mick mulvaney, john kelly steps down, mick mulvaney moves over to that one now there's a vacancy in omb. a a lot of times it's sort of like whack a mole. you have chosen one person but then you have created another vacancy within your 18 by moving that person over and you are also causing disruption and disruption etc. so i also think another reason why the turnover rates are higher is that turnover begets more turnover. that it creates a sense of chaos it creates a lot of anxiety and stress when people are publicly fired. and i think people are concerned about their jobs. i think with the mueller investigation there's probably some angst and concern about whether they need to hire their own attorneys, which can be very costly. and i just think you know if you're somebody who had a passion for maybe healthcare policy or energy policy, if you're working in an environment where you never know from day-to-day who is going to be around, if there also simultaneously investigations about leaks that are causing people to feel very

this is the job of omb. they are supposed to plan for things like this.n top of the federal workers not getting paid, there are millions of other people who rely on programs provided by these nine agencies affected. joining me, msnbc national security analyst frank figliuzzi, former fbi assistant director, along with yamiche and aaron blake. so we do know that one of thesis agencies is the department of homeland security. and there is now a very serious warning coming out from these five former secretaries, including john kelly who was chief of staff at the white house when this shutdown started saying dhs employees who protect the traveling public investigate counterterrorism and protect infrastruct sure not have to rely on the generosity of others for assistance. this is unconscionable. is this shutdown a threat to national security? >> yeah, when you see the top former senior leaders of homeland security across the political spectrum from all administrations saying the same thing, you need to pay attention. there's no question that this shutdown is pos

the honorable mick mulvaney is the current director of the office of management and budget, omb, a key position in the trump administration. prior to his time as director for omb he served the people of the 5th district of south carolina as their congressman. he has been a friend and advocate for middle eastern christians for years and meeting with the maronite patriarch in 2014. meeting the syria orthodox patriarch in 2015 and working with members of congress to pass resolutions to recognize the genocide christians in iraq and syria. [applaus [applause] >> mick and his wife pam are the proud parents of triplets, james, caroline and finnigan and also garrett and harper. please give a warm welcome to mick mulvaney. [applause] >> thank you very much. people always ask me about the dogs named beggwynn nis and harr and that's what i do for fun. your excellencies, colleagues from the house of representatives, and more importantly, many of my friends. thank you for inviting me and beginning this evening. i will begin by saying this, i wasn't supposed to be here today. we had been asked by th

his grandson worked for at omb and i called him after the announcement. i said do you have any advice? and he said, yeah, just remember you're the chief of the staff, not the chief of the president. you are not going to change the president of the united states. none of us ever were able to do that, nor do we want to do that. the question is how do you make the staff make the president successful? that's a challenge, but it's one of those fun challenges that you look forward to in your career. it's been a great couple weeks on the job and i'm looking forward to it. >> you mentioned that you and the president have had some disagreements when it comes to the budget. >> sure. >> the national debt is obviously now $2 trillion higher than it was when president trump took office. you were a deficit hawk. this was one of former speaker paul ryan's biggest frustrations with president trump is that he doesn't show any political will or interest in doing anything that would reduce the deficit or the national debt, other than growing the economy. is this an area whe

the omb director, the president himself, and then he said this week he was going to support the bill and that's important. now we have the executive in fact i was with him in a meeting he said he's 100% supportive of this bill, by producing more democrats than republicans on the right now. so, what we did to try to move this quickly as we celebrate the president is going to sign it, bipartisan bill, let's move it. what does that mean they will try to move it real fast. so that started today and by noon every republican member of the senate said good to go to the men and women of the coast guard. i had the opportunity to talk to the local public radio programming of the largest coast guard stations in the country. we moved a lot of coast guard democrats, republicans, president of the united states and bingo, republicans have said we are good to go on it and i started working with some of my democratic colleagues were also optimistic. .. . >> we are running the hotline so maybe it's just a rumor. i hope it's a rumor. y-letter? why would we block that? come on my colleagues on the other

when we wrote the story, omb said to us all the decisions are on hold. we're not going to cut $839 million mostly out of medicare. we haven't decided yet because the government is still shut down. these cuts were required to be made. that is another thing to watch. see if they do something to avert what would be breaking a core promise of the president. story,ow tweeting your negotiators returned to the table wednesday. what are you looking for as these negotiations continue? kellie: me and my colleague were on the house and senate sides. more action on the senate in terms of lawmakers talking about what it looks like they are going to be doing. they are having lunch on wednesday with president trump and vice president pence. i'm going to be looking for defectors in the house. they had a meeting with the vice president on tuesday to discuss the messaging plan against house democrats movement of these bills. the white house and republicans overall are trying to stay as a coalition against these spending bills, but democrats are countering that there are g

president clinton: well, i have worked with our people, obviously, at omb to explore every conceivable option to bring them back. and i will continue to do that. i have done everything that i have been told i can legally do. and we are exploring some other options. as other options come up, i will do whatever i can. i think this is very wrong. but they also deserve to be paid. and the american people need to know that those who are not working are not out there idle of their own choice. they want to be here, they want to be working, and we ought to give them a chance to do it. >> you are watching american history tv only on c-span3. >> we will visit the santa

these numbers i got from omb, which is the hub that handles regulatory issues. total over the past two fiscal years is $33 billion. over the past 21 months. if one looks at the ratio, it wildly exceeds 2-1. so it's about a 12-1 ratio, if one wants to split hairs and saying i'm including minor rulings and that sort of thing as we only look at major, major rulings, it's a 4-1 ratio, let's compare that to where we were in the first couple of years of president obama, a little different approach, the first 21 months. they added about $245 billion worth of regulatory costs. a different approach there than the past two years. the future seems to be more of the same. agencies are projecting eliminating another 18 billion dollars. this does not include fuel standards, which there may be some changes in fuel standards which could end up being 120 to $340 billion in savings. health care, there's been some particular changes. i feel the need to have a health care specific paragraph here. hhs eliminating provider burdens for skilled nursing facilities, inpatient hospitals,

the honorable mick mulvaney is the current director of the office of management and budget, omb, a key position in the trump administration. prior to his time as the director of omb, he served the people of the fifth district of south carolina as the congressman where he was first elected in 2010. director mulvaney has been a friend and advocate for middle eastern christians for years. meeting with the mennonite patriarch in 2014, meeting the syria orthodox patriarch in 2015, and working with them to pass the resolution to recognize the genocide in libya and syria. [applause] >> mick and his wife pam are the proud parents of triplets, james, caroline and finnegan, and two great danes guinness and harper. ladies and gentlemen, please give a warm welcome to mr. mick mulvaney. [applause] >> thank you very much. people always ask me about the dogs named guinness and harper and ask me what i do for fun. i want to thank mr. hage for the introduction. i want to thank you for inviting me. thank you to all the religious leaders and excellence that are here. thank you for inviting me and giving

i'm putting back the old omb hat on. but if you're right, if we don't have an agreement by midnight on the 8th which is tuesday, then payroll will not go out as originally planned. >> and we're talking now a month. a month for people without a paycheck. >> congress is not even coming back until tuesday. nancy pelosi is not coming back -- >> and i'm going to ask two other members where their sense of urgency is. at the end of the day, why hold this part of the government hostage for a political fight? >> you can ask that of both sides. if i was sitting here talking to nancy pelosi, why are you holding border security -- holding all of the 800,000 workers -- >> she might then say, do elections have any consequences? i ask this. in 2018, the president in the last month of the campaign tried to make immigration the issue. voters responded how? by handing democrats 40 house seats. if you look across border states, there is one new democratic seat in arizona. almost the upset of the century in texas. more house members. if you

now, when we wrote this story, omb said to us, hey, hold on. all of the decisions are on hold. we're not going to cut $839 million, mostly on medicare. the government is still shut down. the fact remains, this is in law that these cuts were required to be made. so that's another thing to watch to see how congress addresses and whether they do something to avert what would be breaking core campaign promise of the president, not to cut medicare. >> and on this 19th day of the government shutdown, cq now tweeting your story, negotiators return to the table wednesday on shutdown. quickly, what are you looking for as these negotiations continue? >> yeah, so me and my colleague, jennifer, we're both splitting up on the house and senate sides. more action on the senate in terms of lawmakers at least talking a little bit more about what it looks like they're going to be doing. you know, they're having lunch on wednesday -- today with president donald trump and vice president mike pence. i'm going to be looking for defectors in the house, i think, today. they had a meeting with the vice

secretary of homeland security, and we continue to press this issue all week, omb director, chief of staff of the white house, the president himself, and then he said this week he was going to support the bill. that's important. now you are the executive branch, the president of the united states, he will sign it. he said it. he said he is 100% supportive of this bill. bipartisan, more democrats than republicans on the bill right now. so we did, try to move this quickly is that we said all that, president is going to sign it, bipartisan bill, let's move it. we moved to hotline it. what does that mean? it tries trying to get this bie moved through unanimous consent through the senate, a hotline means will try to move it real fast everybody is going to vote on it. so that started today, and by noon every republican member of the u.s. senate said good to go, clear, let's say the minimum of the coast guard. i had the opportunity to talk to local public radio program in kodiak, what is the largest coast guard stations in the country, actually it is the largest in the country, and i the op

. >>> still ahead on show, former omb director and governor mitch daniels will be here to weigh in on government shutdown and potential impact it's having on the u.s. economy. >>> after the break, twitter may be gaining ground with a key zem graphic. details on the stock coming up people know aflac... aflac! ...but not what they do. so we're answering their questions. aflac is auto insurance, right? no. uh uh. is it homeowner's insurance? no... uhuhuhuh! is it duck insurance? nope. ahhh! do they pay me money directly when i get sick or injured? yeah. aflac! you got it. you know aflac! boom! get help with expenses health insurance doesn't cover. get to know us at... aflac dot com. >>> welcome to "the closing bell." gains across the board with the dow up individual movers today. up first, l brands, falling after holiday sales below expectations in particular, sales of victoria's secret were weak. that stock down almost 5%. it's already dragged in with some of the other retail weakness on the back of macy's but a serial underperform among retail and the problem child has been victoria's

trance s, after that is staff changes and it doesn't include staff on omb and sc. to me it's not comprehensive as it should be. struggle inted out, i to come up with people asking me how many people work for the president? know.'t an accurate figure. ant transparency and we should do whatever we can. diverse ti i'm not is much of an office within it. i'm in the sure there are diversity. achieve llow dents have ryed to fo suit and something interesting is that as i cold you perfect, of staff doesn't start with fdr. o congress has been hands off about the staff. moves gress finds it and on. >> two questions for you. is m response who noticed the president hired and fired. second question is what do like?hink this will look urnout.t he has a lot of supporters s like 35trong so had i to 38% that referring to president trump has one of the ratings of approval prior presidents. and that is because he has a no k of supporters that matter what happens, they're ick and thin.ugh th maybe there are people on the who's say people care about this and understand and tance of sta

to share with omb an ongoing list of programs that could be impacted within the coming weeks. according to "the washington post," chief of staff mulvaney pressed leaders for a list of high impact programs that would be jeopardized if the shutdown continues well into march, possibly even april. people familiar with the directive said they want the list no later than friday and it's the firmest evidence to date that the white house is preparing for a lengthy funding lapse that could have snowballing consequences for the economy and government services. meanwhile, chief white house economist said there could be zero growth in the first quarter if the shutdown continues that long. >> could we get zero? i want to nail this down. >> we could. >> wow, all right. >> if extended for the whole quarter and given the fact the first quarter tends to be low, you could have a number close to zero. >> it's unclear what house democrats will do next after michael cohen postponed his appearance before the oversight committee. ongoing threats against his family from the president and rudy giulian

of course he has that other job as omb director as well. as of last week a person close to mr.ulvaney said he's still interested in the presidency of his home state university which will become open this summer. the white house is, of course, pushing back. mick mulvaney is faithfully executing the job the president asked him to do. as such he's not interested in any other positions. are you sure about that, hogan? >> i'm the acting chief of staff. i'm retaining my formal position of office of management and budget for now. 100% of my time -- >> what does for now mean? for now, there's a chance you do vacant the position? >> it's a good question. no one asked me about that before, how the president and i talked about doing this. we just decided to try it. i think the president had some ideas about how to run the position that was different than john kelly, a little different than reince priebus. he said let's try that, give it a shot for a while. i said, that's great. if you don't like it, you've always liked omb, i can always go back to that. >> 90 day trial, 180. >> we didn't

i'm today that the omb director made clear that tax refunds would continue to go out. food stamps would not be affected, which was a big question given the contingency fund that might fall short in february. the effort right now you see from the administration is one that republican leaders on capitol hill i'm told made clear had to happen. republicans, particularly in the house, felt like there was a vacuum in terms of information, in terms of what the strategy was, where the administration was going. you are seeing the administration respond in a big way. there's the briefing tonight. jim alluded to tomorrow. president trump and vice-president pence will meet with senate republicans. then after that, there will be the third in two weeks meeting between the top eight bipartisan congressional leaders. it's clear at this point in time, the bigger concern of the administration is not necessarily striking a deal with the democrats. it's making sure republicans are both in line and comfortable with the president's position before the speech and after the speech tomorrow. t

the omb order, the mit order i feel best represents nixon's representatives, and shows a connection to the president. the final section of the book focuses on elliott richardson who is most famous for his decision to resign in protest during the saturday night massacre. elliott richardson is almost a stereotypeical cartoonsh establishment figure. from a bygone era. if anyone has seen a video of him talk or remember him he would seem like an alien to anyone in 2018. but that was part of the moderate wing of the republican party. there were moderates and liberals back then. richardson really represented that liberal establishment which had a home, at least in part of the republican party in the early 1970s. during the nixon administration elliott richardson before he was appointed to be attorney general in 173 he served as undersecretary of state where he defended nixon's decision to invade cambodia. some of his advisers resigned but he decided even though he had his own private concerns, he decided to defend the president. he then became the head of hew, health education and welfare. an

sometimes, after that is trance hitted there is staff changes and it doesn't include staff on omb and sc. so to me it's not comprehensive as it should be. so as i pointed out, i struggle to come up with people asking me how many people work for the president? i don't know. i don't have an accurate figure. it's important transparency and we should do whatever we can. and issue of diverse ti i'm not sure there is much of an office within it. i'm in the sure there are efforts to achieve diversity. presidents have ryed to follow suit and something interesting is that as i cold you perfect, this issue of staff doesn't start with fdr. so congress has been hands off about the staff. and congress finds it and moves on. >> two questions for you. first one is m response who noticed the president hired and fired. and second question is what do you think this will look like? >> about voter turnout. he has a lot of supporters staying strong so had is like 35 to 38% that referring to president trump has one of the most stable approval ratings of prior presidents. and that is because he has a block

omb plans for what happens if it stays closed even longer. that is not unusual to see those contingencies. if they weren't happening, you would probably see a uproar that they weren't getting ready. it is an indication that the white house is seriously looking at this shut down and saying okay, this could last for weeks at this point and they're asking for agencies for lists of how they will be impacted if it does stretch on for weeks. that is a sign of the planning process. mick mulvaney is the de facto chief, and that is sort of what this state of play is behind the doors and behind me here at the west wing. >> osks they're having trouble getting their messaging straight to say the least on this. there is several officials who have come out in front of cameras an really given an indication that they have no idea of what the federal workers are going through. does the white house view that has a problem or are they okay with it? >> i think you could see a clean up on aisle tone deaf. they have come out and said things that struck people as r

omb's been working on this for months now, and there's a lot more than $5.7 billion.s still better to get it through legislation, that's the right way to do it. but at the end of the day, the president is going to secure the border one way or another. john: so if president says, mick, should i declare an emergency, would you recommend he would do that? it would certainly almost immediately be enjoined by the courts, and that could be playing his last card. >> we're just as aware of all of those contingencies you just laid out as even else is, so if there's ways to try and mitigate those risks, we certainly will. some pots of money are easier to get to, so again, this is not something we're shooting on from the hip. we've been working on this for months. we have been hoping for months to do it by legislation with the democrats, but at the end of the day, the president will do it either with or without congress. scrop john for the $5.7 billion, you want to build about 170 miles of border wall through texas. one thing i find curious that nobody's talking about here is th

it also just includes the personal white house staff it doesn't include staff on the omb and the very important parts of the executive office of the president. so for me ouis not comprehensiv so as i pointed out, i struggle to come up with people ask me sometimes will how many people work for the president? i don't know. i think it's grown tremendously since eisenhower i would say and most since eisenhower, ever since nixon became more of a pr person that's been beefed up but i don't have an accurate figure i think that something we need to work toward. i'm actually, occasionally work with the partnership for public service and we really need to rainstorm to see how we can either foia disinformation or create some sort of information or website that has a list of white house staffers, how much they're getting paid, how long they stayed in their jobs. i think it's important transparency in our government is really important so we should do whatever we can to promote that. on the issue of diversity are not sure that the white house has much of a, i guess you would:hr, human resources of

and one of the things i've learned at omb is we can do that effectively.ou folks ran a story a few weeks ago about how the doecoas guard was not going to get paid. the president wanted to do everything within his power legally to make sure those folks got paid and we were able to do that. move money around legally. and presidents have the ability to do that. this president has the ability to do that as well in other areas and we'll explore opportunities to do that. i don't think that excuses president obama on what he did on daca years ago. >> presidents have the authority to defend the nation. the president has asked every single cabinet secretary and the office of management and budget to go out and find money that can be used, legally, to guard the southern border, which is exactly what we're going to do. >> so you'd support it if he wanted to do it? >> i'm heavily involved with it and have been working with all the cabinet secretaries to try and find money we can legally use to defend the southern border. >> the president said on friday that mexico is

as omb continues to manage this partial lapse in appropriations, unfunded agencies are being asked to continue to share with omb an ongoing list of programs that could be impacted within the coming weeks so the white house, the office of management and budget here confirming that "washington post" report that mick mulvaney has asked agencies to send him a list of all the programs that could be disrupted if this shutdown continues that includes things like the federal court system, the payments of benefits under the department of agriculture to people who are on federal assistance and all the rest of the programs in the vast federal government bureaucracy that might be impacted here, melissa. >> so programs as opposed to agency functions like the s.e.c., for instance >> reporter: sure. and all of that, i think, is what the white house will be concerned about. what does this mean -- for example, there's some discussion about the ipo market and the s.e.c. the white house wants to know, it would seem, what all of the unintended consequences of this government shutdown could be, how all of

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he sent a detailed letter from omb to congress and we had a number of discussions discussing what we are looking for we have not back down or changed our position at all. >> so i as a speech on decembe december 29th? . >> spee nine. >> frankly it is unbecoming of the speaker to make that out accusation it is outrageous she would accuse the president of the united states putting any life in jeopardy in fact, he did not want her to go because he's trying to protect american cities - - - citizens he wants her to stay here to help figure it out . >> downtown is the place to be if you are outfitting for the trail there are several blacksmiths to get horses and outfitting general stores anything to get you out west you would get it here. if you could imagine a big thriving community downtown. justice kavanaugh has recused himself because he heard the case while sitting on the dc circuit court of appeals. this is an hour. your argument next, . >> if it may please the court it did not require cms to go through notice and comment rulemaking before it could furnish its calculation of one compo

and it causes truman to support the development of a hydrogen omb. so the cold war between the soviet union and the united states is really ramping up. and the ramifications of that are both international and domestic. so on the domestic front, there's a real push mostly by republicans but also by democrats to root out communists in the american government. once it was discovered that there were spies that had stolen atomic secrets, then people became very suspicious of other overnment employees. the fear of communism was both domestic and international. over on the side over here, we have a number of posters and booklets, anti-communist booklets. there were movies, anti-communist movies. information about building bomb shelters. and a general fear that the united states was infiltrated by communists. as a result of that, there was a document developed called nsc-68. it was a document that basically called for all-out nti-communist efforts on behalf of the united states government, really ramping up funding for the military, also for espionage and so

omb said are there certain things they could cut off or plan for that aren't necessary, that that got people's attention in washington. maybe that is prudent. you heard me say about other please pieces legislation up here, about brett kavanaugh is being here, it is about the math, it is about the math, its about the math. so far the math between the democratic house and republican senate and the other part of the math something that could earn the president's signature, that is key. some people are wondering if the dam might ever so slightly starting to break because the president said we'll wait until the government is open, then i will give state of the union and i like to do it in the house chamber. but you know so far, they're going to be out of session until next week. that is why we wonder if all these lawmakers going back home, who do you think they interact with when they go home? tstsa agents, people at airport. they get an earful. they might have relationships with these folks. that could be start of moving things. the other issue coming up, the super bowl. i talked to someo

. >> reporter: i should point out vice president, secretary homeland security, acting omb director just completed one hour pen and pad briefing with reports on where we are in terms of the government shutdown and fight over border security. vice president saying day after christmas, the white house made what he called a good faith offer to democrats to say listen, we'll take $2.5 billion for the wall as part of border security package. vice president saying democrats wouldn't entertain the idea and in talks over the weekend, the vice president and secretary of homeland security saying the democrats won't budge on border security until the government is reopened. they are clearly at an impasse which is why the president will take to the national airwaves form -- tomorrow night and address the nation from the oval office. which is the first time he'll do that and make this an urgent issue of national security as he was headed for a retreat camp david yesterday. president laid out the case that a border barrier is a matter of national security >> we're looking at a national emergency becau

is it possible to implement the appropriation without opening up omb. because appropriations go through omb when it comes to an agency like the one that i ran. i think it is very important that we understand that the connection between the appropriations and opening up the government, they are inextricably tied and simply no way these appropriations can be implemented unless we open up the government. many people my district are hurting very badly. they work for the federal government or they work for contractors. i speak for them when i argue that we have to do both of these things in this particular role. thank you. >> thank you very much and i want to think ms. granger. >> this is my good friend, ms. lauer and i'll work together on some important issues, international issues. and we work for good solutions and try to present to our congress the solutions. we are doing that today. we have got a problem. i think everyone in this room hopes that the government will be restarted. hopes that we will redress these disasters. all of that is a reality of wha

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congressional solution which means declare the emergency which will take them into a court fight or ombooking for creative ways to find other pots of money that they can move around. most of it comes down to the pentagon. all of these options are politically and legally challenging. it is no surprise that he is looking to tap into these disaster funds. lots of money appropriated by congress. a lot of it hasn't been spent and trump has already said privately that he wants to stop getting money to puerto rico. it doesn't surprise me that that is where they are heading. >> bret: republicans are pointing to democrats who have spoken a lot about border security. take a listen. >> we have a humanitarian crisis on the border. >> i voted on numerous times when i was a senator to spend money to build a barrier. >> i voted for that. >> i'm deeply opposed to illegal immigration. i call the federal government, the president of the immigration services to stop the influx of illegal immigrants in this country. >> if we don't do it this year, if we don't do it early next year, we may not get to do it

the acting director of the omb saying we will do all we can to make this partial shutdown as painlessyees consistent with the law. there's been some concern whether or not tax refunds would go out and i can say quickly that tax refunds will go out as planned. a sigh of relief for some people. let's bring in our panel. the politics editor here at fox news, the correspondent of national radio, mollie hemingway, senior editor at the federalist. the president will speak from the oval office. the first time you will speak from that venue. whether it is going to be a national emergency call, whether it would be another offer to democrats, we don't know. because this is the best venue the presidents have. take the measure of the man. the first time obama did in oval office address, he looked miniature behind the giant desk as he was talking about the oil pumping out into the gulf of mexico. we also think about moments like ronald reagan he used this for about 5 minutes. there were great. other presidents have done so. trump has an opportunity here to say what he really wants. he could tell t

visitors to the omb website will find a more user friend had i experience. and clear budget data, drill down and find vendor contracts and financial information about state government. check it out. our budget proposal also brings a new level of transparency to how our tax revenues support our day-to-day operations. instead of transferring tax revenues in the last days of the session in the general fund from a labyrinth of sources, we're proposing to the benefit of the people of north dakota, a direct, one billion dollar transfer to support general fund revenues, $1 billion transfer of oil tax revenues. our number one priority to do this was to restore the structural balance in the general fund by bringing ongoing spending in line with ongoing revenues. living within our means. the last two budget cycles we relied on transfer to cover substantial general revenue fund shortfalls. that's like drawing money out of the your savings account to balance your checking account. it works, but not a way for long-term. some people said one billion, not doable. one billi

ambassador, white house chief of staff, interior secretary, omb director, office of management, and budget. does it concern you? >> yes. i'm particularly concerned the acting attorney general, matthew whitaker, is someone who should not be in that position. the president jumped over. rod rosenstein should be the acting attorney general and we ought to promptly be holding hearings on the nominee to be the next attorney general. to have seven important cabinet posts, including secretary of defense, attorney general, filled by positions who haven't been subject to scrutiny by the united states senate is a very concerning development. and suggests that there really is a lack of professionalism and focus at the highest levels of the administration. >> senator coons, thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you, wolf. >>> up next, we have more breaking news. the u.s. ambassador to moscow visits an american detained on accusations of spying. so what's behind the russian move? >>> breaking news this hour. president trump meeting with congressional leaders over at the white house on this, the 12t

we spoke to an omb official who said they are looking at trying to work with pay providers to provide a mid cycle paycheck to federal workers who are not currently receiving the paycheck they were do yesterday. the president has been talking about helping the national guard with getting their paychecks. he's making an attempt now to deal with the consequences that early on he didn't think he would face. i think that's where democrats have an advantage here. >> beyond all of this, is there any conventional wisdom on who is winning the optics of this. you have congress out. no scheduled negotiations throughout the weekend. the president seems to be trying to seize on that calling democrats to come back to the washington in his tweets today. can he ever take control of the narrative given the one he owned saying he would shut the place down in first place. >> i hate to use the terms winning and losing here because at the end of the day, msnbc has been running interviews all morning is there are people out there, goth employees who can't pay their mortgages and put food in the fridges. sp

that those tax refund checks will be going out, trying to tweak around the different procedures at omb. but you're so right, you have to pay attention to the congressional cracks, in particular among republicans republicans for now are mostly holding with president trump's ultimatum about a border wall, but some of the moderate senators who are up for re-election in 2020 are already calling to reopen the government now the eyes of reporters in the country are on house republicans. that's why the president is going to country tonight, pitching americans broadly, but really pitching his own party to hold firm. >> and he has another opportunity to do that at the state of the union, which is, what, the 29th of this month or something like that? >> that's right. it's unusual for president trump to make a succession of these televised national addresses tonight will actually be his first time ever speaking to the country from the oval office >> so let's talk a little bit about the way out, if there is a way out. as i was gaming this over the weekend, i thought the time honored washington plo

stamp payments was distributed that the parks are open even though they don't have full staffing the omb is trying to take the pain out of this shutdown. this is different from the past. >> well, right that's because you take the pain out because the president 069 united states tends to be the locust of blame in any shutdown. that certainly is true in this case and i think that's a reflection of how mindful they are that this is going to be a difficult thing to sustain over the long run. i doubt that jimmy's prediction is going to be where republicans end up i think there's likely to be growing pressure on republican senators who are up in 2020 to try to bring this to a close we've seen some, not a huge number begin to express miss givings, but this is a losing fight for president trump with the exception of maintaining that allegiance from his base. and i think this is where he has a different set of incentives than republicans on the ballot in 2020. i think the president is looking at a situation where his legal jeopardy and his political jeopardy with democrats coming into the majorit

also offset the impact that could have on confidence as well >> this is a strange shutdown because omb has been trying to mitigate the effects we've seen shutdowns that become political theater, whether the obama administration or house republicans trying to say, either we don't need government or here's why we need government so much. this one is stuck in the middle where they're trying to take the sting out of it. this latest claim about jobless claims feeding right into that how can that be -- what is the symbolism even trying to tell us about this dispute >> you're right. typically one of the ways one side gets leverage over the other is making the price go up so you'd have both sides trying to inflict pain on the other but in this case, democrats do not want to be painted at the ones who caused people to miss their paycheck and have to go to the bank to ask for forgiveons their loan and so both sides in some sense have a benefit in trying to stand tough while minimizing those background impacts i'm with dan on this i think that you're still talking about marginal direct impacts. h

he was sort of a one-man omb and funded both louisiana purchase and the 1812.he was both jefferson and madison's secretary of treasury and answered to alexander hamilton.it's his statute that stands in front of the treasure building. onto today's event, it is my pleasure to introduce our speaker today, doctor deirdre mccloskey. she is among the most defenders of classical liberalism and a free economy in the united states today. since the year 2000, doctor deirdre mccloskey has been a distinguished professor of economics, english and communications at the university of illinois in chicago. trained at harvard which we will hold against you, as an economist. she's written 16 books and added seven more and published some 360 articles on economic theory, economic history, philosophy, rhetoric, feminism, ethics and the law has a challenging task of teaching à Ãwell professor of economics at the Ãbthat was my good fortune she was also professor of economics and history at the university of iowa.doctor mccloskey many books are unusually well written. particularly when

obviously still omb director. >> money that has been appropriated in a way that is so general that heay from defense or homeland security. so i wonder if that's the strategy. >> there's opposition to that among republicans. you mentioned mack thornberry. >> right. >> i think he's opposed to that. mark meadows, by the way, the ultra conservative in the house freedom caucus, an ally of president trump, told my colleague that he's skeptical that he's not fond of declaring a national emergency. he thinks it should be a last resort. he still prefers there be a congressional solution at this point. >> i would assume that small government people should be shared -- i mean rand paul and the libertarian wing of the gop, stephanie, national emergency being declared willy-nilly is something that drives big government. >> it creates a very dangerous precedent for what's to come. and i also think that we have to remember that for every taxpayer dollar that the federal government spends, there is a constituency that relies on that dollar. there is not $5 billion worth of money hanging around to put