the national archives preserves the nation's most fundamental documents like the us constitution and the declaration of independence as well as letters and photographs and congressional papers that tell the story of the united states from the earliest days until today. and then for the public to use for historical documents to educational resources and most importantly for veterans and then to access those benefits they earned to their services. preserving all of these important records qualified independent nonpartisan leadership committed to serving in the best interest of the american people if confirmed you will not only oversee the national archives responsibility to preserve these essential documents but also face several challenges including antiquated resources and technology extensive backlogs from veterans request and the need to ensure that all records from every president central agency are completely and adequately preserved program confident with that record-keeping processes to access to all americans. as chairman of looking to build support for legislation i'm draftin

the national archives preserve some of our nation's most fundamental documents like the u.s.onstitution and the declaration of independence, as well as letters, photographs, newspapers, and congressional papers that tell the story of the united states from its earliest days until today. the national arc i also protects and provides access to critical records and documents for the public to use from historical documents to educational resources, and most importantly for veterans and service members who need military personnel records to access benefits that they have earned and deserved to their services. preserving all of these records is a significant undertaking, and it requires qualified, independent, nonpartisan readership that is committed to serving in the best interest of the american people. dr. shogan, if confirmed, you will not only see -- oversee the national archives responsibility to oversee these documents, will face several challenges, including antiquated resources and technology, the rapid proliferation of electronic records, extensive backlogs from veterans'

the national archives and records administration, the national archives responsible for maintaining and preserving presidential federal records. recordsra are not just essential to keeping an accurate account of government activities were holding executive branch aaccountable, they are critical to ensuring our nations history is fully accurately preserved for future generations. archivee some of our nation's most fundamental documents like the u.s. constitution and the declaration of independence, as well as letters, photographs, newspapers, and congressional papers that tell the story of the united states from its earl national archives texan provides access to critical records documents the public to use from historical documents to educational resources and most important, for veterans and service members who need military personal records and the benefits they've earned and deserve through their services. preserving all of these records is a significant undertaking, and it requires qualified, independent, nonpartisan readership that is committed to serving in the best interest of th

prolog is the national archive. it's the blog so you can see some of the stuff that he's done there. i remember years ago that trevor did a piece on civil war desertion. that was fantastic. trevor also is i don't want to call him a tv's star, but he has been on a number of programs, including the very popular who do you think you are? he's also been on the gettysburg excuse me, the discovery channel show called gettysburg. so today, trevor is going to share with us treasures from the national archives. welcome, trevor plant. thank you. thank you, pete. i'm going to bring him to my boss's office when i ask for a raise. it is my pleasure to be here with you this afternoon. this is my first time presenting at cwi, so i'd like to thank dr. carmichael for inviting me to speak today. i'd like to thank ashley lusk for all the support leading up to this moment. so. the one disclaimer i'm going make before i jump into this is these are. so pete asked me to talk about treasury's with the national archives, and that's all he a

so this is documents at the national archives in washington dc. we many other facilities with the national, we have field locations across the we have a much larger building in college park, maryland that also civil war era records as well as the map collection and the photographs that both covered civil war just to give you that caveat so you know kind of what what i worked with when i when i put this together for you all so. i wanted to start with so we're going to have the first three are non civil war most of the records of the national archives start during the american revolution. so a great example of that our oath of allegiance. so the continental congress passed an act want army officers to sign a of allegiance. so this is the written version of, the verbal oath. so we still have oath today in this country. if you work for the federal government, like i do, if you're in the military, you're a politician on the hill in dc the first day, you sign a lot of paperwork you get fingerprinted, raise hand, and you do an oath to uphold the constitut

some so valuable he's donated them to the national archives near washington. imagine his shock years later when he spot thad babe ruth recording on ebay. >> i said holy expletive. that can't be. >> reporter: an archives' employee lifted the recording and tried to sell it. the justice department found he also stole a series of other artifacts. in 2018, a historian pleaded guilty to stealing from the archives, too. snatching pieces that include add fallen tuskegee airman's dog tags. cbs news has learned about a half-dozen theft cases involving thousands of stolen documents but none as bold as barry landau's. >> i think he thought coehe cou get away with it. >> reporter: he told fdr documents and pocketed the items after sewing extra pockets in his coat and trying to distract the staff with cupcakes and charm. >> he's sitting at this table. somebody spots him from above, up there. >> yes. >> reporter: they all pleaded guilty and served prison time. as for dave golden, his archives donation are returned and the home library is still building. they have cameras and

because of the communication between the fbi and the national archive guides and the national archiveives, notjust mar a lago, it was also at the white house he was told that he had to preserve these documents and ordinarily he was ripping them up ordinarily he was ripping them up and flushing them down the toilet. again, it requires prosecutor to move forward. stay with us on bbc news. still to come: seeing red — the world's biggest food fight returns to the spanish city of bunyol after a two year covid break. she received the nobel peace prize for her work with the poor and the dying in india's slums. the head of the catholic church said mother teresa was a wonderful example of how to help people in need. we have to identify the bodies, then arrange the coffins and take them back home. parents are waiting, and wives are waiting. hostages appeared — some carried, some running — trying to escape the nightmare behind them. britain lost a princess today. described by all to whom she i reached out as "irreplaceable", an early morning car crash| in a paris underpass ended a life with more

when the national archives first asked for them back. >> and what a way to end the week. fresh from her triumphant victory at the emmy awards, sheryl lee ralph from abbott elementary joins me tonight. we begin with the freedom riders. the group of white and black civil rights activists who rode buses across the south in 1961 with the goal of integrating public transportation and bus terminals. one of the original 13 freedom riders was the late great congressman john lewis. it was a bold act of resistance to challenge the segregation laws and the riders encounters violence, beatings, and yale time. the first ride was fire bombed by a white mob in alabama. the rides however would go on to transform america. setting the stage for the civil rights act of 1964 and the voting rights act of 1965. change is often met with resistance, which is why the next year white segregationists concocted a viciously racist plan, offering black people one-way tickets to the north or to the west with the promise of a better life. these bus trips were dubbed reverse freedom rides. here's betty w

the national archives and records administration, norah, countered that former president clinton had decided these tapes where his personal property. there were a personal record he made for himself. and kept us locked. or the archives weren't gonna demand that he had them over. judicial watch lost the case. the court ruled that bill clinton was within his rights to the side that is socked or tapes or personal records. based on that ruling, donald trump is claiming that he has the right to declare that all these classified documents he's hidden away at his beach club are as personal records because he set. so i'm not a lawyer, but i would say there are a number of problems here. chief among them, they would seem to be some obvious differences between some tape recordings he made a face-off, captain your sock drawer, and, say, classified details of another country's nuclear program, as well as top secret human intelligence sources. you can't just decide another country's nuclear secrets are on personal property. that's not how any of this works. even if trump wants to claim he's decide

within a week of that search at mar-a-lago, meadows submitted text messages and emails to the national archives. it was less than a dozen emails. now, this was actually part of an earlier request for all electronic correspondence that falls under the presidential records act. what's interesting here is the archives realized that it hadn't gotten everything from meadows when it saw what meadows had actually turned over to the january 6th committee. that's when they started putting in that earlier request. one thing to pay attention here is that meadows has actually been working with the archives on a different level as well. that's something we learned through this reporting. for about a year, because he is one of trump's designees to the archives. so he was called by another designee last summer, a year ago, to try to help get trump to give these records back to the national archives. so kind of a weird position for him to be in, turning it over and then also he was trying to help with the trump angle of this. >> and the timing of this. is this a coincidence? what do you know about that? >> wel

. >> there is something entirely new that was created by the national archives and the fpi insertion of former presidents house do you agree in the future making records available to national archives to show what the process was in the decision-making to reach this point have a greater chance brings you to the american people. >> thank you for the question reveille with transparency and i want to be responsive refine competitive archivist of the united states. i don't know where we are on the department of justice law enforcement process but as a general statement you have my commitment i will work with you and members of the committee to be as transparent as possible. >> archivist nominee to questions from the senate homeland security and governmental affairs committee. watch the confirmation hearing in its entirety tonight at 8 p.m. eastern on c-span2. you can watch your mobile video app, c-span now. >> tonight house majority leader kevin mccarthy on why voters should vote for republicans in november he will be speaking in pittsburgh and will show his remarks on c-span or you can

but does that also have a protocol about how that is done and why wouldn't the national archives no? >> i'm sure there is a deep substantive answer to this. first of all it's much easier to classified documents for a piece of information then it is to declassify. in the defense department for example i created documents and down at the bottom line would write classified by jc johnson and to declassify something you have to go through a whole process of consulting different agencies andg officials which takes a very long time. in theory a president being the commander-in-chief could shortcut all of that and decide i'm going to declassify this document because it is in the best interest of the united states and national security and foreign policy but a president rarely if ever does that end ofe point i made earlier is that it's telling others because if you are genuinely interested in declassify unit you tell others that you've done so, which is why the assertion is so absurd and laughable. >> what do you think? >> i would just add that i worked closely with the two but i had a signif

and why wouldn't the national archives know that? you're just saying trump's people did not keep track. sen. johnson: if i could start, and i'm sure michael has a very substantive answer to this, first of all, it is much easier to classify a document or a piece of information than it is to declassify. when i was in the defense department, for example, i created a document and down at the bottom it would say classified by jc johnson, declassified on september 1, 2057. to declassify something, you have to go through a whole process of federal agencies and officials, which takes a very long time. in theory, a president, being the commander-in-chief, could shortcut all of that and decide for himself, i am going to declassify this particular document, because i think it is in the best interest of the united states international security, or foreign policy. the president rarely if ever does that. and the point i made earlier is that part and parcel of the classifying something is telling others throughout the federal government that you ha

lately, there is a focus on the national archives for its role in preserving presidential records.stration, the archives has been working to retrieve missing records. in january, 15 boxes of records were returned by the former president, including 150 documents marked as "classified." the justice department then authorized a search of mar-a-lago. in august, agents retrieved an additional 26 boxes of material, including information on the nuclear defense capabilities of other nations. why is this a big deal? in 1978, following the watergate scandal, congress passed a law called the presidential records act. it requires all written or electronic communications, even a president's handwritten notes, to be surrendered to the archives at the end of an administration. it is kind of like handing over the keys to your home once you move out. the archives also oversees 13 presidential libraries and 14 regional archives across the country. >> next on "matter of fact." we focus on the wind turbines changing the energy landscape of the lone star state. welcome to my digestive system. it's pret

what role does the national archives play in preserving the tapes? i hate ed. well, the archives is the general custodian of of these records and so all of the presidential libraries which was where people would originally go to get the tapes are part of the national archive system the nixon library became part of the national archives and i think it was 2007 the prior to that the nixon library stood out side of the narrow national archives and records administration system. and so there was a little bit of a wrinkle there. but yeah nara is the the broad holding agency for all of these and you and you know before the miller center did what it did and and uploaded all these materials so that you can download these materials you could write to the archives and ask for these tapes and for you know, small processing fee. they could send them to you or you could go there. often and and listen to them. but yeah people went to largely to the presidential libraries to do that and prior to 2007 if you wanted the nixon tapes, you would go to i believe it was archives to i

mike said it was strengthened after richard nixon with the national archives, right? >> rate. there's a controversy about whether nixon could keep a lot of his own documents. >> the other issue that could happen for my understanding is sometimes the government may be slow to prosecute the sources and methods that might re- reveal were too sensitive to risk revealing. i think that would happen this case? most instances involving prosecution without compromising services bring it witness and from the intelligence community be able to testify to their significance either classified with either of have theories where the former president were they mementos many thoughts about that? >> yes, i do have a theory. and this is just a suspicion. it is hard for me too believe that donald trump would care that much about classified documents in general that come to the situation room. my theory and my suspicion is he kept records that in some way exonerate him. either related to mueller in russia or ukraine. and/or he kept records and so might make him look very good. but in some way to vi

national archives pleaded, and finally sent some people down there to get it. in that first shipment of 15 boxes to the national archives, they soon realized that they were classified documents there, and that they did not get it all. about six months later, they worked out the second delivery when the trump lawyers swore under oath in writing in june that that is it, you've got it all. if that were true, this story would've ended right there. on june 3rd, and we would not know much about it. but the fact the government documents, including classified documents, remained at donald trump's home after his lawyer swore under oath, that they were not there, moved this story into the criminal arena. and a criminal search warrant was issued. and then the question became, how close to donald trump is this going to get? donald trump could've said, i had nothing to do with those boxes. he could have said, i didn't know it was in those boxes. but on august 8th, when the fbi figured out where the mastermind would hide classified documents, they went straight to donald tru

so there's a clearly false statement that he's conveying to the national archives. es criminal jeopardy if he knew that what he wa was a false statement. maybe trump lies to him, for example, and then he conveys that to the archives. but that's i think the issue for him. and i think that that would be of concern for him and his lawyers. >> i want to ask you about the implications of that. first of all, you know him so let's talk about this. what do you think is happening here? would he really go and represent in something so important just repeating what trump said? >> giving him the best degree of the benefit of the doubt i can give him is the final months of the trump presidency were a very chaotic period. think of january 6th onto the inauguration when he had to leave the white house. i don't think this is out of the realm of possibility that things were just getting thrown in boxes. i know that white house staff, there was no organization, there was no transitioning him out of office. so there could be a level of that. but that's straining kind of he was tasked t

transcriptions of those diaries in his correspondence on founders online hosted by the national archives, through the national historical publications. founders online has transcript of thousands of documents written by and to the nation's founders. you can find washington's letter to his cabinet written in savanna, georgia, his itinerary and instructions should any serious matter occur in his absence. you can read entries from his diary recording places he was in, the conditions of roads and lodgings, the weather and the terrain and the crops of the area. following washington's path, nathaniel philbrick came to know our first president not as a monumental figure from history but as a man traveler like himself, and the words preserved in traditional and digital archives, we can become more familiar with washington and the other founders. nathaniel philbrick is the author of award-winning books including new york times bestseller mayflower which was a finalist in 2007 pulitzer prize in history and the los angeles times book prize. his book in the heart of both the won the national award f

act, which says quite clearly that all presidential records are to be in the custody of the national archives. so, it's almost kind of hard to read. it's really, it's a bit hysterical. it's very kind of emotionally drafted. and it kind of jumps all over the place. i do think they are trying to attack the validity of the search warrant in a sort of roundabout way, knowing, i'm sure, as they do that attacking the search warrant is not something you do in front of a different federal judge, and from a different courthouse. there is a time that a target of investigation, once their charge, they have the opportunity to attack the search warrant, they are kind of trying to do that here in a roundabout way that does not seem particularly effective to me. but that seems to be what they're doing. >> and again, a reminder. the hearing for which this filing is intended to morrow is about the special. master it is not about the search warrant exactly, per se. all right, andy, standby for second. i want to go back to kaitlan collins. who has been reading more. what do you see now, caitlin? >> john, there'

new revelations about what trump's team told the national archives when they first tried to get thosestored at mar-a-lago. jessica schneider joins us now. what's the latest you know about this appeal by the justice department. >> we know the they could appeal at any moment. that's because they told the judge in this case they plan to appeal by the end of the week. here we are. of course last night we heard the judge issuing her ruling where she said essentially she'll not back down and she'll not let the doj use the classified documents they recovered at mar-a-lago in continuing their criminal investigation. so obviously doj wants to appeal all that. doj also has to wait until the special master that's been named has reviewed all the classified documents to use them. presumably here there's a lot for doj to appeal. you know, not only did judge eileen canon say they couldn't continue their investigation, but she also cast a lot of doubt that their existence at mar-a-lago may have imperilled national security. so at this point doj lawyers, they're likely parsing through the issues they

part of the effort to get trump to turn over the documents that were down at mar-a-lago to the national archivesadows himself is a designee to the archives. in 2021 the summertime, he went down to mar-a-lago to try to get trump to send those documents back to the national archives. now, obviously we don't know the details of that conversation, but we do know that trump never ended up sending them until much later when there was a subpoena. so, just interesting there are two parallels here. now when it comes to the timing, we have conflicting sources on this. we have one source that says the search had nothing to do with what meadows turned over or the fact that he turned over at this time. it was going to be scheduled at this time and this decision had nothing to do with the search. on the other side, we have a source familiar with the matter who says that maybe it is a coincidence, but they received far more information, correspondence from meadows after the search than they ever had before. kristen holmes, cnn, washington. >>> international inspectors say they'll keep an eye on ukraine's zapor

brand-new sources tell cnn that mark meadows handed over text messages and emails to the national archives, within a week of the search of mar-a- lago. that's interesting. i want to bring in our national correspondent, kristin holmes, and sarah murray, here tonight, former u.s. attorney's harry lippmann and cia operations officer douglas london, offer of author of "the recruiter," spying in the lost art. what a panel to have. we begin with you, sarah. can you tell us more about the inventory that was unsealed? it had interesting notions. >> it was quite a haul. we are talking about 11,000 government documents that were not classified, hundred and three with classified markings of different levels, secret, top secret, confidential. those folders you mention that did not have documents in them but had classified banners on them? they took a bunch of boxes of stuff out of the former president's office, and those include 27 classified documents. a lot of the stuff, these documents that were not classified, classified documents are intermingled with other stuff. magazines, newspaper clippings,

brand-new tonight, sources telling cnn that mark meadows handed over text messages and email to the national archives within a week of the search of mar-a-lago. that's interesting. i want to bring in cnn national correspondent kristen holmes and political correspondent sara murray. also harry lipman and former cia operations officer douglas london, who is author of "the recruiter: spying and the lost art of american intelligence." what a panel to have tonight, especially with the new news out right now. let me begin with you, sara. can you tell us more about this inventory that was unsealed today? it had some interesting notions in there. >> that's right, laura. it was quite a haul. we're talking about 11,000 government documents that were not classified, 103 documents with classified markings of all different levels, secret, top secret, confidential. you have those folders that you mentioned that didn't have documents in them but had these classified banners on them. they also took a bunch of boxes of stuff out of the former president's office. and those boxes include 27 classified documents. and a

files that trump took to mar-a-lago, and did not return, even after repeated requests by the national archives and the subpoena from the justice department. trump's attorneys also argued privacy in response to the d.o.j.'s claim that he had no right to possess documents because they didn't belong to him. quote, the biden administration will not allow president trump to assert executive privilege and consequently he has to no. right to possess presidential documents and that therefore he has no standing to object to the seizure. it is all contrary to the well-established doctrine of standing. it is the reasonable expectation of privacy in one's home that triggers the obvious standing of the homeowner to contest search of those premises. >>> joining us now, senior correspondent for yahoo news, michael weiss. thanks for joining us this morning. give us your sense of this back and forth here, between the department of justice and the trump legal team. we know that president biden did not, is not saying that executive privilege applies here, for a former president. we also know the law requires tha

to the white house of office federal management, which wouldn't go to the national archives as the formerransitioned out of the white house. that was never done. that first email came to trump's legal team when he left the white house in may of 2021. from there there is a very well documented stream of communications from the national archives to trump's legal team trying to get these items back. >> lisa rubin, the justice department is appealing judge cannons ruling in part even at the special master is beginning his radio documents. how do both of those things play out at the same time? explain the decision not to appeal all of it. to narrow it to trying to get the access walled off to the classified documents by both importantly the master in the trump lawyers. >> i should clarify, what this justice department has done so far is seek a partial stay on john cannons ruling pending their appeal. they haven't actually filed their appeal yet. it is still possible that they could appeal the entirety of judge kent's order. i do not think they will do that, here is why. the appeal proceeding w

greetings from the national archives flagship building in washington, dc, which, on the ancestral lands of the two college tang peoples. i'm david farrell, archivist, the united and it's my pleasure to welcome you to. today's conversation with linda hirshman about her new book, color of abolition, which examines the alliance among frederick douglass. william lloyd garrison and maria weston chapman in the fight to enslave in the united states, joining author in conversation is margaret sullivan, columnist at the washington post. in the decades before the civil war, frederick douglass emerged as the foremost orator and writer for the abolition movement. abraham lincoln said of douglass, there is no man in the country whose opinion i value more than yours. and that lincoln second inauguration douglass sat near the president. how came to be on the side of the president is a story told in the color of abolition. our featured book for today's program. linda hirshman describes how the team of douglas william garrison and maria weston chapman successfully promoted the anti-slavery cause in the

the national archives and records administration, nara -- they were a personal record he made for himselfd apparently kept in a sock drawer, and the archives were not going to demand that he hand them over. judicial watch lost that case. the court ruled that bill clinton within his right to decide that his sock drawer tapes were personal records. based on that ruling, donald trump is claiming that he has the right to declare that all these classified documents he has squirrels away at his beach club, or his personal records, because he says so. i am not a lawyer. but i would say there are a number of filings here -- chief among them, it would seem to be some obvious differences between some tape recordings you made of yourself, for your own personal use, kept in your sock drawer? and, say, ossify details on another country's nuclear program, as well as top secret human intelligence sources. you simply cannot just decide that another country's nuclear secrets are your own personal property. that is not how any of this works. and even if trump wants to claim he has decided that all that stu

also thanks to the national archives for the work in preserving our nations past.nderstanding who we are. and i think that is it. >> absolutely, i just want to thank the national archives for having us on. thank you, tom, for coming on with me. i have enjoyed our chat. been fun talking about two centuries a presidential history with you. >> a huge topic, but the time flew by. >> yeah, and sure did. thank you so much. >> thank you everyone. coming up, conversation about george washington's farewell address delivered 225 years ago. featured speakers are historians lindsay -- and joseph alice, as well as cnn's john avlon. >> good evening everyone my name is kevin butterfield kevin butterfield, the mount lady ladies association that rescue mount vernon in the 1850s which continues to protect and preserve it today. i wanna welcome it to their conversation about george washington's farewell address. on september 19th 1796 drones in announce to the world that he would not seek reelection to

his correspondents are freely available on founders online, a searchable website hosted by the national archives through the national historical publications and records commission. founders online has transcriptions of thousands of documents written by and to the nation's founders. there you can find washington's letter to this cabinet written before setting off or savannah, georgia. laying out his itinerary and instructions should any serious matter occur in his absence. you can also read entries from his diary which required the places he stopped, the conditions of the roads and lodgings, the weather, and the terrain, and the major crops of the area. following washington's path, nathaniel philbrick came to know our first president, not as a monumental figure of our history, but as a man, a traveler like himself. and reading the words preserved in traditional and digital archives, we too can become more familiar with washington and the other founders. nathaniel philbrick is the author of award-winning books, including the new york times bestseller mayflower, which was a finalist for both the p

also thanks to the national archives for the work in preserving our nations past.anding who we are. and i think that is it. >> absolutely, i just want to thank the national archives for having us on. thank you, tom, for coming on with me. i have enjoyed our chat. been fun talking about two centuries a presidential history with you. >> a huge topic, but the time flew by. >> yeah, and sure did. thank you so much. >> thank you everyone. if you are enjoying america history tv then sign up for our newsletter using the qr code on the team received the weekly schedule a programs like the presidency and more. side upper mechanist or tv newsletter today and be sure to watch american history tv every saturday or anytime online at c-span.org slash history. >> now available in the c-span shop, she spent 2022 congressional directory. go there today for a copy of the congressional directory. this compact spiral notebook is your guide for the federal government with contact information for every member of congress, including bias and committee assignments, also contact informatio

but i doubt that it says that presidents are allowed to store their records either at the national archives or at their house. i doubt that there is anything in the law that says you can store them at the white house and leave them in the national archives or you can take them, i don't know, to bedminster. that isn't a thing. and so i feel like there isn't an argument here. donald trump did not have the right to have those records period, and now we have, and look, we don't know what was in the boxes but it's not like trump only goes to mar-a-lago. there is this daily mail video of him heading off to bedminster with boxes. we don't know what's in the boxes. but he moves around to different places. today, he's in d.c. in his golf shoes. this guy could go anywhere, and the government for more than a year, for 18 months, did not have access to the property of the federal government because he took things and hid them. i fail to understand how that is not just an open and obvious crime, putting aside what he did when it came to january 6th. >> well, joy, i think you're absolutely right. there i

. -- by the national archives, to the national historical publications and records commissions. it's can transcriptions of thousands of documents written by into the nation's founders. jefferson's letters to peel is easily accessible on founders online, and that also gives us the contest for the title of today's book, andrew o'shaughnessy the illimitable freedom of the human mind. in an 1820 letter at the end of a proud description of the new university, jefferson and told his corresponded, this institution will be based on the illimitable freedom of the human mind. for, here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor to tolerate any era, so long as reason is left free to combat it. andrew o'shaughnessy is the vice president of the thomas as president foundation of the monticello -- the jefferson studies. his previous books include an empire divided, the american revolution, and the british caribbean and the men who lost america. joining him in conversation, is -- professor american history and an associate professor at the university of maryland. now let's hear

about his obligation to the national archives. but, it also seems that with that same knowledge he willfully withheld other documents. including in his desk. in his personal desk. this personal office there and that residence. and the desk door. he had classified documents. what does it add to the possible prosecution here that donald trump, and effects, agreed in that initial handed back of documents that yes i do owe these documents to the government? will he be somehow legally better off if he never gave back anything and simply insisted his understanding was that he did not have to give back anything? >> yes. exactly. this is the world's worst set of facts for him. the fact that he returned some but not all makes it clear he understood exactly what he was being told by gary kirtzman. let's assume that he is the only lawyer who is saying this. although i agree with brad that he will not be the only lawyer. but even if he were the only one, it shows that he knew, that point the imports and then deliberately decided to keep other

>> it went on for an incredibly long time, so much to the fact that it went to the national archives trump and his team to turn this information over. when they realized there was classified material in there and they referred to the justice department, then we entered the subpoena territory. that is where you saw these letters coming from the justice department to trump's legal team. they had subpoenas. they had these court approved documents trying to get access to these materials. this isn't just because they were asking nicely and not getting what they wanted. that line stuck out to me as well john because the way that the trump team has been framing this is that they were having this cooperative relationship. they were all operating in good faith, and they were caught off guard by the search warrant executed at trump's home. this is not what the justice department is saying. they are saying that there were subpoenas here, that they were not getting all the classified information even though there were trump attorneys signing documents say there was no more classified information

founders online, a website hosted by the national archives, through the national historical publication records commission has transcriptions of thousands of documents written by and to the nation's founders. jefferson's letter to peel is easily accessible on founders online and that portal also gives us the context for the title of today's book. in an 1820 letter at the end of a proud description of the new university, jefferson told his correspondent this institution will be based on the illimitable freedom of the human mind. for here, we're not afraid to fall of truth wherever it may lead. nor to tolerate any air or so long as reason is left free to combat it. of the robert h smith international center for jefferson studies. -- at monticello and saunders director theks include an empire divided, the american revolution. and the british caribbean. and the man who lost america. joining him in conversation is -- professor of american history associate professor at the university of maryland. now let's hear from andrew sean to see an oily brewer let's thank you for joining us today. no >