186
186
Feb 28, 2013
02/13
by
CNNW
tv
eye 186
favorite 0
quote 0
neil heslin breaks your heart. i mean, this youngster was the light of his life. every promise, every dream lay ahead of him. and all of these children were, to their parents. and they're all gone. and you have these brave, young women who went in there, who put their arms out. who protected them. who got riddled with bullets. is this the america we want to live in? it is not the america i want to live in. >> senator, i want to read you what wayne lapierre from the nra said about you personally, on saturday night. dianne feinstein commented she has had a gun bill on her desk, waiting for the right time. so people can be persuaded to her political agenda, so on and so on. very patronizing, very insulting from a man who it seems to me, his modus operandi, seems to be the sale of more guns. >> they have made it difficult for everybody, for the atf, the btf to do their jobs. they have made the law difficult to do proper research. all so that manufacturers of weapons can produce more. and then they press all of this. so it is a gun culture. and that gun culture is lett
neil heslin breaks your heart. i mean, this youngster was the light of his life. every promise, every dream lay ahead of him. and all of these children were, to their parents. and they're all gone. and you have these brave, young women who went in there, who put their arms out. who protected them. who got riddled with bullets. is this the america we want to live in? it is not the america i want to live in. >> senator, i want to read you what wayne lapierre from the nra said about you...
149
149
Feb 28, 2013
02/13
by
MSNBCW
tv
eye 149
favorite 0
quote 0
his name is neil heslin. neil heslin. jesse heslin was killed in the massacre at sandy hook. this is neil heslin. >> i'm jesse lewis' dad. jesse was brutally murdered at sandy hook school december 14th. 20 minutes after i dropped him off. this picture is a picture that was taken when jesse was six months old. it was our first christmas together. the morning of december 14th, jesse stopped -- we stopped at misty veil deli, got his favorite sandwich, a sausage, egg and cheese and hard roll. and he ordered me one. he would always do that. i'd get a coffee and jesse would get what he called a coffee, but was a hot chocolate. we proceeded to the school. it was 9:04 when i dropped jesse off. the school clock. jesse gave me a hug and a kiss at that time, said goodbye, i love you. he stopped and he said "i love mom too." that was the last i saw of jesse as he ducked around the corner. it's hard for me to be here today to talk about my deceased son. i have to. i'm his voice. i'm not here for the sympathy and a pat on the back, as
his name is neil heslin. neil heslin. jesse heslin was killed in the massacre at sandy hook. this is neil heslin. >> i'm jesse lewis' dad. jesse was brutally murdered at sandy hook school december 14th. 20 minutes after i dropped him off. this picture is a picture that was taken when jesse was six months old. it was our first christmas together. the morning of december 14th, jesse stopped -- we stopped at misty veil deli, got his favorite sandwich, a sausage, egg and cheese and hard...
224
224
Feb 28, 2013
02/13
by
KPIX
tv
eye 224
favorite 0
quote 0
. >> reporter: on capitol hill 50-year-old construction worker neil heslin wept. he spoke on the assault weapons like the one that killed his 6-year-old son jesse in the massacre. >> it's something that should have never happened at the school. >> reporter: his words drew tears but not support. senator dianne feinstein proposed the ban that would outlaw assault weapons and magazines that carry more than ten rounds. >> and that is legal today. >> reporter: but republicans like senator lindsey graham say the bill would violate a person's right to bear arms and avoid the lack of enforcement for current laws. >> i'm a bit frustrated that we say one thing how important it is but in the real world we do absolutely nothing to enforce the laws on the book. >> reporter: the senator questioned milwaukee's police chief on why so few people are prosecuted. >> i want to stop 76 -- i want to finish the answer. >> no. >> i want to stop 76,000 people from buying guns illegally. that's what a background check does. if you're think we're going to do paperwork prosecution, you're wr
. >> reporter: on capitol hill 50-year-old construction worker neil heslin wept. he spoke on the assault weapons like the one that killed his 6-year-old son jesse in the massacre. >> it's something that should have never happened at the school. >> reporter: his words drew tears but not support. senator dianne feinstein proposed the ban that would outlaw assault weapons and magazines that carry more than ten rounds. >> and that is legal today. >> reporter: but...
131
131
Feb 28, 2013
02/13
by
MSNBCW
tv
eye 131
favorite 0
quote 0
and it wasn't okay. >> well, neil heslin joins us right now.hank you for joining us tonight. >> thank you. >> and i guess i have to ask you about your willingness i think as a public service not just an honor and love to your son but to the country. what would you like to see happen here? >> i would like to see many changes happen that would work effectively to prevent this from ever happening again. any mass murder. i believe we had seven of them this year alone. that's far too many. >> let me pick them off. do you think it would help to have a trained police officer in the hallways of these schools? i'll take the nra position at first. do you think that will be helpful? >> i agree. i think it would be helpful. it's not going to settle -- solve the problem. it's not a solution to the whole problem in complete, completely. >> we live in this country with so many guns. i think there are more guns in this country than people now. where do we start? do you think we should start with assault weapons that were used here? these semiautomatics, with t
and it wasn't okay. >> well, neil heslin joins us right now.hank you for joining us tonight. >> thank you. >> and i guess i have to ask you about your willingness i think as a public service not just an honor and love to your son but to the country. what would you like to see happen here? >> i would like to see many changes happen that would work effectively to prevent this from ever happening again. any mass murder. i believe we had seven of them this year alone. that's...
215
215
Feb 2, 2013
02/13
by
FOXNEWSW
tv
eye 215
favorite 0
quote 0
neil heslin the father of a newtown massacre victim was testifying and here is how msnbc played his testimonywhy anybody in this room needs to have one of these assault style weapons or military weapons with high capacity clips not one person can answer that question. >> please, no comments while mr. heslin is speaking. >> jon: here is what msnbc left out of that actual encounter. >> does anybody in this room can give me one reason or challenge this question why anybody in this room needs to have one of these assault style weapons or military weapons or high capacity clips? not one person can answer that question. >> please, no comments while mr. heslin is speaking. we'll clear the room. mr. heslin, please continue. >> jon: he asked the room for an answer and that part of it, his request was left out of the discussion. selective editing? >> all i can say, there they go again. there is a pattern, at that network there is a problem here. that was portrayed as the heckling of the father of the child that had been killed at newtown. it was bad editing. >> jon: i don't think anybody in that room w
neil heslin the father of a newtown massacre victim was testifying and here is how msnbc played his testimonywhy anybody in this room needs to have one of these assault style weapons or military weapons with high capacity clips not one person can answer that question. >> please, no comments while mr. heslin is speaking. >> jon: here is what msnbc left out of that actual encounter. >> does anybody in this room can give me one reason or challenge this question why anybody in...
136
136
Feb 27, 2013
02/13
by
MSNBCW
tv
eye 136
favorite 0
quote 0
that was as you know neil heslin.ught captures this debate on gun control. he said the second amendment says a well regulated militia. then he said well, it hasn't been well regulated. that's true, isn't it, julian? >> that's right. and we know that regulations will actually reduce the number of gun crimes we've seen in this country. the data is overwhelming. what i think we're seeing here, martin as we've discussed before is this massive shift in public opinion with testimony like the testimony we just saw. vice president biden eluded to the fact today if anybody saw a scene of the crime -- a photo of the crime scene that bans on clips would pass in a jiffy. i just saw the attendant here. you should ask him on your show to give a vivid description of what the crime scene was like. and this was part of the reason this issue is seeping into the front of the consciousness of the american people right now. you combine that with what happened in chicago where mayor bloomberg investigated a significant amount of resources
that was as you know neil heslin.ught captures this debate on gun control. he said the second amendment says a well regulated militia. then he said well, it hasn't been well regulated. that's true, isn't it, julian? >> that's right. and we know that regulations will actually reduce the number of gun crimes we've seen in this country. the data is overwhelming. what i think we're seeing here, martin as we've discussed before is this massive shift in public opinion with testimony like the...
590
590
Feb 28, 2013
02/13
by
KNTV
tv
eye 590
favorite 0
quote 0
. >> reporter: neil heslin today called for a ban on assault weapons.motions ran high all day. >> it's time for congress to pick a side. this time i hope it's law enforcement's. >> reporter: the milwaukee police chief got into it with republican senator lindsey graham, who today said he owns a so-called assault weapon over the need for background checks on people who want to buy a gun. >> how many cases -- >> you know, it doesn't matter. it's a paper thing. i want to stop 76 -- i want to finish the answer. >> no. >> i want to stop 76,000 people from buying guns illegally. that's what a background check does. if you think we're going to do paperwork prosecutions, you're wrong. >> isn't it really about who has the gun sometimes more than the gun itself? >> reporter: meanwhile, the vice president went before state attorneys general to again push for gun legislation. >> the excuse that it's too politically risky to act is no longer acceptable. >> reporter: with emotions running high on both sides, an assault weapons ban faces an uphill battle. tom costello,
. >> reporter: neil heslin today called for a ban on assault weapons.motions ran high all day. >> it's time for congress to pick a side. this time i hope it's law enforcement's. >> reporter: the milwaukee police chief got into it with republican senator lindsey graham, who today said he owns a so-called assault weapon over the need for background checks on people who want to buy a gun. >> how many cases -- >> you know, it doesn't matter. it's a paper thing. i want...
322
322
Feb 28, 2013
02/13
by
KRON
tv
eye 322
favorite 0
quote 0
(sobbing) >> reporter: neil heslin supports renewing the assault weapons ban that expired in 2004. dianne feinstein there is a common factor in too many of the mass killings. >> "the gunman used a military style semiautomatic assault weapon, or a large capacity ammunition magazine, to commit unspeakable terror." >> reporter: feinstein's bill is threatened by opposition democrats from conservative districts. republican senator lindsey graham questioned focusing on gun control instead of >> "in the real world we do absolutely nothing to enforce the law on the books." >> reporter: in an heated exchange, milwaukee's police chief took issue with graham. >> "i want to stop 76,000 people from buying background check does. if you think we're going do paperwork prosecutions, >> "the public mood has changed." >> reporter: vice president biden spoke national association of attorneys general. on the same day school safety experts testified in the house about how best to react to a crisis. and back in the senate-- victims of gun violence stood before lawmakers. it's a lot of talk about the issu
(sobbing) >> reporter: neil heslin supports renewing the assault weapons ban that expired in 2004. dianne feinstein there is a common factor in too many of the mass killings. >> "the gunman used a military style semiautomatic assault weapon, or a large capacity ammunition magazine, to commit unspeakable terror." >> reporter: feinstein's bill is threatened by opposition democrats from conservative districts. republican senator lindsey graham questioned focusing on gun...
219
219
Feb 28, 2013
02/13
by
KPIX
tv
eye 219
favorite 0
quote 0
. >> reporter: neil heslin clutched a framed photo of his son as he tried to put words to his sense of loss. >> and jesse was the love of my life. he was the only family i have left. >> reporter: the audience, filled with newtown families wept, and so did some lawmakers, as heslin begged them to ban the kind of weapon used to kill his son. >> that's a dangerous weapon and anybody that can deny or argue that, isn't being honest. >> reporter: california democrat dianne feinstein, who introduced the bill to ban assault weapons, showed footage of what she objects to. >> and that is legal today. >> reporter: newtown doctor william begg described the carnage he saw. >> when a child has 3-11 bullets in them and it's an assault-type bullet that explodes inside the body, it doesn't go through a straight line. it goes in and then it opens up, that's not a survivable injury. >> reporter: but republicans argued an assault weapons ban would trample on the second amendment. ted cruz of texas. >> and we should not target our efforts to needlessly restricting the constitutional liberties of law-abidin
. >> reporter: neil heslin clutched a framed photo of his son as he tried to put words to his sense of loss. >> and jesse was the love of my life. he was the only family i have left. >> reporter: the audience, filled with newtown families wept, and so did some lawmakers, as heslin begged them to ban the kind of weapon used to kill his son. >> that's a dangerous weapon and anybody that can deny or argue that, isn't being honest. >> reporter: california democrat...
250
250
Feb 28, 2013
02/13
by
KRON
tv
eye 250
favorite 0
quote 0
." >> reporter: neil heslin supports ban that expired in 2004.prime force behind the new legislation. she says there is a common factor in too many of the mass killings. >> "the gunman used a military style semiautomatic assault weapon, or a large capacity ammunition magazine, to commit unspeakable terror." feinstein's bill is from the nra and some democrats from conservative districts. republican senator lindsey graham questioned focusing on gun control instead of >> "in the real world we do absolutely nothing to enforce the law on the books." in an heated exchange, milwaukee's police chief took issue with graham. >> "i want to stop 76,000 illegally, that's what a you think we're going do paperwork prosecutions, you're wrong." >> "the public mood has changed." vice president biden spoke about the white house's gun policy proposals to the national association of attorneys general. on the same day school safety experts testified in theand back in the senate--victims of gun violence stood before lawmakers. it's a lot of talk about the issue, though
." >> reporter: neil heslin supports ban that expired in 2004.prime force behind the new legislation. she says there is a common factor in too many of the mass killings. >> "the gunman used a military style semiautomatic assault weapon, or a large capacity ammunition magazine, to commit unspeakable terror." feinstein's bill is from the nra and some democrats from conservative districts. republican senator lindsey graham questioned focusing on gun control instead of...
220
220
Feb 1, 2013
02/13
by
FOXNEWSW
tv
eye 220
favorite 0
quote 0
more controversy at abc news, host, host of msnbc, presented a taste by neil heslin to the viewers.st his son in the newtown, connecticut massacres, and wants stricter gun control. >> why anybody in this room needs to have one of these assault style weapons or military weapons. all right. >> please, no comments while mr. heslin is speaking or we'll clear the room. >> bill: a father's grief interrupted by the cries of a heckler. wow, that really sounds bad. problem, it didn't happen that way. here's the full incident involving mr. heslin. >> i ask if there's anybody in this room who can give me one reason or challenge this question, why anybody in this room needs to have one of these assault style weapons or military weapons or high capacity clips? not one person can answer that question. all right. >> please, no comments while mr. hez lynn is speaking, or we'll clear the room. please continue speaking. >> anyway, we're all entitled to our own opinion, and i respect their opinions and their thoughts, but i wish they would respect mine and give it a little bit of thought. >> bill: so
more controversy at abc news, host, host of msnbc, presented a taste by neil heslin to the viewers.st his son in the newtown, connecticut massacres, and wants stricter gun control. >> why anybody in this room needs to have one of these assault style weapons or military weapons. all right. >> please, no comments while mr. heslin is speaking or we'll clear the room. >> bill: a father's grief interrupted by the cries of a heckler. wow, that really sounds bad. problem, it didn't...
143
143
Feb 27, 2013
02/13
by
CURRENT
tv
eye 143
favorite 0
quote 0
here is neil heslin who lost his six-year-old son in the newtown shooting. >> people argue about theond amendment. the second amendment says well regulated militia. bare arms. [ inaudible ] hasn't been well regulated. and it -- it is not being well regulated. >> michael: he is right. it's been 75 days since jesse and his classmates were murdered. in that time at least 2,329 americans have died in gun violence. vice president biden echoed that sent meant today. here is his take. >> the excuse that it's too politically risky to act is no longer acceptable. we cannot remain silent. we have to become the voices of those 20 beautiful children. >> michael: now that's washington, but outside of the beltway a different geography means a different debate. take, for example, cherokee county, north carolina, the editor of the county's local paper resigned yesterday after receiving death threats. his great offense was submitting a public records request to the county sheriff to find out which residents have carry permits. the sheriff posted the letter on facebook, and said his office will quote
here is neil heslin who lost his six-year-old son in the newtown shooting. >> people argue about theond amendment. the second amendment says well regulated militia. bare arms. [ inaudible ] hasn't been well regulated. and it -- it is not being well regulated. >> michael: he is right. it's been 75 days since jesse and his classmates were murdered. in that time at least 2,329 americans have died in gun violence. vice president biden echoed that sent meant today. here is his take....
194
194
Feb 28, 2013
02/13
by
CNNW
tv
eye 194
favorite 0
quote 0
. >> with no agreement over policy, i want to turn back to the personal and neil heslin who joins us tonight. mr. heslin, you spoke incredibly moving today about the last moments with your son. as you think back to that terrible day, what memory sticks with you the most? >> most touching is probably when he was getting out of the truck with me and i was unhooking his seat belt. he gave me a hug and embraced me and was patting me on the back and holding me. >> why is it important for you and so important for you to have been in washington today to testify, to speak not only about gun control but about your son? >> well, i just feel that it's something i have to do. i feel i'm jesse's voice, and i feel there's got to be changes made. and not just one change, but several changes to be effective. >> you talked today about changes in mental health laws and background checks and gun control legislation and high-capacity magazines. is there one, or to you is it you want all of these things to be acted upon? >> i think any change is going to help, but i think for it to be a significant chang
. >> with no agreement over policy, i want to turn back to the personal and neil heslin who joins us tonight. mr. heslin, you spoke incredibly moving today about the last moments with your son. as you think back to that terrible day, what memory sticks with you the most? >> most touching is probably when he was getting out of the truck with me and i was unhooking his seat belt. he gave me a hug and embraced me and was patting me on the back and holding me. >> why is it...
226
226
Feb 3, 2013
02/13
by
CNNW
tv
eye 226
favorite 0
quote 0
. >> so, what neil heslin said, can anybody give me one reason or challenge this question and some people did. >> invited people to speak up. i think what you just played. it was clearly deceptively edited and i can tell you, on my show "real news" at the blaze, i want to get that in there. i can understand the full context of any sound that we share. it was not given to him as a piece of tape that he presented to his audience. >> the problem for me, yes, it was a distortion. a really bad job of editing. it changed the content of the clip. by the editing. but msnbc had still not addressed. they said they were reviewing it and going to go back and look at it but, in fact, other than running a longer version the next day, they have not really addressed the fact of the distortion. >> just to clear. just to clarify, that's what happened on martin bashir's show. the anchor said, we'll play the full clip and make up their own mind. no hint of any misstep or apology or explanation, really. >> i think there are two issues here. one is the condensing of the clip. i think people who saw the condens
. >> so, what neil heslin said, can anybody give me one reason or challenge this question and some people did. >> invited people to speak up. i think what you just played. it was clearly deceptively edited and i can tell you, on my show "real news" at the blaze, i want to get that in there. i can understand the full context of any sound that we share. it was not given to him as a piece of tape that he presented to his audience. >> the problem for me, yes, it was a...
229
229
Feb 27, 2013
02/13
by
CNNW
tv
eye 229
favorite 0
quote 0
joining me is neil heslin. he's in washington to meet with members of congress about the assault weapons ban. this is his friend whose son was killed just days before sandy hook during a home invasion near clemson university. welcome to you both. i just want to say from the outset that you were friends from high school in connecticut. you've known each other a very long time. joined in this awful way by the death of your children. neil, let me start with you. tomorrow's a big day for the assault weapons ban, for the ban that's trying to go through on high capacity magazines and so on. where do you feel this debate is now in america? >> i don't know on that. i still believe that there has to be a ban in place for assault rifles and the high capacity magazines. >> steven, you've also lost a child, as i said, to gun violence. this is a debate that is raging all over america. it's extremely emotive. i can't think of two more appropriate people to be talking about this publicly than you and neil. what do you hope to
joining me is neil heslin. he's in washington to meet with members of congress about the assault weapons ban. this is his friend whose son was killed just days before sandy hook during a home invasion near clemson university. welcome to you both. i just want to say from the outset that you were friends from high school in connecticut. you've known each other a very long time. joined in this awful way by the death of your children. neil, let me start with you. tomorrow's a big day for the...
176
176
Feb 28, 2013
02/13
by
MSNBCW
tv
eye 176
favorite 0
quote 0
neil heslin says he supports the second amendment, but says the time has come for an assault weaponsan. >> and jesse was the love of my life. he was the only family i have left. it's hard for me to be here today to talk about my deceased son. but i have to. i'm his voice. i'm not here for the sympathy and a pat on the back. as many people stated in the town of newtown. i'm here to speak up for my son. >> meanwhile, milwaukee, wisconsin,'s police chief edward flynn called out senator lindsey graham for parroting nra talking points regarding background checks. senator graham, who says he owns an ar-15 also says existing laws should be enforced. but flynn pointed out that he and other law enforcement officers aren't interested in paper chases. they're focused on preventing people from getting guns illegally. >> just for the record, for my point of view, senator, the purpose of the background check -- >> how many cases have you made? >> it doesn't matter. it's a paper thing. i want to stop 76 -- i want to finish the answer. >> no -- >> i want to stop 76,000 people from buying guns illega
neil heslin says he supports the second amendment, but says the time has come for an assault weaponsan. >> and jesse was the love of my life. he was the only family i have left. it's hard for me to be here today to talk about my deceased son. but i have to. i'm his voice. i'm not here for the sympathy and a pat on the back. as many people stated in the town of newtown. i'm here to speak up for my son. >> meanwhile, milwaukee, wisconsin,'s police chief edward flynn called out senator...
153
153
Feb 28, 2013
02/13
by
MSNBCW
tv
eye 153
favorite 0
quote 0
. >> that was neil heslin, father of jesse lewis, one of the 22 children massacred last month in newtownor the high capacity weapons to be banned. also, the doctor was there that responded to the newtown shooting. >> people say that the overall number of assault weapon deaths is relatively small. but you know what, please don't say that to people in newtown, columbine, or virginia tech, this is a tipping point. >> seems to be a tipping point for the public, too. a new wall street journal poll says that people favor stricter gun sale laws, up from 5% just last month. it is people shifting the calculus of who is going to give you money, your opponent money, and what re-election will look like depending on the position you take. yesterday we got a first post-newtown image on what it looked like. robin kelly won 52% of the vote. she had a little help from new york city's michael bloomberg, in charge of the pro-gun attack. former congresswoman debbie halvorson was beaten by her. >> you sent a message by the state and across the nation. a message that tells the nra that their days of holding o
. >> that was neil heslin, father of jesse lewis, one of the 22 children massacred last month in newtownor the high capacity weapons to be banned. also, the doctor was there that responded to the newtown shooting. >> people say that the overall number of assault weapon deaths is relatively small. but you know what, please don't say that to people in newtown, columbine, or virginia tech, this is a tipping point. >> seems to be a tipping point for the public, too. a new wall...
185
185
Feb 28, 2013
02/13
by
KRCB
tv
eye 185
favorite 0
quote 0
reporter: the emotions swirling around the gun issue were vividly on display at a senateearing, as neil heslin described the killing of his six-year-old son in newtown, connecticut. he was one of the 20 children slain that day. >> it's hard for me to be here today talking about my deceased son. i have to. i'm his voice. i'm not here for the sympathy, a pat on the back. i'm here to speak up for my son. >> reporter: to that end, heslin joined those speaking up for a bill to outlaw some assault- style weapons and high-capacity munition magazines. it was offered by california democratic senator dianne feinstein, who said today the need for a ban has never been greater. >> since 1982 there have been at least 62 mass shootings across the united states. and they have been accelerating in recent years. 25 of these shootings have occurred since 2006. and seven took place in 2012. >> reporter: feinstein says her bill would outlaw 157 semi- automat rifles,s well as magazines that hold more than ten bullets. similar weapons-- already purchased legally-- would be grandfathered in. a similar ban passed in 1
reporter: the emotions swirling around the gun issue were vividly on display at a senateearing, as neil heslin described the killing of his six-year-old son in newtown, connecticut. he was one of the 20 children slain that day. >> it's hard for me to be here today talking about my deceased son. i have to. i'm his voice. i'm not here for the sympathy, a pat on the back. i'm here to speak up for my son. >> reporter: to that end, heslin joined those speaking up for a bill to outlaw...
287
287
Feb 28, 2013
02/13
by
CNNW
tv
eye 287
favorite 0
quote 0
. >>> emotional testimony from neil heslin brought his plea to an assault weapons ban to a hearing heldin. he said he was there on behalf of his late son. >> he was the love of my life. it's hard for me to be here today. to talk about my deceased son. i have to. i'm his voice. >> despite wednesday's emotional healing -- hearing, a new assault weapons bans a little chance of passing due to strong opposition, you have the opposition from the national rifle association and congressional republicans and some democrats as well. >>> an army private that gave classified information to wikileaks is in court to explain why he did it, bradley manning said he wanted to spark a debate on the military and our foreign policy in general. this will only be the second time he testified in open court since his arrest. among the charges aiding the enemy. manning could face a life sentence. >>> schools in north anover, massachusetts, are doing their part to raise obesity questions, have gone to new lengths, they sent a letter. >> no one wants to get a letter being told they're obese, that's a very strong,
. >>> emotional testimony from neil heslin brought his plea to an assault weapons ban to a hearing heldin. he said he was there on behalf of his late son. >> he was the love of my life. it's hard for me to be here today. to talk about my deceased son. i have to. i'm his voice. >> despite wednesday's emotional healing -- hearing, a new assault weapons bans a little chance of passing due to strong opposition, you have the opposition from the national rifle association and...