he is committed to nato., he expects nato partners to spend more and mmp nato partners to spend more and ramp up defence production and he is right there. he's actually on the spot when it comes to ukraine, when it comes to nato, and we really need to work together. but to nato, and we really need to work together.— work together. but is he right when his tales _ work together. but is he right when his tales is _ work together. but is he right when his tales is a _ work together. but is he right when his tales is a landscape | when his tales is a landscape that zelensky is gambling with world war iii? that zelensky is gambling with world war m?— world war iii? listen, let me, lease, world war iii? listen, let me, please. not — world war iii? listen, let me, please. not to _ world war iii? listen, let me, please, not to be _ world war iii? listen, let me, please, not to be out - world war iii? listen, let me, please, not to be out to - world war iii? listen, let me, please, not to be out to everyi please, not

i wonder what are nato member states and their leaders? america's treaty allies thinking tonight after this display in the oval office? >> yeah. >> let's start. >> actually, in moscow, where. >> they're not. >> popping champagne because they're under sanctions from france. >> but they're breaking out the best bottles. >> of vodka. >> everybody is very, very happy in moscow. and you see that across russian television. now let's shift to brussels, where the greatest pool of allies, partners and friends the united states could possibly have in the world. our fellow democracies across this transatlantic bridge. there is despair. there is deep, deep concern and sadness over the way vladimir zelenskyy was treated in the oval office. the way he was. um, simply, i think, ambushed by the president and the vice president in a display that really does shame to the oval office of the united states. i think the question now, jim, is what happens in europe? let's face it, the spotlight will now go to europe. donald trump has made it clear he wants no pa

he can't rely on nato. nato does not have to wear with all they do not have the weapons stores. they do not have what is necessary to keep cropping up the ukrainian government. if the united states pulls out and it, it looks very much that the united states is in the process. now pulling out the conflict is over. it's done. and this is something that zalinski either does not understand yet was not willing to accept us. but this is today's reality, and it was laid out in the oval office this afternoon for all to see. all right, you have on lindsey graham, who has been shared support or of, of ukraine throughout the war has come out on the side of trump. best buy the speaker, listen. president trump was in a very good mood. last night. somebody asked me, am i embarrassed about trump? i have never been more proud of the present. i was very proud of j. d, but standing up for our culture, we want to be helpful. what i saw in the oval office was disrespectful, and i don't know if we can ever do business with zelinski again. doors say, now though, i'll ask the question now, is you crea

and that this was provoked by nato. and i would add him and deliberately provoked, and it's of course, a huge deal and a big step forward towards achieving a piece. because only wants to acknowledge that the other side is not motivated by rational, crazy impulses, but actually has actual concerns that need to be addressed. the create an environment where you can sit down around the table and try to address the concerns of all sides. so this is definitely a big deal, but i think, well, a lot of people on underestimate is that this is only to fast towards achieving a piece. i mean, the road to piece remains very long and tortures that i think. people are on the estimated just how difficult this will be because region pc ukraine is about much more to just acknowledging russian control over the next territories. something to trump even seems willing to concede, and it's not even just about stopping nato expansion. but from russia's perspective, it's about much more of this is about deeply reform in the international system.

c is very different from nato. a. nato is your security comes through the us military alliance. o. s. c, e is your security, comes through collective security that we can't be safe if the other side is on safe. so let's work together on assurances on the militarization on a neutral spaces on other ways to protect everybody's security. we are at a stage now where europe and russia really need to sit down in a serious way because there are serious issues on security, on both sides. and they need to be discussed by serious people on both sides. and it wasn't the work just a couple of months ago, a few months ago cuz on beautiful cultural city of cars on had the enormous bricks summit. many people calling it like literally the most important brick stomach to date. when the western political, the media establishment shows rather as being isolated on the world stage pollutants got no friends. here we have this amazing show of unity in cars on covered members of bricks, hotness, states joining and so many waiting in the wings. tom says brooks is dead, trusting and almost tyrus for countri

so if he understands why the expansion of nato is etc, yet since you entered results, this is a big, big good. what is it going to jump on? and it goes jumping zones off. and this is what is happening in this bottle, not in so far as europe is concerned. now you still have to actually now we draw support uh from uh the little ski or begin to withdraw simple to get. so you must do that if x media that's totally fine as it is a feeling that the public this has actually been found that the best because once medic, by then and united states before getting them to a lot of people following enough trump wants to push them away from lot and now they have 4 things. sometimes they have to have it, they have their own capability to all do on public opinion and towards their own. what do they go to careers? so they've gone simply back off and they don't want being died. and this is all of you communion. this does to collapse my at this moment when he's come under such pressure from the united states to also withdraw support from him. well they want to keep building is more dogs, etc. so that wo

they are not nato members, and we are not going to give them nato protection.ent of the united states cannot give them that kind of protection, because that's a treaty agreement. we don't have a treaty agreement with ukraine, and we're not going to have one. i don't think this goes anywhere except worse unless president zelenskyy either completely changes, which i don't think he will, or he steps down and we get a new leader in ukraine who is willing to have a peace agreement. rachel: kt, this kind of goes back to the beginning of of the war, this idea of making ukraine part of nato. he was enticed by the prior administration that he might be able to be part of that, and he wanted that and said, and they said, yeah, you should be, you should be part of nato. and that sort of really ticked off putin. and so what donald trump, i guess, essentially is saying is, no, you're not going to do that, and that's a way to bring about peace. why would volodymyr zelenskyy, when he sees, when he sees how many people are died in this war on his side and the other side and the

secondly, i can exchange it for nato if there is such an opportunity. >> now, taking the nato position off the table there, because i don't think that as they've expressed, the white house has any interest in, in ushering in or supporting ukrainian membership of nato. but is there a path forward with these three players still at the table? putin, trump and zelenskyy? i mean, there may be something between the u.s., russia and ukraine, but do you think that because it's so personal that that deal can happen with with zelenskyy? >> no, i don't actually lindsey graham came out and said that zelenskyy has to either send somebody else to be principal on the negotiations, which of course has been a core putin demand, or he needs to resign. and lindsey graham has been one of the only independent voices on foreign policy, uh, that's willing to stand up to trump on things like gaza, on things like usaid. so the fact that that's his position means that, you know, pretty much everyone around trump believes that zelenskyy's relationship with trump at this point is irrevocably broken. i think that'

we're committed to nato. nato has to step up and the europeans have to step up more than they have. they are in farless than we're in. and they should be at least equal. why is the united states -- we have an ocean in between -- why is the united states in for so much more money and other things as europe? with that being said -- and as you said they've been very helpful. but we have put in far more than they have. and i think they should equalize. >> mr. president -- president trump: what changed between the first time that the secretary gave zelensky the agreement and today? president trump: we made a deal. i'm just -- i'm a business person. we made a deal, that's what changed. i didn't think we were going to make a deal. and we ended up making the deal. so that changed. >> how do you envision a trilateral -- >> well, they don't like each other, i can tell you that. they do not like each other. this is not a love match. it's unfortunate. the united states should not have allowed this to happen, ok? the united states run by a man that didn't know much. i'm going to be very nice. ru

not forget, since harry truman assigned in 1949 that agreement, that essentially the attack a what nato ally would be an attack on all. and they would come to the defense. there was now a big question as to whether that european secure to come and be guaranteed by the americans for the future because essentially compass things. you know what guys, you don't want peace, i want nothing more to do for you. so really a lot of thing does not, it may have come out in support of landscape over the night, but they will be scratching the head. i'm desperately trying to look at. i would ship them off the key. they can put this to rest once in full because the reality is without the us is back in europe, is kind of in a c on its own drifting away from. i take us through, i mean, what was clearly a shouting match in the office. i mean, some people quoting it of some kind of w, w e, smack down event. he all off to that will win so terribly wrong for that. and he went out for an interview with fox news, take us through the country. that is how well that was basically a continuation of the, let's see,

the head of nato basically said that it the head of nato basically said thatitis the head of nato basicallyzelensky repairs that re| their behalf. and i also on their behalf. and i also think that we should find the right mediator, somebody who both sides can trust, who can mediate between

we ought to get out of nato, too, which of course would collapse nato. who would that most benefit? who for whom would that be? really, really good news. donald trump says, let's let russia back into the g7. donald trump is reportedly preparing right now for his own big in-person summit with vladimir putin. donald trump already started high level meetings between the russian and us governments, including an inexplicable 3.5 hour meeting specifically between the president's real estate friend and vladimir putin himself. steve witkoff came back from that meeting. and how'd that go? went pretty well for someone headline parroting putin and trump. witkoff says russia was provoked into invading ukraine. headline trump envoy can't name a single concession russia will make in peace deal. what does it seem like is going on here? imagine if a foreign adversary. imagine if the putin government somehow could just do a thought experiment. imagine they could somehow exert control or influence over the government of the united states. what do you think the putin government would have the us gover

we are committed to nato. but nato has to step up in the europeans have to step up more than they have and i want to see them equalize because they are in it for far less than we are in and it should be at least equal. we have an ocean in between. why is the united states in for so much money and other things as europe? as you said, they have also been very helpful, but we have put in far more than they have and i think they should equalize. >> what changed between the first time secretary bessent gave president zelenskyy and the signing? pres. trump: we made a deal. that is what changed. i did not think we were going to make a deal and we ended up making a deal. >> how do you envision a trilateral summit with president zelenskyy? pres. trump: they don't like each other. i can tell you that. this is not a love match. and it's unfortunate. this is why you are in this situation. the united states should not have allowed this to happen. the united states, run by a man that didn't know much -- i'm going to be very

they were not going to be in nato. they were not going to be militarily able to recapture crimea and donbas. the only two issues were how far could donald trump force putin back to his 2022 point borders, and how would he be deter it? and he came up with this idea of making a commercial corridor to get prosperity. and also it was a tripwire. so there would be westerners there that putin would not want to dare, you know, bother. i think, you know, just to finish on, he should take a notebook from benjamin netanyahu. the biden administration was very hostile to him. they ordered him to have a cease fire. they ordered him to have a wartime cabinet. they warned him about collateral damage. they didn't do any of that to zelensky. and yet when netanyahu came over there, he knew there was a hostile administration. he was gracious. he understood that he was a client. and talking to a patron as a guest, to a host, and he was able to weather that and deal with the biden administration and all good things happened. but he didn't

turkey is a nato ally. they are also an example of a backsliding democracy that was never able to reverse course. so the ominous example, erdogan is a poor role model in my view for president trump. not quite as bad as mr. ormonde in hungary, the principal exemplary. we know hungary, also a nato member, part of the eu and very complex set of relationships. we know countries like turkey, sensible allies, turkey has been a good ally in some ways in nato historically. as well as countries that have a more intense or even hostile relationship with the u.s., and even friendly countries. every foreign national that you deal with is an intelligence risk. their nations all want something from the united states. so in that environment, to have enforcement action where we are trying to cut off in the adams prosecution, establish accountability for an american official. in my judgment, the evidence was quite strong. to see this unraveling where you have ended quid pro quo that are alleged. not only that adams did favo

um, i mean from as being saying off and on its possible there is some presence of western european nato troops allowed in ukraine. and the 2nd level of the foreign minister said no. so what will happen to the soldiers if they turn up their, i mean, right now they're in my 6, they're in british special forces in ukraine. what will happen to these troops if they turn up the well, if they happen to come without rushes approval, which is not forthcoming, as, as we see, they may become targets for russian strikes. and that would involve of those countries into a direct and immediate military conflict where the russian federation, i hope that the rulers of european country is a consider that seriously before. busy it's too long before it's too late. but you've been saying what's been coming out of the mouths of these a european deletes, increasingly on popular with their own populations in recent weeks, they clearly see rusher as the enemy. they believe russia has designs on london and paris, and they seem to think that the by, even separating from the united states, they can take on russia a

a real with russia was a band to ensure your p, a nato allies, a choice. the prism trump certainly would want to avoid. so yeah, clearly there is talk of withdrawal of us troops occupying troops from western europe, but trump is wielding a degree of leverage against something economic leverage against east west and european countries. for other reasons. russia though, and we've been covering on this program over the past 3 years, was paying zalinski for the rent of the pipeline usage for gas into western europe and is supplying energy still to west and europe have. when is rest, you're going to sanction the countries of west in europe? well, i don't, so i wouldn't, i wouldn't bet on that of europe may eventually sanction russia and they're completely cut off those that never stay. so here it is union that are still getting gas from russia that would be a risky move in terms of the integrity and unit, sorry to interrupt that he was really advise that off the black market. that because it needs the energy con, supply of old united states can supply all of it

they are at just over 2% as far as defense spending in nato. i talked to the u.k.inister, they want to do more they will do peacekeepers there at about 2.5%. these are numbers where they are low as far as what they are contributing individually not only to nato but into ukraine. now is europe, they put in about $140 billion. that said, it is not enough if the u.s. steps aside. if the weapons stock, if the u.s. stops its support. you are right. europe probably cannot do it alone, despite their encouraging words that they tweeted out today. that is why today was so detrimental to the entire picture. all of the leaders acknowledge that this would not happen without president trump. he is the only person with this catalyst to change the paradigm that may be there could be peace. that's why it was so screwed up what happened in the oval office. >> sean: and you gave him every opportunity, i thought, to fix it. and you're right. you kept throwing him a lifeline, you may want to go here to make sure that he understood that was a fascinating interview on what was on incred

because the european nato allies now have to contend with the idea of their, perhaps us will no longer militarily support ukraine. and now they have to see they're able to step up to that challenge, fill that void and help defend ukraine, which is a challenge that many, many would be very difficult with the current state of armies in europe. thank you so much. i know that we will be talking to you in the coming hours as kissed on the end. zalinski mates. thank you. when you, as president donald trump was on the campaign trail several years ago, he was unequivocal about russia's role as the aggressor a new crime. but often assuming office in january, this being a shift in tone as he attempts to be a piece, make a, i'll just hear us. you have tons. he explains. this is a curious thing because trump has been consistent throughout. he's, he's horrified by this war. he's always talking about for college and the human toe here when we talked about galls have a much like bite and it, it doesn't seem to bothered about the human college and the tell them in fact a middle, there's discussion of

susan rice encouraged zelenskyy to push for entering into nato and sort of signaled we might do that,f course, ended up ticking off putin. and i think in many ways starting this invasion, and that's why donald trump has said, no no, you're not going to be a part of nato in this deal. we're going to leave that as a neutral area and also you're going to pay us back. the europeans, you guys, are also sending messages similar to the democrats saying we stand with you, zelenskyy. i think it's interesting because what i see is if the american people are not just seeing the ingratitude and sort of entitlement of zelenskyy, but that actually is emblematic of the europeans in general. they don't seem to care that we have our own problems here, that we have our own debt, that we have our own people the take care of -- charlie: we have our own border. rachel: we have our own border that we're just now finally, thank god because of donald trump, securing. and to walk in here with that kind of attitude, i think, is also a bad look for europe in general. but also i think reflective of who they are.

as for the, as the cost of oh, celebrates the 25th anniversary of nato's intervention that ended the fighting between the serbian and cause of albany and force. we were meant to be completely ethnically, cleanse people are power, examines the post for landscape and present the challenges for the regions youngest country. this is a vibrant nation state that is alive today because we took no attraction as possible the making of a states on that. just so you know, the latest news strong strikes so us, based on the ground is a really red line. mexico has a long, often painful history with the us military, with detailed coverage. this draws or is playing guides in the cold. the country remains in a kind of political and diplomatic limbo from the hoss of the story. zalinski saying he's willing to do a deal on his presidency for nato membership shows perhaps just how much is changed in recent weeks? the the, the so i'll just pull his on a. thank you very much. of a nickel south africa's crickets is have, or the book the place, and the champions trophy, semi finals, even though the game it g

ambassador to nato. and tuesday evening, president trump delivs an address before a joint seio of congress. wednesday, the mayors of boston, chicago, denver and new york city testify before the house oversight committee on the licies of sanctuary cities pink and c-span continues our comprehensive coverage of confirmation hearings for presidentru's leadership nominees the senate health education and labor pensions committee will hold hearings forwo nominees. onednesday, dr. jay bhatta wcharya and on thursday johns hopkins surgical oncologist martin beccaria as commissioner of the fda. watch live next week on the c-span networks print or on c-span nowour free mobile video app. also head over to c-span.org for schedule information or to watch a live or on-demand any time. c-span, democracy unfiltered. ♪ >> sunday on c-span's q&a, we will talk with national geographic explorer tara roberts who travels the world documenting underwater wrecks of 12,000 slave ships that operated during the slave trade. and reme

ambassador to nato. president trump delivers an address fo a joint session of congress. wednesday the mayors of boston, chicago, denver and new york city testify on the policies of sanctuary cities and c-span continues our comprehensive coverage of confirmation hearings. the senate health, edution, labor and pensions committee. jay bought a char area as the director of the national institutes of health. and commissioner of the fda. watch live next week on the c-span networks or on c-span now , our free mobile video app. head over to c-span.org for scheduling information or to watch live or on-demand anytime. c-span, democracy unfiltered. sunday on c-span's q&a, we will talk with national geographic explorer tara roberts who travels the world documenting the underwater wrecks of slave ships. the nonprofit organization diving with a purpose is primarily composed of african-american divers. >> i saw this picture in a museum, these women in a group called diving with the purpose and that they spend their time searching for an documenting slave ship wrecks around the world. t

worthless, and i think, you know, for all intensive purposes, nato is being treated as dead. and so it's a recreation of the european and they said that is the goal. now if you look at the trump critical minerals and gas and oil deal, but he's foisting on the right on the landscape without any security guarantee attached. this is very little different to what he's saying about greenland, or what he's saying about the panama canal, which has carpet deposit agreement allegedly has. whereas in rice go minerals. and this is a part of a, a, of a sort of drive to get these results is out of china's hands. china has a, you know, a choke hold on a lot of them, and they all visit them on the economy. they all key to the future economy, we're all talking about. so this is a sort of product tree foreign policy to penetrate foreign policy, but it's in foreign policy. at the same time, it seems to be turning down the temperature on china, turning down the temperature even on iran, from down to temperature, clearly with russia. so is it, is it predatory, or is it kind of also a combination

it doesn't necessarily mean ukrainian membership in nato. it could be the deployment of, for example, western european peacekeepers to ukraine to help deter russia from considering attacking. it could be a commitment to maintain the flow of military aid to ukraine, because a strong ukrainian military is the important guarantee of peace. so some security guarantees could still be established, even if it's short of ukrainian membership in nato. >> all right, dan ryder, thanks so much. >> thanks, victor. >> all right. new this morning, the vatican says that pope francis is resting after being put on a breathing machine. the latest setback came after the 88 year old suffered a respiratory episode yesterday. it was complicated by vomiting. the vatican source says that the pontiff, who has or has been admitted to the hospital, has been there for two weeks now for bronchitis and then pneumonia. he was not intubated, but he did have to use an oxygen mask. cnn reporter is outside of the pope's hospital there in rome. we at this hour usually get that

he's the former supreme allied commander of nato, a retired four star navy admiral, a partner at the carlyle group, a global investment firm. he serves on the board of advisors for a handful of defense related companies, and is the author of a terrific book, the restless wave a novel of the united states navy. admiral. i imagine you have seen many squabbles like this among world leaders and military leaders, but not on camera. yeah. >> you hit the right point. by the way, i agree with. your analysis. overall. um, i go back a decade ago when the nato heads of state and government, including our president barack obama, who, by the way, his nickname was no drama obama. he knew enough to keep those kind of disagreements out of the photo spray at the top of the event. and he and other world leaders would go toe to toe with hamid karzai about how we were conducting the war in afghanistan. putting that all on display does neither side any good. >> can the european allies make up for a total collapse of u.s. support to ukraine? >> i think they can. it's a matter of will, not capacity as foll

that's why they're not getting into nato. nato doesn't want them in nato. that's a trap. that's going to trigger world war three. the mineral deal is the security deal. because if americans are in ukraine doing business, russia is not going to start shooting at our contractors. ukraine is in no position to negotiate terms. we're in charge. we'll tell zelensky what the terms are. he can either accept it or fight russia himself, or go look for another sponsor. and good luck, because the europeans aren't going to cut it. and i get it. i have respect for zelensky. his country got invaded. he didn't flee. he stayed and fought. ukraine fought. they fought hard. they fought the russians to a stalemate in the east. an amazing job. but now it's trench warfare and they're dug in like world war one. and the ukrainians don't have the bodies to throw into the front lines like the russians do. that's why zelenskyy wants to end it. the europeans want to end it. we want to end it. and russia does too. that's why they're at the table. a proxy war that goes nowhere. is that in america's be