my loyalty is to walt nauta.that could be one of the complications here, they want to find a lawyer who might not perhaps, be so ethical. >> 11 am tomorrow, we'll see who walt nauta shows up with. mary mccord, former acting assistant tierney general for the national security at the department of justice, thank you so much for getting us started. into weisman, you are sticking with me. we have a lot more to get to tonight. including a trump appointed judge's controversial ruling that got the federal government 's ability to fight online misinformation. plus, today activists in ohio got enough signatures to get an initiative guaranteeing abortion rights on the ballot, even as the republican-led legislature tries some tricky moves to stack the deck against them. that's next. more shopping? you should watch your spending honey. i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. check it out you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, i'll look into that

to tell anyone that nauta was coming down, because nauta wanted the trip to remain secret. shortly after arriving at mar-a-lago the next day, walt nauta and carlos de oliveira, quote, went to the security guard birth booth, where surveillance video is displayed on monitors, walked with a flashlight through the tunnel where the storage room was located, and observed and pointed out surveillance cameras. the only reason we know that they did that is that the security camera video was not deleted, even though donald trump and walt nauta and carlos de oliveira tried to delete that video in criminal defiance of a federal subpoena for that video. the key element in the conspiracy to delete the video came at 9:48 a m, monday morning, when carlos de oliveira lock to the i. t. office, where trump employee 4 was working with another employee in the i. t. department. de oliveira request of the trump employee 4 step away from the office so that de oliveira and trump employee 4 could talk. all of their movements were recorded on the video that donald trump's criminal conspiracy failed t

nauta. you i think what the real question is, how much is this going to help influence what is already an incredibly strong indictment in terms of the evidence it has already suggested it has, much more evidence than we're used to seeing in an indictment. so all i can say is buckle up, because it's going to be a ride. >> emily, to you, how important do you think it was to add somebody like carlos deoliveira to the equation? to maya as point, you have video evidence that could corroborate some of the testimony provided either to the special counsel's team or the grand jury that's been seeded in this case. do you think somebody like carlos deoliveira is going to be a critical piece of this puzzle considering all the evidence that's been made public thus far? >> prosecutors make their cases strong and bullet proof as they can. if he has evidence about moving the boxes, he also add add lock to one of the doors at mar-a-lago, that is important to explaining the story of how these documents were h

nauta answered no. when asked if he had any information at all where those boxes are kept, nauta responded i wish i could tell you, i don't know, i don't. i honestly just don't know. it is now, of course, very public knowledge jack smith's office knows this is a lie and they can prove it. they have security camera footage of mr. nauta moving the boxes before making those statements. they have text messages of mr. nauta pchs where he talks about moving those boxes, again, before making those statements. but, still, today walt nauta pleaded not guilty. i don't know if that was his own idea or it was the legal advice he's getting but a certainly bold decision here. and the very live question now is how long will walt nauta stick with that decision? will he make it all the way to the trial with a lawyer paid for by donald trump? joining us now to discuss is the former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of megs, msnbc legal analyst barbara mcquade as well as david aaron, former federal prosecutor and int

nauta.se of the extensive testimony that hutchinson gave to the house, we know exactly what kind of legal representation that trump world is playing paying for. mr. passantino, the lawyer, told hutchinson things like, we want you to focus on protecting the president. we all know you are loyal. he gave her legal advice like the less that you remember, the better. while instructing her not to look at calendars, or to look at timelines, or do anything that could jog her memory. that is the kind of legal advice the trump world was paying for. it has a distinctly pro trump bent, doesn't it? but because of how detailed mrs. hutchinson's testimony was, it ultimately, in the end, we know the exact moment that she decided to flip. around june of last, year hutchinson believed that the house investigation might hold her in contempt of congress for not cooperating with them. this was the advice that her lawyer, again, paid for by a trump pact, this is the advice he gave at the time. there is a small el

nauta if he's convicted. >> and you make a good point about the picture that nauta sent that was to another worker at mar-a-lago that we know was also interviewed. jennifer, returning to the reporting that we had at the top of the show, this is from me and from the riest of our reporting team on this about jack smith having this renewed interest. people are being asked about it recently, about that insane oval office meeting that happened, you know, even by trump standards, probably one of the craziest meetings that happened in the oval office. what do you think when you hear that is something that jack smith and his team have also focused on? >> it strikes me, kaitlan, that if they are headed towards a brought conspiracy indictment against trump and others in relation to the attempts to overturn the election, that's the sort of evidence that they would be interested in because they're going to want to set out not only these individual strands of the conspiracy about the fake electors and the improper pressure on state election officials, state legislatures, mike pence, and so on, but they'

it just seems to me at one point walt nauta's utility has diminished. with this it seems like walt nauta is back in the sea and that there is so much pressure on him that he is on the center of this, and a fishman to carry out trump's plot. do you think, if you are his lawyer, using it is time to talk to the doj? >> if i were the doj i would want nauta, or de oliveira on the witness stand giving the story, narrating all the documents and all the different things we've talked about. it's always just much better to have somebody tell the story live. and i actually think what we are seeing here is that there was an attempt to get de olivera to cooperate, because the new charges against him that have to do with his false statements to the fbi in january were so obviously false, it's not like they had the transcript of them and they are just blatantly lying. >> sometimes, you know, you interview somebody and they tell you something but you don't realize at the time it's false and it takes time to figure out that they were lying. but here he says, i don't kno

nauta is one of his closest aides. he left the white house where he was a military valet under trump. and essentially has been by trump's side since. he has traveled everywhere with donald trump. he rides the plane. he's up in bedminster. when he goes daown to mar-a-lag. he's considered one of the most loyal followers. it's not the same relationship even though carlos' lawyer is paid for by one of the super pacs, a lawyer with an enormous amount of money from trump's super pac. it's not as clear what impact he's had on truck's inner circle. they know him. they were monitoring this could happen. but they don't seem to have the same relationship with carlos de la vera as they do with walt nauta. and that's something that beer going to be -- we're going to be watching closely. how exactly does this play out. what is the level of loyalty here between these three men. and obviously it complicates things when there is a third defendant. and i want to talk about one other thing that i am noticing, when we talk about the surve

just two days later nauta was interviewed by fbi agents and during that interview nauta was questionedut the location of these boxes extensively. he claimed he didn't know the location of the boxes and then after his interview with the fbi, nauta was observed by the camera footage moving more boxes inside mar-a-lago. so how significant is all of this, barb? >> well, i think it's very powerful evidence as to both walt nauta and donald trump. we know that these boxes get moved, and what's interesting is while a large number of boxes get moved from that area, not all of them come back, and so when nauta says he doesn't know anything about these boxes, you know, that clearly is false. but what is also interesting is we then see witness five, walt nauta escort donald trump's lawyer in there in the room we know now has not all of the boxes. that's where he conducts his review to say after the review, a diligent review, i conclude that we've returned everything in this small folder that he returns. and so it really brings walt nauta into this experience and shows how they were fooling the law

lied to them, and do you think that the case against walt nauta is a straight forward one? >> yes, it is. he is on video taking 64 boxes out, and bringing back 25 or 30 right before the search warrant, and that is what was revealed yesterday, and that we didn't know before, and it is straight forward, yes. >> and so, trump controlled entities is footing the bill for his defense, and that is what you are saying is how they are connected and how does that complicate what is happening here. >> the judge is going to make sure there is no conflict of interest, right? this is standard, and that is what the lawyer is doing is looking out for walt nauta's interest, and his alone, and he has to make sure that he agrees to that. >> so, we will see the next step in the process as we saw walt nauta entering in the courthouse for the first time today. sara? >>> the university of i.d. syd doing forward to demolish the house, and why some of the parents of the murdered children want them to hold off. >>> and what the university of philadelphia is trying to do to stop the proliferation of

nauta will eventually be held. ms. dadan has been active in republican politics mounting an unsuccessful campaign for the florida house in 2018. the application for search warrant of trump's florida home, that reveals that before he was codefendant walt nauta, the justice department and fbi referred to him as witness five. the revelation came after judge bruce ryan how reinhart unredacted more sentences of the affidavit used by the justice department to obtain a search warrant of donald trump 's florida residence. the washington post reports, the affidavit says the footage showed that on, the video recording footage showed, that on may 24th, witness five, a person described in the indictment as nauta, was observed carrying three boxes inside mar-a-lago. two days later, nauta was interviewed by fbi agents. he allegedly denied knowing much of anything about the location or movement of boxes at trump's home and private club, beyond the fact that 15 boxes had been sent from there in early 2022 to the national archives and

so, right now, nauta and him and -- their fates are intertwined. he is charged, of course, as you know, with conspiracy to obstruct the government investigation as well as concealment of these documents. the question is, how much longer are their fates intertwined? i mean, at some point, do they separate, simply because, you know, donald trump's -- and walt nauta, you know, they are not the same person. at one point, do they decide whether walt nauta needs to go his own way? >> they're intertwined, but donald trump has been told he's not allowed to talk about the case with one of his closest aides. evan, stay with us. i want to bring in our chief legal analyst, laura coates and senior law enforcement analyst andrew mccabe. laura, to you first, walt nauta, you know, he's an aide, he's a body man, he doesn't have the same resources or privileges as the former president, who is a billionaire. as this case moves forward, how risky is it for nauta to stick by trump? >> well, what you described is the leverage that's going to inure to the benefit of the

ty cobb recently said he felt sorry for nauta.what is easy prey for the president because he's a dedicated patriot. the proudest moment ever had was being named valley to the president and sadly the president he got name valet for is trump. michael schmidt is a watchdog correspondent for new york times who covers national security and federal investigations of he joins me now. michael, what can you tell us about walt nauta and this relationship? >> i think the important thing to know about what nauta is that he was someone who was there at the bitter end of the administration. he helped donald trump pack these boxes. he was some matt, even after january 6th, was still in the presidents inner circle. and even after trump leaves office, in the months after he returns to mar-a-lago, after biden becomes president, walt nauta is someone who goes and works directly for donald trump. you have to look at that in the progression of people around trump. they certainly changed over the four years. in the end, he has an attorney general who w

nauta? >> mr. nauta, anything to say? >> that was the scene. a little shaky, understandably. one of the big questions here is whether donald trump is going to really help this individual. this isn't the first time he's had someone in his inner orbit get into legal trouble, and it doesn't look like, from what we can tell, trump is helping that much with even getting a lawyer. he got himself one in time, but mr. nauta -- it took weeks to get what i showed you, him walking out of court today. special counsel smith indicted trump for all of these issues, including espionage, and he indicted nauta for conspireing with trump. everything nauta is accused of is for trump's benefit. there isn't any apparent benefit to nauta himself. michael cohen pled guilty to an election time that was for the election of donald trump, for his campaign, not his own. he didn't run. the same incident there is now part of trump's other criminal pending trial in new york. what i'm telling you tonight as we follow nauta's developments is that his entire case turns on trump. both men face the prospect of r

nauta set tomorrow in miami. keeping nauta on his side isn't just important in this case, it's also setting a precedent. just in the past few weeks we've seen high up trump affiliates brought in to talk to special counsel jack smith in his other investigation, the investigation into trump's attempt to overturn the results of the 2020 election. rudy giuliani, trump's former lawyer, and mike roman, one of the orchestrators of trump's fake elector scheme, both of them have reportedly met with jack smith as part of proffer agreements. fake electors themselves have been offered immunity in exchange for their testimony. as special counsel jack smith's investigation heats up, there is a very live question about who will flip and who won't, who could be a coconspirator and who could be a cooperating witness. joining us now mary mccord, former acting assistant attorney general at the department of justice and andrew wiseman, former lead prosecutor for the mueller investigation, former leader of the justice department's fr

walt nauta, represented by the same lawyer, is not a cooperating witness.you as an odd arrangement and potentially problematic? >> it causes anxiety. it is not necessarily improper for someone to help or assist with payment of council if they are an employer, per se, is not illegal or improper. but the concern is is that this is being used as a tool to keep a witness under control, to keep them from being fully candid with the department of justice. i can't say that that is what is happening here, we don't know that, but it does raise a concern and really i guess some of it is, stemming from the testimony that miss hutchinson gave us, because clearly that was the pattern they were using with her, and it didn't work, because she was an honest person. >> that is such a key point. it didn't work with cassidy hutchinson because she was an honest person. and your experience as a lawyer, does it all come down to these clients looking at their own internal moral compass and say what kind of person do i want to be, or making this naked calculation that trump might

nauta is the only other person in the case. from the indictment, it would appear all of it was done at the direction of the twice impeached, twice indicted former president. nauta's appearance comes a day after a federal judge unsealed more of the affidavit that the fbi used last summer to obtain a warrant to search mar-a-lago for classified documents. most of the newly un-redacted portions contained information made public in last month's indictment. it also included more insight as to why the fbi believed at the time that there were still more classified documents being kept at trump's resort, counter to trump's lawyer's claim that everything had been turned over after a diligent search. included is the detailed description of video showing nauta moving boxes. we learned that nauta was referred to in the affidavit as witness number five, which means there are at least four other witnesses whose involvements remain redacted and who likely cooperated with investigators. while it appears nauta is remaining loyal, perhaps he shou

so nauta did arrive this morning and joined by d.c.-based attorney stanley woodard, and nauta did not say a word as he walked out of the suv and into the courthouse. cnn has learned that he has added a south florida-based attorney, sasha nadan and she is a former florida expording with this sepation. as you noticed, john, he is expected to plead not gill toe obstruction and lying to investigators. the arraignment is expected to last a few minutes. according to prosecutors, he mo moved at trump's mar-a-lago resport. he moved them from one place to another, and then he lied about it. the move is an effort so that one of trump's attorneys would not be able to find some of the classified documents that had been subpoenaed by a grand jury. now, the prosecution, the prosecutor, the federal government sis they have surveillance video of nota moving the, bos before the fbi searched the property. nauta as you noted as well is a personal aide to the former president. he was here when the former president was ar raped, and however, because he was

these delays with nauta have been ongoing. in fact, nauta apparently struggled to find a local lawyer to represent him. delaying his arraignment for more than three weeks. on thursday, he finally pleaded not guilty to charges that he conspired with donald trump to obstruct and thwart the governments attempt to retrieve classified documents. the ex president illegally took from the white house. special counsel jack smith responded immediately to the request for a delay with strong opposition to the continuance. arguing, quote, neither of nauta's justifications are persuasive. an indefinite continuance is unnecessary, and will inject additional delay in this case, and is contrary to the public interest. the special counsel also notes that nauta's lead counsel has not yet completed a necessary form in order to receive a security clearance. this is obviously a key step ahead of the trial all about the mishandling of classified documents. tonight, just minutes after coming on the air, we got what looks like a possible resolution to

arguing, quote, neither of nauta justification's is persuasive's. and an indefinite continuance is unnecessary, it will inject additional delay in this case, and it's contrary to the public interest. the special counsel also notes that nauta lead counsel still has not completed a necessary form in order to receive a security clearance. this is obviously a key step ahead of a trial all about the mishandling of classified documents. in tonight, just minutes before coming on the air, we got what looks like a possible resolution to the delay motion. donald trump's lawyers filed a response saying that all defense counsel are available to attend the hearing on tuesday, july 18th. they added that they also checked with the special counsel smith, and he is willing to appear on that date as well if it works for the court. so now the big question is, to what degree is donald trump working as the puppet master here? trump and nauta our codefendants and coconspirators, while the ex president has been ordered as a bond condition, not to discuss the case with his

nauta hasn't done that.pressure will continue. >> and he of course doesn't have the conflict if you want to call it that of currently running for president. only the other defendant does. in the midst of this, we learned about surveillance video from mar-a-lago, showing boxes being moved prior to the fbi search. they don't identify who that is. >> it is pretty mreer it is nauta because the details arise against him in the indictment. this is the video that prosecutors will show in the trial, the video of nauta moving the boxes which prosecutors say was done at the direction of donald trump. we get a document, redacted doegs or more redactions lifted from the document of the warrant in last august. the surveillance footage was extensive. there were four imnls around the storage room. you could see people moving behind a refrigerator which indicated they were going in and out of the storage room. they say this witness, now we know walt nauta, moving 50 or so boxes out on one day and then taking more out and no

nauta? >> his arraignment comes a day after a federal judge is more of the affidavit you slap it last summer to search mar-a-lago. it survived surveillance footage showing nauta levine dozens of boxes in and out of the storage room days before investigators arrived to collect sensitive records still in trump's possession. also tonight, the washington post reports the federal prosecutors on this case are now facing increasing threats, including substantial harassment threats online and elsewhere, according to extremism experts, and a government official familiar with the matter. meanwhile, we're also keeping an eye on the fallout from a judge's ruling barring the white house from contacting social media companies about content on their sites. the justice department has already appeal that ruling, and tonight the biden administration has filed an injunction to keep that ruling from taking effect while their appeal is being heard. with that, let's bring in our lead off panel, katie benner, puli

him how did walt nauta get here?story, next. >> nearly every state in the country gives its governor some sort of line a veto power, where they effectively get to take a read editors pen two bills, crossing at certain aspects, and then sign the rest of the bill into law. notably, that authority isn't granted to the president of the united states. the supreme court struck down a federal veto back in 1998. despite bill clinton being president at the time, the federal line item veto it was the brain child of house republicans who saw it as a useful tool to rein in federal spending. during a successful campaign for governor, wisconsin republican scott walker effectively said as much the same. but he then served as trump's personal valet. he is the guy who had ring trump diet cokes to the oval office. when trump left office, nauta became one of the few aides to travel with him to mar-a-lago. by all accounts, the two are very close. there they are in philadelphia on friday, visiting a cheese steak shop. , nauta standing by

tell us what prosecutors believe they know about nauta? >> as we talked 24 hours ago, this unsealing of a less redacted document. still, approximately 50% of this remains completely redacted or redacted in part when you look at each paragraph in the search warrant affidavit. but what we did see yesterday is exactly what was promised, which is more granular detail as to what nauta was up to on those surveillance tapes. we know there was a series of back and forths with trump's lawyers and the justice department. that's been well reported on. what was new and interesting in this document is in probably frankly a road map to the potential trial against the former president and nauta was what it showed on the surveillance tapes, the back and forth and shuttling of boxes between rooms at mar-a-lago, the involvement of one of trump's attorneys and so when you look at this, you say, okay, if you're the fbi and people are making representations to you, you get a grand jury subpoena, and get that surveillance tape, and it shows something totally di

how damning is this for nauta?yasmin, jack smith had that speaking indictment that revealed a lot of this evidence, but these new details are especially incriminating. at the same time, that trump's people are claiming all of the documents have been handed over, investigators are watching video with their own eyes with walt nauta moving boxes back and forth. this is the same walt nauta who told investigators he didn't know where the boxes were. jack smith thinks that while donald trump put nauta up to this, up to these lies, which are the basis of the conspiracy charge, these new details seem to corroborate that trump was also trying to use his attorney evan corcoran to keep these documents hidden. cork ran says he'd been told there were no more classified documents anywhere at mar-a-lago, and that strengthens the case for the crime-fraud exception that will allow corcoran to testify against trump, even though corcoran is still representing trump. >> especially one that comes to fund-raising, it seems, he's not rea

nauta comes from a modest background, he grew up in a u.s. territory of guam., when he listed in the navy. he rose to the rank of senior chief culinary specialist. and in 2012, he began working at the white house during barack obama's second term. he stayed on for the trump administration when he was eventually promoted to valley and stationed outside the oval office, tasked with anticipating trumps every night. they formed a good working relationship. and when trump left the white house, he asked nauta to come work for him full-time. we know even less about carlos de oliveira. we don't even have a photo of him, and we might not get our first glimpse of him until tomorrow, when he is scheduled to make his first appearance in federal court in miami. but from what we do know, de oliveira is 56 years old. he worked at mar-a-lago for about 20 years. he's held multiple roles. currently, is the property manager of the resort. the special counsel jack smith's legal team has now charged both nauta and de oliveira with multiple crimes, including conspiracy to obstruct j

before the fbi searched the property and the feds said that nauta lead to them about the whereabouts about these boxes and he lead about not moving them. >> carlos, thank you so much for the very latest. very important developments today, jim. >>> a tale of video tapes. let's focus on what we're learning about the new surveillance video, taken out of the storage room showing a person moving boxes to an unknown location. to be clear the affidavit, the search warrant affidavit doesn't explicitly identified nauta as the person who moved the boxes. do we have any details of who else it could be? >> they're talking about someone who moves these boxes multiple times. returns with only 30. now additional details in these documents suggest this individual was interviewed by the fbi multiple times. we're moving the boxes was a significant issue, jim, and we know from our reporting all that suggest that yes this was walt nauta. what's remarkable in this less redacted affidavit is how much investigators knew, in early august 2022 before they searched mal how much information they gleaned from p

we believe that person to be walt nauta. carlos suarez, cnn, miami, florida. >>> $20 million, that is how much money republican ron desantis raised in the second quarter of his presidential bid for 2024. nearly half of that was in the first 24 hours of launching his campaign in may. a big number, but it pales in comparison to donald trump's war chest. the former president announced a haul of more than $35 million in the second quarter. this comes as desantis' wife casey just launched her mamas for desantis campus with this ad. >> we will not allow you to exploit their innocence to advance your agenda. we are no longer silent. we are united. and we have finally found our fighter. >> we're not going to let you impose an agenda on our kids. we're going to stand up for our kids. >> we need every mama and every grandma made in every corner of the country to stand up and fight back.everygrandma made in corner of the country to stand up and fight back. >>> on the democratic side robert f. kennedy jr. pulled in 6 million for his lon

that same day at nauta's request trump employee 5 can firmed in a signal chat grew with and nauta the pact representative, that de oliveira was loyal. that same day trump called de oliveira and told de oliveira the trump would get de oliveira on attorney. what does that sound like to you? to me all that talk of loyalty sounds like a scene out of a man of film. >> congratulations. he is you're congratulations. on >> what for. i got pinched. >> everybody gets pinched, but you did it right. >> i thought you'd be mad. >> i'm not proud, i'm mad i'm not manner proud of you. you took your first pinch is a man. and you learned first lesson in life. never rash on your friends, and always keep your mouth shut. >> never rat on your friends, and always keep your mouth shut. here's what the indictment says donald trump's new codefendant told fbi investigators when he sat down for a voluntary interview on january of this year. question, when, after the end of the presidency, boxes arrived at regular go, were you part of any group to help? answer. no. question. unload them, move them? answer. no. qu

donald trump and his co-defendant walt nauta. but walt nauta still has to plead not guilty.t has been about a month since the indictment, but he has had this dragged out for a couple different reasons about couldn't make his last appearance and he also needed to find a florida lawyer. so we're watching whether or not walt nauta shows up in person today, he doesn't absolutely have to. we think he may be there in person. for the first time by himself really in court without donald trump by his side, the man that he is traveling with quite consistently as his plal aide. and we're also watching to see who shows up as walt thnauts na lawyer. this is the spotlight on him as co-defendant, as that man that was known by the justice department last year before they searched mar-a-lago to be a person who was moving boxes and justice department realizing there were boxes missing and he is accused of obstructing justice and lying to investigators. but it moves him and trump directly toward trial. there is a lot of things that need to happen in this trial. this kicks it off. >> a signific

. >>> arraignment day for walt nauta. president trump's loyal aide and co-defendant, accused of helping the former president hide classified documents at mar-a-lago, facing a judge after two previous delays. >>> threads of success. the new social media platform launched by meta reports tens of millions of users in just one day. why some are calling this the twitter killer, as twitter threatens to take legal action. >>> a cruise ship slams into a pier in an american city. what passengers experienced when it happened. >>> more than $1 billion up for grabs. the mega millions and powerball jackpots growing by the day. americans rushing to get their tickets, hoping to win a fortune. >>> and america strong tonight. when an author thought his book was a flop, one new reader turned it into an overnight success. >> linsey: good evening, everyone, i'm linsey davis, in for david. we begin tonight with a tragic scene at one of america's busiest ports. a deadly cargo ship fire at port newark in new jersey. new images just coming in mo

walt nauta is very much involved. was on last week ordering eesteaks with former president trump.him at l these campaign events. he is being visited by a lawyer paid for by a trump linked political action committee. at some point, walt nauta is going to need to make a decision about whether he wants to go all the way through with this, go to trial, or prevented by this lawyer that is being funded by someone else and possibly risk of jail time or if he wants to be more cooperative and strike a deal. as of now, there is no indication he is going to flip on his boss. it is a formidable thing to go up against the justice department. the resources you need to do that successfully, that is not something walt nauta has without the political action committee. he is the one who could potentially, if convicted have to serve time. >> certainly could. paula reid, thank you for that. forrest. >>> russian military jets intercepted several u.s. drones flying over syria. he was accusing those jets of making unsafe maneuvers and harassment. we have details on those encounters. >>> defense official

with walt nauta, i was talking to people who worked in the white house with walt nauta and asking about that very idea. i do think there is a sense of loyalty, and that walt nauta was a valet, which is someone who goes and fetches cokes and drinks and whatever for trump when he was in office. trump took him to mar-a-lago. he gave him this job. he has kept him very close by his side. he is with him almost any time he travels. he is also play paying his legal fees through this superpac which is also paying trump's legal fees. i think when i've talked to people and asked if they think he would flip, they essentially argue the opposite, which is there is no reason for him to do so because he has this boss right now who is paying his legal fees and it's the former president of the united states. >> elie, we know prosecutors are pushing for a december trial. how likely is that? >> i think it's on the outer realm of what's doable. let's keep in mind, by the way, they lost a month trying to get walt nauta arraigned. it took three times. that's valuable time they lost. december is five months fr

nauta is itnot charged with the documents crime.parate investigation, and that is today's news. >> the third one. >> this is the third one overall, right. jack smith, we learned, has sentd a target letter to donald trump relating to the january 6th investigation. a target letter means doj sees the person as a likely, not definite, likely target of an indictment, meaning that person is likely to be charged criminally. we're on watch for whehat indictment comes and, if so, what it looks like. keep in mi, jack smith talked insiders, people who are very, very close to donald trump, from mike pence to mark meadows, jared kushner, his son-in-law, hope hicks, rudy giuliani. it seems that jack smith has covered all the ground hiere, ad he is giving every indication he is ready to move to his end game there. >> the fourth investigation, potential case, is in georgia. >> yeah, let's not forget. we're now back again to a state level. this is the fulton county, this is where atlanta is, the fulton county district attorney in georgia who has bee

but there were a few who really stood out to us as possibly having criminal exposure, walt nauta being the first. we know he was pressed to flip and he did not do that. and here we have carlos de oliveira. as you noted, his job is in maintenance. but he came to our attention because we learned that he was also seen on the surveillance footage moving boxes with walt nauta. now, this surveillance footage was handed over to investigators, and one particular piece of surveillance footage that stood out is when he helped nauta move boxes out of a storage closet right before one of trump's lawyers was searching that same closet for classified materials. now, we know that carlos has spoken with investigators, we also know that his phone was seized. now, he has a lawyer, like many of the witnesses in this case, who is paid by trump affiliated political action committee. his lawyer had no comment on these charges, but they are expected in court for an initial appearance next week. >> we'll talk a little bit about that lawyer and what the indictment says about that. coming up with our panel, pau

nauta delays his plans to travel, he stays. and all of this is triggered as they lay out the, hey, buddy, i want to get rid of this footage and the part about as you say the boss. the boss wants this stuff gone. it's incredibly damning, and it also shows that somebody's providing all this text information and all of this to investigators. >> 100%. and just as you laid it out just imagine that as the opening argument in a trial and then you've got these other individuals not named here but identified as employee number 1, are you cooperating witnesses, which it appears they are. >> it certainly does. it appears the director of i.t. who knew about the videos who's number 4, it afears from the text messages here that individual cooperated. >> yes, i can't think of another explanation for it. it's so damning, and just imagining that, that is what a defense counsel would say to a defendant to say you need to plea. in any normal circumstance, it's only because he's a former president and might be a future president we're in this abno

nauta thought he had a good situation. he was the only codefendant. and he was going to stay loyal to the former president. but now with the indictment of de oliveira, now it puts pressure on nauta to flip. because now jack smith has a potential new dance partner, you know? the first one to accept jack smith's proposal is going to get the biggest ring. and the other one gets a lump of coal. so you've got to get -- accept the offer when it comes to you. now you've got these two guys who may be playing off each other. de oliveira and nauta have important information, but in the end i don't think jack smith needs them as much as they need jack smith. because jack smith has something better, he has the notes of trump's lawyer, evan corcoran. he got that because of the exception to the attorney-client privilege that they were used in the commission of a crime, so the feds have trump's lawyer's intricate notes. i think with all the evidence that jack smith has, this is heading towards an ultimate conviction. >> yeah, but dave, you know, the biggest concern

he works for trump like nauta.s what "the washington post" had to say about him as he went from failed witness to defendant. the prosecutor dissatisfaction came in april when he was given a proper session, an interview where they meet with a person to decide if they have valuable information to offer an investigation. the kind that could lead to a plea deal. after the session, people familiar said prosecutors told his lawyer they believed he was not being truthful and he should except to be charged. what do you make of that that? is this the way this normally goes that someone like him who is not charge nd the first set of indictments, he gets charged in the superseding indictment? does that say to you he was somebody they thought they could flip then couldn't? >> yes, joy, and there are two breaking points for somebody who's the target of a grand jury investigation. one breaking point is typically before the indictment comes and i suspect jack smith worked long and hard on de oliveira and said listen, you can eith

this time to donald trump's aid walt nauta. investigators say after that phone call, nauta changed his travel plans. instead of accompanying trump to illinois, he flew to florida instead, a trip nauta apparently wanted to remain secret. 24 hours later nauta is on site at mar-a-lago with that property manager carlos de oliveira searching for those cameras. according to the indictment they, quote, walked with a flashlight through the tunnel where the storage room was located, observed and pointed out surveillance cameras. then jack smith in his indictment spells out a dramatic private conversation between that property manager, carlos de oliveira, and now another employee who they call trump employee number four, who was mar-a-lago's i.t. director. carlos de oliveira asking how long the footage is retained. the i.t. director says, approximately 45 days. then carlos de oliveira telling that employee, quote, that the boss wanted the server deleted. employee number four, the i.t. director pushes back saying, he would not know how to

what do we know about walt nauta's new attorney an arraignment? >> she handled some dui cases, she's advertised recently, she has long experience in the public defender's office in florida and that's her background and history. this was a little bit of a struggle for them to find someone to represent walt nauta, who was a lawyer locally, he's still obviously represented by stanley woodward, who entered just a few moments ago, that nonguilty plea on his behalf. walt nauta acknowledged that he has read the charges against him, but it was a pretty brief hearing all about five minutes overall. >> and, tom what did we learn from the unredacted portions of the search warrant affidavit? >> yesterday we were talking about this, we probably would almost certainly get nothing as far as the ongoing investigation or getting any sort of details about potential witness names that aren't already out there and aren't already public and that we would probably get some granular detail behind what led the fbi to conduct this search. and that might help inform us mor

and he picked on nauta and he picked on this carlos de oliveera. he found employees who will do anything for him and that is a crime in itself. >> and they put in the superseding indictment the transcript of the interview that the fbi had at carlos de oliveira's home. you read it and you see someone who is leaping, before he is even asked a question, he says, no. he is lying before he is even asked. that was so interesting to me about just the conduct of someone who is embroiled in a very serious case and his willingness to go there for trump. >> it's sad. i don't even know if he understands the magnitude of what he has gotten himself into now. note that the lawyers didn't fall for this. most of us lawyers are pretty good about to try to cover ourselves and not be coerced by a client to lie in their behalf. they knew better. i see it as a shame these junior level individuals who are not attorneys or trained in the law will take the fall for this guy and it is a sad situation. >> and trump, it also explains why you have to charge the person who is t

and represent nauta's best interests.y understanding, he's going to be paid by a pac money. it's going to be difficult to take -- get a lawyer, some lawyers won't take the case because of the -- you know, the animosity on certain figures in the case. some law firms won't allow their partners to represent anybody that could be damaging to their reputation or conflict with their current clients. but there are plenty of lawyers of florida that are members of southern district who could represent him very competently. >> it's hainteresting for walt, because he's a codefendant to his boss. if you could talk to walt nauta, what would be your advice as he's looking for a defense attorney to guide him through a case where we know his interests will diverge from that of former president trump's. >> that's always a difficult situation. nauta is not the key figure in this case. he's a lesser figure by many standards. he's very alegent to the president. he's former military. he probably has his own strong beliefs. he's going to have

, a possibility nauta is there himself. but this proceeding, it puts the focus on this co-defendant of donald trump, a man who is so aligned with him that they are rarely seen apart whenever trump is traveling for political reasons. trump is not going to be there at the hearing today. but this is really highlighting how walt nauta is a defendant on his own and so he will kick off this proceeding entering that pleading. but also these two men are so aligned, they both want to go to trial sources are telling me, that is the plan for both of them, trump and nauta both even if their interests could diverge at some point. and trump has been very looped in on walt nauta's legal defense approach, who his lawyers might be, his defense team is fully clued in and also donald trump will be paying for walt nauta's lawyering going forward. or at least entities that trump controls will be doing so. >> so that the classified documents probe. the other probe special counsel jack smith is overseeing in terms of efforts to overturn the 2020