we have neal katyal am who knows more about presidential power than anyone. he has argued in the supreme court, he knows the 21st century version of that. he's going to deal with exactly that question and this is how we're going to break it to them >> get to it. thanks, lawrence. >> thank you, rachel. the breaking news of the night is that president trump's wall has been crushed. the trump wall has been crushed by a veto-proof majority in the united states senate, 83-16. and that vote understates the actual opposition to the trump wall in the senate because five of the votes against that government funding bill that does not fund the trump wall were cast by liberal democratic senators, most of them running for president, who are strong opponents of the trump wall. and moments ago the house of representatives passed the government funding bill by a vote of 300-128, another veto-proof majority in the house of representatives. the president's signature is not necessary on this bill. it was never going to be necessary. suspense about the signature has always been

we'll break it all down with neal katyal. acting solicitor general. sol wisenburg, and jim himes. and arkansas governor asa hutchinson. >>> also, that coast guard lieutenant charged with plotting to kill democratic politicians and journalists. >> the sheer number and force of the weapons recovered from mr. hasson's residence, coupled with the disturbing nature of his writings appear to reflect a significant threat to the safety of our community. >> how widespread is this kind of violent white nationalism? and why did the government stay quiet about the arrest? my guest this morning, former homeland security secretary jeh johnson. >>> and off and running -- >> our campaign is about transforming our country. >> bernie is back. democrats are out in force in the early voting states. we're already seeing surprises. joining me for insight and analysis are nbc news foreign affairs correspondent, grae mitchell. republican strategist al cardenas. and lonnie chen of stanford university. welcome to "meet the press." >> announcer: from nbc news in washington. this is "meet the press" with chu

neal katyal, i would like to talk to you.e will tomalcome tot anything you would like concerning andrew mccabe. but the more important point i heard from andrew mccabe was after announcing to democrats and republican leadership in the congress that the fbi had launched an investigation on the president of the united states, none of them had any real questions about it, none of them raised any doubts about why the fbi would be investigating the president of the united states. >> yeah, i'll let natasha speak to the particulars because she's an expert on that, but i think what that story and what mccabe said today and what the "new york times" reported today in an extensive article together all have the same theme, which is donald trump is engaged in a direct assault on the rule of law. and, you know, i think the public sometimes gets a little bit tired of that. there is almost a fatigue, like, oh, that's not new. we've heard that before. and i think the most important thing coming out of today's events, including your great int

mexico is going to pay for the wall. >> mexico will pay for the wall. >> back now with steve cortes, neal katyal, just from a constitutional standpoint, can you make an argument that is not hypocritical that support what's the president is doing and yet criticizes it when obama did it, or when obama tried to do something? neal? can you make that argument? >> oh, is that to me? >> it seems like there is a lot of -- >> look, you can make any arguments you can. right. yeah. so it's totally hypocritical and totally different as well. so steve right. there is the national emergencies act, and lo and behold, that requires a national emergency. so he has to point, trump has to point to something that is a national emergency. and here we have really good indicia that there isn't one. all 31 prior times, including burundi, the statute was implemented not in defiance of what congress wanted, but because there was an emergency gap and not time or attention by congress to a specific situation. here you really have the paradigmatic opposite. the wall was an issue in the 2018 election. trump lost. the wall is

joining us today is kirsten powers michael caputo, and former obama acting attorney general, neal katyalis what stone posted instagram legal? isn't it a crime to threaten a judge? does that post meet the standard? >> there are two issues, one is about stone, the other is about trump. with respect to stone, it's undoubtedly a crime. it is a crime to threaten a federal judge. now, he has tried to walk it back, saying, oh, i didn't mean it and so on. the crosshairs were some logo or something like that. but let's be honest here. you know, this is a photo that he tweets, attacking a federal judge with a big photo of her and a crosshairs on top of it. you know, that, you know, for the federal judiciary which works so hard to try to safeguard all of us, this is a real problem. and then the other problem is trump. you haven't heard a word from him about this. i mean, he talks all about the nfl protests and this and that whenever that happens. and here you have one of his own closest confidants doing this and you hear deafening silence. and we've put up with a lot in the past, anderson, but the

. >> joining me now, neal katyal and sol wiseerg. welcome to both of you. all right. you're my counselors for this. neal, let me start with you. we have a lot of open reads here. what -- what is mueller potentially could still do thnt the presihould be concerned about before submitting this report? >> mueller can do a lot. he's done some things. we know he's indicted 37 people and 199 different countsin incltrump's inner sirkle. people like michael flynn, paul manafort. his campaignmaager. michael cohen, his personal lawyer. so if this is a witch hunt, mueller's found a koeccoven at . po there are smaller ones, like jerome kor si. and bigg eger fish, as well. and then you have qwhstions abou's the report going to say? >> and i want to get to that. sol, rudy giulia said he hasn't heard from him -- the special counsel's office now, in about a month since they turned in the answers of their question. the lack of communication. should thatr make theident nervous? >> i think it should make him nervous. but in answer to one of your questions to neal, i think that -- it's dif

neal katyal is here to discuss it. good evening, neal. so good to have you on.ou. >> good evening. >> you've heard the judge's ruling about paul manafort. what are the implications for president trump here? >> i think they're big. so i mean, you know, one question is why is paul manafort lying? and you've been talking about that on your program thus far. and you asked, you know, is it just because he's a grifter or something like that. and it can't just be that, don, because at the end of the day, you know, paul manafort's not just, you know, lying about like what he bought at cvs or something. he's lying about some of the most sensitive things imaginable, contacts with the russian government, russian intelligence operatives, and he was facing, as you pointed out earlier, a life sentence. so why would you -- or effectively a life sentence. why if you're paul manafort do you lie in that situation? i think there can be only one answer that comes to mind, which is he's doing it to protect trump. he's doing it to try and angle for a pardon from trump. >> interesting

neal katyal, the former acting solicitor general of the united states under president obama, had this reaction to today's hearing. >> the preposterousness of this man being the attorney general of the united states, you saw someone who is so unqualified he shouldn't be the attorney general of 30 rock. 3 rock, a 7th grader would have done a better job, a more respectful job than what he did. it was arrogant, it was irresponsible and it really calls into the question the president's judgment for putting this man at the head of the hallowed department of justice. >> in other exchanges during today's hearing, the acting ag was pressed on how he views the special counsel and whether he agrees with the president's characterization of this investigation. >> do you agree with the president's statement that the russia investigation is a witch hunt? >> as i mentioned previously, congressman, i think it would be inappropriate for me to comment about an on going investigation. >> i have been on the record about my respect for bob mueller and his ability to the conduct this investigation. >> do yo

its author is neal katyal, the man who drafted the special counsel regulations, who joins me tonight.o ask, when attorney general barr gets word that mueller's finished, what is the timeline from there? when does barr actually get the information from mueller? when does barr have to provide a summary to congress? how does it kind of play out? >> it's all, anderson, speculation at this point. so we don't actually know that mueller has turned -- is going to turn in the final report. we don't know when that is. we do know the special counsel regulations required at some point. and yes, there are all sorts of stories, including first reported by your network, that says the report is coming maybe as early as next week. but this is all still at the level of it could change at any moment. the regulations and the law don't require the report at any time. let's say that mueller turns the report over to barr next week. barr is then going to conduct a review of that report, and i think there's nothing nefarious about an attorney general review of the report. there could be classified sources and

. >> the other view of what the mueller report could be is written by neal katyal in "the new york times," and he says the report is unlikely to be a dictionary-thick tome, which will disappoint some observers, but such brevity is not necessarily good news for the president. in fact, quite the opposite. a concise mueller report might act as a road map to investigation for the democratic house of representatives and it might also lead to further criminal investigation by other prosecutors. a short mueller report would mark the end of the beginning, not the beginning of the end. and so congressman himes, there we see the two possible versions of the mueller report, the extensive one, all-encompassing as andrew mccabe says he expects, and neal katyal recognizing the possibility it could be something much shorter. >> yeah. and that's right. and i mean, who knows? we could get into an awful lot of speculation about how big, how small, what it will contain. one thing is for sure, and i say this because one of the real tragedies of this whole experience has been the president of the united stat

. >> neal katyal is coming on.ther guest to be jealous of. another night with d. lemon. >> i'll see you. i'll see you in a second. >>> all right. so the manafort news tonight -- that's why he has neal katyal on. great guest for that. there's a central question there, and we've been asking it throughout this entire inquiry, and it is time to focus. and this manafort decision makes the main concern that we should all share clear. the argument next. to be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing it's best to make you everybody else... ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪ >>> why lie? that's the question about paul manafort, and it is the question that i argue is at the center of all this russia stuff. a judge ruled tonight that the osc, office of the special counsel, proved manafort lied to them about his meetings with a russian operative and to the grand jury and to the fbi, and he d

jeffrey toobin, pete bharara and neal katyal. the president can say this is harassment and threaten it all he wants, but there's not much he can do about the democrats in the house who are investigating him, is there? >> nothing. zero. think about how profound this is. this is something that is the stuff of political thrillers. which is, where are the loyalties of the president of the united states? if you look at the interaction, for example, of the negotiations for trump tower in moscow and what he's saying about vladimir putin during the campaign, there is a tremendous intersection between them. and this is what this investigation in part is about. >> and also not being up-front about the trump tower deal. >> at all. but even more profoundly than just simply lying is the question of whose interests? is it the people of the united states or is it the personal financial interests of donald trump? >> preet, do you agree with jeff, that this is potentially hugely significant? >> yeah, i think. and i think a couple of things to rem

we'll break it all down with neal katyal. acting solicitor general. sol wisenburg, and jim himes.

we'll break it all down with neal katyal. acting solicitor general. sol wisenberg.emocrat jim himes.

as neal katyal said, if this is a witch hunt, they've found a coven so far.cannot be let to stand. i woulz caution that going forward in 2020, we don't know what impulses now in social media are being programmed from ow. and we have seen the forensics of what happened in and i see a lot of things going viral. i'm no so us suspicious about anything i'm reading. >> why aren't the americans more susp ious? he nevys, i'm looking forward to the special counsel's report >> i think i comes back to the politics. given the president has a 90% approval r rating witublican voters, i think most republicans feel like questioning the president puts them at odds with their base. and it puts themdd atto someone with a powerful microphone. >> is there something more sinister here? does it come back the putin? >> the president not saying directly, i look forward to the report. these are things that raise additional suspicion. >> i think richard nixon publicly claimed he wanted to reports to be published. >> i thinga it'irly simple political calculus. >> it will not make go awa

jeff toobin, neal katyal, carrie cordero, i appreciate it. thank you. >>> coming up next, breaking news. another long-awaited moment comes into view, and it's happening soon. michael cohen's public appearance before congress, we've just gotten the date. we're joined by john dean, who has been where mr. cohen is, and with karl bernstein to talk about the breaking news. >>> and later, how actor jussie smollett went from celebrity victim to alleged criminal. the breaking news on that and more as we continue. steven could only imaginem 24hr to trenjoying a spicy taco.burn, now, his world explodes with flavor. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for all-day all-night protection. can you imagine 24-hours without heartburn? you won't find relief here. congestion and pressure? go to the pharmacy counter for powerful claritin-d. while the leading allergy spray only relieves 6 symptoms, claritin-d relieves 8, including sinus congestion and pressure. claritin-d relieves more. ♪ don't fence me in. ♪ let me be by myself ♪ in the evenin' breeze, ♪ list

. >> neal katyal is coming on.k everything manafort at the top of the hour. >> another guest to be jealous of. another night with d. lemon. >>> so the manafort news tonight -- that's why he has neil call y'all on, great guest for that. it is time to focus, and this manafort decision makes the main concern that we should all share clear. the argument next. with fidelity wealth management you get straightforward advice, tailored recommendations, tax-efficient investing strategies, and a dedicated advisor to help you grow and protect your wealth. fidelity wealth management. >>> why lie? that's the question about paul manafort, and it is the question that i argue is at the center of all this russia stuff. a judge ruled tonight that the osc, office of the special counsel, proved manafort lied to them about his meetings with a russian operative and to the grand jury and to the fbi, and he did so more than once. the judge also ruled that the osc did not prove that manafort lied about his aassociate yat's role in messing w

you join neal katyal and george conway's legal argument against it. >> look, i think -- i would.now, if i were a republican, an ambitious republican looking for the future, i'm not talking about the short-term future. i'm talking about republicans who might in some theoretical universe decide to challenge trump in 2020, but if you're looking down the road for life after trump, something they wouldn't fathom that there would be such a thing, one of the most incomprehensible things in the world, as an example, people who lied to house intel committee, not considering in two years down the row, democratics could be in the lead and they could be tri tried. they find it impossible to focus their minds 24 months or six years forward that there's a world after donald trump. in that world, standing up to donald trump on this issue, exhibiting some kind of spine, some principle, and i'm not saying some of the old republican varates would do them great good in their long-term political futures, but you know, they have behaved in totally irrational ways for the last two years in term of the

michael isikoff, neal katyal, who just argued before the supreme court today, wonder if we'll wind up in a forum like that anytime soon, we also have laura coates and garrett graf. couldn't ask for a better panel. thank you for making yourselves available. mike, let me start with you and we'll go down the line. >> yeah? >> what was the day and what was there not there today? >> riveting testimony. it's hard to remember a witness before congress who just was laying out a case against the sitting president of the united states. you would have to go back to john dean, of course. when you go through, certainly, the testimony about the campaign finance violations, the payoffs to stormy daniels, that's the one clear federal crime that president trump has been implicated in. but, does it go all the way? no, because cohen did not, when he described his conversations with trump about this, did not say that it was explicitly about the campaign, which would -- which you would need to prove a campaign finance violation. the timing is helpful, but if you want to make a case against the president,

jeffrey toobin, former obama acting solicitor general, neat katyal, who we know is coming to us from maui, and legal analyst carrie cordero. neal, explain for nonlawyers what william barr is supposed to do with mueller's findings, what's mandatory and what's optional? >> the special counsel regulations were written in 1999, and they require mueller the special counsel to give a confidential report to the attorney general that outlines really in some detail, although it is a summary, but some detail what he's done, the state of his investigation, and the like. to the extent the reports today are accurate that this is kind of his final summation, that will be what that is. there's also a separate provision on the regulations for urgent action reports, and it's certainly possible that all this is is mueller saying he's providing some sort of report but not a final report, doesn't say he's concluding the investigation on his own or anything like that. so that's step one. let's assume it's a final report from mueller. then it goes to the attorney general and then the attorney general is to provide a second report to congress. and it