ben oxley was shot point blank in the head.in bed right next to him was his wife unharmed. her daughter was 6 years old and completely unaware of what just happened, asked to see her father. >> i want to see my dad. i want to see my dad. i told her you can't. you can't go see your dad. >> reporter: it was a little after 3:00 a.m. when the detective got the call. do you remember getting that call? >> yeah. because i was sleeping. >> reporter: he woke up fast to a very big problem. a killing. just didn't make sense. >> appearing like a ghost has done this. no evidence, no weapon. everybody in the house says i don't know. >> reporter: a ghost? >> yeah. that's what it feels like because you have no idea. >> reporter: how was it possible melissa hadn't seen the person who shot ben? she'd been lying right next to him. why was she unharmed? >> that's kind of a testy little red flag popping up. okay, this doesn't seem right. >> reporter: and had craig, me many lista's teenage brother truly slept through the whole thing as he claimed? >

when melissa married father of one ben oxley. >> alissa will you promise to share in the love of thisill you please say "i will?" >> i will. >> reporter: a happy little family. and so what happened on the cold night a year and a half later was especially shocking. ben oxley asleep in his own bed was shot in the head, murdered while melissa lying right beside him was untouched, unharmed. >> red flags are popping up. you start thinking okay. this doesn't seem right. >> reporter: said the detective. as the mystery deepened melissa was a suspect, perhaps the suspect. >> it's the worst feeling thinking that you're blamed for your husband's death. >> reporter: as little alissa was drawn back to her birth mother and away from step mom melissa, ben's sister told her -- >> she thought my step mom killed my dad that night. >> reporter: and then a break. ben's ex-wife dawn told police her young boyfriend killed ben supposedly to please her. >> he woke me up and he said, it's done. >> reporter: in exchange for her story dawn got limited immunity. james was charged with murder. and then the bombsh

>> so, charles, i helped write a neat little bill called zarvane oxley.at bill we attempted to penetrate the greed. obviously, neither justice department has used zarban zarbane oxley to go get the bankers. can you use greed or what you have, or should it be a mix of up above. in the book, i go through a list of the crimes that were committed, the laws that were violated. you' you're. a man by the name of matthew lee who was a senior executive by lehman brothers wrote an extraordinary memo in may of 2008, which he hand delivered to senior executives which basically said, you guys are fudging our books. . do you know if anyone continued to certify their controls. you're absolutely right, that violations of the law were frag rant, all i can say is the power of wall veit money in american politics is now so great that it can not only roll back regulation, it can even prevent criminal -- this was the mafia, right? the mafia says and those rules apply in society. i, as of mafia -- a made man in the mafia may or may not comply with those rules. murder, theft, e

. >> at the same time, chris oxley is heading toward the intersection with his son in the car on theay to a baseball game. >> we saw a big fireball in front of us and then smoke rising from the fireball. we had a mushroom cloud on top of that probably went two to three stories up. the whole road was on fire. my son was terrified about it because he was asking me dad, do we have to go towards this? this is scaring me. >> but he hears steve shouting for help. so chris stops the car and jumps out, telling his son to stay in the car. >> somebody's life, you know, was probably in danger. >> i thought it was going to blow up so i was trying to get him out and get him as far away from the car as we could. >> the inside of the car was starting now to catch on fire, and we had trouble pulling the person out of the car. >> as they struggled, other good samaritans appear. >> somebody with an extinguisher, a fire extinguisher, came and sprayed a little bit on the inside. >> but the heat is intense. >> i could feel the heat all the way from here, and obviously, i'm across the street. >> and they

. >> this former ohio congressman mike oxley has never smoked. two years ago he was diagnosed with stage 3 long cancer. >> i had a tumor the size of a baseball. >> no symptoms, lot of assumptions. >> invariably, people would say i did not know you smoked. >> smoking is the number one cause, but more people who have never smoked are getting lung cancer including me. they found a tumor during a routine physical four months ago. shockingly little money is going to fight lung cancer. in 2011, federal funding for breast cancer was more than $26,000 per death. half of that for prostate, half again 4: cancer. look at lung cancer, the biggest killer of all, just getting $ 1442. >> a lot of people feel that the majority of patients have smoked and is a self-inflicted disease. >> and there is a lack of survivors. no pink army like with breast cancer to demand action. >> those who are diagnosed sadly, did not live very long, and thus we do not really have voices. >> a recent trial found that low dose ct scans cut the metrology rate among smokers by more tha

oxley repor >> teachers prepare for a strike against austerity in spain. throughout europe, this is a familiar scene now with a yet to be answered question -- how to keep schools up to standards and balance the books? >> the cuts are terrible. they not only affect the quality of education, everything is going to deteriorate. >> what should europeans do? the latest institution and to way into the debate is the 34- member oecd. the consequences -- >> the most significant single area of risk in the global economy has moved away from the edge. of the edge things and begun to deteriorate again recently. we cannot not rule out the development of a downside scenario which, if ignited, could lead to serious repercussions worldwide. >> further interest-rate cuts needed at the european central bank. confidence and restored it in banks and governments. and for that there needed to be changes in the way things were done. it is high time to go structural. structural reforms are not only the best short-term remedy left, but they also offer multiple dividends. >> but wit

made a little bit hotter because speaker boehner did say that, you know, we're going to have another oxley to apparently throw down on the critically critically again which -- debt ceiling again which got us into this in the first place. sequestration now an absolute certainty? and, rather, it appears like it's more certain. not only does it appear like it's more certain, some folks would look at this and say it's a good thing. >> no. there's no certainty here at all. i think you have to look at this in a broader context. we're stuck in this dynamic view of defense here and we think defense is what it's about. it's not about defense. it's about a budget deal. and the budget deal is going to have things after the election on the table that you won't believe, including the debt ceiling, including a continuing resolution, including the threat of sequestration. >> payroll taxes. >> the bush tax cuts. including payroll taxes, including the extension of unemployment benefits, the alternate minimum tax fix, the doctors' fix. there is going to be a huge number of issues on the agenda after the ele

melissa oxley, pleasure to meet you. >> thanks for having me on. >> our best to you.e want to mention that you can see more of melissa's story tonight on a special "dateline," while they were sleeping at 10:00, 9:00 central time here on nbc. and now let's get a check of the weather from al. >> "today's weather" is brought to you by kay jewelers. every kiss begins with kay. >> we've got a lot of heat to talk about down south. big area of high pressure. ridge of high pressure keeping the jet stream up and so we've got that pump of warm air coming in to the gulf. look at this, wichita falls high today 97. coming close to the record. probably break records in little rock, also in oklahoma city. memphis, and amarillo today with temperatures in the mid to upper 90s. rest of the country, those 90s situated there. 90s along the mid-atlantic coast. 50s in the pacific northwest. that'sic >> good morning. things are pretty quiet to start today. this afternoon, we could see some thunderstorms develop and some could be kind of strong. >> that's your latest weather. ann? >> all rig

even sarbanes/oxley put in place records. set the bar in terms of the market value too low. i totally understand and am sympathetic to the concerns about protecting investors. we also need to make sure we're not just focusing on keeping bad stuff from happening but also enabling good stuff to happen. i think that struck a reasonable balance and that's why i think it had the such broad bipartisan support. it's up to the regulators to put the rules in place and up to the industry to put the self-regulations in place. so it does maximize the benefit and minimize some of the risk. >> i was just going to say, if we take the discussion about immigration or this act where there was bipartisan agreement to do not everything, but something that was perhaps small but important, we can't seem to get the same agreement to move forward on immigration, let's just bring that principle back for a moment to tax policy, because i think we could actually get, even in this town, quite broad spread agreement that if you lowered the rates -- business rates, which are now the highest in the world

with these regulations now this chart starts from two thousand and two this is the year that sarbanes oxley was passed this was of course in response to the enron accounting scandal and then you can see how it's escalated and after the two thousand and eight financial crisis we have course had dodd frank regulations passed and those are the estimated costs in complying again this is just technology spending by wall street banks and fund managers asset managers in order to comply with these regulations for what so for a london whale multibillion dollar trading loss at the quote unquote best managed bank that doesn't seem like a lot of bang for your buck our next guest argues these and harold flood models keep blowing up because fundamentally nothing has been done to rein in moral hazard or assert personal accountability at these systemically dangerous financial institutions and combine that with free money from the fed and you can look forward to more whales london or otherwise no matter how much is spent on dodd frank or the volcker rule and in this twisted world of these big huge too big t

congress came up with sarbanes oxley. -- a result of enron. congress came up with sarbanes oxley. i thought wow, this is a rule and regulation that makes total sense. it turned out that on december 20th, there was $180,000 transaction and a multi trillion dollar mortgage derivative markets, and because of the law, everybody had to mark their assets down from $1 to $0.50. that was a huge price of butter of the collapse. cipitator of the collapse. [applause] >> since the 1930's, the federal government has provided subsidies and loan guarantees to farmers. as president, what would you do with regard to these programs? >> do away with the department agriculture first of all. [applause] we need to get farmers back to farming. the biggest program that the department of agriculture came in with this to pay people not to farm. i cannot understand how that helps farmers, frankly. do not do what you know how to do. do not do what you've learned how do. do not do what your parents have learned how do. we will pay you not to do it. at one time, that might have seemed pretty attractive to me.

that -- the reason why you have that -- that rule, that rule is the product of sarbanes-oxl sarbanes-oxley, the otherly ear frauds. it's the worst part of wall street doing business in the same old tired ways. >> right. >> that hurt investors, hurt consumers. my personal opinion is that reg f-d has been effective. >> right. >> has been an effective deterre deterrent. >> thank you very much. paul, interesting point for what he raises. reg f-d, not have an analyst say rosy wonderful things about an underwriting is a pig or other things if you remember what ten years ago. while they're trying to sell it. they're saying we don't like this thing, bankers are trying to sell it and now it's being called a conflict of interest. >> when ordinary people look at this, this was a company founded in the harvard dorm room. ten years ago. short period of time. >> yes. >> now they have 443 million subscribers worldwide, and does anybody really think that it's not a risky investment? i mean is there somebody out there who is buying it for $38 a share who isn't rolling the dice that maybe it's going to doub

we heard a lot about oxley and the wall between research and the willingness of banks to do ipos. >>who start companies are entrepreneurs. they are kind of off the radar. it's not government paperwork regulation. it's just anti-thetical to who they are. it's a good point, john. and also remember, 20 years ago, the old days, right, there were not markets for these people to get liquidity. >> brian, i was going to say, do you think facebook regrets going public? >> that's a great question. look, the real issue with facebook, let's get that behind us. look, guys, their value was sky high. that was the issue at least to us. they are really the only close comp was google. they were 25, 26 times sales. you know, i don't think facebook is going to drive the whole public market or the ipo market but it's awarding to everybody. if you go in on an ipo, if you're an i-banker, set them aside. facebook is sort of a symptom. they are not the cause. they really aren't. >> brian, john, herb, great discussion. thank you very much. >>> here is a truly sobering sign of the times. the median salary for

how about your favorite bill sarbanes-oxley. you remember enron, mci, rite-aid, lucent.here been since sarbanes-oxley? can you name two? can you name two? >> there are people who don't like -- >> they don't like it but we haven't had the scandal. >> we don't know what the counterfactual is on -- we're growing at 2% a year now. >> we never know the counterfactual. >> there are a lot of smaller companies that try to adhere to -- >> google could go public -- oh, it did go public. >> you don't think -- was that your point to me, i called him a demagogue? >> i'm responding to your characterization of me that we know what he's going to say. >> how did the carl levin is a demagogue -- >> i think the securities and, change act worked. >> do you think dodd-frank solid sao big to sale? >> roger, here's what i worry about. we have resolution authority and we say resolution authority or jamie and others say it solves the problem. my worry is even though we the law on the books, there's going to be so much pressure that it won't work that we bail them out anyway. >> that moment will

. >> republicans seem to believe, and oxley because romney is there, they believe there's some traction. we know perhaps with the base. but with independents, does this solyndra issue and some republicans say the bain issue, that it doesn't bring support for either of the men here who need that support? >> i think the swimming states will come down to the economy. i think it will be a broader conversation. it will be about jobs numbers. those are out tomorrow. it will be the overall discussion about where to take this economy and on that score, polls show that most people think obama still has the better idea. >> speaking of polls, we have a new nbc news marist poll out. it shows what we talked about all along in some key battleground states. it's a tight race. they're tied at 44% in iowa. president obama has a one-point lead in colorado, a two-point lead in nevada. we suspected it would be at this point as people again are not necessarily engaged but certainly in the days, weeks, months ahead we could possibly see all of this change. >> absolutely. i think it will be a tight race. i th

sarbanes-oxley tried to regulate that by requiring that outside members -- there are issues about executive compensation, and that's what comes to my mind. >> you talk in your book -- gets to a question about you in the book talk about preferring stock options, not bonuses as a method to make ceos better motivated with the company. but stock options have been part of the scandals, quest, home store.com, you name it. and yet you think stock options is better than bonuses. >> well, there's an argument. everything is complicated. there's an argument for stock options because if you give it a ceo a bonus for making a lot of profit this year, the ceo has an incentive to just milk the company for profits. the tip cocoa -- ceo is only going to be there for a few years. so you don't do any long-term planning, you sell things off and play tricks to make profits. that doesn't work as well if your compensation is based on the stock price, because then the investors see that and see through it. and the price falls. that's the idea. there again, it's still imperfect because the ceo can still play tricks

i was involved with trying to reduce regulations for early startup ipos so some of the sarbane oxleyraise capital? >> i'm certainly not an expert on sarbanes-oxley but having been an entrepreneur and having served on boards of startups i can tell you putting the same rules for small cap companies and large cap companies didn't work. i'm glad we fixed some of those rules. these kaechs we are working with here in the national science federation are years before they are having that problem. this program is trying to bridge the gap between scientists in the lab and private capital. it is not supposed to replace private capital and no intention of doing so but it is teaching entrepreneurs how to get ready to raise money from investors. >> i love this. i'm thinking about the way we sold the segment. you have heard the idea that we wouldn't have the internet without the government. we wouldn't have -- he has a list of things. >> energy innovations. >> you have made the distinction. the government could be really good at funding some of these ideas if they don't try to choose the winners or

didn't go college. >> at that point bernie marcus comes on because of sarbanes-oxley home depot couldn'tle of killing of economic freedom that achilles prosperity. >> the bigger issue is we believe moynihan ti elevating our people with ownership. we gave out options like crazy. the accounting rules today on options would not let us do that. >> you said earlier it's for those that want, they hear the way your vision, the way you think about things, why aren't you running for office. you say you would be a terrible politician. why not try to have some influence direct influence. >> i'm selfish. i think i have all the influence -- look let's be honest about one thing. this is generally speaking. when a guy tells you he's talking to this guy or that guy in public service don't kid yourself he writes the check. that gives you a lot of access. okay. particularly if you can raise a lot of money. i don't get caught up in my importance. i'm saying i realize what i take advantage of. i take advantage of. i look at a guy like andrew cuomo who i didn't raise a nickel for. the job he's doing in this

congress came up with sarbanes oxley. -- a result of enron. congress came up with sarbanes oxley. i thought wow, this is a rule and regulation that makes total sense. it turned out that on december 20th, there was $180,000 transaction and a multi trillion dollar mortgage derivative markets, and because of the law, everybody had to mark their assets down from $1 to $0.50. that was a huge price of butter of the collapse. -- precipitator of the collapse. [applause] >> since the 1930's, the federal government has provided subsidies and loan guarantees to farmers. as president, what would you do with regard to these programs? >> do away with the department agriculture first of all. [applause] we need to get farmers back to farming. the biggest program that the department of agriculture came to farm. i cannot understand how that helps farmers, frankly. do not do what you know how to do. do not do what you've learned how do. do not do what your parents have learned how do. we will pay you not to do it. at one time, that might have seemed pretty attractive to me. don't get paid to do noth

. >> congress did pass sarbanes-oxley.olutely, but also, let's remember wall street spent huge amounts of money to get the deregulation which brought us to the financial collapse, doing away with glass steagall. wall street has put huge amounts of money in campaign contributionings and lobbying, to do modest proposals in dodd frank. >> last time we spoke your endorsement of the president is lukewarm. how are you doing about that right now? >> i think you have in a candidate like romney, somebody who is george bush reincarnated. it's tax breaks for the rich and cut social security and medicare and medicaid, unfettered free trade. so if people liked the bush economic policy you'll like romney. i thought the bush economic policy was a disaster. i think obama is by far the preferable candidate. is obama doing everything i want, absolutely not, and among other things he has not been as strong as he should standing up to wall street. >> thanks for coming in. >> my pleasure. >> is bush a four-letter word for mitt romney? >> he wa

. >> sarbanes-oxley actually contributed to the fleeing, because they said the regulations arend i wille live in the global economic world, and we are deeply intertwined and why we talked about vote europe and facebook at the same time, because we are intertwined. >> and the g-8 leaders are meeting at a time of economic collapse and unprecedented global protest. there is a new politics that is not going to say, this is, this is. and this idea that regulations so complex, and you can find ways without all of the inputs that want to make it more complex to make it more simple and transparency and disclosure and you won't get rid of a multinational globe. >> well, there is a group called basil, and they do the global financial regulation as and the key regulation is leverage. how much can you borrow on top of the assets, and the one thing that is important about jpmorgan is that they will come out with that which will toughen them, and that is the single most important financial rule in the world, and what they decide on the leverage. >> and it seems that the politics around this is in par

you go back to glass-steagall and then you look at what happened with sarbanes oxley. you look what happened with dodd-frank. 2,300 pages, 400 rule makings, and they still haven't gotten around to giving the definitions that the industry says would provide some certainty. this is part of the problem that is there. the overregulation, the overreach of the federal government. and the lack of common sense. host: do you agree with them and think that the original act was -- guest: the original act is -- it's simpler. the industry understood it. and they knew where the rules were. host: loretta, democratic caller in hudson, florida, good morning. caller: good morning. thank you so much for c-span. host: thank you for calling. caller: this is my second call in about 10 years. i don't think that the regulations are being enforced for openers. there were whistle blowers before the banks collapsed and nobody paid any attention to them, the banks just went on and on with their multiple mortgage deals. and i think that's basically the reason that they collapsed. they were just st

if the government were a security, they couldn't get it done under sarbanes-oxley.aisle and let's get people in there who are really interested in solving the problems this country has. you heard earlier in the program if there's a bright spot in global economic performance, it's right here. >> what do you think? >> i agree with him. how could you not? >> coming up, the facebook ipo somewhat disappointing after luckluster demand and trading problems at the nasdaq. how are the shares going to fare on day two? we're going to break down the stock with an analyst. and the market's coming off their worst trading week in a year. can stocks rebound or lywill investors continue to sell in may and go away? it's gonna be a casual thing. ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] the tight-turning, space-saving, eco-friendly smart. escape your stuff. ♪ today is gonna be an important day for us. you ready? we wanna be our brother's keeper. what's number two we wanna do? bring it up to 90 decatherms. how bout ya, joe? let's go ahead and bring it online. attention on site, attention on site. now s

you saw that in louisiana, you saw that with oxley and enron, each time there was a challenge from you saw that with the financial crisis when they won the first $700 billion in spending in t.a.r.p. and $350 billion for the next administration to throw at it later, too, there was a real challenge. the bush administration sort of said don't raise taxes, but they didn't do part two, and that is where the tea party movement came in with a two by four and instructed the modern republican party has so far so good, don't raise taxes. the other part was the regulatory burden, which bush did not pull back. frankly, he was distracted by the mayor of baghdad for a number of years, and he did not focus on maintaining the limits on government spending. that said, everything who are dead, fdr did worse. i don't want to suggest that bush was as bad as spending as obama, but he was moving in the wrong direction. >> john, in your talk, you lay out a lot of the funds did not go to the state that were most affected by the economic crisis. is the problem with this stimulus funds were misallocated, or tha

senator jon corzine, a bungler for the current president, but also one of the co-authors of sarbanes-oxleyp with that from gary gensler, head of the cftc. it was on his watch that mf went down. he recused himself, and that really caused the glide path of this investigation, or this bankruptcy, shi say, to move more on a securities avenue than a futures avenue. we're also talking about regulatory capture because mr. gensler, according to bart ch l chilton, found mr. corzine a very tough foe when it came to changing rules. so they bent a lot of rules. rule 125, they were allowed to invest in europe. these are some of the allegations. do you have any more you want to add or comment op the ones i'm throwing out there? >> i think you hit on something that's extremely important. rule 1.25, july 20th, is when mr. corzine had a conversation, or a conference call, not only with the chairman gensler, but also then later with commissioner chilton, and that's the same day the cftc decided to pull those rules and put them on ice. but yet after the collapse, within five weeks of the collapse of mf globa

you saw that in louisiana, you saw that with oxley and enron, each time there was a challenge from you saw that with the financial crisis when they won the first $700 billion in spending in t.a.r.p. and $350 billion for the next administration to throw at it later, too, there was a real challenge. the bush administration sort of said don't raise taxes, but they didn't do part two, and that is where the tea party movement came in with a two by four and instructed the modern republican party has so far so good, don't raise taxes. the other part was the regulatory burden, which bush did not pull back. frankly, he was distracted by the mayor of baghdad for a number of years, and he did not focus on maintaining the limits on government spending. that said, everything who are dead, fdr did worse. i don't want to suggest that bush was as bad as spending as obama, but he was moving in the wrong direction. >> john, in your talk, you lay out a lot of the funds did not go to the state that were most affected by the economic crisis. is the problem with this stimulus funds were misallocated, or tha

there is the sarbanes oxley. the sec is beginning to be reactive in that space.here are a lot of assumptions in your scenario that need to be proven. what did the co know? is it so clear these transactions as structured are bad exactly? that takes a lot of knowledge and expertise to know that. and a lot of chutzpa to create that. the deferred prosecution agreement, essentially, that firm had to go out of the tax shelter. there are available remedies. we have to be very careful about thinking we know enough as prosecutors to decree them. >> i want to be clear, i do not want to suggest for a moment that we will not -- and we will aggressively pursue cases criminally, but as a white- collar defense lawyer for 10 years and now as an assistant attorney general, i do not think we should discounts the investigation of cases, even if we do not bring them, if the ceo of an institution feels that he or she is subject to criminal liability when we interviewed them or we put them in the grand jury, or will they have lawyers and this is hanging over their heads for years and

you saw that in louisiana, you saw that with oxley and enron, each time there was a challenge from you saw that with the financial crisis when they won the first $700 billion in spending in t.a.r.p. and $350 billion for the next administration to throw at it later, too, there was a real challenge. the bush administration sort of said don't raise taxes, but they didn't do part two, and that is where the tea party movement came in with a two by four and instructed the modern republican party has so far so good, don't raise taxes. the other part was the regulatory burden, which bush did not pull back. frankly, he was distracted by the mayor of baghdad for a number of years, and he did not focus on maintaining the limits on government spending. that said, everything who are dead, fdr did worse. i don't want to suggest that bush was as bad as spending as obama, but he was moving in the wrong direction. >> john, in your talk, you lay out a lot of the funds did not go to the state that were most affected by the economic crisis. is the problem with this stimulus funds were misallocated, or tha

. >> i do think it is difficult under sarbanes oxley and a lot of stuff today. you have to be careful about lawyers running a company. you want to listen and take counsel and you -- many times i have to say, i understand that, but the lawyers are not running the company. you can lawyer up everything so there is no -- you can live in a bubble if you want to. you probably will not get a disease. you could run a play in the dirt, too, and probably not get a disease because you get a new to it. you pick your poison, and we choose to play in the mud. >> it is a little hard to know when to end. let me end on one note. there are a lot of students here in the audience that are taking and all you have to say and all the implications for them would be lawyers, technologists, entrerepnerus. what advice would you give the students in the audience on how to get a satisfying and rewarding career and the type of revenue have had a spectacular -- what would you tell your younger self and what would you tell this group what to do going forward? >> i would say, do not take a lot

i think under sarbanes-oxley and other stuff today, you have to be careful with lawyers who run the company, and you want to listen to counsel, but many times i have to say, well, understand that, but lawyers are not running the company, and so you have to -- you can lawyer up everything so that there's no -- you can live in a bubble if you want to; right? you're probably not going to get a disease. you can play in the mud and dirt and not get a disease either because you get immune to it. [laughter] pick your poisen. we choose to play in the mud. >> so it's sort of hard to know where to end this cyber conversation, but let me end on one note that again is is a true north. there's a lot of students here in the audience taking in all you got to say and all the implications today would be lawyers, technologists, and entrepreneurs. what advice do you give to students on how to have a satisfying and rewarding career in really -- the run ewe had is spectacular, but what would you tell your younger self and this group of students going forward? >> first off, don't take a lot of advice. [laughter]