is it closer now to being a nato member, or not? >> well, let's not forget that in 2008 already in bucharest, there was the decision that the future of ukraine should be in nato. and we have had the decision in washington on the irreversible path towards nato. and since early 2022 countries have been working on bilateral agreements with ukraine to make sure that we do everything to get them in a position of strength. we have the pledge, we have the command, and all of this is building a bridge towards nato. but i think what the allies also agree upon, is that the first priority now it should be for ukraine to be in that position, that they can start negotiations from this position of strength with the russians. but now it is priority number 1, 2, and three. that is what i am also avoiding to add my thoughts to the many thoughts going around on what peace talks could look like, who should be sitting at the time table, what security guarantees would look like. because first we have to do the first step, and the first step is to make s

and that is because of nato, that is because of nato expansion. we need a complete re thing when, when ukraine security is considered, it cannot be separated from russia's, and this is what the west, particularly nato does not want to deal with. go ahead in san francisco. i don't think the nato wants peace. they may, i agree with you. absolutely. i agree with you. sorry. go ahead. the items are good pieces on the agenda here. they're looking for some formula to begin negotiations without any kind of intent to several anything. and what we've got going on in the american ministration. now there's been some time, some tunnel battle as to who is going to represent the trump administration and trying to seek some sort of negotiations. and it's really where it's um, because of the apartments recently looked like a retread. neil cons, i mean you got waltz. do doug work or you got rubio heads. this is probably out and you got the sense is probably in a most of the trouble appointments that was supposed to shake up the deep state. uh, you know, i walk thr

nato stands strong with ukraine. we provided through nato nonlethal support. and created a council which met again here in brussels and launched a new command and to coordinate future efforts and help speed ukraine's path to membership. united states our own assistance to help buildup ukraine's defenses. we are determined and full my my intent and the president's intent to spend every cent we have available to the dollars made by congress. with the g-7, we are timizing moving out the door 50 million secured by frozen assets. nato allies and partners are sharing the burden and shouldering more responsibility. and germ my made a all told, the united states has provided $102 billion in assistance to ukraine and allies $158 billion this may be the best of burden sharing that i have seen in the 32 years i have been doing this. in our own investment, most of it has been invested in our own industrial base to produce weapons that ukraine needs but those investments are strengthening our industrial base and they are providing good jobs in the united states. in doing t

it does not threaten nato security, but nato threatens russia security. david in salt lake city as well. i think russia definitely does. the threatened due to security today. they didn't do so before the war. that's. that's why it was created in mexico is attacking russian territory. that is a threat is russia attacking nato territory? no, it is it, it's not the same thing. you can't do that. you can, you can pair the to keep going and salt lake city. yeah. you're absolutely right. so nato is being the aggressor here. you know, it's been the funk fairly demonizes that as the dresser. this was not enough for vote progression. this was the most provoked more that i've ever seen in our history. and you know, cause want to pc said 15 years trying to negotiate a peaceful solution to the excess that fell through out of date on ukraine in every day since every day since the day after the war. russia has a peace terms that were mostly reasonable and we've created the situation for just the last of the piece. you know, the real solution is, is on. it's on the nego

and that is because of nato, that is because of nato expansion. we need a complete re think when, when ukraine security is considered, it cannot be separated from russia's and this is what the wes, particularly nato does not want to deal with. go ahead in san francisco. i don't think uh, nato wants peace. they may, i agree with you. absolutely. i agree with you. sorry. go ahead. no, i don't feel good pieces on the agenda here. they're looking for some formula to begin negotiations without any kind of intent of several anything. and what we've got going on in the american ministration. now there's been some tense, internal battle as to who is going to represent the trump administration and trying to seek some sort of negotiations. and it's really where it's um, because of the appointments recently looked like a retread. neil cons, i mean you got waltz, do not work. and i, you got rubio heads. this is probably out and you got the sense is probably in a most of the trouble appointments that was supposed to shake up the deep state. uh, you know, i wal

as a - actually see nato as a negotiator _ actually see nato as a negotiator at - actually see natoable. actually see nato as a negotiator at the table. let's combine the _ negotiator at the table. let's combine the two _ negotiator at the table. let's combine the two questions. | combine the two questions. changing the trajectory means we want — changing the trajectory means we want to bring ukraine into talks— we want to bring ukraine into talks to — we want to bring ukraine into talks to end the conflict. but it should _ talks to end the conflict. but it should be the ukrainian government to decide that and from _ government to decide that and from a — government to decide that and from a position of strength. changing the trajectory means that ukraine is in a position of strength and ukraine can prevent— of strength and ukraine can prevent putin from getting what he wanted when he started his full onslaught of ukraine. when we get — full onslaught of ukraine. when we get to— full onslaught of ukraine. when we get to that moment, and i think— we get to that moment, and i think we

but nato foreign ministers meeting in brussels looks at the say, know, at least for now. also coming up. this one is, rebels take control more territory and serious northwest. we look at what the flare up in this simmering complex would mean for president bush auto saw for z. and what happens next to air of american voters? voice concern over us president elect donald trump's future policy in the middle east plus reunited for one night only former german transfer. i'm going back home in conversation with for a rock obama as us slow which of her memoir, the law i'm terry martin. thanks for joining us. ukraine is calling for a full nato membership, saying is the only security guarantee that matters in the face of russia's invasion, foreign ministers from the alliance. our meeting to discuss continued support for keeping its defense against moscow. president belong to mrs. lensky suggested that he could agree to a ceasefire with russia. if nato extends its protection to the parts of the country control my own crate. nature has so far declined offer your credit and membership

it does not threaten nato security, but nato threatens russia security. david in salt lake city as well. i think russia definitely does the threatened data security today. they didn't do so before the war that's, that's why it's created. so is attacking russian territory. that is a threat is russia attacking nato territory? no, it is, it, it's not the same thing. you can't the but you can, you can pair the to keep going and salt lake city. yeah, you're absolutely right. so nato is being the aggressor here. you know, it's been the funk fairly demonizes as the dresser. uh, this was not enough for vote progression. this was the most provoked more that i've ever seen in our history and you know, cause want a pc spent 15 years trying to negotiate a peaceful solution to the excess doubtful threat update on ukraine in every day since every day since the day after the war russia has at peace terms that were mostly reasonable and would create the situation for just the last new piece. you know, the real solution is, is um, it's on negotiating table. uh, you know,

but linking in a box to the previous segment about nato and nato's capability in european defense industry. yes, this is going to be difficult for russia and i'm not sure if it's a temporary issue. was a full approval. it wasn't the central bank will be able to contain this or how this will ago. it remains to be seen. there are some predictions that the russian economy will be able to sustain the war for at least an officer, 2 years. now let's consider the european defense industry and how this plays out. can europe him, needle members sustained a support thing? ukraine for the next couple of years and some of the problems have already been mentioned. um, i would like to also add the supply chain crisis and the growing price is for all materials. so for you, the european defense companies they can produce, but they cannot produce the williams that sees the russians, the lowest koreans can produce despite all the sanctions. yeah. and so the question here becomes, can we, even it was rushes economy? now in the klein, can european nato members compete with russia while we arming themselves an

and that is because of nato, that is because of nato expansion. we need a complete re thing when, when ukraine security is considered, it cannot be separated from russia's, and this is what the west, particularly nato does not want to deal with. go ahead in san francisco. i don't think uh, nato wants peace. they may, i agree with you. absolutely. i agree with you. sorry. go ahead. the items are good pieces on the agenda here. they're looking for some formula to begin negotiations without any kind of intent of several anything. and what we've got going on in the american ministration. now there's been some time, some terminal battle as to who is going to represent the trump administration and trying to seek some sort of negotiations. and it's really where it's um, because of the appointments recently looked like a retread, neil kinds, i mean, you got walks through doug, work and i, you got rubio heads. this is probably out and you got the sense is probably in a most of the trouble appointments that were supposed to shake up the div state uh, you kn

nato was formed in 1949. i think the only purpose of the organization was not to fight terrorists elsewhere or protect peace in africa, but to protect and defend free europe against soviet russian aggression. at that time, one of the conflict was -- now the conflict moved eastward. that's why i'm getting confused when i hear ukraine will join nato. ukraine is the only country in the world that has been fighting to fulfill nato, all the obligation. [ applause ] [ indiscernible ] >> for instance, the question for you, i'm curious, we all know there's a big elephant in the room, this incoming administration, because we don't know what can happen. so this could go either way. trump is unpredictable. >> on purpose. >> on purpose. i'm not being critical. i'm just saying anything can happen. we hear voices in this incoming administration from both sides, some of them as citizen, senator from his state which is now the majority, they are advocating for supporting ukraine. we hear voices from the other side saying, no

would those be problems for nato? but the biggest risk is don't know. sums continues questioning of nato's mutual defense cloth. by making that distinction between elyse, that he is ready to defend an elyse that he is not ready to defend from the minds the i'm conditional nature of the alliance is solid. doroty experts tell us that if that continues rational might consider a nature is no longer a functioning alliance and starts to challenge it directly. this is the worst case scenario for many in europe who the fear that if you creating falls, nato countries in eastern europe could be next. but with the new u. s. of ministration. really let that happen. europe at the war is bad for business. so before you can actually shift your resources away from europe, you need this to be stable, there needs to be peace. so your best hope is that instead of this engaging from the continent, the new you ask that ministration might feel it needs to fix the security situation . the 1st before it can focus on the bigger challenge and

and what i hope for in all of this is a strategic defeat for nato. because nato is the problem here. they knew we used to have the indivisibility of security. i don't know what happened to the west that was part of the helsinki process in the 1970s. everybody knew it. everybody agreed to it. they have to go back to it. and if they have to experience a strategic defeat then, so be a garland what one of the things we have issues we have here is that nato and the people who run in are at war with the people of their own countries. they are at odds with the people of their own countries. they are fighting them off and trying to stop them from getting what they want. i would suspect at some point, and this is a strong possibility, is donald trump says that the russians, all right, you made this offer. i'll take it, that sounds good. let's try to go with that. the ukranian say, oh no, we can't take that the my 6 is of the world say no, we can take that. and donald trump at that point says okay, you guys will handle it, then we're out. we thought it was a g

much less full nato membership. and at the same time that schultz and other say this, there is another camp here of you and tomato allies who say that that's the very reason why ukraine should be extended. an invitation that that would force russia to reconsider what it's doing, maybe force russia to back down, instead of it always being nato, that refrains from taking further action. and it will be interesting to see how that conversation continues. now that kind of call us the former as stony and prime minister in a very strong pro ukrainian figure is now the use top diplomat as she entered here tonight. she said, you know, rush is always threatening us and the best way to respond to that is simply not be afraid. ukraine has bilateral security guarantees with more than a dozen of its allies, as we just mentioned. could such support be a good substitute for its noodle? membership, so well at the moment, that's really all ukraine has because as i just as i've just described, it doesn't have hopes of getting article

it seems as though the european nato. alice don't really have a plan. what actually it's the german transfer just announced 650000000 euros and additional age to ukraine that sold additional miller. excuse me. that has been pledged before. you mentioned that again when he was in kiff. right. okay. but that they haven't been delivered so far, so good that has been planned, autopay. okay. but he announced that it will be delivered now that means an additional i will not additional for a former promise military aid. however, these amounts are not as high as we saw in, in, in other parts or episodes of this war. do you think the politicians are still doing a mistake that everyone has been signaling from the beginning that is just giving dribs and drags and help a to crane and that this will continue until trump takes off? or i think of, well, the material, but the reality is that we haven't paid up european defense industry to the degree that we could now significantly increase what we provide to ukraine and back funding all at one stop pulse. that is a dec

big improvements in nato's own policy because they haven't upgraded that since 2015. we've taken a look at at the background on this. let's watch this piece as a military maneuver and nipple dixie. nato is stepping up patrols here and investing more than new technologies to better protect the critical infrastructure in waters, county 15 percent of global shipping traffic. several tasks of that infrastructure as well as other forms of hybrid attacks has become a pressing issue for the alliance. i personally don't like the word hybrid because of tax or a tax and we have to deal with the tax as they come with the results on, on uh, cyber weather is uh on the under the infrastructure or others. this building, it has been talking about this already more than a year, and we arrested more than 10 persons at the end of the last year. uh, dina stoney and hoover guided and financed by the russian secret service. some natal members have been pressing the alliance to take a tough stance on the matter with the officials saying that russia is showing an increased upside for taking

of which are nato members.bout these issues with the canadian foreign minister a little earlier. i began by asking her about the nato foreign ministers meeting. >> what we talked about is how much we need to continue to support ukraine and how much also ukrainians need to be part of any form of discussion regarding their future. it is canada's position ukraine should become part of nato. they should receive an invitation. and we think it is in the best interest of ukrainians, of europe and also on this side of the ocean which is north america. it would make the north american and european partnership much stronger. that is our position. we are also supportive of the recent biden administration decision regarding the use of long-range missiles by ukrainians themselves. >> which is something president zelenskyy has long been pushing for as is nato membership. was there any sense of a timeline put on that? ? that is something he really wants to know. >> in terms of the membership, we know it needs to be a decision

nato was formed in 1949. the only purpose of the organization was not to fight terrorists elsewhere or protect peace in africa but to protect, defend free you're against soviet russian aggression. -- free europe against soviet russian aggression. that is why i am getting confused when i hear ukraine will join nato. ukraine is the only country in the world that has been fighting to fulfill obligation. [applause] a question for you. there is a big elephant in the room. incoming administration. we do not know what will happen. this could go either way. it is unpredictable. anything can happen. some of them, a senator who is now incoming majority leader. they are advocating for supporting ukraine. we have heard from the other side saying forget about ukraine, give russia whatever it wants. will canada step in? when you have free time from the united nations -- [laughter] >> i think i believe in diplomacy but i fundamentally believe in defense. i fundamentally believe canada needs to increase its defense spending.

i mean, nato goes on and on about its sovereignty. but the states wants to take greenland away from denmark. i mean, isn't the not in sites a threat to the european members of nato now? i mean, you know, to, in one way or another. trump's going to get greenland? is anybody in europe going to protest as well? and again, what did donald trump's foreign policy when he talks about taking green then, and the panama canal shows 2 things. number one, it shows that it's on hinge, and a lot of that stuff i just dismissed donald. trump will say that kind of silliness . and see everybody want you a girl in regarding one, you know to some they tow world calls rush unhinged. okay. rush. it had a security threat on its border. it complained about it for 30 years, for god's sake. ok. now trump is good as able to take a slice of europe as i say this over the next year. internally, these politicians in, in europe are going to be trying to survive. i mean look what's happening, the re romania look what's happening with german elections. dear storm is g

of course you had a slot, the nato as well. my purse, so there will say that the main goal now is to put ukraine in the quick, stronger position for future tubes. we have to do a couple of things. first of all, we have to make sure that we help you to maintain the energy grit and the energy infrastructure as best as possible. much more needs to be done to make sure that you can bring one day, your discharge to move to some form of talks with the russians, that you can do this for the position of strength. so we must continue to punt to try and do what it takes to support this self defense for as long as it takes to put your pride in the strongest possible position for negotiations, i suppose the logical question is, is all the actions now puts in ukraine in a stronger position for future thoughts, there's no stronger position again to switch toward from one move from washington to put your training in a stronger position. they had opportunity to help manage them. how might have is more, you probably could have done ballast and

it seems as though the european nato. alice don't really have a plan. what actually, if the german transfer just announced 650000000 euros and additional age to ukraine . the additional miller, excuse me, that has been pledged before. you mentioned that again when he was in kiff. right. okay. but that they haven't been delivered so far, so good that has been planned, autopay. okay. but he announced that it will be delivered now that means an additional i will not additional for a former promise military aid. however, these amounts are not as high as we saw in, in, in other parts or episodes of this war. do you think the politicians are still doing in the state that everyone has been signaling from the beginning that is just giving dribs and drags and help a to a crane and that this will continue until trump takes off or i think of well the material but the reality is that we haven't put it up european defense industry to the degree that we could now significantly increase what we provide to ukraine and back feeling all at one stop pulse. that is a decis

cool, was uh somebody who uh, completely disagreed with the policies of nato and policies of nato. for romania is part of it for mania to be the spear of nato in the east. what george w bush said more than 20 years ago. so what they want to remain is to do they want them to, to be cannon fodder in nate, those war against russia. and that is the bottom line with a line of everything. this is not about the question of democracy the same way. it is not a question of democracy when it comes to alexis email though or elections in georgia or in any other place where nato has decided to wage the use of the people that country for its geo political goals. and the goal is to uh, to make a strategic victory over russia, as they have announced several times yesterday. we've heard the interview. i'll send you a lot of by dr. call. so he also repeated that. so in order for them to uh, to fulfill this goal, they are willing to do anything. they're willing to bend old rules as now is you, we see a political crisis in romania where nato is directly modeling through its prophets in the, in the cour

a key partner of nato and a key _ security, and a key partner of nato and a key ally— security, and of— nato and a key ally of the west and a key partner of the - nato and a key ally of the west and a key partner of the uk- nato and a key ally of the west and a key partner of the uk asi and a key partner of the uk as well— and a key partner of the uk as well as— and a key partner of the uk as well as an _ and a key partner of the uk as well as an economic— and a key partner of the uk as well as an economic partner, i well as an economic partner, but what _ well as an economic partner, but what the _ well as an economic partner, but what the events - well as an economic partner, | but what the events highlight guite — but what the events highlight quite clearly _ but what the events highlight quite clearly is _ but what the events highlight quite clearly is that _ but what the events highlight quite clearly is that any- quite clearly is that any country _ quite clearly is that any country is _ quite clearly is that any country is vulnerable . quite clearly is that anyi country is vul

that is part of why nato is so strong.ecause we are integrating those systems in a way that allows everybody to be interoperable. >> what europe should be saying and should be thinking, a few things drifting around, no one is seriously talking about that any longer because we know that this moment we need to work across the atlantic. supporting ukraine and keeping nato strong. there is lots that can be done when it comes to stabilization and operability. i don't have so much problems that we have different kinds of tax, but if they have different ammunition, if they cannot communicate with each other, then we have a problem. i want the element of diversity on the market. we have 14 different types of 155 shells in europe, for example. that does not make sense. i just want to reinforce what the secretary said that is so important. we talk about the 2% target. it is not nearly enough. going up to 2.4, that will not cut it either. what we should be measuring is available and capable military power and that demand focusing on

i believe nato of today -- i want to acknowledge the nato leadership and the leadership of many of its but, we are stronger today, more united, deeper in our resolve, we are learning how to work together and we are collectively answering the call to do more and to do it together. i believe that vladimir putin's intent in 2022 was to weaken nato, and i believe he has failed completely in that effort. it has deepened our resolve to defend ukraine and to work together. i want to acknowledge that in particular, secretary lloyd austin, america's defense secretary, for his remarkable work in bringing allies and partners together and also the leadership of nato in helping us come together. threats to our collective security are extend well beyond the attack on ukraine. they remain highly capable of projecting air, able, and missile forces across europe and antarctica and america. bush is asserting dominance -- russia is asserting dominance through cyber intrusions, funding armed terrorist organizations, and these actions threaten europe and north america, but they are a challenge to nato and

cavoli, nato supreme allied commander.he future of trade throughout europe and aid to ukraine were among the discussion topics. this took place during the aspen securoty -- secuirty conference -- security conference. >> thank you for joining us, this is a absolutely stellar panel to discuss europe and european security. we have four europeans, but i hear general cavoli's, russian and italian are both pretty good, so you can be an honorary european for the purposes of this panel. this is a sort of really critical juncture in europe. we're watching as ukraine's position on the battlefield has been eroding. europe is preoccupied with a series of domestic elections in which many countries are looking to turn inwards or preoccupied with domestic concerns in which often hard right parties have been on their political ascendancy, challenging some of the ideas and assumptions that anya outlined yesterday in her introduction about partnerships and internationalism and in which the bedrock of european security policy, the bedrock as

but does that mean nato will the other nato countries, certainly nato is not united. and, and certain nato countries are going to try and undermine even even any kind of negotiated efforts. but the reality is still their, their economy to shot their, their, and their, um, the, the fact that their industries are, are not functioning the way that they were you or pianist themselves, or even coming up with a notion that of something's got to change. so i think, i think we're in for a lot of changes. i don't think that the age 18 to 20 draft is going to is necessarily a done deal. and, and, and we're within uh, within, within a month now of, of a trump taking over. so i think we're going to see some accelerated efforts to try and bring this war to closure. well, that's how we're going out. the name of the am i going to move or the vice us a full, the senior security policy. i was in the office of the us, the secretary of defense. thanks again for your time. thank you right. bye. it's over now to yeah, i mean, west side of the nation's capital. so under a wouldn't let loos

that's a tool of nato. and so by virtue of ukrainian officers and trainers being working side by side, it's not surprising that nazis would be there with these as law making extreme us all they're doing so with the blessing and support of the west. so i'm not shocked by it at all. if the she was on the other foot, if the roles were reversed, different russia was providing the kind of support that the united states is providing to keep it fresh. it was providing that support in mexico, the united states would view that as an active board would retaliate. you know, i have candidly, i think for us has been entirely too patient throughout this because they interpret russian patient as weakness. and that, that's why this is continually the a bite and the bite and ministration is basically trying to set the world on fire before it leaves office. you know, i think they're doing a pretty good job of setting it on fire one out to london where reports the israel is violating it's shaking abstruse with hezbollah are i

but nato foreign ministers missing and brussels. still not saying yes. also coming up on the program is with miss rebels. ted, i'm a statue of the brother of syria. is president of charlotte side. does they continue their ids on it's in the countries northwest syrian all me forces are expected to launch accounts for a time the on monday, because it's mckinney and welcome to the program. nato secretary general, not cool to has a member states to step up that military support for ukraine is cool. comes off the ukraine once again pushed for progress on joining the alliance. so far in minnesota is amazing to discuss continued support for the keys and its defense against moscow . presidents a lot of means, lensky suggested that he could agree to the c side with russia. if nato extends its protection to the parts of the country controlled by keep a service i saw decline to say when or how it will all the ukraine membership that say the concerns that the with russia could escalate into a conflict involving the alliance multiple to has want to the next few month