i'm joined now by former acting solicitor-general neil katyal. first of all, great to see you in person. new york city is where all the action is legally speaking. first of all, meaningful sanctions, what does that mean? >> it could mean if anything if there's a gag order imposed and it's violated, it's putting someone in jail. the gag order is hard to get in a case. i don't think i've ever seen it -- >> really? >> because people use common sense. it's kind of like failing kindergarten. to get a gag order imposed you've got to kind of try. manage to work at it and succeed. but it took a lot of work on his part, and now i think the judge is basically saying you attack a member of my staff and there will be serious sanctions. >> well, and yet as hard as it is to get the gag order, i think it's the broad expectation that trump is inevitably going to violate it in some fashion or slander some other person involved in the case whether it's the prosecution or judge itself. so would your expectation be this is going to be the punitive ladder up in terms

neil katyal and anna bowers will join me next to talk about the implications of this potentially seismicevelopment. stay with us. seismic development. stay with us >>> do you understand the state is asking that you truthfully testify at all hearings and proceedings in trials involving the codefendants in this matter and that you have no communication with codefendants, media, or witnesses until this case has been completely closed against all defendants? >> i do. >> that was donald trump's former lawyer sidney powell in court today pleading guilty to six misdemeanor counts just days before what was supposed to be the start of her criminal trial for election interference in fulton county, georgia. as you just heard one of the conditions of this plea is that she truthfully testify at all hearings, proceedings, and trials against the 17 other codefendants in this case. that, of course, includes donald trump. joining me now are anna bower, legal fellow and correspondent for law fair, and neil katyal, former acting solicitor-general. anna, let me ask you first given the sort of time line here

that's what we wanted to ask our friend neil katyal. neil, katyal, you've been standing by for us.inly going to happen. and that picture you just showed, nicolle, of the trump sons and ivanka and trump all testifying islly quite striking. i mean youno the old saying families who commit fraud together end up inourt toge and that sure looks like what is going to happen. ivanka is going to try and appeal this as istand it. her claim is that she's outside the jurisdiction of the state of new york and so new york has no sovereignty over her. that is weak claim at best as the judge today found she's totally intertwined with the trump organization. she's happy to take the profits from the trump organization when they sell a hotel. she's happy to take lawyers fees from the trump organization. she's happy to have the trump organization buy her insurance including her worker's comp insurance, so the idea she has nothing to do with the trump organization which is based in new york is i think pretty fanciful. to me i look at this as just another example of the trump m.o., which is it's not jus

i am joined now by former acting solicitor general, neal katyal. neileat to see you. new york city is where all the action is legally speaking haven't you heard. first of all, meaningful sanctions. what does that practically mean? >> well, it could mean, in an ordinary thing, if there's a gag order imposed, and it's violated, it means putting someone in jail. a gag order, alex, is really hard to get in a case. i don't think i've ever seen it in any of my thousand plus cases. >> really? >> yeah. , people know, the use common sense. it's kind of like failing kindergarten. to get a gag order imposed, you have to try. trump managed to work at it and do it. and succeed. but it took a lot of work on his part. now, i think the judge is basically saying, you attack a member of my staff, there will be serious sanctions. including even up to jail. >> well, and yet, as hard as it is to get the gag order, i think it's the broad expectation that trump is inevitably going to violate it in some fashion, or slander some other person involved in this case, whether it's

. >> neil katyal, andrew weissmann, thank you both, as always.k forward to having you back. and up next, my conversation with senator raphael warnock about these challenging times we find ourselves in. weiss says it's important that american stand up in this moment. moment. this is spring semester at fairfield-suisun unified. they switched to google tools for education because there's never been a reported ransomware attack on a chromebook. now they're focused on learning knowing that their data is secure. ( ♪♪ ) listen, your deodorant just has to work. i use secret aluminum free. just swipe and it lasts all day. secret helps eliminate odor, instead of just masking it. and hours later, i still smell fresh. secret works! ohhh yesss. ♪♪ choosing a treatment for your chronic migraine - 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more - can be overwhelming. so, ask your doctor about botox®. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they even start. it's the #1 prescribed branded chronic migraine treatment. so far,

. >> now we'll have more on trump's defense later in the hour, but first, joining me now is neil katyal former actor solicitor general, mia wiley, former civil attorney and now ceo of the leadership conference on civil and human rights and lisa rubin, msnbc legal analyst who was inside the courtroom today. lisa, i'll start with you. kind of set the table for us. what was the atmosphere like inside of the courtroom especially with donald trump being present? >> you know, katie, it was different from other proceedings i've been to where donald trump has been present and noticeably different from the florida arraignment that i attended when trump was indicted on the classified documents related charges. that proceeding was solemn. it was sober. it was silent. you could hear a pin drop before it started. this one, by comparison, even though it doesn't involve criminal charges, this might as well be trump's most important indictment as far as he is concerned because he was belligerent. he was crossing his arms and shaking his head, at times even physically prodding chris kise to get up and a

joining me now neal katyal, former acting solicitor general the united states and msnbc legal analyst. neilk you very much for coming to the saturday show. again your reaction to chesbrough's plea deal? >> i mean the whole events jonathan, it shows us just how good fani willis's. but the whole country, she was built to us as a master of rico, a master of conspiracy law. she is really showing it here with these two please. she's basically saying, look i have my eyes on the bigger prize, it is the conviction of the man who orchestrated all of this. not just the people who worked for him. and you know, to me what is most significant about both of these deals is that they are jailed deals. no jail deal. one sydney powell pled guilty to mr. meters. she has brought to a felony, neither of them are serving to. their only reason you would ever agree to that is the prosecutor, as if they're providing evidence against higher ups. so here, i suspect this is incredibly bad news for donald trump. not news jonathan, he can, spin by saying oh this is a bunch of left wing radicals, or whatever. these are h

katyal, the former acting u.s. solicitor general. if you're weisman is the former general counsel at the fbi and a senior member of special counsel robert mueller's team. okay, neil here. i just wanna start with a gag order. because i think we are all waiting to see what happens here. jack smith has asked for it to be reinstated, judge chutkan to reinstate the partial gag order, when we expect this to happen, and do expect that to happen? >> so it has been a cray cray week in donald trump legal's developments here. >> that's a legal term, they're cray cray? >> that is the technical legal term. look. there are two different gag orders. one, trump has already violated, the one in new york state, in which he has been now find twice. and then there's a swarm that you're talking about the federal level with jack smith. and that one has been put on pause. i think donald trump has made the best case of anyone. he is witnessing for why you need the gag order in effect. because the moment that gag order was put on pause, he started developing and attacking people left and right. so i think that there is no doubt in my mind that there will be a gag order imposed on donald