blagojevich? martha stewart? roger stone suggested they might not be the only beneficiaries of a presidential pardon. it has to be a signal to mike flynn and paul manafort and even robert mueller, indict people for crimes that don't pertain to russian collusion, and this is what could happen. but if trump does go that route, could it backfire? joining me is the white house reporter for the los angeles times. and also still with me chris who served as the white house cabinet secretary and assistant to president obama. is there a pattern in the people that the president is giving his pardons to? >> reporter: you see a pattern of people conservatives, and people in da s'soud'souza's cas. the through line seems to be the

mr. neo-con, did i nesh d'souza, arpaio, illegal immigrants, hate them.e's finding categories of people and giving each iconic representative of each one of the communities, i like all you communities backing me. >> there's three categories certainly, those pardoned people who have had their causes championed by conservatives, those who have had their causes championed by celebrities like jackson johnson and those on "celebrity apprentice" which is martha stewart and rob blagojovich. >>. >> those are the people he knows. that's the world he knows. those are the folks he wants to send a signal with. there's no question whether 80s flynn, mst or other people in the probe, that's part of this, too. i have this power. >> do you guys agree he will use it to protect himself? if jared kushner is prosecuted will he move immediately, if his son donald junior gets nailed, will he move immediately. >> do you have any doubt in your mind? he might not spring his son-in-law. >> ivanka. >> i think the ivanka line is the red line. that's pretty clear. >> not the son. >>

dinesh d'souza hasn't done any of that. mr.son, on the other hand, can we say here the president did the right thing, but for the mrs. j is someone who, if she were sentenced today would get a much lower sentence. she got life imprisonment for a f te drug offense.that a ncern. there are many more people like her. so, we don't want to say that the president's pardon power is always wrong, but we know really so secret sign to people like -- >> this wouldn't have happened if kim kardashian hadn't come in. who do you know, are you a celebrity, well connected? that coneyism lack of process. >> let's remember people involved in the mueller probe are getting the message. george papadopoulos's wife has been on a media tour. she's been talking to as many as she can, talking to rt roers trying to make the case for a pardon for her husband. >> let's listen to that. >> we're here in the middle of pardon season. i appreciate you coming on, people who watch the show know we have people on who have been involved in the mueller probe because y

d'souza has said his prosecution was politically motivated. >> i've gone through going to jail. >> reporter: mr. trump also said he is thinking about pardoning martha stewart, who was convicted of lying to investigators about a stock trade, and commuting former illinois governor rod blagojevich's 14-year sentence for attempting to sell an appointment to the senate seat vacated by president obama. >> you're fired. >> reporter: both stewart and blagojevich have connections to mr. trump's "apprentice" television franchise. at the same point in his presidency mr. obama had not pardoned anyone, but eventually issued 212 pardons and 1,715 commutations, most for low-level drug offenders. president trump issued his first pardon last summer to controversial arizona sheriff joe arpaio. he was charged for ignoring a court order to stop profiling latinos. >> do the people in this room like sheriff joe? ( cheers ) >> reporter: historically, the justice department has reviewed pardon petitions and made recommendations to the white house, but president trump has short circuited that process, even fielding rec

d'souza. he had made illegal campaign contributions and got five years federal probation, in 2014. mr. trump also said he might commute the sentence of rod blagojevich, former democratic governor of illinois. he's serving 14 years for corruption. and, the president talked of pardoning businesswoman martha stewart. she served five months in prison, stemming from a sale of stock before the price plunged. president trump traveled to texas today, and met with families of those killed in the santa fe school shooting. governor greg abbott and republican senator ted cruz were on hand as air force one touched down in houston. the meeting with the families was closed. later, the president went on to a series of campaign fundraising events in houston and dallas. mr. trump claimed again today that ousting f.b.i. director james comey had nothing to do with the russia investigation. he tweeted: "not that it matters but i never fired james comey because of russia!" in fact, he's previously said the opposite, at least twice. the first time came within days of comey's dismissal in may of last year. >>

d'souza's preplea claim that he was selectively prosecuted." joining us now is nbc presidential historian michael beschloss. mr.great to have you here. >> wonderful to see you, not just on tv. >> exactly. we've talked before about presidents' pardon power, which is very broad in the black letter of the constitution. but looking back at watergate and what nixon got in trouble for, it struck me that nixon was going to get in trouble and knew that he was going to get in trouble and people around him knew he was going to get in trouble for dangling pardons to people who were in trouble during watergate. is that true? >> oh, absolutely. and i think you're absolutely right in saying that mate have been another article of impeachment. and that goes, as so many things in our system do, all the way back to james madison, who said that a pardon, a president can use the pardon, it's an absolute power, but if a president abuses that power that could be an impeachable offense. >> has there ever been a circumstance in which a president is thought to have pardoned someone specifically to worm his own way out of his own legal

mr. singleton. >> uh-huh. >> kim kardashian goes in, headlines everywhere. he's talking with kim kardashian about criminal justice reform. she wants pardons for two blacks. she got nothing. in fact, d'souza, who called president obama a boy and a grown-up trevant is given a pardon for what he himself was guilty of doing. criminal justice of trump, or is that an overstatement, in your opinion? >> as it specifically relates to article 2, section 2 of the constitution which grants the president power, the president has, for the most part, freedom to dictate who he's going to pardon. >> that's not the question. i don't want to go into the history of constitutional power, the question i'm raising is, under this administration, an appeal from someone he promoted as a big star to have a conversation, makes the direct appeal, and he answers it by giving them nothing and giving someone the opposite. >> according to the constitution, your question within itself is flawed, and i'll tell you why. the president, again, has the right to pardon whomever he wants, whether i like it or not, whether you like it or not. >> i'm talking about how he uses -- excuse me, sir. >> again, that is his right accordi

mr. michael milken might get a pardon. greg: he has been thinking about it, yes then talking about it, and much has been made of the d inesh d'souza and scooter libb departed this might be a signal to people. at this point, nothing has happened. manafort can still go to trial. to temptation or the dynamic keep an eye on is whether the president tried to do something unprecedented and have a preliminary -- pardon someone even before anything -- guilt has been determined. shery: what has been the reaction so far in washington? kevin: with regards to pardoning, the president has not shown the usual showing of support from republican leadership, notably house speaker paul ryan. all of these republicans in the upper echelon of republican leadership has been very, very cautious. the president on the issue of self pardoning and even on the issue of pardoning other individuals, like greg mentioned. beyond that, some of the most conservative members of congress have shown to have support for the president on these particular issues. but should the president loose some of the support of those that i just mentioned, including republican lead

d'souza was prosecuted by former u.s. attorney and cnn contributor preet bharara, who trump fired. in the case of martha stewart, the prosecutor was james comey. let's see. mr. blagojevich was convicted of 18 charges, sentenced to 14 years in prison. but when you look at this, when you look at that, it's preet bharara or whether it's anyone else who is connected to the president, is this settling scores? >> so i actually think it's more. i mean, look. it's -- i'm not a huge believer in coincidence, don. certainly not in politics. so i'm not willing to dismiss that. my belief is the prime mover, the prime motivator here, and donald trump said this on air force one on the way to texas today. he was asked about dinesh d'souza. and he said i never really met him. i called him last night. boy, was he surprised. i heard him on the radio and saw him on television. that to me is part of this too. martha stewart was on "the apprentice." rod blagojevich was on "the apprentice." dinesh d'souza, scooter libby was to a certain extent sticking it in the eye of the bush administration who weren't willing to -- remember, george w. bush was strongly lobbied by dick cheney a