opm had no authority to do so. further, the va shall cease any and all use of the template termination notice provided by opm and shall immediately advise all probationary employees. terminated february 13th and 14th, that the notice and termination have been found to be unlawful by the u.s. district court for the northern district of california. the va shall cease any termination of probationary employees at the direction of opm. to repeat, this order holds that opm has no authority whatsoever to direct order or require in any way that any agency fire any employee. now, given the arguments and the facts in this case, namely, that defendants have attempted to recast these directives as mere guidance, my order today, quote, further prohibits defendants from giving guidance as to whether any employee should be terminated, any termination of agency's employees must be made by the agencies themselves, if made at all, and they must be made in conformity with the civil service reform act and the reduction in force act an

opm it's supposedly like the hr office for the federal government. seconds of donald trump officially becoming president again, elon musk's doge team were at opm, getting themselves into that agency's computer systems, which contains the personal data of millions of federal employees. they locked everybody else out of that computer system. they installed sofa beds so they could be there all the time. and it sounds like they were just peachy to have. around. three opm officials told the washington post that, quote, morale plummeted as d.o.j. agents clashed with senior career personnel. one official recalled a recent meeting in which a young doge team member began screaming at senior developers and calling them, quote, idiots. elon musk and his friendly band took over opm first, apparently because they wanted to use it for their campaign to fire as much of the federal workforce as they possibly could. opm was the entity that sent mass emails to federal workers, urging them all to quit, essentially threatening them all that they needed to quit. that was

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and as a recently departed opm employee tells me, they say, quote, the federal workers at opm don't even know what's going on, and we are getting blamed for allowing elon musk and doge into opm. it's very well known within the agency that it's the shadow opm, not the career employees pushing the buttons. not only is opm ground zero for elon musk and his vision for the federal government, though, kate, these career employees also tell me it's the testing ground for many of those actions that we are seeing. uh, across the government, they test them first at opm, for example, uh, on inauguration day or the day after, i should say, many of those members of doge asked career employees to do an exercise in which they would cut some 70% of their workforce. and just last week, we now see weeks later, opm sent a memo along with omb, asking agencies to plan for large scale reductions in its workforce. we know that social security administration, for example, announced that they plan on cutting some 7000 jobs. so, again, not only is this agency being run essentially by doge, but it's also the testi

but at opm, they are the ones in charge. >> and the opm or opm for the first time started sending out these emails that everyone in the government practically is saying, including the what did you do last week? email the deferred resignation offer. they're sending these emails from h.r. at opm.gov. but i know you're hearing that career staff at opm, they were actually not aware of the email before it was sent. these are the folks who normally would be aware of an email sent out to to the staff of the federal workforce. >> right. so that is what these sources are telling us, that career h.r. officials, they weren't even aware of these email communications until they heard about it in some cases on the news or heard about it from other employees who had received it. they didn't draft the messages or even have access to this new account that doge set up h.r. at opengov. here's why we care about all of this. this once obscure agency is producing the blueprint for federal agencies to essentially dismantle certain program offices and carry out these mass firings at the direction of people w

, opm is asking for reimbursement for its services to modernize the agency's systems. >> opm, the office of personnel management they're in charge of all the federal workers. >> exactly. and also. >> they've really been ground zero for communicating directly. doj's vision for what the government looks like and instructing federal agencies on just how to slim down the workforce and dismantle certain programs. so this agreement, this draft agreement is between doge and opm, and it's billing them essentially for 20 full time employees at a pay rate that would usually be reserved for government workers who are senior managers. so one of the higher end of the pay scale. and when you do the math for the length of time of this agreement from january 2025 to july of 2026, it could be that this bill could be north of $4 million. we reached out to opm on this. they said that they were not willing to comment. but really, jake, up until now, it has been really unclear how will this idea of doge be paid for? like where is the funding coming from? and so we don'know if doge is asking for funds from ot

now, after almost two hours of arguments, judge william alsup ruled that opm and its acting director, ezell, acted unlawfully in their memorandums and emails asking federal agencies to separate probationary employees that were and were not mission critical. that further led to their terminations. the government this morning made the argument that the firings were determined by the agencies themselves, and not directed by the opm. that is in line with the trump administration's priority to downsize the federal workforce. now, attorneys for the plaintiffs argued probationary employees were targeted for termination because they did not have the power to appeal. it is important to differentiate. probationary employees are not the only ones who are fresh out of college or new to careers. they include employees who have held their roles for decades, maybe some who were even promoted to another role because of positive performance. they, too, are included in the layoffs and in that characterization of probationary employees. one of the aintiffs in this case, the american federationn of gover

so, according to court documents, here's a timeline of what got us to today, january 20th, opm issued a memo asking the department heads of federal agencies to identify probationary employees within a few days. that brought us to february 13th, where a private conference call happened between opm and the heads of federal agencies. the partipants, or the context of that call are not directly on the record. the day after february 14th, an email from opm was sent out asking heads to separate employees not critical to their agencies by february 17th. and after that, those large scale terminations followed. the case was filed at the end of last month. the judge ordered a tro saying, quote, opm january 20th memo, the february 14th email and all other efforts to direct the termination of employees at various federal agencies are illegal, invalid and must be stopped and evidentiary hearing follows that tro. laura. it starts at 8 a.m. we wilbe there to send you or to bring you the very latest. we're live in san francisco, ginger conejero saab. today in the bay. a lot happening today. ginger, t

anybody except for people who work in opm.h questions for both sides. but in the end of the day, he said, these workers, probationary workers, these are workers who've been with the government for a short amount of time. they're the future of the government. they're the like the lifeblood, the growth of the government. opm can't order them fired. and the judge got a little firm about it with the government. and he's right. so now we're going to get the head of the office of personnel management and other witnesses. we're going to get discovery. we're going to get them in court in just two weeks. and we're going to establish wonderful lead counsel for the unions, conservation groups, veterans groups, and many, many more. we're going to establish, led by my colleagues at the altshuler berzon law firm. we are going to establish the illegality with live in court testimony mini trial. >> yeah. and so, norma, i'm glad you used the word discovery. and so for our kind of our legal eagles that have been created over the last few admini

opm, you know, lied, right?formance reasons. and, you know, the judge saw through that lie and ruled in our favor and found that opm, you know, not only exceeded its authority here, but but also sort of actually lied. >> yeah, that that point about performance. let's stay on that for a second, because one of the things i've seen in a lot of interviews with folks that were fired, and even ones that i've spoken to, is that they got this, this email or notice saying it's for your performance, but it was very clearly not there. like everyone knew, it wasn't their performance, it was just because they were in the probationary period and they had good performance reviews. like, why does that matter and why did they choose that particular lie? >> yes. and so the judge did get into this, right. so the when you're a probationary employee. right. there are there are a couple of reasons that you can be terminated. and one is one is for performance. and so they created this template letter and they just told the agencies yo

they the termination happened at the direction of opm. so probationary employees are defined as those who have served less than a year in the competitive service, or less than two in their expected service. at the end of arguments back in february, the judge ordered relief, saying opm, january 20th memo, the february 14th email, and all other efforts to direct the termination of employees at various federal agencies are illegal, invalid and must be stopped and rescinded. today's evidentiary hearing follows that tro, now without the department of ed, there's a lot of america, especially rural america, where kids aren't really going to have a chance to break out of poverty. well, this all coincides with some confusion and some concern over the trump administration's cuts to the department of education. that department, expecting a slash of about 50% of their workforce or half of their workforce. now, the federal education department protects students with disabilities and investigates discrimination cases and helps low income school distric

omb and opm to have a close working relationship. i am coming to learn about them as a senior advisor, not yet confirmed, but certainly i will take an active director vote and i think the issues you are speaking to are quite significant and of course i will be debye director into bloom and the policies that the policies of president trump and follow the direction of director vo ught. certainly look forward to communicate them with you about that and making sure the information you need is readily available. sen. ernst: a 2019 some of those agencies refused to provide opm with data. we you ensure all agencies are responsive to opm when it solicits information on taxpayer-funded union time? mr. bishop: it's very important congress received the oversight information it needs and there is a deliberative asset that i will work with, but certainly want subject to the advice and counsel on the director of omb to provide everything we can. they. sen. ernst: briefly, is there something we can do to make sure agencies are appropriately reviewi

she posted the business woman special as opm spokeswoman. she defended the memo at the time as a commitment to an efficient and accountable federal workforce. >> i would be very. >> curious if. >> she included. >> her efforts to promote her brand as part. >> of the five. >> things that she accomplished that week. >> donald sherman, the chief counsel for an ethics watchdog group, says more than anything, this behavior is insulting to the thousands of federal employees being fired. >> this trump administration appointee is violating. >> the public. >> trust at the same time as she seems to be instrumental in the administration's attack on civil servants. >> it does look like some of this happened on the clock. we were actually looking at her account this morning, and she posted a couple of instagram stories during normal work hours. you can also see the time on her watch in at least one of the videos she filmed. clearly during work hours. now, about 15 minutes after cnn reached out to her requesting comment, her instagram account was deleted.

she posted the business woman special as opm spokeswoman. defended the memo at the time as a commitment to an efficient and accountable federal workforce. >> i would be very curious if she included her efforts to promote her brand as part of the five things that she accomplished that week. >> donald sherman, the chief counsel for an ethics watchdog group, says more than anything, this behavior is insulting to the thousands of federal employees being fired. >> this trump administration appointee is violating the public trust at the same time as she seems to be. instrumental in the administration's attack on civil servants. >> and you just heard him there say she's a trump official. she has only been on the job since january with the new administration, and some of this does appear to have happened on the clock. we were actually looking at her account this morning, and she posted a couple of instagram stories. during normal business hours. you can also see the time on her watch, and at least one of the videos she filmed, all during work hours.

or opm, which manages federal employees. all of these videos were shot in her government office right here atname of efficiency. inside her office, pinafore captures video at her desk, putting on makeup, modeling new outfits to her 800 followers. pin over markets close on her account using what's called affiliate links. she could get a portion of any item sold through her instagram page, like this $475 skirt or $300 dress. but it's unclear whether she's made any money. on february 13th, the day 20 people on her communications team lost their jobs, she posted a moment for mixed patterns and the week when her agency demanded all federal employees list five things they did that week. she posted the business woman special as opm spokeswoman. she defended the memo at the time as a commitment to an efficient and accountable federal workforce. >> i would be. >> very curious if. >> she included her efforts. >> to. >> promote her. >> brand as part of the five things that she accomplished that week. >> donald sherman, the chief counse

. >> it's really the first time we have seen a court very clearly say that opm is acting outside of -e's no authority in the universe that gives opm the authority to direct agencies to fire employees. that determination is critical. amna: trump sees this as executive power. -- >> trump sees this as executive power. geoff: you have talked to people who lost their jobs. what have they told you? >> workers are feeling a lot of things. they see this as bringing down a system that has taken generations to build up of merit based experts across government who really just want to do their job and help america around the world. i talked to usaid workers yesterday as they were taking things out of the office, there was a lot of emotion. the scene i witnessed were people who served around the world, some of them very emotional, some of them angry. you saw a lot of hugs. others were more better fact -- matter-of-fact about this. i talked to this couple getting ready to get married. they both lost their jobs and say it's a loss for them and the country. >> a lot of people are going to respond to

i'm going to speak at that rally in front of opm lunchtime.t they're they have been because i just joined the union like not too long ago before i was fired. but they they are supportive. >> i just want to recognize your. bravery in the fact that you are already going through. >> what is a. >> personal period. >> of. >> chaos in the midst of a national period. >> of chaos? >> the fact that you. >> are. >> here, the fact that you are showing up. thank you for that. you, as you know, are not alone. there was a piece in nbc about. >> the fact. >> that federal. >> workers across the board are fighting back, some saying they feel they've been radicalized. well, there are conflicts between trump and civil servants in his first term. trump may now. >> be creating. >> the broad resistance within. >> the federal. >> government he thought was there all along. >> protests opposing the cuts and. >> supporting laid. >> off workers have. >> started popping up, but the real hotbed of organizing has been happening online, in signal chats, on facebook and in t

opm and omb will improve these plans. and as we know, opm is effectively doge.n, this speaks to the incredible influence of elon musk. and you asked about, you know, people getting their unemployment benefits, even people who have already been terminated from the federal government because this has happened in such a chaotic and fast paced way. many of them didn't even get to download the required documents that they would need to officially file. so it's the anxiety, the build up, the actual moment of being let go, and then not having the paperwork to get the benefits after they've lost their jobs. sarah. >> huge amounts of anxiety around the country with so many federal workers wondering if they're going to be next. rene marsh, thank you so much for all of your reporting on this. it's been really great. okay. >> so you can call this one. alarm bells are going off. the head of the world's largest asset manager, a company known around the world, says president trump's moves to reshape the federal government and sweeping tariff strategy are paralyzing american co

they have not been in sync with gsa and opm about the disposal of these properties. that is a problem. host: brac commission for the military side? is there such thing as a brac for federal? guest: that's what this legislation was for, to create this commission that was separate from the government. they were to identify properties that could be sold. they had to turn the list over to omb and gsa. they then had to agree and execute on the list. often, they did not agree. as a result, there were not that many properties disposed of. there is a last round growth -- going on right now. but this is a big problem. one thing that we have got them to do is to get out of a lot of costly leasing over time. they need to continue to improve that. the deferred maintenance on these buildings have grown extension will he. there's also security concerns, another reason they are on the high-risk list. if we did testing of trying to get through items through the security guards, and we were able to be successful, this is with batons and other sharp instruments. the security of the bu

but many of these emails were again from opm. what's going on here? should federal employees be worried? >> well, i mean, it's very clear that the trump administration does not believe in the rule of law. and the courts were very clear this week that opm does not have the authority to hire or fire, and to make these kind of demands from agency staff, but they are continuing to do this. and in fact, it's our understanding that many of the agency heads and cabinet secretaries were even unaware that elon musk was going to send the first couple of emails and tweets that he did last week asking for these bullet points. but we know the administration is breaking federal law every single day with these demands. they are breaking personnel laws. they are breaking separation of powers laws. they're breaking authorization and appropriations laws in congress. but the doj is part of the administration, and they are not holding them accountable. and so we're having to bring suits through the states and nonprofits to stop them, to get emergency injunctions against

on february 26, treasury provided the memorandum of agreement between opm and irs for an opm detailee to the irs. during the committee due diligence meetings, mr. faulkender stated that if he was confirmed, he would ensure the requested briefing would be provided to congress on the treasury payment systems, as well as be responsive to all questions put forward by members of congress, including this committee. as a reminder, i and other republicans sent several letters to the treasury and the irs during the biden administration with questions on numerous issues, including the organization of the economic cooperative and development, safeguarding taxpayer information, the american rescue plan, and reducing return inventory tax during the season, to name a few. many times i did not receive a response for months. mr. faulkender, i appreciate your commitment to respond to members of this committee, including as a part of this hearing. congratulations again on your nomination, and i look forward to working with you. i now recognize ranking member wyden for his opening remarks. sen. wyden: t

and actually, janelle, the judge was not very happy that the director of the opm was not here in court today, appear. so it was veryf him to interesting. some of the words that he had for the executive, the executive branch, trump's administration during today's hearing. sergio you spoke to members of the local federal employees union. what are they saying is going to happen next? well, they're very happy about the judge's order. they are now trying to get out some of the details abt what this all means to their members who were fired, but they do admit that it's likely going to be appealed. what the judge did do, janelle, is extend his temporary restraining order and also widened his his ruling to affect other employees as well. he's also ordered another hearing to be able to go through some of the details as to how exactly the trump administration came to this list of people that they ultimately decided to fire. so at the moment, there's a lot of details that are still not quite clear. and since this is just a few hours old, this order was just issued earlier today. the unions, a lot

6 agencies to rehire fired federal probationary workers after unlawful termination, saying that the opm firings were unlawful. so, it is a california judge that issued this ruling. we're waiting for it to be put into paper and then it'll go through the appeals, but it was a step forward and we're very pleased to share that. but we are here today to call out the cost of donald trump's chaos economy and offer an alternative vision for the path forward, forward for both the democratic party and our country. donald trump promised to lower costs on day one. yet, two months into his presidency, he continues to focus on everything but helping american families make ends meet and get ahead. thanks to trump's torrent of tariffs and the whiplash of his daily flip flops, we find ourselves locked in what the wall street journal calls, and i'm quoting, the dumbest trade war in history, end quote, while the american economy is now staring down the abyss of the recession. along with unelected billionaire and shadow president elon musk, donald trump is wreaking havoc across the federal government and o

to the employees at federal reserve last week it reads in part, you may have received an email from opmdoes not apply to federal reserve employees you should not consider it to be an offer for you for a buyout or separation from employment, in general, messages sent through this channel should not be understood as conveying thoroughtative information about your employment at the board, i am also hearing, that federal reserve chairman jay powell has yet to name a vice chairman of bank supinvitation, because he wants to soosh rolls himself now, the most likely contenders to take over for michael barr who was in charge of bank supvooigz last day last week most likely contender would be mickey bowman on the board a former state bank commissioner of kansas, not offered the job and we are wondering if chairman jay powell is going to keep status quo, and keep all the rules and regulations on the banks absorb this job himself, as chairman of the fed and also there is a committee in place, to oversee bank supervision but michael barr was the guy liz so far we do not have a replace continent does

secretary of state ordering state department employees to do as elon has suggested or work pm -- or opm all done at the direction of the president of the united states. of course it's perfectly legal. this is -- the personnel that are filing these lawsuits, they're not doing it because they did ten things last week. they kid it -- did it because they don't want anyone checking their work, and they've been working from home for the last four and a half years on their couch in their sweat pants watching "the view." jon: there are more than 20 lawsuits existence elon musk and his doge orders. do they stand a chance of succeeding? >> it's a constitutional absurdity to think that they will. the tros, these temporary restraining orders, these lawsuits are saying stop doing whatever you're doing, it involves either personnel or involves spending. , there's some humphreys exto haves, a 1935 -- executors that said there are just a few guardrails for the president to terminate individual, but there's a case more recently, 2020 the -- not 90 years ago -- that suggests the president has great autho

the committee staff raise last week a memo that was put out by opm and this memo directed agencies to dramatically reduce staff, then they reversed themselves, i'm not sure whether you've seen the latest guidance from opm this week, which dot -- backtracked that directive to fire employees and said sit said they clarified that the decisions to fire should be left individual agencies. i would like to just ask you, given this updated guidance, whether we have your assurance here today at this hearing, that you will not arbitrarily fire employees at fda given the new guidance. >> first of all, senator. good to see you and i enjoyed our conversation and i'm very proud to work at johns hopkins in the state of maryland. i'm a big believer in the professional career of staff at the fda, which is also located, by and large, most of the employees are in maryland. you have my promise that if confirmed, i will do my own independent assessment on personnel. i welcome input on efficiencies at the agencies. at the same time i want to make sure that the scientists and food inspectors and staff at th

cuts talking about this next because jay powell sent out email to staffers last week saying ignore the opmmail what you did last week, getting to it we are just getting started stay with us quick break then president trump lays out whirlwind issue accomplishments in second administration to joint session of congress pennsylvania congressman was there talking about it whether or not fed onboard with cuts coming up you are watching "mornings with maria" live on "fox business" stay with us. ♪ i lost my way, ♪ . . en reno... we meant that literally. sofi personal loans. low, fixed rates. borrow up to $100k. no fees required. the way i approach work post fatherhood, has really trying to understand the generation that we're building devices for. here in the comcast family, we're building an integrated in-home wifi solution for millions of families like my own. in the average household, there are dozens of connected devices. connectivity is a big part of my boys' lives. it brings people together in meaningful ways. (♪) (♪) what took you so long? i'm sorry, there was a long line at the thai place.

reports will be consolidated within the department to comply with the opm director.ople being told to reply. they must exclude classified or sensitive information. the social security administration might be next in line to see big layoffs. 10% of the workforce on the chopping block. in an interview on friday musk called the benefits program a ponzi scheme. mike johnson said people -- >> we have a moral responsibility to insure the programs are conducted in a way that does not allow for this massive fraud and abuse. he is finding that one social security numbers can be assigned to hundreds of people. every time there is a check distribution it goes to all the different addresses. there was no safeguard in the existing software to prevent it from happening. that's outrageous. >> the agency notified employees last week to prepare for significant workforce reductions. also saying if they don't want to go through the restructureing they can retire or resign. >> harris: all right, jackui, thank you very much for getting us started here with doug collins, veterans affairs

that's a way to get around some of those legal issue is that arose when it came from opm, musk and the house office. so they're definitely finding other ways too to try to figure out how to not have all these issues held up in court because we've seen there's a lot of legal issues here. molly: that's a great point about that confusion within the agencies in the wake of that initial e-mail and some of the pushback. we'll see, maybe a hole different response this week, we hall see. alex, thank you so much. really appreciate your time this beautiful saturday morning, thank you. >> thank you. you too. if. molly: all right. the budget battle ramping up with the government shutdown deadline fast approaching. can the house and senate come together on this one bill? republican congressman nancy mace is next. >>> and the measles outbreak is spreading to more states, and one death in texas. should americans start worrying? if lowe's knows when you own a home or run a business, the things you need add up. fast. when you're a member at lowe's, your earnings add up fast too, with a free mylowe's re

that is a goal that was put out -- president trump and opm look at reduction in force across governmentgoal, our target. that's what we are going to begin to look at. please, before democrats or anybody else start on this path. this is going to be a deliberative process that's going to take time. include career v.a. employees and senior beingsives. all across bringing in people if need be take a look are we being efficient? i can't get over the fact for 10 years the v.a. and specialisted on the gao high risk list but yet we have people in congress yelling don't do anything. well, let me just say what they are saying when they don't want to do anything. they are saying keep it the same. keep this on its high risk list. keep us in an area in which we are not making improvements in veterans care. all not going to stand for that make changes that help our veterans and put us in a position to better be efficient in what we have. >> brian: the cuts h have not bn made yet. >> no. >> brian: you think you could make it better leaning it out change maybe job descriptions and becoming more efficie

all of these videos were shot in her government office, right here at opm headquarters in washington,.c. inside her office, penover captures video at her desk. putting on makeup. modeling new outfits to her 800 followers. [ laughter ] [ applause ] >> jimmy: well, listen. you know what? you don't want to fire a bunch of people wearing the same outfit. it's rude. you have a different look for each person you let go. >> on february 13th, the day 20 people on her communications team lost their jobs, she posted "a moment for mixed patterns." [ laughter ] >> jimmy: yeah, let's have a moment for mixed patterns. mixed messages, too. the worst part of the story, she only has 800 followers. maybe elon can help wear with that. this is quite a person, this elon musk. musk sat with trump's obedient servant larry kudlow the other night on fox business where both men were absolutely bubbling over with charisma and charm. >> if we turn of off this gigantic money magnet for illegal aliens, then they will leave. and they will lose voters. uh-huh. [ laughter ] >> i don't want to end this interview, beca

statute in the history of the universe to hire and fire employees within another agency, forcing the opmd then issue a revised memo yesterday that one reads, quote. please note that by this memorandum, opm is not directing agencies to take any specific performance based actions regarding probationary employees. agencies have ultimate decision making authority over and responsibility for such personnel actions. that's where we start the hour. some of our favorite reporters and friends, the aforementioned jacob soboroff, is here. he's an nbc news political and national correspondent with me at the table. former republican congressman and msnbc political analyst david jolly is here. and democratic strategist and professor at columbia university, msnbc political analyst michael is here. jacob, this was this was so awesome. and i it's been a long time since i worked in government, but i was reminded of so many of these folks who and i've had people on that said, you know, the federal workforce is extraordinary, and they're used to every four years turning and sort of pivoting some of the miss

week, i was locked out of my computer and told, handed a blanket termination email that was sent from opming that i was being let go due to poor performance. it's a flat out lie. it is a disgusting lie at that. i received awards, certificates. i was treated like a criminal. like i had done something wrong. they are destroying people's lives to get to these numbers that you are requesting. if you do not realize that, i am trying to let you know now, this is your wake-up call. >> what do you say to that? the dismissive treatment that some v.a. staffers are describing related to their termination? >> well, one thing, this will be in a probationary employee who was let go. this is where this has been coming from the process. which is an understanding we are looking at the total picture. does an employee that was in a non- out of those 300,000 jobs not a front facing position that affects veterans health directly or veterans benefits directly poor look, this is something that we have, there is nothing i take more serious than having to look at our workforce and making, having layoffs. we feel

but just hours before the last deadline this past monday, opm released guidance saying that it was simply voluntary. now, we know of at least one agency that on saturday morning sent out an email to staff instructing them not to respond. the state department, in an email to their staff saturday morning, said that state department leadership will continue to respond on behalf of its workforce and employees until otherwise rescinded. the state department was one of several departments that instructed their employees not to respond to that initial email. but there is an agency that is shifting their tactics. the pentagon was one of those agencies, along with the state department, who told staff not to respond. but on friday, defense secretary pete hegseth sent a memo saying that all civilian employees will be required to respond to this email when they receive it. so there's a lot of different information, a lot of different instructions out there for various federal workers as they're trying to determine exactly how they should approach this, ask from the federal government. fred. >> all ri

judge william said this on friday no statute anywhere ever has granted opm the office of personnel managementrity to direct the termination and other agencies. he was on trait statutory scheme grants to each agency had the authority to manage their own affairs including the hiring and firing of employees. does that suggest at these agencies it did this on a more individual basis, at least within their silo, could it work? >> i think so. you've not cross the t's comment out of, there could be a bigger challenge her as a proactive trump administration litigation and get some of the civil service rules tying the president's hands. union contracts in the public sector might violate executive control over the executive branch. shannon: it went to get to number 2 an hour it was because tom, this is something you flagged. he did not get a lot of attention but the idea of the justice department now under attorney general bonnie has said a number of local fire and police departments that were being sued because they were using standardized tests, there's an art when they're having discriminatory resul

what are you going to use that information for, and do you see it as voluntary, like opm has said, orry? >> well, it's somewhat voluntary. but it's also, if you don't answer, i guess you get fired. what it really is -- what it is, is do people exist? [ laughter ] >> jimmy: okay. now i understand. it's somewhat voluntary, but if you don't respond, he guesses you get fired. thanks for clearing that up. i think it might be time to give the planet to the apes. because we're finished. [ applause ] these poor federal workers, i mean, really, can you imagine? these federal workers are as confused as elon musk's kids were when they realized their father named them after a phone number. [ laughter ] and maybe the craziest part of all of it is elon musk has no official authority to fire anyone. he's not an elected official. he wasn't appointed. he wasn't confirmed. who knew you could fire people at a place you don't even work? [ laughter ] i might try it a the chipotle some time just to see what happens. [ laughter ] and then, because there isn't enough dumb happening, we have the klan mom, mar

contrast that with what we heard from health and human services the first time this email came out from opm. and they said, the health and human services says that assume what you write will be read by foreign actors. how can homeland security say, oh, we're safe. it will stay in house. and hhs says somebody who wants to hurt us is going to read this. just write that accordingly. >> are you asking me to to to determine whether there's a consistent message coming out of doge? the answer is no. i mean, it is, you know, you can't you can't square it because it's so random off the cuff through tweets, emails sent on weekends for monday deadlines. i mean, none of it. none of it is how a stable government, uh, and its workforce ought to behave or be subject to. you know, i know people will get into the debate whether what doge is doing is, is, is going to make us more efficient and undermine it. i don't even think we get there yet. the question we have to ask ourselves is this the process that we want to streamline services, to get government employees, um, to to disclose what they are doing? and

the white house, the department of education, opm, ana, they haven't really presented any data to supportducation. >> department workers who still have jobs are now coming back today. >> what are we hearing. >> from them? >> fear, >> anxiety, apprehension about. >> what the future holds. >> and to. >> that point, we had an opportunity to talk to some. >> of them who are coming. >> back to work. they're so uneasy. >> about it, they didn't want. >> to show their faces. for concerns. >> about retribution. take a listen. >> a buyout. >> a rift. >> and a shutdown. >> i mean, that's what we got here. i've never seen that. >> this is like a hatchet, not a scalpel. none of this is going to help kids. like, none of this is going to help kids. none of this is going to put a single dollar in a child's school to help kids. it's just going to. i mean, and that's the point, i think, cause chaos. >> i don't know what's going. >> to happen next, and not even to me. but more so. >> i'm concerned about the children. >> of america and. >> all of the, you know, the. funds that are provided for. >> programs t

this had to do with a memo that opm, the office of personnel management, issued ordering the firingsees. and this judge has ruled that that was illegal. as you said, there are dozens of these cases around the country, each of them making slightly different arguments about this question of how government employees can be fired. in these cases. we're talking about probationary employees. regular old civil servants have recourse against being fired as well. but in a lot of cases, they have to go to this thing called the merit systems. protection board. so it's a longer process for them. but i think we the bottom line here, alex, is we have not heard the end of these firings. this is going to be in litigation for perhaps years. it's going to cost the government maybe billions of dollars to litigate these cases, and it's not going to be resolved anytime soon. >> you said. billions of dollars. >> that's absolutely. these are massive dozens and dozens of lawsuits across the country. doj lawyers. >> have to. >> go. into court, many people working behind the scenes. it's an expensive process.

opm has sent that initial email, which surprised and caught many federal workers off guard. and now there is a similar email that started to go out on friday night. we know of several agencies where employees started to receive this email. it includes places like the cdc, the veterans affairs department, as well as the department of education. and these workers are being asked to list in bullet point form five accomplishments that they had from the previous week and to copy in their managers. now, what's a little bit different about this email compared to the one sent last week, is that it does say that this will be required each week, and the responses will be due by 11:59 p.m. eastern on monday. but it does come as there's a lot of questions with these federal workers about whether they do need to respond. they haven't laid out what any repercussions might be if people do not respond to this email. and there's different agencies giving out different instructions. for instance, i'm told that the state department that employees there did receive this email last night, but th

for those who get letters from opm, opm only has the ability to fire their own employees, remember thatdo not fall victim to scare tactics that elon musk, someone who probably does not have a security clearance, that is truly vetted to do business in the united states, is making decisions and standing in the oval office in a t-shirt and hat, when they paraded zelenskyy for not wearing a suit. if you watch "snl," you saw something funny about that. i believe someone called in response to me and said i sound uppity or snarky, no, i'm just well-educated or informed. i am black and pay my own bills. i wish you all have a good day, but definitely stand in opposition to lies because it happens all the time. if we do not call it out when it does happen, it is a problem. donald trump is only interested in enriching his rich friends and russia. he has always been for russia and will be pro-putin all. the time if you wonder what he has to gain, by gutting the fbi and putting someone in that is anti-fbi as director and deputy director position, google that and see who he picks, who should have a j