ms. mitchell was working. >> anderson we're learning that someone complained about a questionable relation shen between joyce mitchell who's also known as tilly and one of the inmates, which we believe may have been david sweat. though there have been some sinuations with the other man who was working with the tailor shop. unclear as to what the questionable relationship was about. the corrections officers did investigate. and when the two escaped, i believe investigators were very quickly able to turn their attention to this woman simply because of her connection. >> and that's why they were able to check her cell phone and know it was used to contact some associates? >> that's exactly right. multiple calls were made to an associate, richard max. they believe she made those calls on her behalf or alternatively, they took that phone and made that cole themselves. that's a bigger indication. who were they talking to outside of the prison walls and who did they expect to possibly help them when they did ultimately escape. >> so we don't know for sure i know the wall street journal and abc ha

ms. mitchell. i have talked with the investigators briefly who are conducting the interviews. i don't have that information for you. >> fair enough. andrew wily appreciate your time. thank you very much. john wallch ofsh of cnn's "the hunt" few people have his knowledge or experience. just how good are law enforcement professionals who work on all fours. gary tuchman shows us what tracker dogs can do. we got the new tempur-flex and it's got the spring and bounce of a traditional mattress. you sink into it, but you can still move it around. now that i have a tempur-flex, i can finally get a good night's sleep. when i flop down on the bed, and it's just like, 'ah, this is perfect.' wherever you put your body it just supports you. like little support elfs are just holding you. i can sleep now! through the night! (vo) change your sleep. change your life. change to tempur-pedic. >>> welcome back. moments ago you may have heard the district attorney of clinton county on this program say dogs are on the scent of david sweat and richard matt and confirms joyce mitchell was the subject

ms. mitchell was just as manipulative as these two inmates were. he trusted her, he didn't have a close relationship with her, but she was able to do this with many other individuals who worked inside the prison, i'm told. >> you mean she gave things this other individuals to sneak into the prison? >> i wouldn't go that far, but she did in fact manipulate the guards to do other things for inmates that she was close to. >> did mr. palmer explain at all why he didn't have any suspicions about this? i mean is this a common practice that you know people would kind of do favor for inmates? >> well when the district attorney released the information today he stated himself it was common practice for the inmates to be able to cook inside of their cells. so from what i've been told from the district attorney themselves it is common practice pretty much. >> but if they're able to cook inside the cell there must be some accepted procedure for them to purchase meat or whatever they're going to cook is there? >> there is they can get it through the commissary

ms. mitchell, you're here for purposes of being arraigned. but, before we get to that, i want to place on the record an indication that court has a written application for audiovisual recording of this proceeding. and there have been oral applications that have been made, as well. as at this point, mr. bruno, as you can see, the single tv camera and the single still camera in position to go ahead go ahead with that. i'd like to get your input on whether or not you consent to that activity taking place? >> for purposes of this court appearance, your honor. >> it's charged here with two offenses meaning misdemeanor criminal in the fourth degree and promoting contraband in the first degree. criminal facilitation being violation of section 115 subject 1 of the penal law and the contraband charge being in violation of 5.25, subdivision 1 of the penal law of the states of new york. do you waive a formal reading of those charges, mr. bruno? >> yes, your honor. we now will proceed to complaints of court clerks. >> all right. and with respect to the m

ms. mitchell was just as manipulative as these two inmates were. >> a new look at the inner workings of the prison when two killers broke free as hundreds of officers chased their trail. >> my gut is if they're here, we're going to find them. >>> also a growing chorus to take down the confederate flag. but not everyone's on board. >> get back to summerville. >>> four years after his wife congresswoman gabby giffords was shot in a mass shooting mark kelly is speaking out about charleston. let's talk, live in the "cnn newsroom." good morning. i'm carol costello. thank you so much for joining me. bribed with baked goods? we begin with stunning new details about joyce mitchell the prison worker who helped two convicted killers break free. a law enforcement official telling cnn mitchell traded sweet treats with guards in exchange for favors for inmates richard matt and david sweat. also new this morning, we now know mitchell brought frozen beef laced with hacksaw blades into the main gate of the prison, according to the prosecutor. she then stored the c

ms. mitchell what she needed to know in order to help them out. so that's always a possibility. and i'm not even sure if you know if they thought this through correctly. they may have been able to put stuff out there that had their clothes on or something to where the dogs would follow a scent. if they only had five to seven hours and nobody was there to help them they could have ran, you know as far as they could down the road and gotten quite a ways away before they went into the woods. it's just -- you know when you're on your own in the woods, if you don't have experience you have to have water and eventually you have to have food. >> we heard miguel marquez talking about the swollen rivers there and the strawberries and blueberries growing wild there. so then, casey to hear the d.a. say that according to conversations, you know with ms. mitchell that possibly they had address rehearsals how much does that tell you about their level of confidence that even if they had a plan a that perhaps their plan b just might be as effective? >> because everything they have told her and

ms. mitchell was that manipulatable that others may have been, too.hink that that may be getting help currently or that they were only getting that help to break out? >> i think they were getting that help to break out. i think they took time, i think they had some people on the outside. i think that they knew exactly what they were going to do and i know they knew this was a one in a lifetime shot. if they're able to do this thing and obviously they were able to plan this thing well because they were in the honors section, they cut these holes out, they were able to go back and forth and work on their plan. this is an elaborate escape that really when you're talking about being able to get out of the cell, go look at the spot, make sure everything is in place, that's why they left the because they were so brash and confident that this was going to work. we've got them thinking tell the authorities one thing, we know they're going in another direction. as far as the candy wrappers and the grass, that could have been any number of people. they say the

ms. mitchell. tailor shop supervisor accused of smuggling hacksaw blades and chisels to help convicted killers david sweat and richard matt escape. >> joyce talked to him about ler involved. >> mitchell's last attorney assigned to the case says she's pled not guilty. >> what has she told you? >> i can't get into that. >> reporter: mirchel was investigated with a sexual relationship with sweat according to sources. then it was matt who later charmed her. we now know they used multi.markings or directions to navigate the complex pipe system before they escaped. mitchell was to be their getaway driver, says the da but got cold feet and never showed. >> they absolutely were using her, no question about it. >> mitchell planned to start a new life with the convict, saying they would drive seven hours towards the woods with an unknown location. >> if there is a plan b or a plan c and someone else picked them up they could have got anywhere. >> now the da says mitchell may not have been the only one involve

ms. mitchell. >> reporter: the tailor shop supervisor accused of smuggling hacksaw blades and chisels to help convicted killers david sweat and richard matt escape. >> joyce talked to him about her involvement during the last few days before she was arrested. >> reporter: mitchell's new attorney assigned to the case today says only she's pled not guilty. >> what has she told you? >> can't get into that. >> reporter: multiple sources familiar with the investigation tell nbc news mitchell was investigated for a sexual relationship with sweat. then it was matt who later charmed her. we now know sweat and matt used multiple markings or directions to navigate the complex pipe system before their escape. mitchell was to be their getaway driver says the d.a. but got cold feet and never showed. >> they absolutely were using her. there's no question about it. >> reporter: the d.a. says mitchell planned to start a new life with the convicts saying they would drive seven hours toward the woods to an unknown location. >> if there is a plan b or even a plan c and someone else picked them up they coul

ms. joyce mitchell was back in court today. andrea? >> our thanks to miguel almaguer there from plattsburgh. >>> breaking news to report from spokane, washington rachel dolezal has stepped down as spokane's washington chapter of the naacp. resignation comes amid a growing controversy over her claims that she lied -- or claims that she lied about being african-american. this morning on the "today" show dole czar's estrangezal dolezal's estranged parents spoke about her. we're live here in concorde new hampshire. today on the trail, following the two biggest names in the race for the white house. today it is hillary clinton who is here to kick off her campaign, first public rally in this first primary state. tomorrow it will be jeb bush. coming up next what this trip means for the clinton campaign. the race for the white house right here. this is "andrea mitchell reports" live from new hampshire. (music) boys? (music) stop less. go more. the passat tdi clean diesel with up to 814 hwy miles per tank. hurry in and you can get 0% apr plus a

ms. mitchell. >> reporter: joyce mitchell was quiet in court today but has been quite candid behind closed doors, sharing details about the plan to pick up richard matt and david sweat aided by tools she allegedly provided and shuttle them to a secluded spot seven hours away. it's been reported that it allegedly involved killing joyce's husband lyle. >> asked if they were going to take any type of physical action to harm lyle mitchell, i'm not going to comment on that. >> reporter: mitchell just met her lawyer a few minutes before today's hearing because her assigned public defender stepped aside due to a conflict of interest. schools that had been closed reopened and nervous parents sent their kids back to class. back at the scene of the crime, the manhole has been sealed shut just a city block away from a cell block being investigated by new york's governor andrew cuomo. he wants an independent investigator to quote, report back on what steps need to be taken to insure this situation is not repeated. now a push to answer questions. >> why weren't they checked every 30 minutes? why are th

ms. mitchell. >> reporter: joyce mitchell was quiet in court today but has been quite candid behind closed doors, sharing details about the plan to pick up richard matt and david sweat aided by tools she allegedly provided and shuttle them to a secluded spot seven hours away. it's been reported that it allegedly involved killing joyce's husband lyle. >> asked if they were going to take any type of physical action to harm lyle mitchell, i'm not going to comment on that. >> reporter: mitchell just met her lawyer a few minutes before today's hearing because her assigned public defender stepped aside due to a conflict of interest. schools that had been closed reopened and nervous parents sent their kids back to class. back at the scene of the crime, the manhole has been sealed shut just a city block away from a cell block being investigated by new york's governor andrew cuomo. he wants an independent investigator to quote, report back on what steps need to be taken to insure this situation is not repeated. now a push to answer questions. >> why weren't they checked every 30 minutes? why are th

ms. mitchell, based on our investigation has not provided power tools. has not provided any form of power tools to east sweat or matt. -- to either sweat or matt. >> reporter: the district attorney did say however, that mitchell did provide the inmates with contraband, but he would not elaborate. at in the hour jon, according to new york's governor, it is possible these two inmates could be as far away as mexico or, in his words 4 miles from the prison which is not far from where i am now standing. jon? jon: and nerves still very much on edge there where you are. david lee miller, thanks. so as police question prison worker joyce mitchell, we're going to take a closer look at the serious ramifications involved if she helped two murderers break out. our legal panel here in about 15 minutes with that. jenna: well, hillary clinton hoping to turn the page after recent scandals. clinton is set to hold the first big rally of her presidential campaign in new york city tomorrow. will the speech be a game changer? our political panel will be here to discuss. >>>

ms. mitchell but at this point in time those issues are being i >> reporter: the convicts may have accesso power tools. authorities are installing motion detectors and surveillance cameras in the woods near the prison to try to catch the escapees. don champion cbs news plattesburg new york. >> the attorney general will investigate the murderers and their escape and a separate probe in to the criminal case. >>> two clergy leaders turned in today. pope francis accepted the resignation of that area's archbishop john nistead and his deputy. he's the second u.s. bishop in the catholic church to resign as a result of clergy sex abuse. >>> demonstrators gathered today outside the smithsonian museum of national history. they were calling on the smithsonian to cut all ties to the fossil fuel industry including high profile businessmen. >> they took david koch off of their board. he spent more than $79 million [ inaudible ] >> among the groups at the protest, forecast the facts interface moral action on climate and calling itself the national history museum. >>> what a cnn anchor said about a gunma

ms. mitchell is cooperating 100%, she doesn't pick them up. is there a plan b?he was never supposed to pick then up. a lot of what ifs going on. >> if they were playing her -- >> sure. she probably didn't even know she was being played and they did have somebody else involved and somebody else picked them up. they crawl out of a manhole and leave a note, have a nice date? if mitchell doesn't show up, they're not going to leave that. there's a manhunt and a fugitive investigation. >> how is this going to end? what is their mindset? >> law enforcement has their hands full. they had an elaborate plan to get out of there, suicide by cop, i have no idea. but they're going to take enough precautions if they corner them. there's a lot of unanswered questions. >> if they're together, they split up. >> they need each other, they've been together since 2008. so they lived side by side. they were in the yard together, they ate together. so if in fact they're in the woods, contained in this perimeter, they're feeding off of each other. law enforcement gets close, they'll zi

ms. mitchell is true and she didn't pick them up they have to go to plan c at this point.god knows what they are doing. >> even to change their appearances if they haven't already they need money to do that. thank you. >>> here now with more is the bounty hunter. what would you do to try to fjét these guys? >> i would be doing probably exactly the same thing the cops are to wait until they make a mistake. everything has changed now because now the girlfriend has admitted that she was the accomplice. i thought that they had a very elaborate plan as soon as they got out of the man hole they put the sticky note and took off. now that she admitted it that means they are in the area because she was supposed to pick them up. the sightings might be them. their wholesé.éñ plan changed. now the luck is not on their side anymore. everything has changed. now they are on the streets. now they become victims of the u.s. marshals and bounty hunters. now is when we can catch them. right now is when we can catch them. >> what are the odds they stick together as opposed to splitting up? >>

ms. mitchell. >> reporter: the woman investigators say aided the two in the daring escape behind bars and feeling the weight of what happened. this according to her attorney. >> she's distraught. she's weeping and upset. >> reporter: joyce mitchell's only visitor today, her husband lisle that went to see her today t. that visit lasted about an hour. there was no physical contact between the two. they spoke over the phone and they were separated by a glass partition. >> all i know is that he said he's standing by her, so that's what he told me when i spoke to him. >> reporter: joyce mitchell's role in the escape becoming for clear. investigators say she may have agreed to be the duo's get away driver after matt and/or sweat threatened her and her husband. law enforce the looking at loyal mitchell with he may have known something about the escape plan. the mitchell's daughter-in-law that defended joyce mitchell told cnn by phone today, i have nothing to say about my mother-in-law's arrest and paige mitchell said she would not comment on allegations her father in law is under investigation.

ms. mitchell the truth on what their plan "c" or "d" is if she doesn't show up? >> correct.th mr. matt but he definitely wasn't in love wither h. he was using her. the prison said all their power tools are accounted for. so this raises the question was she actually smuggling in power tools. it might be relatively easy to smuggle power tools in, let them use them at night, get them back. they were in the honors cell block. >> what is that honors cell block? what does that give you? >> inmates over time once they prove that they are trustworthy and basically compliant, if they're following all the rules and don't get tickets for violations, they can slowly and gradually over years get privileges that put them in a particular wing where the guards over time -- it's kind of a war of attrition where they begin to trust them more and more the guards, the c.o.s actually do lose their hypervigilance. and this would mean they're not checking for contraband as easily. these guys are really manipulative. they have two faces, the ones they put on for the guards and of course for ms. mit

ms. mitchell is still being questioned by authorities, and what about her husband who was also an employee at the prison? >> we don't know if that questioning is still going on. officials were quite clear yesterday that joyce mitchell was not in custody, she was not under arrest. she was speaking to them voluntarily. and her husband, lyle who does also work in the prison in the same area in the tailor shop where both the two escaped inmates worked has -- we don't know if he's being interviewed as well. officials have not described him as a person of interest the same way they have described joyce mitchell as a person of interest. we do know that they are not at home. we've been by their home. no one -- their neighbors don't know where they are. and according to tobey, tobey told stephanie gosk that officials have contacted him asking him about his parents' whereabouts, and he doesn't know where they are, either. >> and what can you tell us about this home-to-home search that's happening today? >> well it's going on right now, tamron. at the other end of this street on the other side of the

ms. mitchell. most people believe she was so manipulated by them they're not sure how much they told her was true and how much other help they may have had from her or from others outside the prison. the search because they have no other real intense area to search right now is still going on very close to the prison itself. we're just in a shadow of the clinton correctional facility down a road called ryan road. there are corrections officers all the way down it. they have shotguns and that is what residents are dealing with in this entire area. then they have hundreds of other corrections officers go through the woods as individuals like this are sort of protecting the perimeter and making sure no one can get out of this small, probably three or four square miles of territory that they are concentrating on. they have been through the houses whether there are people living in them or whether they are summer homes over and over again. checking on residents making sure nothing has changed, nothing h

ms. mitchell was just as manipulative as these two inmates were. >> a new look at the inner workings of theas hundreds of officers chased their trail. >> my gut is if they're here, we're going to find them. >>> also a growing chorus to take down the confederate flag.

ms. mitchell helped. they remain at large. the cnn original series, "the seventies" starts now. >> tonight television take is a look at itself. >> what's on the idiot box? >> it's only an idiot box if an idiot is watching. >> our obligation is to entertainment. why have left something to think about, so much the better. >> charges were leveled at the commercial television networks. >> congress has no right to interfere in the media. we have responsibility to give the audience what it tuned in to see. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> the years of the '60s which end in a few hours have a bad reputation that is not entirely justified. some things got worse, obviously. but tv and other news coverage is better, not worse. we simply developed more demanding standards. >> when i look at tv i think of the '70s. >> what is this world coming to? >> the american public was hungry for more. >> more was allowed that hadn't been before. >> it was the last decade where it was a campfire television, where there was one in the living room. >> i want to watch an

ms. mitchell. i think it was using her to get what he wanted which ultimately was the escape. >> is it common to see prison employees establish relationships with prisoners like we've seen here possibly? >> what we've seen with people who train correctional officers they constantly warn and get them to understand that they could be a mark. and yes there are relationships, some of the relationships are healthy, some are the proper relationships where the officer is the superior but in this particular case, this was turned upside down and when that happens, when the prisoner is the one who has the power, that's when things go completely awry as we saw in this situation. >> as always grateful for your comments. thanks for joining us here tonight. >> thank you rev ran the. >>> up next breaking news out of ohio in the case of tamir rice. later, congress could put mystery meat back on the menu. the rapid response panel tells us what it means for consumers and ranchers. time upon a once people approached

ms. mitchell and him. >> reporter: palmer's former attorney said he didn't know the hamburger meat he carriedst one of the inmates had tools in it. >> he was continued by joyce mitchell. she duped him. looking back on that he can't believe someone would take advantage of him. he knows he made a mistake and shouldn't have done what he did, but i think at the end of the day he's a man of integrity. he admits he made a mistake and he's willing to do whatever he can to make it right. >>> responding to the comment that joyce mitchell conned palmer into giving the inmates the hamburger meat. his attorney says it's hard to believe she could tup an experienced officer who matt referred to as his boy. palmer's side didn't respond to that. in an interview with north country radio 15 years ago, gene palmer described working as a corrections officer as a, quote negative environment. with the money they pay you, you'll go balled, have high blood pressure you'll become an alcoholic, divorce and kill yourself. >> one said that could be something palmer might want to use in his defense, citing the stress of

ms. mitchell was charged, then she was charged with a small crime, then charged with something else now we have the arrest of another employee. as the investigation ensues this is going to be like a house of dominos. people will start falling because more information's going to come forward and we will have a better and clearer picture of what happened as a result of the escape and now the man hunt. >> what do you think this does to the minds of other inmates in prison? many of them watching tv, they see what's going on. what does it do to them to watch all of this? >> i think that it's almost a hollywood effect to them. everyone we were calling this initially the shawshank escape. there is almost a hollywood impact even three weeks later, this whole idea of richard matt you know carrying a gun and the police getting him before they got him because he wouldn't put his arms up. i think that it's very surreal to them but the moral of the story is not lost. you can dream about escaping over the prison walls but in the end, it's extremely rare and it never works. it's simply not worth it. >> t

ms. mitchell as well as mr. palmer the two who are accused here, to continue to cooperate.o rely upon and potentially get the cooperation of defendants. so there has to be some benefit to that. so if he's captured alive or not captured at all the issue becomes should they upgrade the charges, or should they not. those are the things the prosecutors will have to balance in making that decision. >> if they are able to capture david sweat alive, this is someone who is already in prison for life. he has nothing to lose. so how does that affect his mindset? >> i don't think they're going to capture him alive. you have to think of him -- freaked out might be too soft of a word. this is a man that i would call an anommic bomb. he is just a tornado of unpredictable behavior. he is all in. especially if he knows that his buddy is dead. being alone helps him strategically and physically he's more likely to actually escape and get away with it to canada now that he's on his own. but sooijpsychologically, he was being fed by his partnership with richard matt. he is going to make a lot

ms. mitchell. she was also charged, undue fa familiarity earlier.n't have happened. >> the idea that gene palm were goud and show the catwalks to these guys allegedly with the idea of having them fix something because a breaker was going out, does that make any sense? aren't there maintenance people? >> absolutely. they have electricians they have plumbers, they have laborers and usually falls under what we call support services. those are people who have access they have the keys they have all the materials and tools necessary to affect repairs. we don't subthat work out to inmates if you will. >> you have no doubt there is a larger problem at this prison? >> no doubt. >> ed gaven, appreciate you being on. >> pleasure thank you. >> ahead in south carolina hours after the body of clementa pinckney arrived to lie in repose bible study resumed inside the charleston church where he and eight others were murdered one week ago. ♪ ♪ (vo) you can pass down a subaru forester. (dad) she's all yours. (vo) but you get to keep the memories. love. it's what make

ms. mitchell helped. they remain at large.eventies" starts now. >> tonight television take is a look at itself. >> what's on the idiot box? >> it's only an idiot box if an idiot is watching. >> our obligation is to entertainment. why have left something to think about, so much the better. >> charges were leveled at the commercial television networks. >> congress has no right to interfere in the media.

ms. mitchell or -- >> we're interviewing numerous civilian personnel within clinton correctional facilityiewing -- >> we're going to break away from this press conference to get some input here from tom fuentes, our hauchlt analyst. what stands out to you here? >> i think the level of frustration that the police are feeling at this point. the community's feeling. you know just everybody. and it's pretty clear that they've interviewed joyce mitchell for a week now. i think they pretty much have as much as they think they can get from her that's useful. and they've exhausted all of the leads possibly provided by her, the phone records, internet records, all of that. and i think that and possibly that she may have been receiving threats also from the community. and that would become extreme. if somebody else outside that prison gets hurt gets killed by these guys that's going to come back right on her. people are going to blame her for that. so she may -- they may have wanted -- she may have wanted that it's time to get into protective custody and just go in. >> tom fuentes, thanks so much.

ms. mitchell, who told about the years she had spent litigating foia. and brought in here numerous, probably looked like about ten or 12 notebooks full of pages that finally were sent to her with practically everything, thousands of pages with 100% of -- on most of those pages totally redacted. and it really was just useless. i can tell you, the american people think the federal government is already far too big, out of control and far too secret. and the american people are not going to stand for more secrecy from the federal government. and i would say to each of you and to any foia officers that might be listening that if you don't start doing better, this committee, this congress is going to have to come down very very hard and come up with some legislation that i'm sure none of you are going to want to live with at all. but ms. pustay can you assure me that if chairman chaffetz calls a hearing a year from now that we'll hear much better story that what we've heard these past couple of days? i mean, you talked about timeliness and all these things t

ms. evers, i want to direct one question to mr. mitchell who's there with you.erry mitchell from the "clarion ledger." jerry, when you look at these calls being made in mississippi in particular from republican leadership in the state legislature that the confederate emblem should go from the flag, does that make it seem to you like there's enough momentum that it might happen? that that major change might happen in the state or do you feel like this is a long fight that's just at the beginning that still has an unpredictable outcome? >> it's a little early to be able to tell. i think as ms. evers has mentioned, we've had some indications that -- i didn't anticipate this to be honest with you, even in the wake of charleston that certain leaders would step up in mississippi, republican leaders and say this is the first statewide republican leaders that i'm aware of who've stood up and called for this. there have been others, not in state positions but yes it's early. this is two or three or four months later when the legislature comes back to meet unless there's

ms. dolezal's advocacy record. >>> payday major changes of how los angeles does business. the mayor is just ahead. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. american express for travel and entertainment worldwide. just show them this - the american express card. don't leave home without it! and someday, i may even use it on the moon. it's a marvelous thing! oh! haha! so you can replace plane tickets, traveler's cheques, a lost card. really? that worked? american express' timeless safety and security are now available on apple pay. the next evolution of membership is here. you are looking at two airplane fuel gauges. can you spot the difference? no? you can't see that? alright, let's take a look. the one on the right just used 1% less fuel than the one on the left. now, to an airline a 1% difference could save enough fuel to power hundreds of flights around the world. hey, look at that. pyramids. so you see, two things that are exactly the same have never been more different. ge software. get connected. get insights. get optimized. ♪ ♪ ♪ (singing) you wouldn't haul a load without checking your clearance. so why woul

ms-13 gang, didn't have confederates to help them escape. if there was people to help them get out, they comment find a ride. they only had joyce mitchell. tells a lot about what happened here h. >> okay, we want to -- i'm sorry, just going to show everybody a picture right now, david sweat is in the alice hyde medical center in malone. you are looking at a picture of it. that is where he is right now, we can only imagine what is going on within those walls as officers are probably talking to him. we don't know what his condition is at this moment i also want to go to clint van zandt, clint, if you are still with us, what can you tell us, because you are a profiler, about their friendship or their personality traits that would bond these two men together like this. >> well, we have got the symbiotic relationship. their two cells were side by side. they probably realized this was a two-man job. we know this has been planned at least for a year. i would say the two of them probably got some level of enjoyment or satisfaction in their combined ability to manipulate those inside the prison to include either the -- either the security guards