. >> mr. fink?airman issa, ranking member cummings, members of the committee, my name is faris fink. i am the commissioner with the small business self-employed division of internal revenue service. i appreciate the opportunity to appear here today. i have worked for the internal revenue service for 32 years, starting as a grade 7 revenue officer in ohio. i became the commissioner of the small business self-employed operating division in may of 2011. i am proud to be an irs employee and serve alongside thousands of dedicated public servants who administer our tax laws. my division has 24,000 employees and it accounts for majority of the $50 billion that the irs collects in enforcement revenue each year. the meeting we held in 2010 was to train 2600 managers from 350 offices across the country. we needed to insure that they had the tools to lead their employees and adapt to major changes that were occurring. at the time of this meeting, almost 30% of our managers were new or had only been managers wi

i think mr. fink today in testimony as depighted in -- depicted tonight may have gotten himself in hot water. he seems, to me, claiming he doesn't know how expensive the $4.1 expenditure was but it was pointed out to him he, in fact, signedan estimate of the cost that was $4.3 million, so either he knew about it or he didn't know about it, and as you say, lou, his is one i sort of a cascading series of %-we've gotten from irs officias and, frankly, members of the backup administration about this paicular scale. lou: ad now we have, chis, the president, if you will, closing ranks. the post, susan rice to the nation security adiser, not requiring confirmation. if i've ever seen a ore rational security team, i can't imagine who it would b >> well, i do know that the chances of us bmbing syria has gone way up, a western intervention in syria's much more likely. this is a signal that the interventionist approach taken in libya is very likely now to be put forward in syria. there's a genocide there already,

mr. fink, commissioner of the small is this and self employed division at the irs. pursuant to the rules of the committee, but all three witnesses rise, raise your right hand to take the oath. or affirmemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> i do. like but the record reflect all witnesses -- >> let the record reflect all witnesses answered in the affirmative. there is one opening between the two of you, mr. george. thank you again for being here. i know we will rely on you for a number of questions. we appreciate that. i also appreciate the fact that you created a relationship with the acting commissioner that i believe is going to provide a great deal of transparency without redundancy by committees. i like to recognize -- george, do you want to make any comments ?irst question mark >> yes. today's testimony highlights the results of our audit, a virus confident running for 2010 audit of the--our irs from 2010-2012. we

>> mr. fink, are you familiar with this guy? >> this is the gsa official in the hot tub. have you ever seen that picture? >> i have seen that picture, yes, jury mr. george, in your report you have squirting fish as part of $64,000. is any one -- has any one seen a squirting fish. did you see one at the conference? >> no, sir,, i did not. >> mr. fink, we have what we understand is the swag from the event. it also included i'm kind of confused by saying this, a plastic squirting fish. why would people get a plastic squirting fish? >> congressman, as i mentioned, i honestly have no idea what the plastic squirting fish was. >> when did you think that something was wrong here? did you ever think something was wrong here? you are in charge. this is what is so infuriating. you are in charge. >> while your fellow he americans are losing their jobs and their health insurance and their homes you do not spend $4 million at a conference for which there is no accountability. >> i'm in the wrong business. i never got a plastic squirting fish ever. joining me with reaction, former speake

>> mr. fink you agree $4 million for a conference is the inappropriate use of american taxpayer dollars? mr. fink, will you be resigning any time soon? so, that we can stop running here, will you teak one moment to apologize to our audience of taxpayers for your actions? thank you very much, sir. >> greta: congressman tray gowdy joins us. i have talked to so many people in washington who say to me it was only $4 million. nothing compared in the grand scheme of things and i thought to myself people in my hometown must be so enraged when they lost jobs, federal employees who work hard like federal prosecutors across the county. finally you were able to i think really drive the point home that this is a big deal. people got furloughed while they are out partying. that is stealing. >> yeah, greta, when i listen to elijah's hopin elijah's opes and he was talking about bumping into people in his neighborhood. 2010 you are living like a king going to a conference, gowdy what were you doing? i was tellin

gregg: well, that guy, mr. fink, actually played mr. spock in the star trek parody. us now, congressman james lankford, a republican from oklahoma. he sits on the committee holding today's hearing, also chairman of the republican policy committee. congressman, thanks for taking a few minutes. i have to guess that most americans are aghast and angry over the kind of things we're now learning. we're just going to put it up on the screen for them to read. it's $50 million spent on 225 conferences, 2,600 managers flown to california. they spent $4.1 million on that conference. $135,000 for event planners, $60,000 for a video. my favorite was $11,000 for a happiness expert. congressman, should all the people who organized and approved these conferences be fired? >> they should have strict discipline if not gone entirely. these -- a conference costing more than $100,000 had to go up the food chain and be approved by higher-ups. this was approved by higher-ups, and that's what's amazing. there's supposed to be an accountability network built in so this doesn't happen. even

this was an april 2010. >> clarify that for me question my >> mr. fink sign on this? -- clarify that for me. mr. think signed on this? >> for estimated $4.3 million conference at that time. >> when did you realize this was wrong? you sign the authorization before it happened. >> two minutes for questioning. >> i do not know the collective we is. >> that will be noted for the record. >> you personally sign the document, with the dollars on it come up before the conference. would you agree? >> i signed -- i initialed the statements. >> what does that mean to you? the of any responsibility? >> -- >> that include the cost of the conference question mark likes conference question mark >> that included a discussion. >> you do not think that was wrong? >> because of a we were experiencing. >> what was that? >> i hold the taxpayer base -- whole new taxpayer base. >> you testified, you thought it was wrong when he be came -- when you became aware of the expenses. you participate in meetings understanding the cost before the conflict happen. no you here climbing responsibility i

>> mr. fink, are you familiar with this guy? this is the gsa official in the hot tub? ver seen that picture? >> i have seen that picture, yes, sir. >> mr. george, in your report, you have squirting fish as part of $64,000. has anyone, anyone seen a squirting fish? did you see one at the conference? >> no, sir, i did not. >> mr. fink, we have what we understand is the swag bag from the event. what was in these swag bags, it also included, i'm kind of confused by saying, this is a plastic squirting fish. why would people get a plastic squirting fish? >> congressman, as i mentioned, i honestly have no idea what the plastic squirting fish was. >> when did you think that something was wrong here? >> in -- >> did you ever think something was wrong here? you're in charge. this is what is so infuriating. you're in charge!. >> while your fellow americans are losing their jobs and their health insurance and their homes, you do not spend million at a conference for which there is no accountability. martha: stickening, back and forth, right? think about hard-earned money and tax do

. >> greg: i like the little card mr. fink, anyway, rat fink. what can he do as americans right now. it seems like a golden opportunity to go after a bloated bureaucracy, clean it out and create something. making star trek joints is pointless if there is no purpose. >> kimberly: enough of the irs. they can't do their own accounting. they didn't keep track of it. they are sorry because they got caught. otherwise as the best time of their life and they were looking forward to do it next year. they are an albatros on the taxpayer. if you don't pay your taxes you can go to jail. another a minimum they should lose their job. >> bob: there more waste in department of defense and retired generals and started a business. >> why are you picking on generals. >> greg: look over here at this. it's not a defense. what about the american public feel about like this. 68% said they think irs was motivated by that. i'm high. >> 65% of democrats. >> even if they with would be defensive for president obama, they do think government, government in power is too abus

i think mr. finkn his testimony in the mike emanuel pacge may have gotten himself in real hot water. he seems to me h didn't know how expensive the expeiture was and he had in fact found an estimate of the cost that was $4.3 million. either he did know about it or didn't know about it and this is one of the cascading series of misrepresentions and ls we've gotten from irs officials and members of the obama administration about this particular scandal. >> lou: now we have the president, if you will, closing ranks. samantha power to the united nations post now held by susan rice. susan rice national security advisor, not requiring confirmation. this if i've ever seen a more radical national security am, i crtainly can't imagine who it would be. >>> well, i do know that the chances of us bombing stuff in syria has gone way up. a western intervention in syria is much more likely. this this is a signal that the approach that was taken in libya is now to be put forward in syria. there has been a genocide al

. >> mr. fink, what were you thinking?e fact of the matter is, it's embarrassing i apologize. >> reporter: he said he watched the video a number of times ahead of time. >> i have looked at it over again, i swear i do not see the redeeming value. >> and who authorized spending $4 million on one conference? >> i didn't come aware of massive expense until much later. i did not know the expense at the time of the conference. >> reporter: but he answered differently that he had signed with the document with the estimated $4.3 million? >> you signed off on a routing slip. you participated in meetings understanding the costs before the conference happened. are you here claiming no responsibility at this point? >> absolutely not. i was aware of the cost when we did the estimated costs of 4.3, when we did the briefing for the two deputy commissioners. >>> on the targeting conservative groups, they told congressional investigators that an irs lawyer in washington carter hull closely oversaw her work and said quote, i essentially was

mr. spock is irs official ferris fink. there was this question for mr. fink. >> what were you thinking?s embarrassing. and i apologize. >> he said he regrets the videos were ever made. got ready for this. i hope you're sitting down. an inspector general report we went through and found. this the irs spent $50,187 on videos for this conference. of which 2,400 was used to construct a mock set of the star ship enterprise. it took 62 staff hours to produce the final video. and $4.1 million were spent on the conference. at least they think because supporting documents, ie receipts, are missing. yeah. it has been 672 days since u.s. lost its top credit rating. behavior like that may be part of the reason why. what are we doing to get it back? stocks bounced back today. >>> and now our fourth story "outfront," george zimmerman denied tonight in a pivotal pretrial hearing today, a florida judge denied a request by zimmerman's defense team to allow certain witnesses to testify confidentially. he is facing second-degree murder charges in the shooting death of 17-year-old trayvon martin. his trial

. >> mr. fink had seen it. known as offkneely who threw his own ritzy retreat several years guy. others were not impressed with mr. spock's apology. mike emanuel on capitol hill for us. mike? >> one government conference costing more than $4 million during a serious recession. the question is who authorized that the? >> i think now retrospect and looking back that you take a look at the expenses, we should have been more diligent in our responsibility to the american taxpayer and to the american public. >> and you are in charge of this group, right? >> at this time i am, yes. >> and you were the number two at the time of the conference? >> yes,. >> i when did it strike you that this was wrong? >> as i said -- >> when you got called to testify before congress is that -- >> no, no, sir. >> as for the deputy irs commissioner who dressed up like mr. spock on the taxpayer dime. a democrat on the committee was not impressed. >> i was concerned by the video that the chairman showed us and not only was it a monumental

mr. fink, were you mr. spock in that video? that is correct. >> holman: an inspector general's report found the i.r.s. spent nearly $50 million on 225 conferences over two years. fink said today new rules now put much lower limits on training and travel expenses. senate democrats and republicans blocked each other's proposals today to keep student loan interest rates from doubling. republicans wanted to tie rates on federally subsidized stafford loans to ten-year treasury notes, meaning they would rise as the economy gains. democrats sought to extend the current 3.4% rate for the next two years. barring congressional action, the rate goes to 6.8% on july first. new jersey governor chris christie has named his state attorney general, jeff chiesa, as interim u.s. senator. he succeeds long-serving democrat frank lautenberg, who died earlier this week. christie said today the new senator will serve just four months, and will not be a candidate in an october special election. >> i made him the offer, as i told you, he texted me the

mr. fink, good to have you on the program. thanks so much for talking about it with us.easure, maria. >> see you soon. >>> batten down the hatches. find out how much tropical storm andrea is packing as she races up the eastern seaboard. we'll take you live from north carolina next to show you where that storm is head next. >>> and speaking of punch, yeah, dolph lundgren hitting the new york stock exchange. find out which venture the hollywood movie star is about to break into. back in a flash with dolph. man: how did i get here? dumb luck? or good decisions? ones i've made. ones we've all made. about marriage. children. money. about tomorrow. here's to good decisions. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. ready to plan for your family's future? we'll help you get there. otherworldly things. but there are some things i've never seen before. this ge jet engine can understand 5,000 data samples per second. which is good for business. because planes use less fuel, spend less time on the gro

mr. fink. >> i am the commissioner of the small business self employed division at the irs. i appreciate the opportunity to appear here today. i worked for the irs for 32 years, starting as a grade seven worker in ohio. i became commissioner of this division inmate 2011. i'm proud to be a irs employee. my division has 24,000 employees and accounts for the majority of the 50 million dollars that the irs -- $50 billion the irs collects it enforcement each year. we train 26 hundred managers from across the country. we need to ensure they have the tools to lead employees and adapt a major changes occurring. at the time, this meeting, almost 30% of the managers were new or only have been managers within a two-year period. another focus was employee safety. there have been an increase increase in the number security threats against employees. it is important to point out that we follow irs and government procedures that were in place at the time. the treasury inspector general's office --we are now in a different environment and there are new procedures in place. in hindsight, man

mr. fink, who was featured as mr. spock in that video. he said he apologized. it was a poor u.s.f irs funding. back to you. adam: there is proof, irs has gone where no man has gone before. thank you very much. >> very good. tracy: oh, my god. one too many "star trek" references. adam: "star trek" geek. tracy: you're killing me. josh our stage manager appreciate this. never seen a "star trek" episode either. >>> coming up another another scandal for the white house. nsa reportedly tracking phone records of millions of americans. that story coming up. adam: plus the business of offbeat investments. sports collectibles can bring you big money. expert brandon steiner tells us how to play the potentially high yield market coming up. first time to check how oil is trading right now. this is america. we don't let frequent heartburn come between us and what we love. so if you're onethem people who gets heartburn and then treats day afr day... block the acid with prilosec otc and don't get heartburn in the first place! [ male announcer ] e pill eachmorning. 24 hours. zero heartbur this is

and so i say we can do better. , theuess what -- mr. finkmoney that was spent on that, that is my money. that is the lady who got the early us this morning, that is her money. the one who makes $35,000. her. the gentleman up the street from he who makes 45,000. hauling trash. that is their money. and so it was wasted. in my district, i can tell you $50,000 is a huge amount for families who are struggling to get by. that is more than many households make in this country. unfortunately, this was only part of a broader problem which was the growth of the conference spending over the past decade. the inspector general's report report finds the irs spent approximately $48.6 million on conferences over the past three fiscal years, from 2010 to 2012, but the irs spent far more than that in the three prior fiscal years, from 2007 to 2009. when the irs spent an astonishing $72 million on conferences. mr. george, the scope of your inquiry was limited. but let me say this, mr. chairman, it would be legislative malpractice, legislative malpractice if we

ferris fink played mr. spock. lawmakers want to talk to him and other witnesses about the culture of spending at the, an agency growing in power. >> when you consider their role in implementing the affordable care act, they ought to be terrified. so what congress ought to be doing is figuring out a way to replace the irs with something that is respected and has the confidence of the american people and let the prosecutors figure out who goes to jail. >> gowdy, a former federal prosecutor says congress should continue its investigation and a special prosecutor should be named to look into the most serious allegations. shep? >> shepard: mike emanuel on capitol hill. it was a massacre. a u.s. soldier pleaded guilty today to murdering 16 civilians civilians in afghn last year. most of them women and children. victims' relatives say they are outraged that staff sergeant robert bales will avoid the death penalty now that is a judge has accepted his plea deal. sentencing set for august. lawyer says sergeant bailey suffer

the head of the irs small business division, ferris fink, starred as mr.r trek" parody, one of three videos shown at a conference that ended up costing taxpayers $4 million back in 2010. today he offered lawmakers an apology. >> it would not occur today, based upon all the guidelines that exist and, frankly, they were not appropriate at that time neither, mr. chairman, and the fact of the matter is is, it's embarrassing and i apologize. >> but fink clashed with utah representative, jason chaffetz, over his lack of planning leading up to that anaheim conference. >> when did you become aware of the massive expense? >> i actually did not become aware of the massive expense until much later. i did not know what the expense was at the time of the conference, that we were paying. i did not know what those expenses were. >> and you're the number two person in that division? >> yeah -- >> and you're oblivious to the expenses? >> as i -- >> you're totally ignorant of the expenses? >> now, the irs spent nearly $50 million on some 225 conferences between 2012 and 201

we are looking at fink and he is dressed up like, i guess that is mr. of star wars because in one of their little parties the theme was star wars and he was playing spock. none of them know anything. they don't know anything. >> it's just our money. >> bill: yeah, lois lerner. >> it's other peoples money. >> bill: this is what happens in a banana republic. in a banana republic where leadership is non-existent the government does what it wants. every department does what it wants to do. the head of accountability guy, eric holder is too busy tapping phones and doing this stuff. can't be bothered with stuff like that. >> the idea that they have these team buildings conferences where a bunch of bureaucrats from field offices in washington, i guess they go to other cities like anaheim or las vegas. they are away from the families and whoop it up for several days and do stupid videos. they build the star wars bridge -- did you see that the bridge from star wars, cost $50,000 just to make the video and build the set for the video. -- star trek. meanwhile, ame

mr. spock? it's actually an irs official. ferris fink.will testify today to the house oversight committee and responded to respond to the report that the irs spent 50 million dollars on hundreds of conferences over a two-year span. the dow closes below 15,000 for the first time in a month and looking flat to lower this morning. and down about 17 points. probably. meredith whitney is here and we'll get her takes on the markets and her new book and a whole lot more after this. wwent out and asked people a simple question: how old is the oldest person you've known? we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we arned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're ling longer, one thing that hasn't changed muc is the official retirement age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of these years. ♪ if you have high cholesterol, here's some information that may be worth looking into. in a clinical trial versus lipitor, crestor got more h

fink. his deputy commissioner. not a fake name. all he wants to do is use your and my $50,000 -- shell shell isn't that brillat? >> to play mr.y did was they spent 49 million on 225 motivational conferences in three years. that's almost two weeks motivational conferences. the first thing, who in his right mind wants irs agents motivated. >> shepard: who wants to go to one of these things anyway? i feel bad for employees. what wants to go to one as those student things, dance around on stage. >> if you look at this video, it's hilarious, the worst movie since my uncle howie's video of his trip to yugoslavia in 1975. these are accountants trying to act. it makes adam sandler look like sir lawrence olivier. these are accountants. >> shepard: if you were working for them now, it's ph.d, piled higher and deeper. what too you tell them to do? >> the acting commissioner this week is danny werfel. an adult -- >> shepard: a great football player. >> terrific. what i would tell him to do is, sit down, suspend the conferences. suspend them. then go over them one -- go over the requests one-by-one, and see if they pass the glare of publi

fink said no rules were broken. >> they would not occur today based upon all the guidelines that exist, and frankly, they were not appropriate at that time, either, mr. chairman, and the fact of the matter is, it's embarrassing. >> two irs workers could lose their jobs over the scandal. they were placed on leave yesterday for accepting free food at a private suite during that conference. >>> we have a little storm system called andrea heading our way. >> just a little storm system. if you've been waiting for some rain -- >> it could be a big day for you tomorrow. >> it's a big day for you tomorrow and even tonight. i do think we're going to continue seeing that rain move in over the next couple hours. it's going to be heavy. rain coming in right now. that's going to slow down traffic all across the region, so if you were heading outside or beginning to think about heading somewhere, give yourself extra time throughout the night. i do expect to see fairly heavy rain in portions of the region. anywhere you have these yell lows and oranges, that's where the heaviest rain is. if through culpeper county, montgomery county. not a whole lot down through so