in the suburbs of las vegas media has gathered her pacifist militants to prepare a new operation and taunt weapons manufacturers. that's what this administration has said that capturing people is messy you don't know where the put them you don't know what kind of child to give them what do you do if they're innocent killing them easy if they're innocent well too bad too late. the wounds of nine eleven can never be healed. hunt and kill bin laden was a. huge success for the obama administration. but the president never managed to close guantanamo prison. the closing of guantanamo the first major pledge from the man who received the nobel peace prize a couple of weeks after entering the white house. even with all the efforts of his team obama never managed to obtain a trial for the prisoners so that they can be found guilty or innocent and sentenced or sent home. they remain locked up in the judicial limbo of the american enclave in cuba. it's fascinating to me when i first broke the door seared throughout the doors in america against one time a we were told by the right wing you know

it is avoiding violence at all costs. >> norman was not a pacifist his whole life. i don't think you have to make an either or or statement. what is force if not imposing your will on another person? >> there is defense. >> there is defense, too. >> that whole world war ii thing, you know. >> there is the whole world war ii thing. i also think that, yeah, he was a lone soul. he was involved in a number of nuclear disarmaments and a number of causes that i spoke to speak to both sides of the issue. >> he became -- his pacifism was suspended after pearl harbor? >> yeah, it was a moot point at that point. he had seen too much of some kind of ugly leaders fascism in this country. he worried that in light of the great depression, that one, this country would lead to fascism here. we kind of hear that in can't believe it is the greatest generation. they would never -- fashion nism wouldfascismwould never occur here. >> the one story i grew up knowing about norman thomas involves a conversation with franklin roosevelt. do you want to tell the story? >> sure. [laughter] >>

know, it was -- this is what the response of some pacifists would say. ou can't wait, you can't let this go on. that was his response to what south.pening in the you know? ultimately, you know, things did change. and it did take a lot of time. but you could say like, maybe in the 1930s with the political climate, social climate, wouldn't allow for roosevelt to come in and the national guard and change things. you know, maybe you had to wait 30 years. but a lot of bad things happen in the south in 30 years, you know, kind of racial violence. >> what are the things that fdr's own self-conscious was awakened when eleanor brought him to this part of new york. insofar as he was able to roject those values domestically, how do you -- on the you come out issue of the limits of politics but the demands of justice? because no one would argue now failures of of the reconstruction, because of the crow, because jim of the robert barrons in the orth, in the economic oppression, that many, many social reforms should have happened earlier. many, many social reforms tha

he had, he was -- pacifist. he was a good german protestant marshal war theology just all throughout his system. but by 1932, 1933, he was a committed pacifist. this is one of his reasons for having an interest in gandhi. he, bonhoeffer made speeches in ecumenical conferences on christ and peace that amounted to saying that if you want to know who jesus is, you read the sermon on the mount, and you do exactly what the sermon on the mount teaches. that the sermon on the mount is not metaphorically true, it's not annal gory, it's not a key --al gory, it's not a key, it's a literal mix of the gospel of christ -- application of the gospel of christ for the social and political order to. but by 1939 his principled pacifism had given way to the realization that an ethic of responsibility that was very similar -- he didn't describe it this way in his writings, but very similar to the whole notion of christian realism -- made it, obligated him to do anything necessary to kill the antichrist, the madman, hitler. and this

that basically said it is very easy to be a pacifist when someone is not waving a gun in your face.we would come back and we would fight. >> that is very interesting and it is hard not to read the experience of the second world war into that. i think that we should take carrington on his own terms but you can't help but think that when he writes that in 1939, in 1929, he does volunteer and serve in the second world war. >> there is this quote on page 206, it is interesting that 1919 , the end of the war it was the moment of disenchantment. that the war itself wasn't and it goes back to the idea of, you won't be a pacifist if someone is running -- waving a gun in your face. everyone was like, we totally need to fight this war and it was after the war ended that this was a quiet change overall, postwar, people were like, does that mean we did not fight for anything because there was not a dramatic shift and people started to question why they went to war when, in fact during the war, they were completely for it. >> we see something similar with hemingway's homecoming. we see that the

bohnhoffer had not been a pacifist. he had german protestant marshall war theology throughout his system, and by 1932, 1933, he was a committed pacifist. one of his reasons for having an interest in gandhi. he -- bohnhoffer made speeches in he can cue many cal conferences on christ and peace that amounted to saying that if you want to know who jesus is, you read the sermon on the mount and do exactly what the sermon on the mount teaches. that the sermon on the mount is not metaphorically true. it's not an al gory. it's not key. it's not inspiration, it's a literal application of the gospel of christ for the social and political order. but, by 1939, his principles pacifism had given way to the realization that an ethic of responsibility -- it was very similar. didn't describe it this way in his writings but very similar to the whole notion of christian realism. made it -- obligated him to do anything necessary to kill the antichrist, the madman, hitler. and this might be a -- there was no doubt about it, that bohnhoffer

i have been an active pacifist most of my life with human rights activist where i consider myself a pacifist and. >> host: we have not discussed this but you have a real partnership with your wife. throat the campaign and your time in office. but you describe as a true partnership and initiatives were done in close collaboration. >> every step of the way. and before i make any decisions one way and then to go under the spiritual leader. [laughter] >> this is part of the big national decisionmaking. >> guest: i have been active all my life. and i have protested against wrongful incarceration that oppose the death penalty. so after i became mayor i thought should i put all of this aside now that i am mayor or use the opportunity to give more leverage. so that is something when you become mayor. when the ambassadors will meet with you. so when i met with ambassadors from countries that had capital punishment i did so with the possibility of the u.s.. and then there was this delegation from china that came up for a visit to city hall from the communist party. i used the opportunity with that inc

pacifists stretching back generations but with a philosophy that still persists. >> it was an important thing that was done. and i owe peep ahead of me started. >> reporter: the men who refused to fight, the quaker community which helped to persuade tribunals of their case. this village was a thriving mill town but the crushin war was shot supported here. this part of england had been a place of protest, protest against the excesses of lack of workers rights. and so by the time 1914 arrived it was already a sizable body of opinion here prepared to make a direct equation between the excesses of capitalism at home and the reasons for war. this nearby village looks as peaceful as can be. but in 1907 the streets look like this. hundreds of socialists railing against british imperialism. men were sacrificed by the million in a capitalistic war for trade. for that he ended up doing hard labor. >> the argument was that he was imperialist, an. >> this historian has compiled the most complete database of all the men who refused to fight as co conscript. not only is it thousands more than previou

and i get a an increasing sense of pacifistic sensibility amongst the public. and there was a parliamentary vote that stock u.k. action in syria. this sort of pressure is having results in some senses. >> time is up. thank you very much, indeed. ♪ >> you are with france wing for. let's check the business headlines. european airline shares took a beating on tuesday. british airways closing attorney -- in negative territory. russia's prime minister has also been quoted saying that retaliatory measures should be discussed. it follows eu sanctions on a russian low-cost carrier. our correspondent slain. >> a tit-for-tat in russian aviation industry. russ -- moscow is considering retaliation sanctions for limiting airline use in the country. european carriers frequently use the country's airspace when flying to asian destinations. and according to russia's federal air transport agency, it allows them to cut each journey by up to 4000 kilometers and save up to $30,000 in fuel and fees per flight. however, such a reaction is likely to have an impact on the state airlin

stab in the back myth that the german army was let down by socialists and bolsheviks at home and pacifistsat home. the article 231 in the treaty of versailles is particularly important. not only was germany being labeled but morally responsible for the war. so the victorious powers were able to impart all this guilt on to germany. i think it's worth bearing in mind that there are almost two decades between the end of the first world war and the beginning of the second world war. and a lot happens in that time. it's dangerous if we approach the topic or we try to connect the two wars in this linear way that we ignore some very genuine and worthwhile attempts at peacekeeping and in particular i'm referring to attempts from the treaties in the mid 1920's, 1925, and to bring together antagonistic france and germany to a point where they were speaking and bringing in programs. the league of nations much aligned, not particularly effective but laid the foundation for the united nations. >> harry truman was an artillery officer in the first world war. charles de gaulle was badly wounded twice on

and i think later on in life he became a pacifist, a vehement pacifist.that was the time in which gandhi was inspired by his writing. when he was writing "war and peace," he wasq a realist, and e understood that war is a part of life. we all have egos. we all are selfish, we're all animals. we also have a spiritual dimension, and these two are in constant conflict. and so "war and peace" is a drama of those two different dimensions of human reality, and i don't think tolstoy picks one other the oh. i think what makes the book so powerful is his realization that this is all who we are and what history is. it is about conflicts, yes, but there are also those moments like the ones i've described in my talk. >> when he was writing the book, did he, was he aware of the american civil war? did american civil juarez nate at that time? >> a fascinating question. he was certainly aware of it, and he was very well read. heft reading all of the newspapers -- he was reading all of the newspapers. but i don't, i don't think -- and i know he wrote some things about it

the people you know you have this very peacemaking almost pacifist or around your buddhist and you have both in your acting career i guess in your work as a police officer you know how to do to deal with lots of guns and you do seem to have a liking of sophisticated weaponry you know here in russia. sniper rifle that will bear as far as i understand your own name what attracts here and dance is the engineering is a sense of power something else maybe i mean i believe in you know the sport lympics the shooting of the pigs long when shooting. all these things but i also believe that every country has the right to defend their own country every man has the right to defend his own wife and children in the home and i also believe that right should triumph over evil and so i don't have anything against guns because guns in of them themselves don't kill people people kill people so gun is just like a plant or a tool you know and you can you can to do good with it which is to protect and nurture humanity in mankind or destroy and i'm here to nurture and protect people now i think your own count

the project states that a lot of violent rhetoric is insufficient to classify an organization as pacifists this is fascinating so if no violence does not equate to pacifism how are they determined potential threats well this is really what's disturbing for any perspective is if you're going to fund a program which is about identifying threats you know you need to be very specific in what are those threats but the problem is is that consistently the minerva guy is talking about people as high as the administrator who gave me a statement about it all the way through to the actual research of the universities who were doing the research none of them could substantiate why they had these blood definitions and boundaries one of the poor taste i looked. you know as being one of the naval postgraduate school and it's you know blurs the boundaries between so-called peaceful nonviolent activists and what is described as supporters of political violence and then so you know peaceful activist because they support radical cause is seen as a potential support for political violence and then that opens

even though we're not a group of pacifists and we definitely recognize israel's obligation to protect its citizens i'm one of those citizens and i deserve my protection we have to ask what are the what is the moral price we're asking or that we're actually doing or paying to be more accurate. and this. second thing is the context we were in two thousand and fourteen two thousand and twelve it wasn't like there was an operation pillar of defense two thousand a two thousand and nine defensive shield i can go back we've been doing this over and over and over again it's about time and this is what we tried to do tonight call out our government and bars society was for it's about time to think of a different route in trying to. end this horrible and illegal shooting of missiles on civilians in israel only by force but we know from our service that using force only brings in only fosters the next generation of hatred. and this is something we know too well from our experiences but sadly the red line that i felt i was crossing as an individual soldier we're now crossing them as a society and

>> i have been inactive pacifist and human rights activist, i a consider myself to be a feminist, . >> host: this is something that you have a real partnership with your wife throat the campaign and your time in office and she was not as public as you are you describe it does the true partnership and those initiatives were done in cooperation with her. >> and every step of the way. she is as much a part of this as i am. and to the floor and make any decisions i would counsel with her. in to end to go under the name the spiritual leader. [laughter] >> host: this is part of the big national decisionmaking? >> yes. i have been active all my life and i have protested against wrongful incarceration so after i became mayor, i thought should i put this aside now? or should i use the opportunity while i am the mayor to give it even more leverage? i decided to do that. when i started as mayor, that is something that happens when you become the mayor, the ambassadors will meet with you. so when i met with the ambassadors from the country's that have capital punishment i had a very polite letter

pacifists stretching back generations but the philosophy still exists. >> it was around important thing to be done and i'm pleased to be a quaker following in that tradition. >> the men who refused to fight the quaker community are just a part of what is now emerging as a much larger opposition than previously has been recognized. driving mill town in the town of the 20th century. the crushing poverty here politicized many people. the story persists that the war was universally supported. it wasn't here. from the start of the industrial revolution this part of england had been a place of protest, so by the time 1914 arrived, it was already a sizable body of opinion here prepared to make a direct equation between the excesses of capitalism at home and the reasons for war. this nearby village looks as peaceful as can be, but in 1907 streets look liked like this. hundreds of loyalists. they felt that men were being sacrificed by the millions for trade. for that he ended up doing hard labor. >> he was tan imperialist war. >> reporter: this historian has compiled the most complete database o

sassoon was himself part, hardy was a pacifist, he was approached by the government to write verse whichld encourage patriotic ver for. >> what the audience were pitching towards was the audience of neutral countries and one particular neutral country, america. so hardy writes a poem called an appeal to america on behalf of the belgian destitute. it is not his best poem as can you imagine from the title. >> but sent a message to the government. >> absolutely. >> some who refused to fight inn the war but put their thoughts paper. the voice to millions of men who lost their lives without being able to speak for themselves. lawrence lee, al jazeera in sojournesouthern england. >> that's it for us. stay with us, going to have more of today's news in just a few minutes. sen >> we made border security a top priority. >> it's not really immigration. it's an invasion. >> they're a constructive part of our society. >> here, taking our resources,

as for campus pacifists, your thesis on gender pronouns won't save your ass now. anyone who loves your freedom but hates our military watch that video. anybody who thinks that hugs work, watch that video. the volunteers, they asked for this duty and they will get it. they will show the world why evil is no match for good. >> is it time to pick up the pace militarily speaking? >> i mean there is no time and no comfort for us to be able to be war weary. i'm sorry, that's the way it's going to be to have be. there can't be the timetable, there can't be the oh, this is when we're going to pull out, tells them, that is not how we're going to make america safe, and if we don't step and do the job, who will? >> is it your theory that isis could unite people who normally would not be in the same room? >> absolutely. if you're an islam cleric or an imom and you're looking at this and these savages are doing this in the name of islam, you're saying this is going to be a bad deal for us when wire rekruting next year. you don't necessarily get to be the varsity because you're

one, that i am an absolute pacifist in my heart. so the contradiction here is that you have a president in time of war, 12 years of war, who says he is a self-proclaimed, absolute pacifist. and the second reason he said is that i didn't believe in this war. that was not a war, this was a conspiracy. so it was fascinating to me, and i asked him whether you see it as a conspiracy or as a war, your soldiers die every day, and as a commander in chief you're expected to at least show appreciation. he said, i do. he pounded, you know, the table. he said, i do. that's western propaganda which is funny to me because i was a local sitting there asking him that question. it wasn't a western journalist. so his views on the war were fascinating to me. the final issue that i would like to, you know, close with is that the perception of hamid karzai is that he's a tremendous political tactician in terms of building consensus, in terms of if you go back to 2002, the way he came to power, he did not have a militia. he did not have a massive politic

pacifists will shout, think of all the terrorists you're bombs will create.ir pacifism is proportional to their distance from risk. and historically killing bad guys doesn't make more bad guys. killing saddam hussein or bin laden created no new terrorist despite the prediction. i don't recall any terror movements beginning in japan after august 9th, 1945. america's ability to end conflict is the only thing the world's got left. it's the only prayer that christians, jews, buddhists, and atheists have in living to see tomorrow. islamic extremism exists only to spread. and you never negotiate with a stalker. our response can only come from above in the shape of a 500-pound rsvp. for america is truly the bomb. >> fresh stuff. >> that is. >> it's like you never heard it before, huh? all right. i did it earlier in the day -- >> better the second time. >> people, it's called a -- what do you call it? it's called a classic. that was a classic. >> instant classic. >> a two-hour classic. >> a "mir cole -- a "miracle on 34th street" is clask. >> -- a classic. >> as you

didn't get it but the representative from the federal, from the fellowship of reconciliation, a pacifist organizations that was helping martin luther king said king's else is an arsenal, don't you understand non-violence? alive in this gathering here, and the guy who plotted martin luther king to a full understanding, non-violence as a way of life. taking note of the fact, when he was alive, young people is what he did. so this easiest way to understand this is all you have to do, you don't have to think of this in sharp political terms. what you have to understand is black people are human beings and they are going to react to terrorism or violence directed at friends, family, community, the way anybody reacts, do the best they can to protect them and in greenewood or holmes county over here, or all these other counties in mississippi, grabbing a rifle or a shotgun, protecting one's home or family or friends or community and you have to understand this. from durham, a person in arkansas and other places, i quote him in the book, you can pray with him or you can pray at him. if you are d

this is a different matter from japan's unilateral decision to break out of its pacifist principles andto expand by participating in an armed clash. i look at the japanese opinion polls and i see that the majority of the japanese are concerned about this self-defense and they are concerned it should -- if japan could be entangled in an armed conflict against the will of the people, because that is the principle of the constitution. and also the needs political parties, like the one that was critical of the self-defense idea, there are domestic constraints on this pursuit of self-defense. other governments would say no, this is a proactive contribution to peace. in my view, it is a problematic contribution to peace. if japan pushes this idea without prior consultation with other countries coming including korea, obviously people in korea suspect this is a new attempt for japan to militarize itself. the united states, therefore, as an ally with japan should make sure this pursuit of collected self-defense should be a limited concept which operates within the parameters of the u.s.-japan a

somewhat of a pacifist by nature. he actually celebrates with some of the u.s.attempts to invade canada fail. he writes to his friend john read off the virginia -- that while virginia, this may be treason, i embrace the name traitor. that just goes to show the depth of emotion against this war. alone in excess and sentiments like that. differently when his home, when maryland and washington were being attacked. volunteered for the militia, and served in the georgetown artillery during some of cockburn's raids. at bladensburg, he is actually out there as a civilian volunteer to the district militia. he doesn't really help things out particularly, but after the fight, he comes back to his home. and from his home here in georgetown, he witnesses the burning of washington. he is in something of a state of shock. he had sent his family, which included six children by then, awayis wife -- in way -- to the family home in maryland. he is nonetheless quite fearful that georgetown will be attacked. if you days later, it is from this home that he would a few days later, it

fromis a different matter japan's unilateral decision to its pacifist principles and to expand by participatingin an armed clash. i look at the japanese opinion polls and i see that the majority of the japanese are concerned about this self-defense and they are concerned it should -- if japan could be entangled in an armed conflict against the will of the people, because that is the principle of the constitution. and also the needs political parties, like the one that was critical of the self-defense idea, there are domestic constraints on this pursuit of self-defense. other governments would say no, this is a proactive contribution to peace. in my view, it is a problematic contribution to peace. ideapan pushes this without prior consultation with other countries coming including korea, obviously people in korea suspect this is a new attempt for japan to militarize itself. the united states, therefore, as an ally with japan should make sure this pursuit of collected littlefense should be a -- limited concept which operates within the parameters of the u.s.-japan alliance and should not impair p

for example, we would not expect a quaker who is religiously pacifistic to support a war no matter the conditions. this means that new information is unlikely to have an impact on the folks with fundamental reasons. given all of this, we expect several things when we turn to public opinion about war and foreign policy. just to keep on the topic of iraq, the first thing we would expect is to see a patchwork will of good reasons for and against the war thanks to the interplay of peoples predispositions and context of information, all of which has been mentioned already. peopletom line is that can support something, but for a very wide range of reasons. unlike the discussions so far, where we focused on wmds and terrorism. my wife and i, we both bought a minivan, but we did it for very different reasons. she wanted cupholders and i wanted to make her happy. [laughter] two very different reasons. just like minivans, there was a very wide range of doing this. looking at the poll questions, people had a chance to come up with their own reasons, open-ended whole questions. in an abc news poll

he says i am a pacifist in my heart. we should have fought -- my effort was to repel the conspiracy in which afghan blood was shed. so, my purposes were different from nato. guest: i'm not sure what president karzai's game is at this point. he would not be where he was if we had not had a conference at the end of 2001, after the taliban was toppled. the international community imported the new government. unfortunately, tensions between the u.s. and karzai have escalated in the last few years. it is partly him trying to maintain his popularity in afghanistan. sometimes they are opposing the u.s. that can be a popular position with his constituents. i also think that part of it is he has been in power so long that he is not getting good advice. he is not thinking straight. as i explained earlier, you have afghans asking him to sign the bilateral security agreement with the u.s. he simply would not do it. it is anyone's guess what his game is. a lot of people think he is just interested in maintaining power. i think that i

socialist, feminist, lesbian, pacifist, addams established hull house, and went to start the first juvenilecourt in the world, which freed people from prisons and poorhouses, the first public kindergarten in america, the end to child labor, and a thousand other projects. she argued that building communities of care and compassion required more than doing good. more than volunteerism. more than the ultimately controlling stance of a lady bountiful. it required a radical oneness with others in distress. and identity of purpose with the wretched of the earth. when she opened her settlement house with her sister activists and lived there with an open, unlocked door, in the heart of a poor, immigrant neighborhood, with families in crisis and need, she pushed herself to see the world through their eyes, and fighting for their humanity, achieved her own humanity as well. j edgar hoover, the g-man wizard opportunismkills of outstripped any crime-fighting abilities. he had called jane addams the most dangerous woman in america shortly before she became the first american woman to win the nobel peace

socialist, feminist, lesbian, pacifist, addams established hull house, and went to start the first juvenilecourt in the world, which freed people from prisons and poorhouses, the first public kindergarten in america, the end to child labor, and a thousand other projects. she argued that building communities of care and compassion required more than doing good. more than volunteerism. more than the ultimately controlling stance of a lady bountiful. it required a radical oneness with others in distress. and identity of purpose with the wretched of the earth. when she opened her settlement house with her sister activists and lived there with an open, unlocked door, in the heart of a poor, immigrant neighborhood, with families in crisis and need, she pushed herself to see the world through their eyes, and fighting for their humanity, achieved her own humanity as well. j edgar hoover, the g-man wizard opportunismkills of outstripped any crime-fighting abilities. he had called jane addams the most dangerous woman in america shortly before she became the first american woman to win the nobel peace

he says i am a pacifist in my heart.hould have fought -- my effort was to repel the conspiracy in which afghan blood was shed. so, my purposes were different from nato. guest: i'm not sure what president karzai's game is at this point. he would not be where he was if we had not had a conference at the end of 2001, after the taliban was toppled. the international community imported the new government. unfortunately, tensions between the u.s. and karzai have escalated in the last few years. tois partly him trying maintain his popularity in afghanistan. sometimes they are opposing the u.s.. that can be a popular position with his constituents. i also think that part of it is longs been in power so that he is not getting good advice. he is not thinking straight. earlier, you have to sign theng him bilateral security agreement with the u.s.. he simply would not do it. it is anyone's guess what his game is. a lot of people think he is just interested in maintaining power. i think that is important for this country. we need to